UAP Hearings in House and UAP provisions in the Senate's most recent defense bills

[insertwackynamehere]

I'll just get straight to the topic, the last few years there have been more and more disclosures about "Unidentified Anomalous Phenomena" or "Unidentified Aerial Phenomena" (formerly referred to as UFOs but I guess rebranded due to the euphemism treadmill and the negative associations with the term UFO).

 

These disclosures have been usually military pilots or aviators and no one ever officially claims anything more than the matter of fact "these are things trustworthy people have seen that we so far cannot explain or identify".

 

Recently, a former intelligence official David Grusch came out as a whistleblower. He just spoke to a US House of Representatives bipartisan subcommittee about what he believes is criminal fraud from private corporations who get government contracts as well as large scale coverups regarding "non-human intelligence" and various craft and even "non-human biologics". You can watch the entire hearing on YouTube from AP News' livestream of the proceedings: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpzJnrwob1A

 

Meanwhile, the Democrats have been introducing legislation in the Senate to force disclosure of UAPs and basically give congress a lot more oversight over what is going on: https://www.democrats.senate.gov/newsroom/press-releases/schumer-rounds-introduce-new-legislation-to-declassify-government-records-related-to-unidentified-anomalous-phenomena-and-ufos_modeled-after-jfk-assassination-records-collection-act--as-an-amendment-to-ndaa

 

This legislation (the 2024 NDAA) just passed today:

 

Spoiler is a boring legal stuff edit clarifying the NDAA being passed in the Senate with the UAP provisions. I just wanted to get some better sources than a Tweet.

Spoiler

EDIT: I wanted to give some better sources about the NDAA passing as there was some confusion I saw online about whether the UAP amendments passed in full. What I have found is this. S.2226 (the 2024 NDAA) passed (see: https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/senate-bill/2226/text). This text contains some references to "unidentified anomalous phenomena". S.Amdt.935 to S.2226 also passed (https://www.congress.gov/amendment/118th-congress/senate-amendment/935/text). This contains pages and pages of discussion about "unidentified anomalous phenomena" in line with what the above tweets discuss. "07/27/2023 Amendment SA 935, as amended, agreed to in Senate by Unanimous Consent." and "07/27/2023 Senate ordered [S.2226] printed as passed." seem to me to be proof that this has all actually passed the senate (still needs to go to house and president). The confusions seems to be S.Amdt.797 was not passed, which was Schumer's original amendment. But that was apparently rolled into S.Amdt.935 (which I think is what some articles are calling the "manager's package" amendment, whatever that is, which combines a bunch of bipartisan amendments together). So that would explain the discrepancy there. I just wanted to clarify here because after posting I dug into things a bit more, thought for a second maybe the UAP stuff was heavily removed from the final bill and now am pretty sure again that it was not.

 

I understand there is a lot of skepticism about this kind of stuff, but right now we have a bipartisan push to get to the bottom of claims being made by various whistleblowers who seem to be considered credible in the eyes of Congress. There is under-oath testimony, an attempt to get Grusch into a "SCIF" which is apparently a secure room where he legally able to talk to Representatives about the disclosures he cannot make on live TV in a public hearing (names, places, etc) and an overall "this is serious" vibe. Some of his claims are "mundane" accusations of criminality on the part of defense contractors and various agencies so from that perspective some people may just be processing this as a typical whistleblower proceeding.

 

Anyway, this is definitely a far cry from someone rambling on AM radio. There will be skepticism since Grusch is going by the book and therefore the bombshells that go beyond claims of proof and into actual proof, if any, will be dropped in the lap of congress people who can then figure out how to proceed, versus a Snowden-like illegal public disclosure (I am not anti-Snowden but it is clear Grusch is trying to take the "correct" route here). And this is not just like Marjorie Taylor Greene types pushing this, there are people like AOC (who interviewed Grusch in my link above, with the composure of someone taking his claims seriously) and Chuck Schumer (recently pushing for the UAP language throughout this years defense act).

 

Anyway, the whole thing just feels very surreal to me because people who are presumably more informed on this kind of thing are actually taking this seriously. So while it's too early to claim anything one way or the other, I don't think this can be dismissed out of hand based on the skepticism bar of UFO-talk being the purview of mescaline-brained hippies who spent too much time in a Nevada desert.

 

Also to make this slightly about Doom, I always wondered what "Phobos Anomaly" and "Deimos Anomaly" meant when I was a kid. The dictionary definition didn't help me. It was only later on I realized the "anomaly" was a pre-existing portal on each moon linked to one another that the military basically cordoned off and reverse-engineered. At least thats what I think, I can't quite remember classic Doom lore exactly. It's interesting that UAP is also a reference to anomaly (except when it means aerial, I've seen both definitions used). And also UAP/UAC. Idk just some silly closing thoughts.

 

Edited July 28, 2023 by insertwackynamehere

[Major Arlene]

it's stupid & a distraction from the myriad of the other, more immediate problems America faces. the end.

[7Mahonin]

Until there’s more than “I can’t disclose this publicly but can do so privately” when it comes to providing actual evidence of Grusch’s claims, then don’t expect anyone to believe it in any large capacity. People have lied under oath before, regardless of what it could do to their career, reputation, etc. It’s also interesting that Grusch is being called a whistleblower, but he has been given permission to come forward from the DoD, that doesn’t sound like a whistleblower to me. 

 

With that said, the majority of the major news outlets in the US are too busy talking about Trump or Hunter Biden, depending on their target audience leanings, and are brushing this to the side or flat out ignoring it. That sounds like the complete opposite of an elaborate distraction. If it is a distraction it would make more sense if this was what they were all covering day in and day out, but they’re not. That is more telling to me what this will likely all amount to: nothing. 
 

Now, if it does turn out to be true, then the evidence needs to be made public and the public itself needs to be addressed. We need to see these so called non-human remains and crafts and understand why we have been lied to for so long. Even if it was true, realistically, they will not give us this information until it is too late. 
 

I definitely believe there is life beyond Earth, somewhere, but until there is hard evidence that they have entered our atmosphere, orbited our planet, crashed here, etc. then it is basically just having faith that this is real or not real. People arguing over the who, what, when, how, and why are thinking on a human level, but until we can understand what we’re dealing with we cannot truly understand their intentions, reasons for crashes if they have tech more advanced than anything on earth, etc. it is all speculation until we know for a fact what we’re looking at. 

Edited July 28, 2023 by 7Mahonin

[FecalMystAche]

I found it interesting that the witnesses insists on calling it “non-human”, but never directly refer to them as aliens or that they even have an origin beyond our planet.

 

I always felt if the little green/gray men were real, that they are not the real aliens. I imagine they would be more like drones or androids that may even be some sort of advanced AI, which would make the whole how can they crash if they have the technology to reach earth make more sense if there is a chance they can malfunction. Perhaps they don’t travel from space to here anymore, only did it once, and have a base of operations underwater that is like a warehouse to create more android pilots to do whatever it is they do in our airspace. 
 

I’m just imagining here, but the truth is aliens may look humanoid, but they may not. I think the public seeing them look more humanoid would be easier to process than if we see that they look like a breathing ovarian cyst.

Edited July 28, 2023 by FecalMystAche

[Gez]

40 minutes ago, 7Mahonin said:

I definitely believe there is life beyond Earth, somewhere

Me too, but there's a big difference between "life exists" and "life exists as an intelligent star-faring civilization that has mastered some physics-defying way to overcoming the tyranny of distance and can actually come visit us".

 

I don't think some bacterioid lifeform floating around in the clouds of Venus would count as the latter, if they do actually exist at all.

[Somniac]

A significant chunk of people aren't going to take this stuff seriously until there is real, tangible evidence infront of their eyes. Like, roll out the wreckage on a trolley sort of thing. Even then, you can imagine the mass hysteria if it did turn out to be true. The population at large is not ready to accept that kind of fundamental paradigm shift, regardless of whether the visitors are benevolent or hostile.

 

I'm still not convinced myself. I think it's peak human hubris to assume there's not at least *some* form of life somewhere, intelligent or otherwise. You have to take the scale and timeline of the cosmos into account though. Maybe there is intelligent life around Alpha Centauri, 4.2 ly away. Maybe there was, 20 billion years ago. Maybe its just a microbe in a crater. In a different galaxy, in another dimension, etc etc. We can go on like this all day. 

 

Still, there are some compelling aspects to the argument. A tic-tac shaped flying object that has no visible propulsion, jumps 60 miles in the blink of an eye, and jams radar?

 

I don't know about any aircraft, drone, or other piece of technology that can do that. Do you? 

[Naarok0fkor]

https://www.deviantart.com/naarok0fkor/art/The-Truth-is-in-here-853070726

[Azuris]

An interesting point someone wrote elsewhere that could solve some of the questions:

 

There is seemingly Money that was used for other things than it was given for.

So it could be the documents where made by purpose as they are, as if someone of the agencies will start chanting about the stuff, the person will be instantly spotted.

 

So maybe it is more about misused money and the agencies put in the aliens to spott the whistleblower and take damage on his credibility.

 

 

Imo for all the stuff is absolutely no physical evidence and documentation.

There are too many states on this planet, so a mayor one that collapsed during the time, that even losed nukes (sowjets).

Look what Wikileaks was able to gather and a small Fish as Snowden.

You can't hide it, People love talking too much.

The stuff seen in the videos could be everything, Fermi is still too logical.

Even something happening in the fourth Dimension is more plausible.

 

[Murdoch]

I believe that 99% of witness UAP phenomena is misidentified things like satellites, space stations, meteors, and less understood natural phenomena like ball lightning.  I myself have a video I have posted here before I honestly can't explain, where a bright light hovers over a river before shooting quickly over mountains in the distance (you would have to know the terrain to appreciate how quick it moved). I think this was most likely ball lightning, as I simply cannot imagine hyper intelligent aliens crossing the void of space and going "Hey, let's go hover over that river next to that tiny-ass town for a bit before pissing off in a random direction at night." Eliminate the impossible before considering the improbable.

But when people en masse seem to be observing actual craft from different vantage points with no obvious reason or means to collude with one another, and experienced pilots especially are reporting what seem to be actual craft, then I find myself struggling to dismiss such stories. Thought just what these sightings represent is difficult to discern.

 

Anyway, as for this "whistleblower",  I remain very skeptical. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and so far he's produced three-fifths of bugger all. I don't buy the "distraction" argument because it simply isn't working. I still hear about Trumpty Dumpty and the Bidens on a weekly basis and I am not even in America. This most likely just the handiwork of an incompetent government that couldn't find it's own ass with both hands, GPS and help from friendly locals. It's yet another pointless circus that will most likely come to nothing.

[OniriA]

So, did they find the aliens? 

 

Did they classify them as illegal aswell?

[Duderald]

I thought you were talking about the United Australia Party

[D4NUK1]

52 minutes ago, OniriA said:

So, did they find the aliens? 

 

Did they classify them as illegal aswell?

That's depend where they land, thoses greys sure looked up to District 9, so they are cherry peeking their travel destinations. 

[Dreemurr Deceevurr]

Jingling keys. Nothing more.

[aloysiusfreeman]

 

Posting this without comment

[DogsRNice]

I feel like if the government actually had aliens it would have had a credible leak since people can't keep their mouths shut on things

[Biodegradable]

Who in the bleeding blue fuck cares about sodding UFOs when the planet is turning into a galactic boiled egg?! We have bigger concerns that require our urgent attention and wondering if the US government is holding fucking E.T. hostage in Area 51 at this point is the least of our problems.

 

Edited July 28, 2023 by Biodegradable

[Legatron17]

The whole UFO thing is an incredibly obvious psyop, and I would not be surprised if some footage ends up getting "accidentally leaked", which would display incredibly realistic close-up imagery of alien bodies and aircraft. While it will look indistinguishable from reality, it will still be a fake, but most people will believe it. My guess is that its purpose is to turn more Americans and people in foreign countries into atheists and wreak chaos this way.

[dasho]

16 minutes ago, Biodegradable said:

Who in the bleeding blue fuck cares about sodding UFOs when the planet is turning into a galactic boiled egg?! We have bigger concerns that require our urgent attention and wondering if the US government is holding fucking E.T. hostage in Area 51 at this point is the least of our problems.

 

 

I will file "boiling Earth" and "definitely aliens this time, guys" next to Y2K, the Mayan Calendar, rampant Africanized killer bee swarms, and other things that I've been told to panic about over the years by talking heads.

[Pechudin]

50 minutes ago, dasho said:

 

I will file "boiling Earth" and "definitely aliens this time, guys" next to Y2K, the Mayan Calendar, rampant Africanized killer bee swarms, and other things that I've been told to panic about over the years by talking heads.

 

I would not file the aliens thing in the same category as the very real climate change threat.

[dasho]

2 minutes ago, Pechudin said:

 

I would not file the aliens thing in the same category as the very real climate change threat.

 

Different (heat) strokes for different folks

[aloysiusfreeman]

54 minutes ago, dasho said:

 

I will file "boiling Earth" (...)and other things that I've been told to panic about over the years by talking heads.

 

While hyperbole, over the years the climate has been getting progressively worse

[DSC]

31 minutes ago, dasho said:

 

Different (heat) strokes for different folks

Why are you talking about a proven objective fact as if it were a mere matter of opinion?

[dasho]

25 minutes ago, DSC said:

Why are you talking about a proven objective fact as if it were a mere matter of opinion?

 

Tell you what, I'll take it seriously when the world hard commits to nuclear power (the only true future for clean energy at scale, hydro is good but won't scale, solar and wind are a fever dream for output, reliability and sustainability) and we aren't told to ration our meat consumption and buy battery-powered vehicles by people who fly jets to conferences to dine on Wagyu beef and come up with new ways to regulate or tax us into submission for not doing so.

[aloysiusfreeman]

Bad policy from capitalist governments doesn't negate science though. 

 

 

[dasho]

8 minutes ago, aloysiusfreeman said:

Bad policy from capitalist governments doesn't negate science though. 

 

 

 

Maybe, but it does negate my ability to give a damn.

 

EDIT: I'll stop the sidebar, it's distracting from the important alien discussion

Edited July 28, 2023 by dasho

[7Mahonin]

Yeah, please. Let’s not turn this into arguing over climate change and the US. It’s one thing to be a skeptic over the UFO stuff but this topic is supposed to discuss this, not every pressing issue you can think of outside of it. 

[magicsofa]

The footage of the pills is definitely fascinating. And, it is much more feasible that a small probe would be sent here than an actual ship with living passengers.

 

One thing I wonder in this situation is, why would they get caught? It is possible that their technology is not so advanced to be able to cloak their probe. Then again, we can camouflage stuff with pretty basic measures... wouldn't they think of that? Even just a reflective surface to make it harder to see? OR COLOR IT FRICKIN BLUE? I just imagine the aliuns having their own hearing about "how the hell did they catch us on their primitive imaging technology." I guess the main excuse I could think of is that they just don't care, if they think we can't reach them or fight back in any meaningful way then they might not bother to cover up. Especially if it's just an inexpensive probe coming around to collect some data and then leave.

[insertwackynamehere]

There are a lot of comments here which I think are interesting. I just want to say one thing which I think is very important for clarifying the current state of affairs. Right now this is a credible legal issue. High ranking officials are coming out to a congress who is taking things seriously and an inspector general who is taking things seriously based both on testimony that is public and evidence that is not public.

 

What this means is this is right now, as far as the public is concerned, a legal issue unfolding. This is intriguing in its own right, and has potential for further implications, but right now it is all lawyers, legality and law. At the most mundane, as I said in my OP, there is apparently enough evidence that some agencies are acting in a rogue manner avoiding congressional oversight and private contractors might be siphoning off funds. These are serious allegations that are being treated as credible, regardless of the UAP stuff which seems both incidental to the accusations at hand but of course extremely intriguing because of course the subject matter is interesting.

 

This is separate from the scientific/empiric/rational/skeptic view about things. Without evidence in the hands of the public, this whole thing is non-falsifiable and cannot be a scientific discussion just yet. I completely agree with that. We cannot empirically discuss aliens based on "what ifs".

 

The goal of all of this is to get to the bottom of a series of alleged massive coverups that might be as mundane as run-of-the-mill military industrial complex fraud and rogue agencies treating congress and the president like temporary workers who don't deserve to have oversight.

 

It may be as exciting as parts of government or private aerospace being forced to disclose some degree of knowledge of something out of this world.

 

The legal aspects must be delved into, congress is doing that right now, whatever they have seen that we haven't has seemingly affected them in such a way that they are pushing forward based on what they see as some level of credibility to certain claims being made, and if they are allowed to do their job, then hopefully the public will end up better informed and the actual science, if any, can commence.

 

This of course does not mean the public has to accept extraordinary claims without extraordinary evidence as that is a scientific burden that must be met, not a legal one.

 

The intriguing thing here is we are only 1 degree of "what ifs" away from UFO stuff being real. It is still a "what if" but it has never been treated this way before. I think the "what ifs" can be an interesting discussion because we are not scientists discussing papers but forum-goers having an armchair off-topic discussion about current events. But I completely agree that absolutely nothing is proven by any of this in a scientific sense, as far as any of us know.

That's why I think out-of-hand skepticism is a bit annoying about this topic. There is a very objective truth right now that Congress for whatever reason suddenly really cares about this. That's still in the legal realm, but you can't really be a skeptic about the fact it is being discussed, investigated and legislated on as we speak. At some point, doing so makes you become a conspiracy theorist (e.g. they are discussing it to distract people from more pressing issues, its all part of some plan, etc). That's no longer rational skepticism, that's looking at what is objectively happening and coming up with a series of hypothetical machinations to explain it beyond "congress people have seen things the public haven't and now think this is a legitimate priority".

Edited July 28, 2023 by insertwackynamehere

[HavoX]

Wonderful. Aliens are going to kill us all... eventually.

[ludicrous_peridot]

So... it's difficult for me to assess the implications of what is happening as I am from a very different part of the world, and I guess I am in the boat with the folks calling out the "real pressing world problems", but I must admit I enjoyed watching Unidentified: Inside America's UFO Investigation, and was curious how credible the whole documentary was, even if I also admit it was more of a distraction from the daily problems in my personal life at that moment.