On abusing saving in doom

[Stroggman]

I wanna save but not in the way of abusing saving so recommend the ways to save not to be considered abusing the save feature in Doom, a doomer said I won't get good

Edited August 2, 2023 by Stroggman

[Edward850]

You can save whenever you like, however many times you like. There is intentionally no restrictions on the feature.

[7Mahonin]

If there was meant to be a limit then Id would’ve added limited save slots per difficulty much like the older Hitman games did for saving progress within a map where easier difficulties had more save slots available and the hardest mode had none (this is not including saving between maps). Clearly that isn’t how saving works in Doom, so save when you want to, or don’t. It’s your choice to make. 

Edited August 1, 2023 by 7Mahonin

[Murdoch]

2 hours ago, Stroggman said:

I wanna save but not in the way of abusing saving so recommend the ways to save not to be considered abusing the save feature in Doom

 

... what? Seriously,  what? Do you think if you "abuse" saves the Game Police will come and arrest you?

 

It's a game. The point is to have fun. So use the mechanics provided in the game however you damned well like so long as you have fun.

Edited August 2, 2023 by Murdoch

[spineapple tea]

If you really want advice on how to stop saving-scumming and not just support group talk on how it's alright, here. I noticed that over the last year or so I've just stopped saving entirely throughout gameplay and I think it mostly comes down to habit. Start playing easier and shorter WADs where you won't be as reliant on saves as you would with tougher ones and start to develop a mentality of "I don't need to save here, it's fine." If you're gonna try this then I'd recommend starting out with the first two IWADs. Once you've started getting comfortable with this, you can start moving up to harder and longer levels. Another thing I'd recommend but haven't tried (in a while at least) is allowing yourself to save at any time but giving yourself some sort of consequence for doing so or giving yourself a limited amount of saves per map. This of course requires more willpower since it's all self-imposed though. Good luck with whatever path you choose.

 

Edit: should also mention that there's no shame in stepping down in difficulty. Just because you can't do it with or without saves doesn't mean it's over.

Edited August 1, 2023 by spineapple tea

[EvilSqueegee]

Save as much as you like, whenever you like.

[BerserkerNoir]

Play as you like, having fun is the part of playing doom.
Or if you want to restrict yourself.
Youre only allowed to save if you beat a certain difficult part of the map, or save whenever.
But embrace mistakes by saving with low health lol

[baja blast rd.]

Play like this

 

 

[EvilSqueegee]

3 minutes ago, baja blast rd. said:

Play like this

 

I snorted. This is amazing.

[kwc]

You can save however you like and if someone gives you a hard time tell them “save deez” and move on.

 

If you’re just looking for ways to self-impose restrictions for your saving, try only saving after dying and returning to the spot that killed you. 

[Helm]

echoing what spineapple tea wrote above as practical advice to not end up with a quicksave fixation. This doesn't have to come from a macho or tryhardism place at all, you can look at it like this: when you've made some mistakes and you're down to 20 health and hell is descending upon you you're robbing yourself of a deep thrill by taking a quicksave and elevating all that tension. Of course any brain's tolerance for fake stress for funsies is different but if you're actively trying to test yourself look at it that way. Climbing up from a bit of despair (or perishing bitterly) are the moneyshots of playing a hard game like Doom, why would you rob yourself of the thrill ride?

I wanted to add, I agree with playing the iwads and then something mild so you can get exits without dying but I found more return for my time invested playing one really hard wad (in my case it was Sunder) where getting out of the first room will be a struggle for a while. But if you get out of that first room you can now get out of a lot of rooms... The hard grind can teach doom movement much more than going down 30 megawads worth of mild udoom corridors. Then after a bit of a hard grind you can return to a lot of the milder stuff and feel naturally less or not at all compelled to save. Practice works, humans aren't lying about that.

[Plut]

Don't save at all. It's a bad habit :p.

But seriously, once I stopped saving playing has become so much more fun because I didn't have to do this tedious thing anymore and my skills started to grow, which they didn't when I used saves because there was no reason to play better.

[Lucius Wooding]

Save before or after picking up keys. It should help you in longer maps and it's not completely arbitrary. If it smells like a trap then maybe use your judgement and save beforehand.

 

I do think single segment runs help you become more consistent as a player but saves are still a valuable tool for saving time and for practicing certain fights. But I'd say a vast majority of players do use saves without restriction, even in this forum where most users are dedicated Doom players. It's not really expected to play saveless unless you're recording demos, and a ton of maps each year are pretty unrealistic for most players to beat without them. Some ports also have a resurrect command or rewind feature which can bail you out if you suddenly die and want to scout the rest of the map or something, or if you consider a death cheap.

[VoanHead]

Yeah save however you like

 

Just don't be like Vargskelethor who saves when his health is really low or saves in the middle of a fight just when a projectile is about to hit and kill him.

[EvilSqueegee]

9 minutes ago, VoanHead said:

Yeah save however you like

 

Just don't be like Vargskelethor who saves when his health is really low or saves in the middle of a fight just when a projectile is about to hit and kill him.

 

I feel so seen.

[Tarnsman]

1 hour ago, baja blast rd. said:

Play like this

 

 

The manual saving instead of quick saving is what makes this strat truly elite.

[sean-dude]

Just save before you pickup a key. Most mappers throw 12 revenants at you after a key pickup.

Edited August 2, 2023 by sean-dude

[Biodegradable]

Literally nothing wrong with saving whenever the hell you want to. I'll let MtPain27 tell you why:

 

 

[LoatharMDPhD]

2 hours ago, Stroggman said:

I wanna save but not in the way of abusing saving so recommend the ways to save not to be considered abusing the save feature in Doom

// there is no such thing... It was designed into the game, so use it as you see fit to maximize your enjoyment whilst retaining what can describe as honorable gameplay... then watch Decino get his ass handed to him for 9 hours...

Edited August 2, 2023 by LoatharMDPhD

[Stroggman]

A doomer told me I won't get good if I save a lot

[dasho]

I wouldn't worry about the judgement of someone who actually calls themselves a 'Doomer'

[Stroggman]

3 hours ago, baja blast rd. said:

Play like this

 

Wait lol, overdone on saves lol

3 hours ago, baja blast rd. said:

 

 

 

[QuotePilgrim]

28 minutes ago, Stroggman said:

A doomer told me I won't get good if I save a lot

Tell them to go have intercourse with themself, problem solved.

[Lucius Wooding]

1 minute ago, Stroggman said:

A doomer told me I won't get good if I save a lot

 

I think the fastest way to get good is to practice maps/fights and learn how to strategize. Use saves and even cheats if you need to (for convenience), and eventually many fights will become very consistent since you can learn by trial and error a lot faster than just grinding attempts. Also note that blind runs are an unrealistic standard unless you're using saves or sticking to easy maps (for your skill). Personally I like going for them but my expectations tend to be lower if the map is remotely hard or long. Pretty much every hard map I've beaten has been through practicing and using well defined strats for the attempts.

 

You can also play harder stuff over time since that will somewhat force you to get better. Watching other people's runs also works on some level. But it shouldn't feel like a full time job, it's OK to treat some WADs with a more casual approach to checking them out. There have been some I've literally enjoyed walking around and exploring the architecture and not dealing with the fights at all. And there have been a few WADs I regret grinding altogether because they just weren't fun or worthwhile. Chasing skill improvement can be tiresome at times and it doesn't take too high of a baseline before you can enjoy a lot of stuff, so don't feel like you have to owe the community a lifelong grind for some kind of recognition. 

 

That said, single segment runs will expose you if you're inconsistent and rely on saves to beat maps. If you have a bad habit of catching revenant missiles for example or you can't deal with archviles, often you can use saves and get past them with no damage or with low damage rolls if it takes 10 tries. If you have poor execution, even for a moment, saves will cover up what could end a single segment run. But I think very few people will actually judge you, most won't care. Gatekeeping people for their skill is so 2001 anyway.

[dististik]

29 minutes ago, Stroggman said:

A doomer told me I won't get good if I save a lot

 

I mean, unless hyper optimizing how quickly you nebulously get good is the only reason you play this game, I don't super think it matters whether you (or anyone for that matter) are good at Doom. Saving less will probably demand growth at a faster rate, but if you're having a good time saving frequently I see no reason not to.

[Shepardus]

3 hours ago, baja blast rd. said:

Play like this

Didn't reload after missing a shot? smh

[Faceman2000]

Context: OP kept bringing up DSDA’s rewind function in a group chat and someone else got annoyed. XD

 

Like everyone else said, play how you want. Limiting how often you save will increase your skill but it will also increase your frustration when you die twenty minutes into a save. On the flip side, only sticking to maps that won’t kill you in the name of playing saveless won’t improve your skill either.

[Noiser]

Not sure why there is animosity against the guy who said that. If your intention is getting better at the game (by your own wish and desire), avoid save-scumming is a valuable advice. At least it was what helped me in the long run.

Edited August 2, 2023 by Noiser

[RHhe82]

56 minutes ago, Noiser said:

 

Not sure why there is animosity against the guy who said that

 

Personally I get an allergic reaction when someone tries to impose their own self-imposed restrictions upon others. All this ”Single-segment or bust” mentality.

 

Of course I know nothing of the context, and I don’t if the guy really meant savescumming (as hilariously demonstrated by Baja :P) and not using saves in general.
 

Obviously using less saves will help you get better at the game. Either that, or get frustrated at it and ragequit rather than endure one more second of pRo-dOOmErZ bootcamp bullshit.

[Reigada]

5 hours ago, baja blast rd. said:

Play like this

 

 

 

definitive way to play doom