Embryo: where each map is smaller than the last

[Tangra]

Since the deadline is approaching, here's the last update (hopefully) of my map. It has better texture alignment, fixed brightness on some sectors that needed to be dark, but were too bright before, added glowing and blinking effects to some of the decorations and replaced the lost souls closet with imps, as the souls weren't too effective or surprising the way they were placed before. 

 

Map 17: The Wailing Fields

Music: King Diamond - At the Graves

Sky: SKYHX1 form CC4 Texture Pack

LINK: https://www.mediafire.com/file/tiunx60zxapscsz/Embryo_Map17_TWF_V9.wad/file

[signaturereverie]

4 hours ago, apichatpong said:

and considering why these monsters don't teleport on GZDoom, i'm sorry, it's above my level of understanding of doom editing diversity...

ohhhhh i think i know whats happening . in this particular map all the monster closets are made with conveyor belts and im pretty sure that gzdoom handles them differently from Everyone Else . and i havent tested on gzdoom because i generally dont use it like at all out of personal preference so im gonna have to come back and look through ife anythings broken there

 

[apichatpong]

Sunday with a flu... started to look at all the maps from this one (hope it's OK).

Did it on HMP.

 

Map 01 to 14

 

Map 01 : great opening map ! Got all K/I/S no ammo starvation !

 

Map 04 : Another impressive and clever one ! Got all I/S, missed one kill (mancubus thing 269 woke up but didn’t teleport)(must be a gzdoom thing) no ammo starvation.

 

Map 08 : Gonna have to try it again. Didn't managed well my ammo or found lately some important goodies (rocket launcher, berserk). Very labyrinthic and clever. On the route i followed it felt a bit tysonish and quite difficult sometimes (the HK, BH and Revenants on cramped spaces).  Had to cheat sometimes.  Everything is killable, got all items and secrets. Ammo starvation but surely due to personal bad choices (and skill issues).

Maybe some more details to be even better but as it is it's a very good one !
Death exit didn’t worked for me on gzdoom.

 

Map 09 : Considerably easier, more straightforward, than last map (except for last fight maybe).

Couldn’t reach the berserk so, missed one secret and one item. All kills.

Felt a bit strange between map 08 and 10 on the size level.

 

Map 10 : Quick and intense, GREAT one ! All K/I/S. Generous on ammo and health (and since I’m no doomgod at all, appreciated). All rooms had their own vibes !

 

Map 13 : Tough one but great one !

All K/I/S, some ammo starvation sometimes but I guess it’s mostly me not shooting well or less easily thinking of infighting in cramped places… the room with BFG and X archviles is especially difficult (but some other rooms are also). Didn’t got the thing with the boxes of rockets on the rocket launcher area… couldn’t reach it, thought I found a way but it lead to a non-related secret.

 

Map 14 : Is really something ! Really really hard and punishing ! So many unexpected damaging floors, some real hard encounters… had to cheat in the end.
Some strange stuffs I encountered on prboom+ :
A candle floating (image 1)
Some items over items (images 2 and 3)
After the ssg area fight, used the elevator, did the platforming and fall down without being able to reach again the ssg area and the elevator (but writing this and after « finishing » the map, not sure it’s necessary, maybe using the thin fleshy stairs to come back to the beginning and turning left do the job…)
Some monsters didn’t wake up (image 4)
Fell stuck in there while walking again through the map (image 5)
Didn’t manage to kill all the monsters, it happens that three cacos were « stuck » behind the small pool with damaging water (the one with the plasma gun) and due to some things blocking the angle, were difficult to kill. (image 6, behind the walls) 

By the way, all these things placed in the middle of platform to make you fall, it’s sadism ! ;)

Once again it’s from a very casual player point of view, maybe veterans will feel easier in this HARD but GREAT map (and forget the thing about the womb, the curves made me think about this sunlust map but the overall feeling is very different.

 

Got a bit tired by map 14 but will try later to be more precise on the sectors mentionned above...

Edited February 18 by apichatpong

[signaturereverie]

1 hour ago, apichatpong said:

A candle floating (image 1)

easy fix:+1:

1 hour ago, apichatpong said:

Some items over items (images 2 and 3)

they do spawn in one after another and in general i dont think its nearly a big enough problem

 

1 hour ago, apichatpong said:

Some monsters didn’t wake up (image 4)

this is really strange ? theyre stuck in one another and ive never seen that happen and i have no idea how it would happen because its all vanilla teleport actions so it shouldnt teleport them in when the destination is blocked . really really strange could you send like info on the sourceport and the version and the complevel youre using (i dont know what i would do with that info but . might turn out to be useful idk)

1 hour ago, apichatpong said:

Fell stuck in there while walking again through the map (image 5)

also really really strange because ive never once had the lamp teleport setup fail on me so i really have no idea what couldve gone wrong in the first place

 

1 hour ago, apichatpong said:

Didn’t manage to kill all the monsters, it happens that three cacos were « stuck » behind the small pool with damaging water (the one with the plasma gun) and due to some things blocking the angle, were difficult to kill. (image 6, behind the walls) 

also strange . and also from that screenshot i noticed that the lamps up there that shouldve teleported away did not , so im starting to feel that it really has to be something on your end (wrong complevel or old outdated port version) so i think you really should check that out too

[apichatpong]

6 minutes ago, signaturereverie said:

so i think you really should check that out too

 

This must be the reason ! Sorry in that case. (played on complevel 9 (at least I think... Boom compatibility), prboom+ 2.5.1.5)

 

 

[apichatpong]

15 hours ago, signaturereverie said:

so i think you really should check that out t

and.... you were right.

 

Did a quick playthrough on prboom+ 2.5.1.5 boom compability (which is complevel 9 on my version) and once again all the problems happened.

 

Did a quick playthrough on prboom+ 2.5.1.5 prboom current (which, I suppose nown mean also complevel 9) and : no problems !

 

Sorry, once again.

[apichatpong]

Last post, sorry for the three in a row.

Still HMP, didn't said it yesterday but used saves (sometimes a lot)

Not a playtester, everytime I think i found something it's in fact due to bad port or bad complevel choice, so : just an overall and quick feelings report :

 

Map 15 : all K/I/S, found secret exit. A « grand écart » with map 14 but this is the unusual success of this wad : no real consistency between maps (speaking of atmosphere, at least) but a naive joy of discovering different universes (smaller and smaller).
So : map 15, Sparks ! Good choice, good joke, very good realistic and classic map ! Some quite hard fights, no ammo problem, some health's ones but because I did some stupid stuff behind the blue door (honestly, don’t think health is a real problem here)

 

Map 17 : Very nice space organisation, great intense map with some hard encounters. All K/I/S, no ammo problem, health was a bit issue but, once again, it was me not being very very good…

 

Map 20 : Simple and classic map, easier than the last ones, nice pause, quite good ! All K/I/S, ammo and health ok !

 

Map 21 : Excellent map ! Of the microslaughter kind so, really tough (especially the red key fight ! I would have love to get the ssg before this fight, maybe I just missed the way…).
All K/I/S but will have to go back because didn’t found what to do with the yellow key

 

Map 25 : Nice one ! Simple and efficient but with some cool encounters. All K/I/S, no ammo starvation, quite generous on medikit but did die some times…

 

Map 26 : Another microslaughter map, nice on HMP because difficulty curve is well dosed in three steps. All K/I/S, generous on ammo a bit less on health but there is a megasphere when things become harder.

 

Map 27 : another miicroslaughter one, but with different flavor than the two previous one, with my very approximative knowledge of wads (and with, always, the same references...), let says that map 21 made me think sometimes about the cage from sunder, map 26 feels a bit like a micro version of the ending fight of some old sunder maps and this one is maybe more of a micro-version of some ToD map (it’s a bit nonsensical, because ToD maps need modification of space and it’s difficult to do that with the surface restriction of map 27, but that’s what I felt).

A bit rng base (on my casual player pov) but doable, last part is hard.
Didn’t kill everyone, jumped to the exit before the end, but I think everything is killable. No secret, all items. Ok with ammo and health.

Map 28 : great claustrophobic disorienting one. All K/I/S, no ammo problem, some tight encounters. Clever small 3D maze.

 

As we say in France, the below ranking is a bit like "l'école des fans" but it's because I had a great time occupying myself with these maps while fever was going up and down :

 

Favorite ones : 01, 04, 10, 13, 14, 17, 21, 28 (yeah, it's a lot)

Great ones : 08, 15, 26, 27

Very good ones : 20, 25

Really good ! (but with a strange feeling on size level when compare to the two surrounding ones) : 09

Edited February 19 by apichatpong

[Arno]

On 2/18/2024 at 4:20 PM, apichatpong said:

Map 04 : Another impressive and clever one ! Got all I/S, missed one kill (mancubus thing 269 woke up but didn’t teleport)(must be a gzdoom thing) no ammo starvation.

Thanks for the feedback!

I figured out what was wrong with the mancubus. There is a barrel obstructing the teleport destination. I didn't notice it in my playthroughs, as I always tend to shoot the barrel. I'll fix it, thanks!

[Moustachio]

@signaturereverie I tried my best to get V2 into a single-segment demo, but no luck today. I still want to give feedback on the map as a whole, however, since I have played the whole thing. I think this is a very unique and beautiful map. It feels more like an experience than a game level, but I mean that in the best way possible. I also think that its greatest strengths (the atmosphere and visual design) are also its greatest weaknesses. But I don't think this hinders the design. It's more that the whole point of the map is to be a bit obtuse. Finding where to go next frankly seems like an appropriate challenge given the strange alien space. For how out-there it is from an architectural standpoint, it does have a well-executed map flow. You just gotta spend some time with it to unravel that flow. For that reason, I think it would be worth thinking about putting this in either the MAP31 or 32 slot.

 

Gameplay wise, there's a fair number of challenging fights that are all well designed, especially in V2. None of them feel impossible or out-of-place. They all use the strange architecture to their advantages, often forcing me to duck into strange crevasses and learn the optimal routes to clear each encounter. The way the map constantly shape-shifted added to the excitement of combat as well.

 

So I really like this map. It's frustrating in a good way, and I think it deserves to have a spot in the main lineup. That being said, I could also free up the 14 spot for another mapper and move this into one of the secret slots. What do you think, reverie? Or if anyone else has thoughts on this, feel free to share.

[Tangra]

8 hours ago, apichatpong said:

Map 17 : Very nice space organisation, great intense map with some hard encounters. All K/I/S, no ammo problem, health was a bit issue but, once again, it was me not being very very good…

 

Thanks for trying it out. Unfortunately, i think i messed up one of the spawn points again. In the last fight, there are some cacodemons and a pain elemental that teleport on to a platform and get stuck there. I forgot i made the lines on that platform impassable. I'll wait for another month, or a day before the deadline, before i update the map again, i want to be sure this time.

[apichatpong]

44 minutes ago, Tangra said:

 

Thanks for trying it out. Unfortunately, i think i messed up one of the spawn points again. In the last fight, there are some cacodemons and a pain elemental that teleport on to a platform and get stuck there. I forgot i made the lines on that platform impassable. I'll wait for another month, or a day before the deadline, before i update the map again, i want to be sure this time.

I think I see what you mean, in the last fight one cacodemon was stuck behind the impassable lines in front of the yellow door.

 

To be honest, didn't noticed it this morning but it's probably because, like in the quick run with cheats I just did, the cacodemon started infighting quickly... (no pain elemental on the last fight on UV (or it's the flu fever effet on me))

 

Did also a quick run with cheats on UV, two cacodemons "stuck" on that part, also infighting, and the pain elemental was quite free to fly.

Tested on gzdoom

[Andromeda]

15 hours ago, apichatpong said:

Did a quick playthrough on prboom+ 2.5.1.5 prboom current (which, I suppose nown mean also complevel 9) and : no problems ! 

That's complevel 17, not 9.

[apichatpong]

7 hours ago, Andromeda said:

That's complevel 17, not 9.

 

I thought it was not complevel 9...

Got the final answer on my side, I guess that, since the latest version of prboom+ I can get on my old mac os is prboom+ 2.5.1.5 and that Boom v2.02 is not accessible on that version, I convinced myself that it was a very minor update and that, since cl9 is sometimes called "boom compatility", choosing "boom compatibility" as complevel will be equivalent to complevel 9... the level we're discussing here proved me wrong...

Still don't have access to complevel 9 on my version of prboom+ (nor cl10, but ok for cl11 to 17) but have complevel 8 (Boom v2.01) and the level also works on cl8, so I imagine on cl9, so everything is fine.

Edited February 20 by apichatpong

[signaturereverie]

@Moustachio thank you lots for the feedback , its very appreciated !

while i would very much agree that my map turned out to be subversive in almost every way , it does also clearly follow the restrictions for its mapslot , only cleverly working around said restrictions , and i feel like that could still very well work within the main set . in my personal opinion , in a mapset with such defined themes and restrictions there should be something even more going for the secret maps to warrant their inclusion and placement like a spin on the main gimmick of the wad itself . for example , a map that only extends outwards from the centre as you go through , or playing in a similar way with restriction/extreme usage of vertical space instead of horizontal

[Moustachio]

@signaturereverie I think you’re right, the map will work remarkably well within the main set.

 

Speaking of secret levels, @LoatharMDPhD, how goes the computer circuit idea?

[Moustachio]

I just realized that I'll be traveling through the 1st of April until the 7th, so I'm extending the deadline again to the following Monday, the 8th of April.

Edited February 25 by Moustachio

[ViolentBeetle]

A little fix here. I realized that exit is currently lack any meaningful indication that it is, in fact, an exit.

In addition, closed off a boundary-breaking and potentially stuckable-in switch alcove.

embryo-MAP25-februaryfixes.zip

[Arno]

I've updated my map; mostly with additional geometric details in various places. As discussed earlier, I fixed the spawning mancubus and made one secret accessible from the yellow key area. The rest of the gameplay remained pretty much the same.

TheFallenCitadel_Embryo_MAP04_V2.zip

[Arno]

I did a casual playthrough of all the maps submitted so far. Emphasis on casual, as this was by no means a thorough, in depth test session. I played on ITYTD just to get a feeling on what the full megawad will look like.

 

MAP01
A very enjoyable map that makes good use of the large space. What makes gameplay intense is that from various directions you can frequently hear monsters roaming around area's that may or may not be reachable yet.

 

MAP08
Pretty engaging combat with some well placed archviles and other challenging traps. The silver design gives the techbase a consistent look and feel.

 

MAP09
Pretty easy to navigate. Combat is relaxing. I could not figure out how to reach the berserk secret.
Based on the observation from @apichatpong, I checked the size of the map in DoomBuilder. It doesn't seem to make maximum use of the allowed space for MAP09 (3072x3072). It's about 2648x2048 in size, so it would have also fitted in the MAP12 slot.

 

MAP10
One of my favorite maps. Very impressive visuals and combat. The use of high ceilings and scenery outside the playable boundaries gives the impression of a pretty massive industrial environment. Great music as well.

 

MAP13
This map oozes with atmosphere. Some good variation between close combat in narrow corridors and running around in large arena's. The final arena was actually relatively easy compared to the BFG area with archviles.

 

MAP14
Unfortunately, I'm unable to figure out how to finish the map. After picking up the super shotgun, the platform is sealed off with lamps and I get stuck there. I'm probably missing something obvious. I used noclip to check out some of the rest of the map. It does look very unique with some cleverly designed moving parts.

 

MAP15
Good-looking city environment with quite some attention for detail. Fun gameplay, with lots of opportunities to shoot through windows and hide behind crates.

 

MAP17
I love the dark, grim atmosphere of this map with all the little details that were put into for example the altars. Some interesting and challenging battles in the narrow corridors. The final battle took me a bit of save scumming.

 

MAP20
Pretty easy, relaxed gameplay. I would have liked a bit more height variation, but the map will do well as an opportunity for the player to catch some breath.

 

MAP21
Cleverly designed map, making very effective use of both the limited playable area and the space beyond. Relatively easy, due to the presence of mega- and soulspheres.

 

MAP25
Nicely designed map. It's not too hard, as despite the small size of the map it offers enough room to maneuver and there's plenty of health boxes available.

 

MAP26
This map is quite challenging due to the tight space, but in a fun way. I like that there are massive structures visible in the background. It makes it feel like the player is in the heart of an enormous factory environment, similar to the pod scene in the Matrix.

 

MAP27
Such a large amount of monsters in such a small space can look intimidating at first, but it's actually pretty doable and fun. In my first attempt I unintentionally ran into the exit while circling around a revenant. 

 

MAP28
Very creative use of the space outside the playable area. I love the key delivery system. The only thing that puzzled me is how to reach the blue key. I couldn't ran across the gap. Tried strafe running, but no luck. So I grabbed it via noclip.

 

My overall impression is that the whole concept of increasingly smaller maps works quite well. Combat gets noticeably tighter when progressing through the maps. So far each map has its own unique look and feel, which for me is a pleasant surprise everytime the next map is entered.
 

[apichatpong]

4 minutes ago, Arno said:

MAP14

Unfortunately, I'm unable to figure out how to finish the map. After picking up the super shotgun, the platform is sealed off with lamps and I get stuck there. I'm probably missing something obvious. I used noclip to check out some of the rest of the map. It does look very unique with some cleverly designed moving parts.

 

 

 

Had the same problem, if I remember well :

Spoiler

there is a shootable switch far away on the right when you come back from the ssg pick

 

[BeachThunder]

2 hours ago, Arno said:

MAP28

Very creative use of the space outside the playable area. I love the key delivery system. The only thing that puzzled me is how to reach the blue key. I couldn't ran across the gap. Tried strafe running, but no luck. So I grabbed it via noclip.
 

No strafe running required, you should just be able to run across to the back of the blue skull platform.

[Arno]

On 3/18/2024 at 10:34 PM, apichatpong said:

 

Had the same problem, if I remember well :

Thank you; I found it and could continue the map. I actually ran into the same issue again after killing the last monster. I feel kind of dumb that it took me quite a while to figure out where the exit was, but it is rather small on a 15" laptop screen. Nevertheless, this is an amazing map. Absolutely magical how the structures shift into place. The final battle brings a ton of action, but is IMO difficulty wise appropriate for ITYTD, mainly thanks to the invincibility sphere.

 

On 3/19/2024 at 1:18 AM, BeachThunder said:

No strafe running required, you should just be able to run across to the back of the blue skull platform.

I found out that somehow accidently the run movement wasn't bound to a key anymore. Which I didn't notice at first. Now it is bound again and I have no problem to run towards the blue skull platform. Sorry for the confusion.

[DoomGuy2077]

I'm sure somebody has already made the joke but while we're on the topic of Pink Floyd-themed community projects, when are we going to get the "Careful with that gun, Marine"?

Edited March 20 by DoomGuy2077
clairity

[Windy]

Here's V2 of map13.

 

Download:

 

Changelog:

 

- A lot more detailing all around the map and overall improved visuals.

 

- Changed the clips and shells in the starting room to their respective boxes because I think they look better, this means there are 20 extra bullets in the map now.

 

- Added 2 more Pain Elementals to the plasma gun secret (1 on HMP and HNTR). Other than that no changes to monsters on any difficulty or co-op.

 

- Fixed a small issue where the sniping Imps would wake up before the final fight was triggered.

 

- Made the linedefs that trigger secrets hidden so the automap would not spoil them.

 

- Added a signature because why not?

 

- Marked the key fights accordingly so the progression is clearer.

 

[Moustachio]

19 hours ago, DoomGuy2077 said:

I'm sure somebody has already made the joke but while we're on the topic of Pink Floyd-themed community projects, when are we going to get the "Careful with that gun, Marine"?

Alternatively: “One of These Days, I’ll Shoot You Into Little Pieces”

[ViolentBeetle]

If deadline comes and MAP30 does, I think I have an idea that can work and I could throw together quickly. If such a need arises.

[TJG1289]

I finally sat down and started doing the visual design for my map. I think I just have the interiors left to do, and that's not much. I'm going to try to get those done in the next 24 hours, so I can post the completed map in the thread, tho I still may work on more detailing after posting it. 

[TJG1289]

MAP02: Getting Smaller

Music: Stealth Mode by Jimmy

Sky: default

Tested with: DSDA Doom, GZDoom

LINK: here

 

Like I said, I'll probably still do some more detailing, but I'd like people to play through it now to make sure there's no glaring issues, and for general feedback on gameplay as well. Only issue I'm aware of right now is the intermission text has the name of the map in a weird distorted mess. First time using DoomWriter, so idk what I'm really doing. 

[BeachThunder]

1 hour ago, TJG1289 said:

MAP02: Getting Smaller

Music: Stealth Mode by Jimmy

Sky: default

Tested with: DSDA Doom, GZDoom

LINK: here

 

Like I said, I'll probably still do some more detailing, but I'd like people to play through it now to make sure there's no glaring issues, and for general feedback on gameplay as well. Only issue I'm aware of right now is the intermission text has the name of the map in a weird distorted mess. First time using DoomWriter, so idk what I'm really doing. 

 

Nice. Shame there was no good way of getting the Baron cannons to work.

 

Just a couple of issues:

 

You can actually escape the confines of the level if you drop down this hole that's just around the corner from the start: 

 

Also, this nearby wall is still STARTAN:

[whybmonotacrab]

Level Name: Deluge.

Completion time: 3-4 minutes.

Midi: Wake of a Dream - Ribbiks

Sky Texture: SKYHX3C from 32in24-15.wad.

Tested with DSDA-Doom.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1t4-rXr9cp2dpiA4A9oeYyvntPG2VnjKQ/view?usp=sharing

 This map was tougher to put together than it seemed. The concept meant that I had to severely limit myself in terms of detailing as more sectors would mess up the voodoo doll timings and stuff.