What would have happened if Doom was just a sequel to Wolfenstein?

[Karnasis]

Doom was a technological step for the FPS genre, and was something incredibly different from what ID did before, but I always imagined in an alternate universe, what would have happened if John Romero and Carmack didn't think of a good idea at the time and decided to for their next game to just be a sequel to Wolfenstein but with an upgrade to the engine, no demonic monsters but instead demonic people to rip and tear, how would this change impact it's popularity in the 90s, and the design of the game?

 

TL;DR: What would it be like if the IDTech 1 Engine was used to make a Wolfenstein Sequel instead of Doom?

Edited August 25, 2023 by Karnasis
People misunderstood the question slightly.

[Jayextee]

I've often thought about this very same 'what if' scenario; should the DOOM/idTech engine have been used for a direct Wolfenstein 3D sequel utilising pretty much everything the (vanilla) engine offers, what would it be?

Like, a step above what Laz Rojas' WolfenDOOM projects offered, good though they are.

Somebody community project this shit for me just so I can play it. Thanks. :P

[banjiepixel]

I would assume that it would had been mostly Doom with just different skin. There are so many parts in Doom that were pretty much direct response to issues that Wolfenstein had as a game. More advanced levels to make them easier and more fun to explore and alot of focus on enemies using projectile attacks to stop the game being just constant quickdraw contest. The setting however could had been pretty limiting so we would had probably ended getting mostly Wolfenstein versions stuff found in first episode of Doom.

 

Scifi and demonic themes also have much broad appeal than killing nazis and WW2 so it would had probably been much less popular game than Doom ended up being.

[SiFi270]

wildweasel's Nazis mod always felt to me like it came from a universe where id decided, "new engine, same IP."

[Sneezy McGlassFace]

I think that moving from grid to free form sectors was inevitable. Perfect time and place for doom to make such a big cultural impact. 

 

If the wolf grid based engine was extended for another game, I think we may get something like rott or shadowcaster. 

[natashanightmare]

What if Quake 1 would have been Doom 3 is also a interesting ''what if'' scenario :)

[OniriA]

There would be more nazis in Doom and a Wolfenstein easter egg weapon (MP40 or Luger perhaps).

 

Jawohl!

Edited August 25, 2023 by OniriA

[Mr Masker]

What if Wolfenstein 3D was Catacomb 3-D 2?

Edited August 25, 2023 by Mr Masker

[LouigiVerona]

3 hours ago, Karnasis said:

Doom was a technological step for the FPS genre, and was something incredibly different from what ID did before, but I always imagined in an alternate universe, what would have happened if John Romero and Carmack didn't think of a good idea at the time and decided to for their next game to just be a sequel to Wolfenstein but with an upgrade to the engine, no demonic monsters but instead demonic people to rip and tear, how would this change impact it's popularity in the 90s, and the design of the game?

 

I actually think it wasn't incredibly different from what ID did before.

 

In many ways, I think Commander Keen is what really defined ID as a company. A game based on collecting items and getting to the exit while shooting down enemies. A game the variability of which comes from arranging basic elements into levels.

 

In many ways, Doom is Commander Keen, but in 3D and with a different theme. In fact, people were complaining that Commander Keen is violent, because it keeps the corpses of killed monsters. Doom just made it even more graphic.

 

There's also an interesting tidbit from Romero, who was explaining that initially they didn't understand the power that variable floor heights had given them. They started by creating corridors and rooms, but later realized that creating unrealistic weird spaces is what the new engine allows them to do.

 

And then you are still collecting items. The only difference here is that you are no longer collecting things for high scores. This was a feature of early video games, where score was the most straightforward competitive thing. Wolfenstein has it. In Doom you've got enough items to pick up, like all the various ammo packs, that high score is no longer needed to fill the void.

 

In other words, I would side with those commenters who are saying that Doom ultimately was the next logical step, at least from a basic tech/design perspective. Obviously, they also executed it well. And maybe that's the most important thing!

[Jayextee]

Yes. DOOM was the next logical step. That's why it happened. BUT WHAT IF WOLFENSTEIN

[KubaloBlackMT]

No Teleporters probably, unless they did a dimension jumping Nazi cult thing.

[Cardboard Marty]

This is not an attempt at "self-advertising", but I am working on a project with @DrPyspy that is our take on this what-if scenario!

 

 

 

I imagine that if they proceeded with a sequel to Wolf3D, we probably would've indeed gotten something like Rise of the Triad. Which, funny enough, was supposed to be Wolfenstein 3D Part II! Probably wouldn't have been as weird as ROTT ended up being, but who knows! I think the change over to the sci-fi setting pushed for a lot of cool ideas such as teleporters, plasma rifles, etc etc. I don't think the game would've had nearly the cultural impact or longevity that Doom had. The setting, hell imagery, colorful cast of monsters, and the WEAPONS all work together to create something highly memorable that I feel the Wolfenstein franchise mostly lacked until Return to Castle Wolfenstein years and years later.

Edited August 26, 2023 by Cardboard Marty

[tornado potato]

When it comes to Wolfenstein themed mods I feel there like two extremes: either there are faithful recreations that play basically the same as the original, or they are very advanced mods with modern game tropes, realistic war sounds, etc. So yeah I also wonder sometimes how a Wolf3d game somewhere in the middle looks like.

Edited August 25, 2023 by tornado potato

[Griffonki]

Hitscan hell.

[Lila Feuer]

We'd be Wolfworld, operated by Andrew "Bratwurst" Stine.

[OceanMadman]

something similar to Operation Rheingold I guess.

[LoatharMDPhD]

3 hours ago, KubaloBlackMT said:

No Teleporters probably, unless they did a dimension jumping Nazi cult thing.

here's the nazi science facility with the teleportation experiments... For Doom 2 In Song Only CP.

EvilIncarnateMod1.zip

[LoatharMDPhD]

2 hours ago, Cardboard Marty said:

 

I imagine that if they proceeded with a sequel to Wolf3D, we probably would've indeed gotten something like Rise of the Triad. Which, funny enough, was supposed to be Wolfenstein 3D Part II!

..wouldn't that be part 3? Spear is part 2...

[DannyMan]

I'm guessing it would be more something like Spear of Destiny (demonic ritual and stuff.)

[Ash4ash]

It...

Is though...

BJ (hahahahaha) is the players grand (or great grand?) father.

[Jayextee]

2 hours ago, LoatharMDPhD said:

..wouldn't that be part 3? Spear is part 2...

Ackchewally Spear's the prequel, so part 2 still works. And I still want it.

[Herr Dethnout]

It would be Rise of The Triad.

 

 

Your welcome.

[Jayextee]

No. No no no, no NO.

What I think OP is wondering, and definitely what I'd love to have seen, is if DOOM's trajectory was instead to use the idTech 1 engine to make a Wolfenstein 3D sequel (again, not the same-engine prequel that was Spear of Destiny) with all of the bells and whistles we associate with DOOM.

And I wouldn't rule out teleportation like some of the above posters; occultism had already been established in the universe, and teleportation could definitely play into that.

[Karnasis]

21 minutes ago, Jayextee said:

No. No no no, no NO.

What I think OP is wondering, and definitely what I'd love to have seen, is if DOOM's trajectory was instead to use the idTech 1 engine to make a Wolfenstein 3D sequel (again, not the same-engine prequel that was Spear of Destiny) with all of the bells and whistles we associate with DOOM.

And I wouldn't rule out teleportation like some of the above posters; occultism had already been established in the universe, and teleportation could definitely play into that.

Yeah, that is exactly what I mean. Also, the teleporters could be Nazis stealing technology from some ancient organization, like the plot of Wolfenstein: The New Order or something.

 

4 hours ago, Griffonki said:

Hitscan hell.

 

Maybe there could be some Nazis that shoot plasma ball projectile with some Megaman-like gun or something, to prevent becoming that. And some more elaborate enemies could be mechs or robots. Or it could just be Nazi occultism.

Edited August 25, 2023 by Karnasis

[Lila Feuer]

Ironically doubling down on the occult stuff in a Doom engine Wolf3D sequel may've resulted in Doom eventually showing up, but being a spinoff of Wolf3D since it's set in the future and focuses solely on demons and hell.

[129thVisplane]

i had once been thinking about a mod in which all the nazis that BJ killed go to hell, take it over, brainwash the demons, turn all the demon imagery into swastikas, and BJ has to go down there after he dies and kills them dead for real. maybe we would've gotten something like that. or maybe a UAC stand-in nazi corporation goes to mars and unearths ancient demon ruins or, in true history channel fashion, a colony of nazi aliens lmao

[Maximum Matt]

If it were a sequel (which I believe would be cheekily titled Wolf 4D) there would have to include projectile enemies, but what would the nazis throw? Not grenades surely, bouncing mechanics were difficult enough for Quake in '96.  Rocks? Treasure?  Bones? Chicken drumsticks? Dog shite? The mind boggles.  

But they definitely would've kept the Death Cam^tm in, that's fer damn sure

 

[G19Doom]

I imagine it would’ve been called Beyond Wolfenstein 3D. It would’ve been more like a reboot using the new engine vs a direct sequel I would assume as well. 
 

I think if they went this direction the doom engine itself would’ve been a bit different though, for better or for worse. 
 

Oh, and ROTT probably never would’ve existed, and if that happened then Shadow Warrior and/or Duke Nukem 3D may have came out sooner and been more like some of their prototypes. 

Edited August 26, 2023 by G19Doom

[tornado potato]

23 hours ago, Cardboard Marty said:

This is not an attempt at "self-advertising", but I am working on a project with @DrPyspy that is our take on this what-if scenario!

 

https://twitter.com/CardboardMarty/status/1542181591350403072

 

Hey that looks cool, but I don't know if it's Twitter sucking for me or what but I can't watch the video properly, the image feeezes and can only hear the audio, have you uploaded it anywhere else? 

[Cardboard Marty]

43 minutes ago, tornado potato said:

Hey that looks cool, but I don't know if it's Twitter sucking for me or what but I can't watch the video properly, the image feeezes and can only hear the audio, have you uploaded it anywhere else? 

It used to play fine but recent changes on that end have made it a bit janky. I reuploaded it to Youtube and edited my post!