Embryo: where each map is smaller than the last

[Mario2560]

Hmmm, really cool idea, i’m the friend of @MrBlaskovitz, could i take slot 20?

[signaturereverie]

oh no i didnt see at first that map15 was claimed just before me . could i have map14 then ?

 

[Moustachio]

The rules for music will stay as they are then. Mapper's choice all the way.

 

18 hours ago, TJG1289 said:

Should the WAD's difficulty progression still be normal, or can we make a map as easy or hard as we want regardless of where it's placed? I'm not planning on making anything super hard, but I want to make sure before making something that could be hard for a map 2

I would hope that the challenge naturally increases from the space restriction, but I would like the earlier maps (1-5) to be on the easier side. Say, early-Plutonia level. Maps after that can go crazy, and I do envision some later maps being uniquely challenging.

 

14 hours ago, Tangra666 said:

@Moustachio , do we get to choose a custom sky? I'm already planning my map, and for what i have in mind, i really, really don't want the Doom 2 city skyline.

I'll allow Boom sky transfers. Feel free to use more than one sky in a map if you'd like. Just post your skies as PNGs either in your submission post or in the zip/wad file.

 

@ViolentBeetle I got you at MAP25, which coincidentally is 1024x1024.

Edited August 29, 2023 by Moustachio

[TJG1289]

38 minutes ago, Moustachio said:

I would hope that the challenge naturally increases from the space restriction, but I would like the earlier maps (1-5) to be on the easier side. Say, early-Plutonia level. Maps after that can go crazy, and I do envision some later maps being uniquely challenging.

 

Sounds good! That's what I was thinking for an early map, so I'll keep it around that difficulty. 

[PRO-RC]

I can take Map11, It's the one before Map12 I think?

[MrBlaskovitz]

Hey Moustachio!

Here's MAP19 ------> MAP19 (Mediafire)

[Moustachio]

Thanks @MrBlaskovitz! I actually like the map a lot visually. The office building floor has a lot of charm and uses the Doom II textures well. It reminds me a lot of Going Down, so if you weren't at all inspired by that already, go check that out!

 

Some feedback:

• Texture misalignments under the windows inside the room with the yellow key.
• The map is very easy because the fights are all very straightforward. I was excited to see some more fodder start spawning in, but I ended up just leaving them behind the blue key door (which they could not open). The windows to that room never open either, so the zombiemen are of little threat when left in there.
• You can make a jump outside of that window at the end of the hallway by running from the desk. Make the windows to the outside space impassable to avoid this.
  • You can also jump into the room where the blue key is from the desk, but I like that part of the level so you should keep it.

Overall, I had fun playing it, and it is passable. However, I do think lots more can be done with the space you have. I would suggest going off and doing some other maps and then coming back to this map after about a month or two. You'll see a whole new world of possibilities.

 

If you want some ideas now, however:

• The space outside the map isn't really used. Try having some enemies fly in, or be placed outside. Make more windows to the outside that open up and leave the player with less cover from all the hitscanners.
• Throw some beefier encounters & weapons in there. Don't be afraid to make it too challenging for yourself. The real trick is to find a map that is incredibly challenging for yourself, but you're still having fun playtesting it.
• Look up some of the cool stuff you can do with Boom! The incremental increase in complexity from Doom to Boom is enough to open up a world of possibilities that are simply impossible in vanilla Doom.
  • Voodoo doll conveyor belts: You can create a second Doomguy that is basically a dummy version of the player. You can then use linedef action 252/253 to move the voodoo doll Doomguy across some more lines for you, triggering effects in the map. You can use this for a rudimentary form of scripting that is fully Boom compatible.
    • You can put a door or wall in front of the voodoo doll and stop it from crossing certain lines until the door is opened. Use this to make effects trigger upon hitting a switch. You can use this to make switches do multiple things at once.
  • Silent teleports: You can use silent teleport linedef action 244 to silently teleport something to another linedef. This can spawn monsters silently into an area.
    • If you make a dummy sector with a conveyor belt containing monsters, you can spawn the monster back into an area while asleep, allowing you to spring some clever traps.
  • Infinite voodoo doll conveyor: Put a silent teleport at the end of a voodoo doll conveyor that teleports the doll back to the start. Now your actions can be triggered on a loop.
    • Using a door in front of the doll triggered by a repeatable switch, you can make actions trigger over and over again, or with a set of rules.
  • Sequenced lights: Using the voodoo doll, have it scroll over linedef type 81 and make sure the lines affect sectors that are: at brightness 0, have effect 8 (light glows) on them. The lights will flash and then fade out to black. Make an infinite conveyor with a voodoo doll crossing a row of lines that trigger these lights. You can make the lights blink in cool patterns.

And that's just the tip of the iceberg. Not all of these may apply to MAP19 obviously, but they are fun to play with and really wow people.

 

Finally, I think we should set a format for submissions in the future. I'd like for future map submissions to be formatted like this:

 

Quote

"HERE'S MY MAP, MOUSTACHIO" + more comments

 

[thumbnail image if you have it]

 

MAPXX: NAME OF MAP

Music: MIDI NAME + SONGWRITER

Sky: WHERE DID YOU GET YOUR SKY TEXTURE

Tested with: DSDA-DOOM AT COMPLEVEL 9 BECAUSE I READ THE RULES

 

[more screenshots can go in a spoiler here]

 

Edited August 29, 2023 by Moustachio

[MrBlaskovitz]

HERE'S MY MAP, MOUSTACHIO!

I fixed, altered and added some stuff. Hope you like it! :3

 

 

 

MAP19: Heaven Can Wait

Music: Castlevania Curse of Darkness - Cordova Town   by:   Idk?

Sky: default DOOM2 city sky

Tested with: Crispy Doom and PrBoom+ (with -complevel 9)

 

 

 

         MAP19 ------------->>>  Another Mediafire Link

PS;

Don't forget to update the download link at the map list

Edited August 29, 2023 by MrBlaskovitz
because I said so

[Ash4ash]

have the music just be D_SHAWN

Mapforcommun.zip

[Moustachio]

@Ash4ash can you please follow the submission template above so that I know what to call your map?

[Ash4ash]

15 minutes ago, Moustachio said:

@Ash4ash can you please follow the submission template above so that I know what to call your map?

just call it "Dead Simple at home:"

[Moustachio]

@Ash4ash I can't accept this map without some major revisions. I know I said mappers of all skill are welcome, but you have to be willing to put in the effort to make an interesting map if you want it to be fun. The gameplay here is very paper thin, and it comes off more like a troll level or a genuine myfirstmap.wad than an actual attempt at utilizing the space. If you're not willing to put in the effort to make it more interesting, I may have to free up your slot for someone else.

[Ash4ash]

Just now, Moustachio said:

@Ash4ash I can't accept this map without some major revisions. I know I said mappers of all skill are welcome, but you have to be willing to put in the effort to make an interesting map if you want it to be fun. The gameplay here is very paper thin, and it comes off more like a troll level or a genuine myfirstmap.wad than an actual attempt at utilizing the space. If you're not willing to put in the effort to make it more interesting, I may have to free up your slot for someone else.

thats fine if you free up the space, I choose a slot way to big lol

[Moustachio]

And with that, MAP07 is open.

 

@MrBlaskovitz Honestly, this version feels a little bit like a downgrade. I think there's not really a whole lot changed about this version that makes it better than v1. In a lot of ways it's actually worse. I noticed that no enemies teleport in after picking up the yellow key now. The blue key is just strewn about on the floor instead of on a desk like in the original. The texture misalignments are still there, and I've noticed that the floor flats are inconsistent and sometimes the default floor flat. This led me to notice that there isn't a ton of height variation either. I know it's an office floor, but Going Down really showcases how you can push the space outside of the box in a surreal way.

 

I don't mean to be harsh because I think this level has a lot going for it. The doomcute is really cool, and I like the general flow of it. I just think there's a lot more potential to be squeezed out of it. Come back after a little while and you may get some new ideas. :)

 

The chaingunner outside the window was definitely a good move. More of that please.

Edited August 30, 2023 by Moustachio

[Tangra]

@MrBlaskovitz I tried your map, and while i think it has a lot of potential, as it is right now, it looks like an unfinished map. Just the texture alignment alone will improve it dramatically. Moustachio pointed that already, and gave you some good tips, better than i could give. But there are a few things i want to add. What i think should be one of your first priorities in your next revision is the ceiling lights. Not a single one of them i aligned properly, and you use them dozens of times across the map. They stick out immediately as you boot the map, and they are very off-putting.

 

Spoiler

 

 

It's incredible that not even one of these lights is aligned by accident. There are other little unpolished elements that you need to pay attention to... like, notice in the pic, at the bottom of the door that leads to the restroom, you left a wood flat under the frame, and i doubt this is an artistic choice. But to go back to the lights, just go into (what was it called?) "ceiling texture view mode" and drag each light sector until the light texture is aligned properly, like this:

 

Spoiler

 

Now, in this case, in order to align them, their position got off-centered in the corridor. If that's bothering you, you can change the position or the shape of the corridor, so it will look more aesthetically pleasing... or you can make a second roll of lights next to the original one, like that:

 

Spoiler

 

Sorry, i don't like criticizing other people's works, hope you understand that I'm just trying to help. A little attention to detail goes a long way, and it's not something that requires special skills, or years of experience.

Edited August 30, 2023 by Tangra666

[Moustachio]

@Tangra666 a very helpful post for feedback, thank you for participating! One thing to add however is that Boom does not actually support floor & ceiling texture alignment, that is more a GZDoom feature. The only way to align those ceiling textures would be to actually align the sector to the texture in the editor.

 

Unless Boom supports aligning them somehow and I’ve never noticed. It really should considering scrolling floors are a thing.

[Tangra]

1 minute ago, Moustachio said:

@Tangra666 a very helpful post for feedback, thank you for participating! One thing to add however is that Boom does not actually support floor & ceiling texture alignment, that is more a GZDoom feature. The only way to align those ceiling textures would be to actually align the sector to the texture in the editor.

 

Unless Boom supports aligning them somehow and I’ve never noticed. It really should considering scrolling floors are a thing.

 

Yes, maybe i didn't use the right wording. I meant in 2D mode, if you press the "view ceiling texture", and then just drag the sectors to where the lights will be aligned/fit inside the sector, that's how i did it in my example screenshot, which is in Boom format. I forgot to mention that each lamp sector should be 64x64 for them to fit perfectly in.

[Moustachio]

Ahh yes, that is correct! Sorry, I thought you were referring to UDMF’s flat alignment feature.

[Raith138]

I will warn right now that this will be my first ever map made in doom builder X so it may not be up to par with my normal.

[DynamiteKaitorn]

QQ: Is there a deadline for this project?

[Arno]

I have a question about coop play: should each map contain coop starts?

I think it can be fun to have this supported, but I can also imagine It's going to be hard to make coop work in a playable area of 96 x 96.

Edited August 30, 2023 by Arno

[Lina]

Jot me down for map21 if it's still open.

[Moustachio]

4 hours ago, DynamiteKaitorn said:

QQ: Is there a deadline for this project?

No deadline for now. Want to give people time to map at their own pace.

 

4 hours ago, Arno said:

I have a question about coop play: should each map contain coop starts?

I think it can be fun to have this supported, but I can also imagine It's going to be hard to make coop work in a playable area of 96 x 96.

That’s a good point. Maybe each player can have an area of 96x96 for that one.

[SCF]

MAP26: Empty Machine

Music: SA-X Arrival theme from Metroid Fusion (according to the Sunder credits)

Sky: N/A

Tested with: DSDA-DOOM AT COMPLEVEL 9 BECAUSE I READ THE RULES

 

Download

 

Screenshot:

Spoiler

 

Map is in slot 1 for easier testing. I can tweak the difficulty if it's too much. Lower difficulty settings are implemented as well.

 

It's technically possible to leave the designated play area. During the first phase, there's an invisible barrier in the windows to prevent an archvile blast from launching you outside, and the barrier lowers after you hit the second switch so the cacos can fly through. So if you really want, you could leave the archvile alive, start the next phase, and then do a vile jump (into a 20 damage death pit). Hopefully that's fine, because I don't think there's another solution without MBF21.

[Philnemba]

This sounds like something I can do for September as a way for me to fully get back into mapping so put me on Map 07 slot :)

[BeachThunder]

8 hours ago, SCF said:

MAP26: Empty Machine

Music: SA-X Arrival theme from Metroid Fusion (according to the Sunder credits)

Sky: N/A

Tested with: DSDA-DOOM AT COMPLEVEL 9 BECAUSE I READ THE RULES

 

Download

 

Screenshot:

  Hide contents

 

Map is in slot 1 for easier testing. I can tweak the difficulty if it's too much. Lower difficulty settings are implemented as well.

 

It's technically possible to leave the designated play area. During the first phase, there's an invisible barrier in the windows to prevent an archvile blast from launching you outside, and the barrier lowers after you hit the second switch so the cacos can fly through. So if you really want, you could leave the archvile alive, start the next phase, and then do a vile jump (into a 20 damage death pit). Hopefully that's fine, because I don't think there's another solution without MBF21.

This is really good. I guess I probably need to make my MAP28 harder than this...

[Tangra]

18 hours ago, SCF said:

MAP26: Empty Machine

Music: SA-X Arrival theme from Metroid Fusion (according to the Sunder credits)

Sky: N/A

Tested with: DSDA-DOOM AT COMPLEVEL 9 BECAUSE I READ THE RULES

 

Very impressive visually and combatwise starts really strong, keeps you on the move, and i was having a blast up until the third fight (after you press the switch where the megasphere is), where it turns into a cramped slaughter map. I couldn't find any way to crowd control the enemies there. You can't deal with that fight with just the SSG, and the rocket launcher you can use before it gets too tight, but it inevitably, at some point there's not enough room to shoot rockets. Did i miss a Plasma gun somewhere? You just have to pray and hope for low damage dice rolls to get out alive, and i'm yet to have such luck in 5 failed runs. I will do a few more attempts, i want to see if i'm doing something wrong.

Edited August 31, 2023 by Tangra666

[SCF]

13 minutes ago, Tangra666 said:

 

Very impressive visually and combatwise starts really strong, keeps you on the move, and i was having a blast up until the third fight (after you press the switch where the megasphere is), where it turns into a cramped slaughter map. I couldn't find any way to crowd control the enemies there. You can't deal with that fight with just the SSG, and the rocket launcher you can use before it gets too tight, but it inevitably, at some point there's not enough room to shoot rockets. Did i miss a Plasma gun somewhere? You just have to pray and hope for low damage dice rolls to get out alive, and i'm yet to have such luck in 5 failed runs. I will do a few more attempts, i want to see if i'm doing something wrong.

 

Here is a demo if you're interested: embryo_map26_scf.zip

 

It took two attempts to record, but obviously it wasn't my first time playing the map. In testing, I've also done the last fight from the opposite side of the room, in which case you have to instantly blast the arachnos when they spawn to create space (or block their teleport destination).

 

I'd have no problems taking it down a notch if that makes it more fun, but I'll await Moustachio's feedback first. It's one of those fight designs where it was originally way too easy, then I reworked it and it was suddenly way too much, and then I kept removing enemies until it felt manageable (the previous version had one more arachnotron, one more pain elemental, and 3 more cacodemons...)

[BeachThunder]

@Moustachio So, um, are we allowing jumping in this? I'll need to rethink some things if jumping is allowed.

[Moustachio]

@BeachThunder No jumping or crouching allowed.

 

@SCF @Tangra666 I have officially completed MAP26. Here are two demos: my first attempts and my successful run. I did feel like I had enough room to take on the rest of the enemies by the end, but I chickened out to secure my victory. Those demons can fuck off.

 

I thought it was a really fun map. It's super short, but it hits like a Mike Tyson punch. And yeah that midi is killer. Visuals are top notch, and I feel like the space is fully utilized. I'm not sure if you can get up top of those computers for any hidden stuff, but it might break the map either way. I found no bugs either, but I will make sure to do a UV max run and verify that everything works.

 

All mappers in slots 21-30, I think this would be a good map to check out. Maybe you can grab a new idea you hadn't thought of before. Thank you very much for participating, SCF!

Edited August 31, 2023 by Moustachio