Is Project Brutality hated in Doomworld ?

[Stroggman]

I'm curious if Project Brutality is hated in Doomworld cause doomers here rather play Doom in vanilla

[G19Doom]

I don’t care and I’m sure most people don’t either, even those who pretend to give a damn deep down do not care who plays with what or how. I don’t use project brutality but it has nothing to do with hate, I just don’t care for mods like that. They’re boring eye candy. 

[RataUnderground]

I don't think Brutal Doom or Project Brutality are mostly hated, but it seems to me that most find it interferes too much with gameplay and that the novelty wears off early. You play a couple of times with the mod and then you never use it again because it's basically an over the top parody of Doom.

[banjiepixel]

Hate is such a strong word. For many people here, Brutal Doom and Project Brutality are extremely overrated and just generally prefer something that is much less of a radical change to the original Doom gameplay. Alot of the people here love the simplicity of vanilla and disagree with many design decisions of Brutal Doom/Project Brutality. Mostly people here just do not care about this type of mods and I feel like it's more common for players of Brutal mods to hate the Vanilla gameplay than it is to Vanilla players to hate Brutal mods.

 

There are other mods that I personally like much more than Project Brutality, like Supercharge and Complex Doom and even those I play only sometimes very casually. I also don't use any ZDoom based sourceport as my main so using most mods in general isn't very optimal for me.

[Zulk RS]

Nah. No hate to Brutal Doom or Project Brutality. Complex Doom and Doom RL Arsenal are more my style.

[Biodegradable]

No, most of us are merely indifferent to them. It was popular to rag on them a decade ago, but anyone still harbouring a burning hatred for such mods at this point are the real weirdos.

[Redneckerz]

I wonder why this particular question keeps returning. Probably because it and Project Brutality are the only mods most new users come across.

 

There is a lot more (Minicharge, Complex Doom, Voxel Doom, etc) underneath the techbase that deserves equal, if not better praise. As such, BD is what it is.

[Terrcraft]

BD and PB have a (semi-earned) stereotype around them that people who like those mods believe them to be an outright replacement of Vannila gameplay, and get upset when a wad doesnt work with it. But other than that people seem to like it.

[Gregor]

Yes.

[tornado potato]

I personally don't like Brutal Doom very much. The animations feel out of place. The gameplay is changed too much. For a more modern, eye candy experience I prefer EVP (Enhanced Vanilla Project). It looks cool and the old gameplay style is preserved.

[Azuris]

In every Group/Community are "Elitists" that look down on People that aren't true enough to the original.

 

I've seen that in Clubs of Hardtechno, from Metal Heads and so it is no wonder that you will find also here Gatekeepers

 

As some even have a Problem with being saving everywhere, a standard in classic PC Gaming that was only kept out in more modern Games, because Consoles lack Memory.

 

Its nonsense, you can modify and demodify Doom nowadays with a few Clicks and play it as your Mood says to.

Thats one of the modern Appealings of Doom.

 

Only People using Mouse Look should be doomed and stoned to Death by Law.

Heresy!

[Xaser]

The community at large has moved past the days of "hey plz make this work with brutal", thankfully. It rarely crops up nowadays and people who do it immediately get told they're silly for saying it. :P

 

[Mr Masker]

It's too violent.

 

This is a holy, child friendly, E for Everyone, Pegi 3 forum.

Edited August 9, 2023 by Mr Masker

[RHhe82]

Zero interest does not equate to hate.

[HQDefault]

I'll admit it does kinda annoy me that there are some players that treat Brutal Doom/Project Brutality as outright replacements for vanilla rather than separate experiences. And as a level designer it can be very frustrating to watch those mods completely destroy your map's balance.

 

But it's really not worth complaining about. People are gonna play Doom the way they want to play it, and that's fine.

[Daytime Waitress]

3 hours ago, Redneckerz said:

I wonder why this particular question keeps returning. Probably because it and Project Brutality are the only mods most new users come across.

 

I'm from the future and I'm here to tell you that, although historians are still debating exactly how it happened, Junkfood 2 exploded and is now the only "exciting new Doom mod created by someone" that gaming websites ever highlight these days. So the Doomworld in my time is filled, daily, with threads like "do peolpe actually playing maps without 3000 imps? lmao". It's Whatever (TM), but Cheello and Nash have recently perfected voxel doritos, so we got that going for us.

[mrthejoshmon]

It seems there is always more perceived hatred for Project Brutality rather than actual hatred.

[Nine Inch Heels]

5 hours ago, Stroggman said:

I'm curious if Project Brutality is hated in Doomworld cause doomers here rather play Doom in vanilla

Basically what Xaser pointed out already, I will add, however, that there's a bit more to it.

 

Time was, that people posted bad reviews/feedback if some WAD or pk3 didn't run properly with either project brutality or brutal doom. So it's not a PB exclusive problem. There have been a few people who made themselves particularly infamous for giving poor ratings if anything didn't run in their favourite niche source port, too, btw - those folks aren't talked about much, if at all, because their numbers pale in comparison to those who ran BD or PB.

 

Here's the thing, if you got lot of people using "thing A" there will always be some entitled and vocal headcases amongst them, who will then complain that "thing A" doesn't work as expected when used with "something.WAD". With no rudimentary idea as to how anything doom works, blaming the mapper is anything but an unnatural course of action (thus far, "thing A" has always worked fine, so it must be the mapper's fault, right?). Now you tell that vocal person that their supposedly 100% justified criticism is anything but, and vocal person yells into the internet, on some other wavelength, that people from "notyoursitehere" hate gameplay mods.

 

And now you know why this question, as well as similar ones, just aren't gonna disappear for good in the foreseeable future...

Edited August 9, 2023 by Nine Inch Heels

[Gothic]

I don't hate Brutal Doom, but I do hate people that keep asking "(What do you think of/Your opinion on) Brutal Doom/Project Brutality/myhouse.wad"

[Caffeine Freak]

Nah, I've never disliked Brutal Doom. I used to play Brutal Doom quite frequently years back, but as @RataUndergroundsaid, the novelty does wear off after a bit. Only play it once every blue moon nowadays. I have yet to play Project Brutality, but I have seen some clips and will probably check it out in the near future. That said, I can imagine it will occupy much the same spot in my Doom playlist and sentiments as Brutal Doom: I'd have nothing against it and perfectly understand the attraction to it, and would consider it fun popcorn entertainment and a new interesting challenge to play through a handful of levels or so. But I would still prefer a closer to vanilla Doom experience most of the time.

[Thomased22]

As someone who enjoys stuff like Hideous Destructor and classic style gameplay mods, on paper Project Brutality is something in between the two extremes. And TBH now that it has a HUD built into the mod most of my problems are solved with it. But there's one issue, one that cripples the experience. All of the motion blur in most of the animations gives me headaches quick and consistently. As well as leading to poor visibility. PB would be super fun to play, a mod like PB with progression designed to open up more and more throughout a megawad sounds like the one way I'd be able to make myself play megawads. But I can't play the mod long enough to actually get to the point in a megawad where I could get fun weapons like the nailgun and machine guns and upgrades to the rifles and shotguns. It's a shame since I love rifles in doom mods. But since I don't find PB to be a playable experience, I guess my main fix for rifles is hideous. Especially since it has full voxel compatibility, and even voxels for some of the addons. And I like voxels. They mesh especially well for hideous which is all about being immersive. And I could see PB achieving something similar if every time I switched weapons or reloaded or meleed I wasn't psychically attacked.

Gameplay's solid, presentation is hugely pleasing aesthetically, but the way it was handled in motion is just baffling. It's really a shame. 

[Cutman 999]

I think this question in particular showcases the difference between modding communities and what kind of contents they prefer to consume.

If something like BD existed in let's say, GTA SA or Gmod, people would not give an absolute shit about debates like this, since those modding communities consume and make mods more as a little fun entertainment, an extension or fix to what the game has in store already, a way to see your favorite game in an another feel to pass the time.

The doom community has demonstrated multiple times their capacity to construct under the limitations of its engine, they are just focused on different kind of stuff related to "what I can do in doom" instead of "what I want to do in doom", and a thing antithetical of this mindset such as BD, just doesn't attract the majority of it.

[Thomased22]

7 minutes ago, Cutman 999 said:

I think this question in particular showcases the difference between modding communities and what kind of contents they prefer to consume.

If something like BD existed in let's say, GTA SA or Gmod, people would not give an absolute shit about debates like this, since those modding communities consume and make mods more as a little fun entertainment, an extension or fix to what the game has in store already, a way to see your favorite game in an another feel to pass the time.

The doom community has demonstrated multiple times their capacity to construct under the limitations of its engine, they are just focused on different kind of stuff related to "what I can do in doom" instead of "what I want to do in doom", and a thing antithetical of this mindset such as BD, just doesn't attract the majority of it.

Idk if this is universally true. There's plenty of "ah yes I shall use doom to do x absurd thing and it will be based". Treasure Tech world, plenty of those horror mods, Dwelling Sin, Hideous Destructor, and shittons of other things.

[Dimon12321]

I met Brutal Doom before Doom (but after Serious Sam and Painkiller) and, frankly speaking, I just got sick of it at some point and decided to take a look at how original Doom feels like. I found the gameplay of vanilla Doom more appropriate for me. 

Brutal Doom and Project Brutality just don't replicate the formula of Doom, or rather a game you would like to revisit occasionally. They milk emotions (primarily, good ones) out of you and you don't feel like staying with them for too long. The pace is different. I don't know, I feel like something is not right with them.

Edited August 9, 2023 by Dimon12321

[Ravendesk]

5 hours ago, Xaser said:

The community at large has moved past the days of "hey plz make this work with brutal", thankfully. 

these posts just get mod edits now :p

[Akagi666]

I don't hate it but do think it's cringe.

[Zulk RS]

10 hours ago, Dimon12321 said:

I met Brutal Doom before Doom (but after Serious Sam and Painkiller) and, frankly speaking, I just got sick of it at some point and decided to take a look at how original Doom feels like. I found the gameplay of vanilla Doom more appropriate for me. 

Brutal Doom and Project Brutality just don't replicate the formula of Doom, or rather a game you would like to revisit occasionally. They milk emotions (primarily, good ones) out of you and you don't feel like staying with them for too long. The pace is different. I don't know, I feel like something is not right with them.

 

I'd like to add on to this.

 

I don't know what it is about Brutal Doom and Project Brutality but when I play it for the first time in months, I unironically have more fun with it than vanilla doom. But the feeling quickly fades by MAP04 and it starts to get really dull and boring. I don't know why. One mapset where this didn't happen however, was Doom 2 In Spain Only. I don't know if this is some mapping magic by the talent behind that project or if Brutal Doom actually requires a certain kind of map design to keep the fun going. I will admit the feelings did fade to the point where it didn't have the "Better than vanilla" effect that the first two maps had but even way into the playthrough it didn't get boring or dull like it usually does.

 

I wonder if Hell on Earth Starter Pack/Extermination Day (The mapset that was built with Brutal Doom in mind by Brutal Doom creator) will also keep it from becoming boring. I should play Extermination Day with Brutal Doom to test it out sometime (The first time I played the mapset, I loaded it up with Complex Doom for the memes)

 

Project Brutality also has the same effect which was honestly surprising to me because to me Project Brutality is like Brutal Diet-Complex Doom. I honestly thought I would like it more than Complex but nope. I still like Complex Doom better.

 

12 hours ago, RHhe82 said:

Zero interest does not equate to hate.

 

 

Completely unrelated but my fever-addled brain though "Zero Interest" was some kind of Zero Tolerance mod for doom :P

[RataUnderground]

@Zulk RS

If you want to try a little experiment, use project brutality in conjunction with Obligue map sets. The close to roguelike nature of being randomly generated levels, coupled with the mechanical imbalance of PB, are for me the ideal way in which to experience that mod. It's the only way I find it truly enjoyable.

It will probably also work with Complex Doom and the like.

[Zulk RS]

Thanks. Will definitely look into that at some point. And yeah, rogue-like nature of Oblidge would fit Complex Doom I think though even on normal map sets like TNT, Icarus and Revilution, Complex Doom works great.  (DISCLAIMER: Do not add any of the Complex Doom addons like Legendary Complex or Clusterfuck. It makes the thing frustrating and borderline unplayable)

[Midway64]

Alright I'm gonna use this thread to make a confession before this dies down.

 

I dogpiled on Brutal Doom a few months ago, and that included getting pissed off at people.

And now I feel stupid, like, let people enjoy whatever they want! And it's not like I was making a change anyway.

The reason for that was because of the sudden rise of controversy, yet again and again and again.

 

Now, the main formula of Brutal Doom does exactly what its supposed to do; Exaggerate the gameplay of Doom like a Hollywood movie

Problem is, it wears down, and quickly.

You play with the guns and enemies, and then you abandon it because it got boring.

 

Now if you kept playing over and over and over again, I might think you're insane (as that is part of insanity).

 

And thats my stance on it.