Quake II Remastered

[Edward850]

@ducon
Steam puts all files and "ports" (whatever that means) on your hard disk.

Edited August 16, 2023 by Edward850

[ducon]

And I can play these Steam games even if Steam has been removed?

[Edward850]

Depending on the game, yes. For example our games only attempt to initialise the Steam API once but ignore the result if it fails, running in an offline state.

Edited August 16, 2023 by Edward850

[hfc2x]

So, I don't know if I'm even going to get a response from the devs, but what's the rationale for this?

void weapon_railgun_fire(edict_t *ent)
{
	int damage = 100;
	int kick = 200;

	...
}

It seems extremely arbitrary to me to nerf one of the game's super weapons in single player, considering the BFG stayed completely unchanged. Is it because the BFG is now meant to be the only super weapon? I get that in deathmatch it made sense for the Railgun originally to do 100 damage because 150 damage is too much against another player. But why this change? It feels worthless now, since the Super Shotgun does more damage pretty much all the time.

 

Now, I know other people have complained about the lack of Machinegun climb-up, and I understand the omission since it's stated in the comments for the source code that it was because of the changed internal ticrate making it really difficult to port over. I fully get that reason. But what I don't get are the comments that also imply that it wasn't even worth a try because apparently no one wants it? It's kind of like Doom 3 BFG Edition removing the flashlight because people supposedly hated it.

 

The Blaster doing 15 damage instead of 10 on SP makes perfect sense, considering the enemies now are smarter and more agile, so I understand it's for balancing, and it feels much better the way it's now. I just find it puzzling that most of the other weapons stayed completely unchanged.

 

I'm sorry if this sounds like I'm complaining or bashing this release. I'm not trying to. I'm just trying to understand what was the reasoning for the changes, because they feel pretty arbitrary.

[tzen]

18 minutes ago, hfc2x said:

So, I don't know if I'm even going to get a response from the devs, but what's the rationale for this?

void weapon_railgun_fire(edict_t *ent)
{
	int damage = 100;
	int kick = 200;

	...
}

It seems extremely arbitrary to me to nerf one of the game's super weapons in single player, considering the BFG stayed completely unchanged. Is it because the BFG is now meant to be the only super weapon? I get that in deathmatch it made sense for the Railgun originally to do 100 damage because 150 damage is too much against another player. But why this change? It feels worthless now, since the Super Shotgun does more damage pretty much all the time.

 

Now, I know other people have complained about the lack of Machinegun climb-up, and I understand the omission since it's stated in the comments for the source code that it was because of the changed internal ticrate making it really difficult to port over. I fully get that reason. But what I don't get are the comments that also imply that it wasn't even worth a try because apparently no one wants it? It's kind of like Doom 3 BFG Edition removing the flashlight because people supposedly hated it.

 

The Blaster doing 15 damage instead of 10 on SP makes perfect sense, considering the enemies now are smarter and more agile, so I understand it's for balancing, and it feels much better the way it's now. I just find it puzzling that most of the other weapons stayed completely unchanged.

 

I'm sorry if this sounds like I'm complaining or bashing this release. I'm not trying to. I'm just trying to understand what was the reasoning for the changes, because they feel pretty arbitrary.

 

https://www.nexusmods.com/quake2/mods/15

 

New cvars:

 

un_railgun_nerf 0 (default): Railgun damage is set to original Quake 2 levels

1 : Remastered behaviour, i.e. Railgun damage is reduced in single player

 

un_berserker_jump 0 (default): Berserkers never jump, like in original Quake 2

1 : Remastered behaviour, i.e. the Berserker can jump

2 : New behaviour, see below

 

un_barrel_delay 0 (default): Barrels explode immediately, like in original Quake 2

1 : Remastered behaviour, i.e. barrels explode on a timer unless they take a lot of damage

 

un_machinegun_smooth 0 (default): The machinegun kicks up, like in original Quake 2

1 : Remastered behaviour, i.e. no kick

 

un_compass 0 (default): You do not have a compass

1 : You have a compass

 

 

The only thing fucky I noticed so far is that it seems the flashlight is removed along with the compass. Some of the new maps require the flashlight, though some seem to toggle it automatically. Just use "give flashlight" to sort that out.

Edited August 16, 2023 by tzen

[hfc2x]

I'm not asking for a mod, and I was already aware of Unmastered. I'm asking for the developers' rationale. Besides, mods are useless for people who play on console.

Edited August 16, 2023 by hfc2x
Added extra context

[Dasha W. Frost]

On 8/14/2023 at 8:40 PM, Dweller said:

 

You put them in User>[whatever your account name is for your PC]>Saved Games>Nightdive Studios>Quake 2>baseq2>players, or at least that's where I had to put them for it to work. 

Thank you for your reply, @Dweller! I did not even consider this location before!

Although unfortunately it still doesn't work for me for some unknown reason... I guess Kex doesn't like me, lol

[Edward850]

17 minutes ago, hfc2x said:

I'm not asking for a mod, and I was already aware of Unmastered. I'm asking for the developers' rationale. Besides, mods are useless for people who play on console.

 

The machinegun already didn't have recoil in Deathmatch so the behaviour being exclusive to singleplayer made absolutely no sense, and the recoil just made controllers annoying anyway.

 

The railgun was dealing far too much surprise damage and was the only weapon left that had unique singleplayer behaviour after the machine gun.

[hfc2x]

1 minute ago, Edward850 said:

The railgun was dealing far too much surprise damage

But isn't this what was always the point of the Railgun?

 

2 minutes ago, Edward850 said:

and was the only weapon left that had unique singleplayer behaviour after the machine gun.

The Chaingun, the HyperBlaster and the BFG also have unique SP behavior, but they were left as is. Is it because it's pretty much impossible to do stealth damage with them?

[MS-06FZ Zaku II Kai]

I think @hfc2x is correct @Edward850.

 

The railgun was always a high risk, high reward so it being significantly nerfed doesn't make sense as it makes it rather useless compared to other more convenient damage dealers like the ssg.

 

This is especialy apparent when playing on Nightmare where you need to quickly kill high tier enemies on later levels, but thanks to damage nerf there is nothing realy that makes it stand out in the weapon sandbox.

 

It would be like nerfing a sniper rifle from HALO series to deal 3 bodyshots and 2 headshots K.O. instead of the normal 2 bodyshots and 1 headshot.

 

It makes precise aiming less rewarding then in the original and I think many of us would welcome the change to more vanila damage values.

[Edward850]

The railgun is meant for ripping through multiple targets, that's its utility and thus the problem with its damage output. It could do way too much at once, and the surprise damage hitting 300 HP per target was getting a bit overwhelming.

 

It'll be weird to change back now because CotM is built around the Deathmatch damage output. Though I'm not really in charge of that decision anyway, you'd be debating with the wrong person.

Edited August 16, 2023 by Edward850

[hfc2x]

But ripping through multiple enemies while doing puny damage just removes its utility entirely. The Railgun was originally balanced around doing a ton of damage, which is why it's so slow. At this point it's likely the lowest DPS weapon in the game, barring the Blaster.

 

Besides, what I said about the Machinegun being an understandable change makes even more sense now that you mentioned controllers. It's a pretty complex situation all-around. But the Railgun's damage logic was a very simple and straightforward game mode check. Doesn't make any sense to remove that, considering all the other weapons I mentioned hadn't had their unique SP behaviors removed or altered, especially the BFG. Makes the Railgun even more useless now that pretty much all enemies are more intelligent and aggressive.

[D4NUK1]

2 minutes ago, hfc2x said:

But ripping through multiple enemies while doing puny damage just removes its utility entirely. The Railgun was originally balanced around doing a ton of damage, which is why it's so slow. At this point it's likely the lowest DPS weapon in the game, barring the Blaster.

 

Besides, what I said about the Machinegun being an understandable change makes even more sense now that you mentioned controllers. It's a pretty complex situation all-around. But the Railgun's damage logic was a very simple and straightforward game mode check. Doesn't make any sense to remove that, considering all the other weapons I mentioned hadn't had their unique SP behaviors removed or altered, especially the BFG. Makes the Railgun even more useless now that pretty much all enemies are more intelligent and aggressive.

 

 

To be honest, I'm fine with the railgun nerf because it's still deals piercing damage, and can still two shoots a line of enemies in a good position.

 

They effectivity it's on the multiple Hits per shot not the DMG per Shoot, and this is when come handy with the dual fire power up.

[LadyMistDragon]

3 hours ago, MS-06FZ Zaku II Kai said:

I think @hfc2x is correct @Edward850.

 

The railgun was always a high risk, high reward so it being significantly nerfed doesn't make sense as it makes it rather useless compared to other more convenient damage dealers like the ssg.

 

This is especialy apparent when playing on Nightmare where you need to quickly kill high tier enemies on later levels, but thanks to damage nerf there is nothing realy that makes it stand out in the weapon sandbox.

 

It would be like nerfing a sniper rifle from HALO series to deal 3 bodyshots and 2 headshots K.O. instead of the normal 2 bodyshots and 1 headshot.

 

It makes precise aiming less rewarding then in the original and I think many of us would welcome the change to more vanila damage values.

i sort of disagree with this, mainly because there's less incentive to bother aiming correctly when the railgun's as powerful as it is. I also preferred it that way so I may not have tons of room to talk however.

[Caffeine Freak]

On 8/15/2023 at 2:00 PM, JBerg said:

this remaster is excellent but the Beserker's new homing jump is a tad excessive. I wish we could dodge it; I haven't found a way to not get hit by it once they launch the attack.

 

Kind of agree. Immediately jumping backwards when they launch themselves seems to be the best bet, though it only seems to work for me maybe half the time, as the AOE blast they produce on impact has a pretty good range and the electrical current or whatever it produces can hit you while you're in the air.

[tzen]

Excessive is definitely the word. Even with it toned down by the unmaster mod, it's easily my least favorite aspect of Enhanced. Also when mutants show up, their leap attack is so comparatively underwhelming as to be jarring and kind of comical. Not that I want them to be buffed also, because they're already so annoyingly spongey to fight in even moderately open spaces.

Edited August 17, 2023 by tzen
Grammar

[Chezza]

I don't have the remaster. Have you guys tried jumping as he lands? Does the AOE blast only apply on ground?

Edited August 17, 2023 by Chezza

[SMG_Man]

19 minutes ago, Chezza said:

Does the AOE blast only apply on ground?

 

The splash effect can hit and fling you while you're already in mid-air.

[Jayextee]

I just beat Call of the Machine, which I left til last (my playthrough order was; base game, Reckoning, Ground Zero, 64, CotM) and holy shit. This is some essential Quake II right here; the maps feel more like modern DOOM community efforts than anything else, and I'm here for it.

 

I don't share the popular hate for the new Berzerker behaviour though. Whatever happened to the credo 'git gud'? Did that fall out of favour? It's not too difficult to adjust where you fight these guys (hint: not on bridges over lava pits!) or rush in with the SSG for the stagger, or to bait melee. I don't think their behaviour should be changed, really. Perhaps adjusted (because the first thing I tried versus their area of effect from the leaping attack was to jump at the moment they landed, to no avail) but not changed. They were a joke before, now they're a legit threat. I love it.

[Rudolph]

It cannot be any worse than encountering the Q4 Berzerker on the highest difficulty setting prior to being stroggified.

[JBerg]

1 hour ago, Jayextee said:

I just beat Call of the Machine, which I left til last (my playthrough order was; base game, Reckoning, Ground Zero, 64, CotM) and holy shit. This is some essential Quake II right here; the maps feel more like modern DOOM community efforts than anything else, and I'm here for it.

 

I don't share the popular hate for the new Berzerker behaviour though. Whatever happened to the credo 'git gud'? Did that fall out of favour? It's not too difficult to adjust where you fight these guys (hint: not on bridges over lava pits!) or rush in with the SSG for the stagger, or to bait melee. I don't think their behaviour should be changed, really. Perhaps adjusted (because the first thing I tried versus their area of effect from the leaping attack was to jump at the moment they landed, to no avail) but not changed. They were a joke before, now they're a legit threat. I love it.

 

I finished all the campaigns in the game on nightmare without save scumming so 'gitting gud' is not the issue. My issue is their attack almost not being avoidable. At least in Quake 1, when fiends launch themselves at you, you can avoid their attacks and not take damage. Imo, the Berserker's new attack is not fun.

Edited August 17, 2023 by JBerg

[tzen]

With the extreme length of the jump it also just *looks* dumb

[Jayextee]

2 minutes ago, JBerg said:

 

I finished all the campaigns in the game on nightmare without save scumming so 'gitting gud' is not the issue. My issue is their attack almost not being avoidable. At least in Quake 1, when fiends launch themselves at you, you can avoid their attacks and not take damage. Imo, this is not fun.

That attack they don't even do at mid to close range? That one?

[JBerg]

1 minute ago, Jayextee said:

That attack they don't even do at mid to close range? That one?

 

yeah, the one that you're kind of screwed if you have 2 or 3 of them coming at you together.

[BGreener]

30 minutes ago, Rudolph said:

It cannot be any worse than encountering the Q4 Berzerker on the highest difficulty setting prior to being stroggified.

Maybe? Depends? The horror of fighting a berserker as a pre-borged Kane kind of goes away with a nailgun. This is because Quake 4 baddies on the hardest setting can still be hitstunned unlike 2’s hardest setting.

 

The new berserkers can’t be hitstunned on the hardest and their new slam is a real quick attack but it doesn’t hurt that much. It really makes things messier when other baddies are present.

[Rudolph]

5 minutes ago, BGreener said:

Maybe? Depends? The horror of fighting a berserker as a pre-borged Kane kind of goes away with a nailgun. This is because Quake 4 baddies on the hardest setting can still be hitstunned unlike 2’s hardest setting.

They were? I remember almost rage-quitting from getting constantly one-shot by the Berzerk during the first encounter early on: you cannot outrun it and there is no room to dodge. I must have eventually lucked out, because I did beat the game eventually.

Edited August 17, 2023 by Rudolph

[Metal_Slayer]

This port really is the best way to play Q2, the only content it's missing are the PS1 maps and the content from the Zeebo port, including the Portuguese dub. 

I know it's not going to happen because of copyright, I just think it's funny.

[JBerg]

22 minutes ago, Metal_Slayer said:

This port really is the best way to play Q2, the only content it's missing are the PS1 maps and the content from the Zeebo port, including the Portuguese dub.

 

It's really great yeah. It would be cool if they added the Zaero expansion as well.

[Doomer1999]

I haven't seen anybody mention this yet. But what's up with the brightness in Q2 Remastered? I want to set the brightness to its original Q2 value, but I can't move the brightness slider backwards only forwards, making the game even more brighter, which is unnecessary IMHO, since the entire game is now bright enough by default.

Is there a console command to lower the brightness?

The game is now a little too bright and I miss the original Q2 atmosphere. That and I wish the updated AI could be toggled on or off.

[Koko Ricky]

Not to be a nagging Nancy, but can anyone point to a console commands to turn off blob shadows (the superficial round shadows, not the gorgeous dynamic lighting) on PC? This is such a perfect remaster and that's literally the only thing I want to change. 

Edited August 17, 2023 by Koko Ricky