Quake II Remastered

[ducon]

I remember a berserker running and falling down in lava in the original game.

Here:

[mhmh]

10 minutes ago, ducon said:

I remember a berserker running and falling down in lava in the original game.

Here:

 

Yes, that was a deliberately constructed set-piece for teaching you some gameplay tricks. It's quite clearly telegraphed from the way you can use the button before you go on the bridge, and the way the Berserker comes at you but keeps distant enough to let you backtrack and trigger the button again. 

 

With the new AI you can almost always goad an enemy into coming at you early, into an area where you have tactical advantage, then pick them off without taking much damage. The old AI was dumber for sure, but the mappers strategically positioned enemies to compensate, and you had to work harder against them.

 

I haven't reached the Outer Courts yet, but at this stage I'm feeling very confident that I couid lure the Tank Commanders into the lava trap without much effort. 

[scalliano]

So the new and improve AI breaks The Reckoning:

The enemies are alerted so early that they can drop down onto the top of this elevator in The Hangars near the Strogg freighter bay, meaning that you can't 

progress without sequence-breaking the level by RJ'ing into the crate you stow away in.

 

This happened to me twice - both on PC and above on PS5. The first time I managed to randomly lure the enemy away from the elevator by pressing the button and backing away, but this is completely hit-and-miss and has a high probability to flummox less experienced players.

[Jayextee]

2 minutes ago, scalliano said:

The enemies are alerted so early that they can drop down onto the top of this elevator in The Hangars near the Strogg freighter bay, meaning that you can't 

progress without sequence-breaking the level by RJ'ing into the crate you stow away in.

 

This happened to me (PC, Steam version), but I was able to jump out of the elevator onto the floor above. So I don't know about "can't progress". It was, however, pretty annoying.

[scalliano]

42 minutes ago, Jayextee said:

 

This happened to me (PC, Steam version), but I was able to jump out of the elevator onto the floor above. So I don't know about "can't progress". It was, however, pretty annoying.

Still needs fixed, though - if you're low on health when trying to clip-jump your way onto the top floor you're more or less screwed.

[Breezeep]

From what I've played of the base Q2 campaign, The thing that annoys me about how they recompiled the maps, including the ones in the expansions, is that they sometimes appear to be way too bright in some areas.

 

 

There's a bunch of stuff that looks better than in the base game, but it's instances like these that just make me wish they just went and redid the lighting entirely for the remaster. I would prefer if they just toned down the brightness of some of the light sources (most notably the sky and lava) so that way it wouldn't look too overly bright.

[Devalaous]

Finished the prison unit today, nearly missed an Adrenaline since the wiki decided they arent important to document extensively, unlike Secrets. The game's lack of difficulty is noticeable, the Supertank died without hitting me once, and I didn't even Quad Damage it. The 6 Berserkers he was paired with were harder.

[Lizardcommando]

I don't know if anyone noticed this yet, but if you play as a female character, when you jump in and out of water and if you start drowning and jump out of the water as you are drowning, it still plays the male character voices.

 

EDIT: I also just got done playing through the final episode, Call of the Machine. I was really impressed with the level design. These levels look amazing. I really like the Quake style/sorta modern style/medieval style maps that you could visit. I was also amazed at how these levels shove swarms of enemies at you compared to how reserved the enemy count in the base campaign and the 2 other map packs were.

 

It's a shame that the Quake 2 mapping community wasn't as lively as classic Doom's or even Quake's mapping community. I am aware of a bunch of gameplay mods like Action Quake, Air Quake and that one mod, Generations, where you could play as BJ Blazkowicz, Doomguy, Quake Ranger and Bitterman and have all of their weapons and power ups from their respective games. But I have never seen anything quite as complex and gorgeous as the maps seen in Call of the Machine.

 

My overall thoughts on Q2 Remastered: It's a really impressive remaster that goes above and beyond of what is expected for a remaster. Not only did they go and remaster the base campaign and the 2 official expansion packs, they also included Quake 2 64 (which was very unexpected) and included a brand new campaign that really ups the game on how you can really push Q2 mapping to a whole new level. The inclusion of the iD Archives with all the concept art and even levels seen in early versions of the game is nothing short of amazing. I really hope more game companies look to Q2 Remastered as the gold standard on how to remaster their games. Konami and Rockstar Games and every other game company out there, take notes: THIS is how you do it! This is how you remaster your older games!

Edited August 22, 2023 by Lizardcommando

[Kinsie]

5 hours ago, Breezeep said:

From what I've played of the base Q2 campaign, The thing that annoys me about how they recompiled the maps, including the ones in the expansions, is that they sometimes appear to be way too bright in some areas.

 

 

There's a bunch of stuff that looks better than in the base game, but it's instances like these that just make me wish they just went and redid the lighting entirely for the remaster. I would prefer if they just toned down the brightness of some of the light sources (most notably the sky and lava) so that way it wouldn't look too overly bright.

I think there's a couple of instances of blown out outdoor lighting that have been confirmed to be bugs by developers on the Quake Mapping Discord. I suspect they'll get another pass in a patch, like the couple of overly-bright areas in the Quake 1 Remaster.

[PKr]

12 hours ago, ducon said:

I remember a berserker running and falling down in lava in the original game.

Here:

This is the place I died in the remastered version of the game... I wanted to lure the berserker out to that bridge and then pull the lever as usual. What happened instead was that he jumped over the entire bridge (I suspect it was a bug as the jump distance was way too large here) and pushed me to the lava pit.

[mhmh]

Just cleared the Big Gun map. I approve of the changes made here, they were badly needed and massively improve the map. 

[Koko Ricky]

On 8/22/2023 at 2:01 AM, Kinsie said:

I think there's a couple of instances of blown out outdoor lighting that have been confirmed to be bugs by developers on the Quake Mapping Discord. I suspect they'll get another pass in a patch, like the couple of overly-bright areas in the Quake 1 Remaster.

I'll have to post some screenshots from my machine, as I mentioned previously in this post that it's extremely dark and contrasty on my end. I prefer it, even though it makes some areas just a tiny bit too dark. Still don't know why it looks like that when others complain about it being too bright. 

[Rudolph]

6 hours ago, mhmh said:

Just cleared the Big Gun map. I approve of the changes made here, they were badly needed and massively improve the map. 

I have not played Quake II in a while. What are the changes exactly?

[mhmh]

3 hours ago, Rudolph said:

I have not played Quake II in a while. What are the changes exactly?

 

Relatively minor but enough to toughen up the map. I'm playing on Easy on the Switch, and this is by comparison to the original PC map. 

 

A Tank was added to the enemies you meet after killing the Hornet (the Hornet fight is still one of the easiest in the game, but that possibly can't be fixed without changing too much). 

 

Some laser beams were added that you need to crouch under while escaping. These make the escape a little tighter for time by slowing you down. 

 

Some visual touch-ups in places. 

 

The cutscene at the end was completely redone. It's no longer just some explosions going off in a big empty box. 

 

 

[Lila Feuer]

Agreed Big Gun got a glowup, honestly all the little additions to the base game are great.

[Professor Hastig]

I am a bit torn about the remaster.

 

While some of the improvements and the new episode are very much appreciated, I cannot say I like the "improved" AI. This is a massive alteration of the game I could have lived without. So I guess my approach here will be to use the remaster mainly for the new content but play the original with one of the existing source ports, which already make the game work quite well on modern hardware.

 

One thing I noticed about FPS games over the years is that better AI does not result in better gameplay. Doom itself is the perfect example for this. The monster AI is as dumb as it comes and yet it makes combat flow perfectly.

 

[Cantleylads]

3 hours ago, Professor Hastig said:

One thing I noticed about FPS games over the years is that better AI does not result in better gameplay. Doom itself is the perfect example for this. The monster AI is as dumb as it comes and yet it makes combat flow perfectly.

 

 

I think it's more about the numbers. Sophisticated AI is needed when enemy numbers are lower.

 

Aside from maybe a tweak to the Berserker's AoE damage, I think the AI helps address Q2's biggest issue in it's single player - the lack of challenge. The AI was far too easy to exploit before.

[Professor Hastig]

34 minutes ago, Cantleylads said:

 

I think it's more about the numbers. Sophisticated AI is needed when enemy numbers are lower.

 

Aside from maybe a tweak to the Berserker's AoE damage, I think the AI helps address Q2's biggest issue in it's single player - the lack of challenge. The AI was far too easy to exploit before.

 

Maybe, maybe not. It's still a change and considering how critical players here are towards (far less invasive) changes in the more advanced Doom source ports it's a bit weird that here it is mostly accepted.

 

[Individualised]

I can't seem to figure out what to do in this area of the Research Labs in Unit 8? I have already pressed all of the buttons in this area but the compass ^{(I know... I didn't expect to use it either but this is my first full playthrough and while I don't really care for hand-holding gameplay I'm still having fun and it helps me get past areas I get stuck in so I don't care)} keeps redirecting me back to this one. The secondary objective just says "Locate Repair facility. Steal commander's head." which doesn't seem to match up?

Edited August 24, 2023 by Individualised

[vyruss]

27 minutes ago, Individualised said:

I can't seem to figure out what to do in this area of the Research Labs in Unit 8? I have already pressed all of the buttons in this area but the compass ^{(I know... I didn't expect to use it either but this is my first full playthrough and while I don't really care for hand-holding gameplay I'm still having fun and it helps me get past areas I get stuck in so I don't care)} keeps redirecting me back to this one. The secondary objective just says "Locate Repair facility. Steal commander's head." which doesn't seem to match up?

[image]

You're currently holding the solution.  Go find some health and armor and rocket jump over there! (in all seriousness I am not sure what the correct approach by level design, been a while since I played this far into the game myself)

[Individualised]

1 minute ago, vyruss said:

You're currently holding the solution.  Go find some health and armor and rocket jump over there! (in all seriousness I am not sure what the correct approach by level design, been a while since I played this far into the game myself)

The gap is jumpable, and I would have already had to jump it to press the switch like I said :P The game wants me to go back for some reason even though there's nothing for me to do there as far as I can tell

Edited August 24, 2023 by Individualised

[mhmh]

The route through this map is confusing. Wander around another bit, you should eventually find a door you haven't been through yet, and the Commander's head is behind it a ways. I'll need to run through it myself to give more precise directions, which will be tomorrow evening at the earliest. 

[D4NUK1]

6 hours ago, Professor Hastig said:

 

Maybe, maybe not. It's still a change and considering how critical players here are towards (far less invasive) changes in the more advanced Doom source ports it's a bit weird that here it is mostly accepted.

 

Doom combat flow it's better aproached that Vainilla Q2, and the changes are something that was in work with iD until they needed to make the code more easy, so if something, IF the technology was there on time, more of less of this AI control, would be done in Vainilla Q2.

[scalliano]

7 hours ago, Individualised said:

I can't seem to figure out what to do in this area of the Research Labs in Unit 8? I have already pressed all of the buttons in this area but the compass ^{(I know... I didn't expect to use it either but this is my first full playthrough and while I don't really care for hand-holding gameplay I'm still having fun and it helps me get past areas I get stuck in so I don't care)} keeps redirecting me back to this one. The secondary objective just says "Locate Repair facility. Steal commander's head." which doesn't seem to match up?

From where you are facing in this screenshot, and presuming you've hit both of those switches already, turn 90 degrees right and carry on. On your right you should now see a door. Go through it and up the lift, kill the Gunners and grab the Commander's Head. Then double back, back up the bridge and follow the route back around. Go through the first door on the left and that path will take you back up to the first level.

[Devalaous]

8 hours ago, Professor Hastig said:

 

Maybe, maybe not. It's still a change and considering how critical players here are towards (far less invasive) changes in the more advanced Doom source ports it's a bit weird that here it is mostly accepted.

 

 

Steam forums on the other hand are full of toxic purists that seemingly want to burn Nightdive to the ground and execute the survivors for changing anything at all, as is the course for Steam.

 

Ive put my playthrough on hold for a while, as it seems both this and ROTT will be getting patched down the line. Might as well preserve the upcoming stuff for when its in a better state

[Lila Feuer]

4 hours ago, Devalaous said:

Steam forums on the other hand are full of toxic purists that seemingly want to burn Nightdive to the ground and execute the survivors for changing anything at all, as is the course for Steam.

Lmao yeah, my "favorite" bit of discourse was some oldhead (presumably) being salty that Nightdive added a completely optional to use compass (that helped me in Ground Zero when I turned myself around a few times despite playing it before mind you) that "n00bs will just use the compass to guide them everywhere and then act like they played Quake." Uh, yeah, they technically did indeed play Quake, compass or not, it shouldn't discredit their efforts to put up with everything else. Such an ass.

[Trov]

On 8/17/2023 at 1:50 PM, Edward850 said:

Quake2 did not have negative gamma, nor would that make much sense as that would crush colours.

I don't mind the remaster's brightness, but this is false.

 

That was true in Quake 1, but not in Quake 2.

 

The remaster's minimum brightness slider value corresponds to q2 vid_gamma 1.0, but quake 2 original exe's brightness slider puts vid_gamma 1.0 near the middle of the slider, not the very left. The lowest selectable value from original q2's brightness slider is vid_gamma 1.3 (higher numbers are darker), which darkens all graphics to be darker than the original assets.

Edited August 25, 2023 by Tarvis

[hfc2x]

On 8/18/2023 at 9:02 AM, Individualised said:

I know Linux in general (i.e. not the Steam Deck) isn't officially supported but thought this crash may be worth reporting anyway:

It seems you got it working, but I was curious about this because the game has worked fine for me with Proton Experimental on Steam since launch. Is this the GOG version? I suppose you ended up using an alternate wine build (like Wine GE Proton) through Lutris?

 

On 8/20/2023 at 12:54 AM, Edward850 said:

We are looking at tweaking some of the changes, however they will not be made into menu options because

If you guys do that, and since it can't be made into an option.. can the quick weapon switch be a deathmatch-only thing? It's really annoying and it's the only thing stopping me from getting this on Switch lol.

[Individualised]

Just now, hfc2x said:

It seems you got it working, but I was curious about this because the game has worked fine for me with Proton Experimental on Steam since launch. Is this the GOG version? I suppose you ended up using an alternate wine build (like Wine GE Proton) through Lutris?

It was the Steam version, and for the record I have had pretty much no issues with it, that was just a random crash I got.

[Edward850]

15 minutes ago, hfc2x said:

If you guys do that, and since it can't be made into an option.. can the quick weapon switch be a deathmatch-only thing? It's really annoying and it's the only thing stopping me from getting this on Switch lol.

There's an option for Quake1 style instant weapon switch in deathmatch, if that's what you're referring to.