Embryo: where each map is smaller than the last

[solidago]

This is a really cool concept! Could I take the MAP06 slot?

[Tangra]

2 hours ago, Moustachio said:

 

 

@SCF @Tangra666 I have officially completed MAP26. Here are two demos: my first attempts and my successful run. I did feel like I had enough room to take on the rest of the enemies by the end, but I chickened out to secure my victory.

 

 

3 hours ago, SCF said:

Here is a demo if you're interested: embryo_map26_scf.zip

 

I have to try harder then. :D

[Tangra]

@Moustachio , here's my submission... I wanted to do another speedmap, but this time the theme got the better of me and i spend a few extra hours to try and make something more interesting. I only tested it 3 times, only once in DSDA-Doom, because i can never get used to it. I want to do more DSDA testing, but i have a busy day ahead of me, and after putting so much tought and planning into this map, i'm eager to share it. Hope i didn't miss anything game breaking. Difficulty levels are implemented. I forgot to add multiplayer starts, but if it's necessary, i will do it tomorrow alongside adjustments from feedback.

 

Map: "The Wailing Fields" (Slot 17)

Music: King Diamond - At the Gates

Sky: SKYHX1, from 32in24-15.tex.v2.wad

Tested in: GZDoom and DSDA-Doom

LINK: https://www.mediafire.com/file/gbqu1mie1ot5abd/Embryo_Map17_TWF.wad/file

Edited September 1, 2023 by Tangra666

[BeachThunder]

1 hour ago, Tangra666 said:

@Moustachio , here's my submission... I wanted to do another speedmap, but this time the theme got the better of me and i spend a few extra hours to try and make something more interesting. I only tested it 3 times, only once in DSDA-Doom, because i can never get used to it. I want to do more DSDA testing, but i have a busy day ahead of me, and after putting so much tought and planning into this map, i'm eager to share it. Hope i didn't miss anything game breaking. Difficulty levels are implemented. I forgot to add multiplayer starts, but if it's necessary, i will do it tomorrow alongside adjustments from feedback.

 

Map: "The Wailing Fields" (Slot 17)

Music: King Diamond - At the Gates

Sky: SKYHX1, from 32in24-15.tex.v2.wad

Tested in: GZDoom and DSDA-Doom

LINK: https://www.mediafire.com/file/gbqu1mie1ot5abd/Embryo_Map17_TWF.wad/file

Architecturally, this is fantastic. I really liked this level, for the most part. But it also feels like it's towards the extreme end in terms of difficulty - I had a pretty rough time getting through this on HMP. And even on HNTR, there's still 7 archviles...

Also, did you intentionally go for a Star of David in the room behind the red bars, or was it supposed to be a pentagram? Because those are very different things...

[Moustachio]

@Tangra666 I think it's a good map! I will echo the sentiment that it is pretty high on the difficulty scale. I think on UV it is manageable as is, especially with saves. I would just make sure HNTR and HMP difficulties should be manageable by beginners and casual players respectively. I liked the way the architecture not only expanded, but also wrapped around on itself and closed off parts of the level. That last fight where the start area closed off really made me change up how I used the terrain to fight. Really great stuff! I was able to find both secrets and collect all items, but I was missing 3 enemies that I could not find by the end of the level. I'm sure you could spot them at the end of my successful demo using iddt.

 

Demos

 

And if that is a Star of David, I think it should be changed to just a plain ol' pentagram. I would like to avoid any unfortunate connotations.

Edited September 1, 2023 by Moustachio

[Tangra]

Thanks for the feedback, really appreciate it.

 

I will balance the lower difficulties more. The missing enemies are due to two faulty closets, that i already figured out how to fix, and i will make a new update tomorrow with the rest of the improvements. I will also add a few health packs in the central room with the candles, as there is nothing else there and it feels empty itemwise. About the archviles, I think i only removed two of them for the lower difficulties, because most are turrets and can't move, but i can see how this can still be rough. I feel HMP should still be challenging, but below that i will lower the heat significantly.

 

The star symbol... there's no hidden messages behind it, i just wanted a star symbol there, but gosh, i hate drawing pentagrams, i can never make them symmetrical. What is the trick with that? :D If i can't make a proper pentagram, i will replace the current star with some other symbol that i can manage. Just give me time up until tomorrow or in a few hours tonight.

 

By the way, no areas in the level get locked off for good. The bars that raise on the walkway that goes around the map, lower once you get past the secret thing that lowers the soulsphere, so you can go back and collect it before the big fight at the end where it's much more difficult to reach the sphere unharmed. The bars that close off the starter room, lower down once you enter the room with the star symbol. That is done in case you beat the map without finding the secrets and want to keep exploring and search for them in peace.

 

EDIT: @Moustachio cool demos, you mastered the map in no time. I saw you saved up a lot of rockets by the end... and i was worried if i have placed enough ammo in the map. Let me know if you want me to remove a few boxes here and there. 

Edited September 1, 2023 by Tangra666

[BeachThunder]

39 minutes ago, Tangra666 said:

Thanks for the feedback, really appreciate it.

 

I will balance the lower difficulties more. The missing enemies are due to two faulty closets, that i already figured out how to fix, and i will make a new update tomorrow with the rest of the improvements. I will also add a few health packs in the central room with the candles, as there is nothing else there and it feels empty itemwise. About the archviles, I think i only removed two of them for the lower difficulties, because most are turrets and can't move, but i can see how this can still be rough. I feel HMP should still be challenging, but below that i will lower the heat significantly.

 

The star symbol... there's no hidden messages behind it, i just wanted a star symbol there, but gosh, i hate drawing pentagrams, i can never make them symmetrical. What is the trick with that? :D If i can't make a proper pentagram, i will replace the current star with some other symbol that i can manage. Just give me time up until tomorrow or in a few hours tonight.

 

By the way, no areas in the level get locked off for good. The bars that raise on the walkway that goes around the map, lower once you get past the secret thing that lowers the soulsphere, so you can go back and collect it before the big fight at the end where it's much more difficult to reach the sphere unharmed. The bars that close off the starter room, lower down once you enter the room with the star symbol. That is done in case you beat the map without finding the secrets and want to keep exploring and search for them in peace.

I don't know if you know or not, but if you're using UDB (and probably a bunch of other editors too), you can click the grid size icon at the bottom of the screen, then select "customize..." to add a background image that you can then use trace over.

 

[Tangra]

30 minutes ago, BeachThunder said:

I don't know if you know or not, but if you're using UDB (and probably a bunch of other editors too), you can click the grid size icon at the bottom of the screen, then select "customize..." to add a background image that you can then use trace over.

 

Thanks, i know about this feature... i'm just terrible at drawing things at an angle that requires precise symmetry.

[MrBlaskovitz]

There @Moustachio, I did it.

I changed things you said were at fault, the texture alignment and some of the geometry and placement.

 

Also I added more buildings.

 

Here's the WAD --> MAP19.rar

Don't forget to change the download in the list.

 

Edited September 1, 2023 by MrBlaskovitz

[Tangra]

Map Update 2:

 

Map: "The Wailing Fields" (Slot 17)

Music: King Diamond - At the Gates

Sky: SKYHX1, from 32in24-15.tex.v2.wad

Tested in: GZDoom and DSDA-Doom

LINK: https://www.mediafire.com/file/k9zjaghb7la2h1w/Embryo_Map17_TWF_V2.wad/file

 

Difficulty for HMP and Easy mode rebalanced - HNTR should be very manageable now, as almost 1/3 of the monsters are reduced on it. Four stimpacks added in the big candle room in all difficulty levels. The star symbol in the exit room is now changed, and i didn't use the frame of the first one for it, i've redrawn it from scratch to make it as different as possible. Fixed the broken teleport closets, all monsters now spawn in as intended (in about 4-5 tests so far). Also did a few small cosmetic improvements, but they're almost unnoticeable. There was one misaligned texture in a dark corner, very hard to spot, hope there's no more of these.

[taufan99]

8 hours ago, BeachThunder said:

I don't know if you know or not, but if you're using UDB (and probably a bunch of other editors too), you can click the grid size icon at the bottom of the screen, then select "customize..." to add a background image that you can then use trace over.

 

Huh, never knew this method before. I guess that's how people got to draw stuff on their maps. Thanks either way!

[Lina]

7 hours ago, Tangra666 said:

 

Thanks, i know about this feature... i'm just terrible at drawing things at an angle that requires precise symmetry.

In case of pentagrams (or any shape based on a circle), you can use the curve tool to make a circle segmented into fractions, and then just connect the vertices you want and merge/erase what you don't need.
 

Spoiler

 

[SCF]

4 hours ago, Tangra said:

Map Update 2:

 

Nice map, it feels a lot bigger than it actually is and makes great use of its space. I enjoyed it even though I died too many times trying to get an FDA. Here's the demo, final attempt starts about halfway through:

 

Embryo_Map17_TWF_V2_scf_fda.zip

 

Spoiler

I died on the red key door fight a couple of times before I realized I could just walk away.

 

Technically I didn't finish the map, but there was only one enemy left when I got destroyed by the bars I already knew were closed. It looks like I could've exited early after getting the blue key, but I wanted to see the whole map.

 

I got very lost after hitting the switch behind the yellow door, but I think that was just me missing the obvious.

 

[Tangra]

 

@SCF thank you for this! This is really good, and you exposed some major flaws, that i need to fix right now. The fact that you can skip the final fight after you get the blue key.... ah, how much i hate when i overlook stuff like this, you should've seen the shock on my face. :D Also, the archviles falling off the platform in the blue key fight, which makes them needlessly annoying to deal with, i will block them on top of that platform.

[Tangra]

@Moustachio hopefully this will be the last update... fixed the issues discovered by @SCF

 

Update 3:

Map: "The Wailing Fields" (Slot 17)

Music: King Diamond - At the Gates

Sky: SKYHX1, from 32in24-15.tex.v2.wad

Tested in: GZDoom and DSDA-Doom

LINK: https://www.mediafire.com/file/4etejdovaamk7aj/Embryo_Map17_TWF_V3.wad/file

[Lina]

@Moustachio 

Map: Gutmachine (MAP21)

Music: 'Docked In' by Varis Alpha

Sky: DS2SKY13 from Mechadon's box o' skies

Tested in: DSDA Doom

Link: https://www.mediafire.com/file/ltmica8or1p1ts7/Embryo_MAP21_-_Gutmachine.wad/file
Screenshot: 

Spoiler

I need to do another pass for the visuals, but the progression and general vibe are all in place. I'm waiting for my playtester friend, so I figured I'll post this version here for feedback as well. Currently UV-only; I only tested to make sure the progression works and there's enough ammo. Difficulty might be off-base for the second half.
Known issue: There's a switch that doesn't give feedback when pressed, but is still functional. Not sure what's up with it.

[Moustachio]

@Lina A little busy this weekend, so can't write up a whole review and fully complete the map, but here's a first attempt demo for MAP21.

 

I will have more time tomorrow and Monday to keep on reviewing MAP21 & the updates to MAP17 & MAP19.

Edited September 3, 2023 by Moustachio

[DerBlanca]

 

Working on an earthy Pueblo-techbase, gonna take me a while because the music I want is so obscure there is no MIDI for it so I'll have to sequence it myself. 

[Raith138]

2 hours ago, DerBlanca said:

 

Working on an earthy Pueblo-techbase, gonna take me a while because the music I want is so obscure there is no MIDI for it so I'll have to sequence it myself. 

Looks like congo

[Lina]

https://www.mediafire.com/file/f6s0e0resbwk8dz/Embryo_MAP21_-_Gutmachine_-_Revision_1.wad/file
@Moustachio
Made some updates before the full test after watching the first attempt and some playtesting.
- More ammo in general
- Slightly more health
- Changed a few monster teleporter timings/locations
- Monster-blocking linedefs to prevent perched monsters getting boom'd (I tested in cl21 like a klutz)
- Fixed the switch that wasn't giving feedback
- Texture alignment and visual fixes/tweaks

[DerBlanca]

Or I guess it won't take that long if you're going through a manic episode.

 

embryo_derblanca_v1.zip

 

NAME: "Grounded"

MIDI: "Haze" by Ito Emily (from Kidnapped Girl, sequenced by me)

SKY: pixel art by CopperSunset, edited and color balanced by me

TESTED WITH: DSDA and GZDoom

 

Includes the sky as a PNG, but I also baked in sky, MIDI and map name with a quick UMAPINFO for ease of testing.

A piss easy or a rather difficult map, depending how you approach it - mostly aiming to be a pleasant, small thing in the style of CC2 /CC3 / Kuchitsu, that can be easily speedrun and doesn't overstay its welcome. Preliminary difficulties implemented. I'm not an experienced mapper and it shows, but it's a fun little piece in my opinion. Let me know what you think.

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

Edited September 3, 2023 by DerBlanca

[Moustachio]

@Lina Here is a full completion demo for MAP21. (Uses revision 1) Overall, I really liked it! It was a pretty tough level, taking me around 35-40 attempts to single-segment. The entire map was very claustrophobic. Relying on the rocket launcher and super shotgun throughout the middle of the map was a fun combo, and I appreciate that the chaingun isn't even in this level. Once you get the plasma gun from the blue key segment, the red key segment becomes a lot more doable, and the difficulty of the claustrophobic fights is negated somewhat. I also really liked the cyberdemon here. Not the toughest cyberdemon fight (I won it on my first go), but it definitely kept me on edge and had a good boss battle feeling right before the end of the map. Nice work. MIDI and visuals are great as well and really fit MAP21. The whole map screams, "You're in the home stretch now, kid."

 

The only gripes I have really have to do with the start of the map up to when you get the super shotgun. Relying on the shotgun + rocket launcher combo is fun, but it's the crowd of imps that push it into luck territory. I don't necessarily want to change the flow of the map, I find the intro very rewarding, but I would like to note that I felt I had to rely on the enemies behaving a certain way to really maximize my health in that arena. When the imps get too close, I can pull out the shotgun to avoid splash damage, but I find I get more easily overwhelmed and end up losing more health from imp fireballs, revenant missiles, and chaingunner fire because the shotgun isn't the best weapon to take out close range hordes.

 

@DerBlanca First and full completion demos for MAP09. Not a bad level by any means. I liked the atmosphere and the slow midi, and it's aesthetically pleasing. It's the combat that really does it in for me though. It's not bad combat, but it's a tad slow, and the level severely lacked ammo. By the end of the last demo I elected to run to the exit simply because I had run out of ammo with an arch-vile resurrecting enemies nearby. Not a great spot to be in as a player. I also think either a rocket launcher, plasma gun, or super shotgun would help this level a ton, as single shotgunning revenants, cacodemons, arch-viles, & mancubi can get a little grindy. It does fit the mood of the midi and the somber sky, but by the time the outside is reached I think a higher tier weapon roster is in order. It also feels like the last trip outside is building up to a climactic fight, but all it does is open the exit door. A bit anticlimactic for the slow build that has preceded it. I see that I missed a secret that may have been big, so I may change my mind with the UV max demo. These are just my first impressions.

 

Here's a UV Max demo for MAP09. It's a little better this time around ammo wise, but I still ran pretty low by the end. My previous points still stand, and I noticed some occasional bits that I would change. These light inlets in particular are easy to get stuck on, and things such as the floor texture of the switch sector being the same as the room's floor are messy. For the life of me, I cannot figure out the berserk secret. The platform is too high to jump on. I can't even see anything in the editor that indicates how to get the berserk.

 

Okay, so you can arch-vile jump to it. That's a fair secret. I think some hint towards the arch-vile jump should be given before the AV is let out, plus more powerful weapons might coax some players into keeping it alive longer for them to figure the secret out.

 

@MrBlaskovitz UV Max demo for v3 of MAP19. I don't think my opinion on the map has changed too much, but I am glad to see the return of the teleporting hitscanners and the appearance of more detail. I still think the map needs a more climactic ending than what it currently has. Also, these window textures are still unaligned underneath. And the floor texture in this room is inconsistent.

 

@Tangra UV Max demo for v3 of MAP17. I like the map even more the second time around, I think it is at a good difficulty. I like the abundance of ammo, especially rockets. And I was able to get all kills, items, and secrets this time.

 

SECRET LEVEL IDEA

If anyone needs a secret level idea: a level where the bounding box is small, but it moves throughout the level and you have to stay in it.

Edited September 4, 2023 by Moustachio

[DerBlanca]

"Grounded" v2:

 

- terrain remodeling for both visuals and ease of movement

- added a secret

- sprinkled a little extra ammo here and there, but good use of the turret manc / hk might still be handy for stragglers

- now a RL is available in the outdoor area - unless the player finds the secrets ammo is limited, I want at all cost to avoid the map becoming RL-centric. A few shots,       and the player's got to make them count

- considerably beefed up the ambush following the switch that unlocks the exit

 

embryo_derblanca_v2.zip

[Moustachio]

@DerBlanca Here's a UV Max demo for MAP09, including the arch-vile jump. I liked the changes here, I think they make the map more well-rounded. The ending fight can be cheesed by hiding in that little hole, but I'm not complaining since I could have either saved more rockets or found that ammo stash secret earlier. I liked the extra secret, but this door opens into the sky (on the other side) and there's a sky transfer error here. I think this map will be a nice breather near the end of episode 1, and I like that the changes didn't take away from the somber and serene mood and slow, methodical combat. Nice work.

Edited September 4, 2023 by Moustachio

[BeachThunder]

2 hours ago, DerBlanca said:

"Grounded" v2:

I liked the Icon of Sin photo, don't think I've ever seen that one done before.

 

I didn't play v1, but there's definitely still a severe lack of ammo. Maybe it's okay, since the player will probably come in from the previous level with weapons and ammo; but from pistol start, it can feel like a slog.

 

If the outdoors secret is intended to be done via an archvile jump, then I'm not a fan - especially since the reward for the secret is so measly.

[DerBlanca]

"Grounded" v3:

 

- fixed the sky door

- fixed the sky transfers

- some other minor cosmetic changes

 

I consistently leave the map with 30+ shells and some bullets, so I'm not really confident in adding yet more ammo. 

 

 

embryo_derblanca_v3.zip

 

 

[MrBlaskovitz]

10 hours ago, Moustachio said:

 

@MrBlaskovitz Also, these window textures are still unaligned underneath.

 

Quick explanation for that. When I try to you the "align" tool in UDB (CTRL + A) it makes them look like that. And, I figured, since the program thinks its supposed to be like that, why not keep it that way.

Also, another thing, the windows genuinely just look better when the textures are positioned like that.

[DerBlanca]

1 hour ago, MrBlaskovitz said:

Quick explanation for that. When I try to you the "align" tool in UDB (CTRL + A) it makes them look like that. And, I figured, since the program thinks its supposed to be like that, why not keep it that way.

Also, another thing, the windows genuinely just look better when the textures are positioned like that.

 

A meeting point between the two options could be using a support texture at the junction point. I could see a 16px (split in two 8px) lines of appropriately aligned SUPPORT3 to match the earthy tone of the walls. Just an idea. 

[Lina]

12 hours ago, Moustachio said:

@Lina Here is a full completion demo for MAP21. (Uses revision 1) Overall, I really liked it! It was a pretty tough level, taking me around 35-40 attempts to single-segment. The entire map was very claustrophobic. Relying on the rocket launcher and super shotgun throughout the middle of the map was a fun combo, and I appreciate that the chaingun isn't even in this level. Once you get the plasma gun from the blue key segment, the red key segment becomes a lot more doable, and the difficulty of the claustrophobic fights is negated somewhat. I also really liked the cyberdemon here. Not the toughest cyberdemon fight (I won it on my first go), but it definitely kept me on edge and had a good boss battle feeling right before the end of the map. Nice work. MIDI and visuals are great as well and really fit MAP21. The whole map screams, "You're in the home stretch now, kid."

 

The only gripes I have really have to do with the start of the map up to when you get the super shotgun. Relying on the shotgun + rocket launcher combo is fun, but it's the crowd of imps that push it into luck territory. I don't necessarily want to change the flow of the map, I find the intro very rewarding, but I would like to note that I felt I had to rely on the enemies behaving a certain way to really maximize my health in that arena. When the imps get too close, I can pull out the shotgun to avoid splash damage, but I find I get more easily overwhelmed and end up losing more health from imp fireballs, revenant missiles, and chaingunner fire because the shotgun isn't the best weapon to take out close range hordes.

Hell yeah, looking through the demo most of the map has the feel I was going for. The cyberdemon fight's supposed to seem more intimidating than it actually is, I'm glad it landed.
https://www.mediafire.com/file/ah7ioyc1b0cnal4/Embryo_MAP21_-_Gutmachine_-_Revision_2.wad/file
- Changed the teleporters in the first fight. It should be possible to consistently have 80ish% health remaining by the time you've cleared the imps, if you deal with them quickly.
- Added a bit more ammo to the plasma section. It shouldn't affect the difficulty of the key fights much, but the player shouldn't be running out of ammo during the lock-in fight now.
- Implemented difficulty levels. HMP simplifies the tougher fights, NTR takes away most of the threats
- Added a teleporter at the end for backtracking
- Some more visual and texture tweaks

If nothing's broken, this should be the final version.

[Tangra]

@Lina it is a really cool map, and visually really hits the spot. I've struggled to beat it, even with saves, but that's because the map hits me at my biggest weakness - intense fights in tight spaces. After SCF's map and now this, i realized that I'm just bad at this type of high pressure encounters, so don't take that as a complaint. One fight in particular i thought i never get pass through, the one in the red key room. I tried again and again, but finally by some miracle made it out alive, and in very good conditions with over 150% health and armor, but i have no idea how that happened. I saw in Moustachio's demo, he focused on the mancubi and cacodemons before turning his attention to the imps and archviles. My strategy was to clear the imps first and wait for the first archvile to show up. If i can get him to spawn early and take him out, before the cacos are too close to me, then i can get a hold of the fight. The rest of the map was more up my alley, especially with the fair distribution of health and armor. That cyberdemon fight was very creative, reminded me of what the Casali bros were doing with teleporting archviles in Plutonia.