Embryo: where each map is smaller than the last

[Tangra]

4 hours ago, MrBlaskovitz said:

Quick explanation for that. When I try to you the "align" tool in UDB (CTRL + A) it makes them look like that. And, I figured, since the program thinks its supposed to be like that, why not keep it that way.

Also, another thing, the windows genuinely just look better when the textures are positioned like that.

 

You need to lower/upper unpeg them for the texture to align.

[LoatharMDPhD]

6 hours ago, Tangra said:

 

You need to lower/upper unpeg them for the texture to align.

Do you know any SLADE 3.2.1. shortcuts or how to bind them?

[Moustachio]

11 hours ago, MrBlaskovitz said:

Also, another thing, the windows genuinely just look better when the textures are positioned like that.

Whether or not something looks better is a matter of preference, I'll give you that. But within the current day standards of Doom mapping, and given the ease of use of modern Doom mapping tools, it's expected for textures to be well aligned. A similar idea can be achieved, as suggested by @DerBlanca, by putting the SUPPORT3 texture as detail at both sides of each window like this.

 

The beginnings of a "resource pack." Right now, it just has a COMPLVL lump, and some non-level music. When done, it'll just have the title and interpic lumps, text screen music, MAPINFO, and other useful lumps.

 

The tracks are sequenced from the Pink Floyd song that inspired the project, Embryo. The source midi is from freemidi.org. I can't find any info about who sequenced the source midi, but I went a head and resequenced it into a title, text, and intermission track. I tried to make them each unique.

 

If any musicians want to have a crack at it, I'm still open to accepting new title/text/intermission screen music. I would like it to be legally distinct, yet inspired somehow by the Pink Floyd song that inspired the project, Embryo.

Edited September 4, 2023 by Moustachio

[Tangra]

15 minutes ago, LoatharMDPhD said:

Do you know any SLADE 3.2.1. shortcuts or how to bind them?

 

No, i'm sorry, my knowledge of Slade is very basic i'm afraid.

Edited September 4, 2023 by Tangra

[LoatharMDPhD]

54 minutes ago, Tangra said:

 

No, i'm sorry, my knowledge of Slade is very basic i'm afraid.

So is mine! that's why i've handicapped myself from the very start... (I'm one of those Linux assholes...)

[Moustachio]

29 minutes ago, LoatharMDPhD said:

So is mine! that's why i've handicapped myself from the very start... (I'm one of those Linux assholes...)

You're not necessarily handicapped by Linux. You can natively build the Ultimate Doom Builder source on Linux (though it is experimental). I find that UDB is more fully featured and easier to use for map editing than SLADE, and it has upper & lower unpegging bound to U and L by default.

[Tangra]

@DerBlanca

 

Solid map, played the final version. I really needed something more relaxed in difficulty, after getting a reality check about my skill as Doom player in some of the other submissions :D. And that midi put me at ease right from the get go, love the music choice. I really can't find anything to criticize about the map. I liked the fights, even taking out the archvile, some revenants, the pain elemental and the arachnotron with just a single barrel and a chaingun, felt good to me. I even tried to be clever and left the mancubus alive to see if i can use him as a turret to take out the archvile, but that blew in my face. The ammo balance felt right. With a few mistakes, and without getting the Berserk secret, i finished the map with all kills, with 30 bullets left and nothing else.  I almost forgot to use the rocket launcher after i got it, so i made it more complicated by the end than it should have been.

[DerBlanca]

@Tangra thanks, unfortunately I have very little time to play (or make maps for) Doom nowadays, so I prefer to make stuff I'd play myself: short romps that you can clear without too much hassle, with little punishment if the player forgets about having a certain weapon or doesn't route down to a dot.

[Raith138]

A new challenger joins the ring.

This is meant to be tight but the OP said that the final maps should be tight so here it is:

Realm of Sargentia

 

Spoiler

I wonder why it is called Sargentia...

 

[Moustachio]

@Raith138 Here are three demos: the FDA demo is my first attempt, the FIN demo is my first completion, and the UVMAX demo is UV max.

 

At first, I was terrified to see the swarm of shotgunners right at the start. I thought this map would have solely sergeants based on the name, but thankfully it turned out to be a short & sweet combat puzzle involving multiple monster types. I liked using the switches to activate different monster swarms to block the shotgunner fire. The abundance of big health pickups also made it more feasible to try out different strategies each time since I could soak up a fair amount of hitscan damage before being in danger. It was cool to see how you designed this encounter around a very small playable area that included: height variation, monster variety, and a limited arsenal.

 

My only complaint is that I wanted more by the end of it. I was expecting to have to press both switches to reveal the ending, but it seems like you just need to press one. You can also force your way into the exit before the fight really gets started as well, which kind of defeats the purpose of the map. I also thought some of the outer walls would lower and reveal some enemies outside of the playable area, but I understand if you didn't want to go down this route.

 

Great work. Did you want the default MAP27 midi to be used?

Edited September 6, 2023 by Moustachio

[Raith138]

I FORGOT TO CLOSE THE SWITCH

OMFG

Fixed:

 

Realm of Sargentia.zip

Edited September 6, 2023 by Raith138

[Moustachio]

@Raith138 Another demo for the new version. In this demo, you can see how the final imps teleport in really slow, making me wait for them to get out to UV max it.

 

My main comments on the level still stand. I think it's still very short, and while it's fun to take care of the two hordes, there's not a lot to them. I think it would have been more interesting to have both switches be needed to activate the ending, since it was more fun to combine the two encounters. It's also still possible to run straight to the exit if you get there fast enough after hitting the switch. Upon replaying it, I think the level still has more potential to be unlocked.

Edited September 6, 2023 by Moustachio

[Raith138]

I don't know why that one imp took so long but I don't think that is my fault.

I don't have very much space to work with so I can't add a whole lot to it.

Also, wdym by both switches being needed, they are needed.

Edited September 6, 2023 by Raith138

[Moustachio]

@Raith138 The monster closet can be improved upon so that single imps are more likely to teleport through. Here's what I mean:

 

 

On the top is the existing one in MAP27, and on the bottom is something similar to what I usually use. What I've found is that the extra lines help imps teleport in because they often spend time wandering behind the teleport lines in the closet.

 

As far as space goes, there's always more vertical space to work with, and there's space outside of the map that monsters and detail can exist even though the player can't go there.

 

For the switches. I meant that instead of one switch unlocking the next switch, have them both open at the start. Then, once they are both pressed, open the exit up. So the two switches can be pressed in any order, but only once they are both pressed would the exit open. Maybe after a bit of a timer so the player can't rush to the exit and skip the last fight. You would have to move the revenant & imp teleport destination off of the exit teleporter though.

Edited September 6, 2023 by Moustachio

[Raith138]

I have no idea why that bottom one would be better...

I have my opinions on the being able to detail outside the area, like what is stopping somebody from making all the enemies outside the play area, as long as you can't access it your in the green.

I can change the switches to  your idea but I don't think it will do that much to improve the level or anything significant.

 

I do not mean to be disrespectful but I just don't know if I agree with you.

 

[LoatharMDPhD]

23 minutes ago, Moustachio said:

@Raith138 The monster closet can be improved upon so that single imps are more likely to teleport through. Here's what I mean:

 

 

On the top is the existing one in MAP27, and on the bottom is something similar to what I usually use. What I've found is that the extra lines help imps teleport in because they often spend time wandering behind the teleport lines in the closet.

 

As far as space goes, there's always more vertical space to work with, and there's space outside of the map that monsters and detail can exist even though the player can't go there.

 

For the switches. I meant that instead of one switch unlocking the next switch, have them both open at the start. Then, once they are both pressed, open the exit up. So the two switches can be pressed in any order, but only once they are both pressed would the exit open. Maybe after a bit of a timer so the player can't rush to the exit and skip the last fight. You would have to move the revenant & imp teleport destination off of the exit teleporter though.

you using w1 or wr on the imp closet teleport accordion ?

[Moustachio]

13 hours ago, Raith138 said:

I have no idea why that bottom one would be better...

I have my opinions on the being able to detail outside the area, like what is stopping somebody from making all the enemies outside the play area, as long as you can't access it your in the green.

I can change the switches to  your idea but I don't think it will do that much to improve the level or anything significant.

 

I do not mean to be disrespectful but I just don't know if I agree with you.

You're not being disrespectful, you're allowed to tell me you want to keep the map the way it is. These are just suggestions.

 

The bottom teleporter is more efficient because imps will pool up on the right side of that top teleporter and hit the actual teleport lines less frequently. You should try both and see which one teleports imps faster.

 

And there is nothing stopping somebody from making all the enemies outside the play area. That's actually a large part of what you can do with a small map size like 512x512. Same goes with detail. It's not against the rules, nor does it defeat the purpose of the map, it's just another tool you can use to get more out of what space you have.

 

I would just recommend coming back to this map after a break and seeing what new ideas you may have then. If you don't have any, that's okay too. The map is fine.

 

Sort of a demonstration of what I'm talking about:

 

Edited September 7, 2023 by Moustachio

[DerBlanca]

"Grounded" v4:

 

Very minor update - while replaying I noticed a very ugly paper-thin sector in the outdoor terrain and fixed it. 

 

 

embryo_derblanca_v4.zip

 

 

[Mario2560]

Here's my map, Moustachio!

 

Took me roughly two days, and was a great learning experience!

Shoutout to @MrBlaskovitz for being supportive about the map, the map name is

a nod to him.

 

MAP20: Hell can't wait.

Music: :"Plugged in" by Bucket (Plutonia MIDI pack).

Sky: Default DOOM 2 city sky.

Tested with: PRBoom Plus (complevel-9)

MAP20 Submission - Hell can't wait.zip

[Moustachio]

@Mario2560 Here are all of my demo attempts. Feel free to play them all back in DSDA Doom. The first one (non-numbered) is my blind attempt, and the last one (00007) is my first completion which also happens to be a UV Max run.

 

First impressions: I think this is a solid map!

 

What I liked: I can see that there's a lot of playing around with different monster combinations, and the flow is good too. I feel like I got the super shotgun at the right time and was always well equipped with health and ammo for whichever given situation I found myself in. The final fight with the arch-vile caught me off guard, and was actually a very fun fight. A good way to go out. I also liked the window outside showing the little buildings, a good bit of doomcute there.

 

Wasn't keen on: I did feel that the lack of secrets or items was underwhelming. The whole map was very flat with little floor or ceiling height variation. Now, it does sort of fit with the theme, but Going Down demonstrates how height variation can factor into an office setting. Some texturing looked off to me, such as how certain wall indents have the same floor and ceiling texture as the rest of the room.

 

It's cool that you and MrBlaskovitz seem keen on working together and sharing map revisions, and I like that your maps are both variations on the same theme. Mapping duos always create some interesting projects.

 

As always, there's more to learn, so feel free to come back and revise the map to your liking as long as the project is open. Feel free to take or leave the feedback above as a starting point towards refining your original idea.

Edited September 8, 2023 by Moustachio

[BeachThunder]

@Moustachio Hello. Spent about a week and a half working on this.

 

 

MAP28: Deliverance [384 x 384]

Music: Dial-up for Murder - MIDI Nightmares - City of Prisms.mid from @dial-up

Sky: Sky3 from Doom II

Tested with: DSDA-Doom 0.26.2 & GZDoom 4.10.0

Download: Embryo MAP28 - Deliverance1point4.zip

 

changelog:

Deliverance v1.4:

 

• Players now start out facing the conveyor belt - with some things already on it. Hopefully this reinforces the idea that this is the place where things are delivered.
• Added some extra enemies (17 extra enemies on Hard).
• Added an ambush after using the yellow skull.
• After taking the second teleporter, the post-red door area gets blocked off, preventing an easy escape. The other entrance to the teleporter slightly opens up though, allowing line of sight to the outdoor chaingunner area.
• Added some signage to the entrance conveyor belt to show when the red and yellow skull keys are available. Previously, it could become a little cluttered, possibly making the skull keys hard to see among corpses and other things.
• Fixed a hall of mirrors issue that some people were getting.
• Added a death exit.
• A lot of aesthetic changes.
• Plus some other small changes I've probably forgotten about.

 

Previous versions:

Spoiler

v1.3:

 

• Lowered the switch that's on the bottom right of the map.
• Made the monster encountered after the blue door a spectre on all difficulties.

 

Download: https://doomshack.org/uploads/Embryo MAP28 - Deliverance1point3.wad

 

v1.2:

 

• Fixed issue of getting a yellow skull early
• changed demarcation of backpack secret
• Removed exploit of getting the backpack without activating the secret
• Aligned a floor properly

 

Download: https://doomshack.org/uploads/Embryo MAP28 - Deliverance1point2.wad

 

v1.1:

 

• just a couple of tiny fixes.
   

Download: https://doomshack.org/uploads/Embryo MAP28 - Deliverance1point1.wad

 

v1.0:

 

• Initial version.

 

Download: https://doomshack.org/uploads/Embryo MAP28 - Deliverance.wad

 

 

Edited September 23, 2023 by BeachThunder
Updated to v1.4

[Mario2560]

6 hours ago, Moustachio said:

@Mario2560 Here are all of my demo attempts. Feel free to play them all back in DSDA Doom. The first one (non-numbered) is my blind attempt, and the last one (00007) is my first completion which also happens to be a UV Max run.

 

First impressions: I think this is a solid map!

 

What I liked: I can see that there's a lot of playing around with different monster combinations, and the flow is good too. I feel like I got the super shotgun at the right time and was always well equipped with health and ammo for whichever given situation I found myself in. The final fight with the arch-vile caught me off guard, and was actually a very fun fight. A good way to go out. I also liked the window outside showing the little buildings, a good bit of doomcute there.

 

Wasn't keen on: I did feel that the lack of secrets or items was underwhelming. The whole map was very flat with little floor or ceiling height variation. Now, it does sort of fit with the theme, but Going Down demonstrates how height variation can factor into an office setting. Some texturing looked off to me, such as how certain wall indents have the same floor and ceiling texture as the rest of the room.

 

It's cool that you and MrBlaskovitz seem keen on working together and sharing map revisions, and I like that your maps are both variations on the same theme. Mapping duos always create some interesting projects.

 

As always, there's more to learn, so feel free to come back and revise the map to your liking as long as the project is open. Feel free to take or leave the feedback above as a starting point towards refining your original idea.

Ah, thanks for the feedback!

I’ll definitely add secrets and items in a later update today, and I’m glad you enjoyed the last fight.

[Moustachio]

@BeachThunder Demos for MAP28.

 

Wow. Now this is a cool map. I think everything that I look for in a space restricted map is here and then some. Clever use of height variation, boom effects, and outside-of-bounds monsters. And three secrets! On my first playthrough, I thought the level was a tad grindy due to the lack of SSG, but unraveling the secrets in this map was a blast and did indeed reward me with the SSG as well as a plasma gun! I had a lot of fun with this bite-sized map.

 

I believed I had found everything and wasn't able to trigger the last secret sector because I ended up with the secret backpack in the end. I didn't remember lowering the wall though... so I went and watched the UV max demo, and it seems like I was able to grab the backpack through the wall. I did see that there was a candle marking the secret, but I think it may have blended in with the corpses or something. Some indication on the wall for that secret would be a nice quality-of-life addition.

Edited September 8, 2023 by Moustachio

[Mario2560]

@Moustachio

Here's an updated version of my map, with the improvements you had in mind.

Enjoy!

Hell can't wait.zip

[BeachThunder]

12 minutes ago, Moustachio said:

@BeachThunder Demos for MAP28.

 

Wow. Now this is a cool map. I think everything that I look for in a space restricted map is here and then some. Clever use of height variation, boom effects, and outside-of-bounds monsters. And three secrets! On my first playthrough, I thought the level was a tad grindy due to the lack of SSG, but unraveling the secrets in this map was a blast and did indeed reward me with the SSG as well as a plasma gun! I had a lot of fun with this bite-sized map.

 

I believed I had found everything and wasn't able to trigger the last secret sector because I ended up with the secret backpack in the end. I didn't remember lowering the wall though... so I went and watched the UV max demo, and it seems like I was able to grab the backpack through the wall. I did see that there was a candle marking the secret, but I think it may have blended in with the corpses or something. Some indication on the wall for that secret would be a nice quality-of-life addition.

Arrgggh. You know how it is, you fix one thing, you break another.

 

Deliverance v1.2:

• Fixed issue of getting a yellow skull early
• changed demarcation of backpack secret
• Removed exploit of getting the backpack without activating the secret
• Aligned a floor properly

Download: https://doomshack.org/uploads/Embryo MAP28 - Deliverance1point2.wad

 

[Moustachio]

@Mario2560 UV Max demo for V2 of MAP20. I liked the changes here! The raised yellow key room was a nice touch, and I liked that the secret was a chaingun which helped spice up the combat. Some nice improvements here.

 

@BeachThunder UV Max demo for MAP28 1.2. Was able to exit with full items, kills, & secrets.

Edited September 8, 2023 by Moustachio

[MrBlaskovitz]

Final revision of 'Heaven Can Wait"

I'm sorry that it took me a bit do do almost nothing, my bad, I was procrastinating.

I changed the music and some stuff in the game, enjoy this last update Moustachio!

Heaven Can Wait (MAP19).rar

[Tangra]

@BeachThunder i've only played the first version so far but i loved what you have going here. For such a small and cramped space, you made something memorable and full of surprises. I can't really nitpick anything, maybe not everyone will like the cramped spaces, but the restriction should be taken into consideration, and i personally don't mind a little bit of claustrophobia in a Doom level, as long as it's not unforgiving.

 

@Mario2560 i like your map, it feels like a continuation of MrBlaskovitz's level. Like they're part of the same office building on different floors, or something like that. I need to replay it, because i've only tested the first version and that was a few days ago, so i'm not sure if i can do it justice. My only complaint with yours and @MrBlaskovitz map remains the difficulty, which i feel is too low compared to the maps that preceed them. I should play the latest versions of both maps though...

Edited September 10, 2023 by Tangra

[Tangra]

20 hours ago, MrBlaskovitz said:

Final revision of 'Heaven Can Wait"

 

I know that feeling, but you should never say "final"...

 

I've played it, and you have two stuck enemies in the first office space, on top of the cubicle and behind the computer monitor in this pic:

 

Spoiler

 

I really like it visually, even though you seem set on leaving the windows like that, they don't look that bad. I like the Doomcute stuff a lot. The enemies however lack variety. There are only shotgunners, zombiemen, a few chaingunners, pinkies and your Boss of the map is a single hell knight... combat-wise, this feels like map 02, almost like Underhalls. Oh though Underhalls uses its space a lot better, with more narrow corridors, loops, shortcuts, monster closets, exploding barrels, height and light variation. And even Underhalls gives you more weapon variety with the SSG, which is nowhere to be found here... or i somehow missed it (let me know if i did). For map 19, you should consider throwing a few revenants in that teleport encounter at the end, maybe even an archvile... You can also place some revenants as turrets on top of big copy machines. Of course, if you add tougher monsters, you should also drop an SSG, or a rocket launcher somewhere in the map.

Edited September 10, 2023 by Tangra

[MrBlaskovitz]

10 minutes ago, Tangra said:

 

I know that feeling, but you should never say "final"...

 

I've played it, and you have two stuck enemies in the first office space, on top of the cubicle and behind the computer monitor in this pic:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

I really like it visually, even though you seem set on leaving the windows like that, they don't look that bad. I like the Doomcute stuff a lot. The enemies however lack variety. There are only shotgunners, zombiemen, a few chaingunners, pinkies and your Boss of the map is a single hell knight... combat-wise, this feels like map 02, almost like Underhalls. Oh though Underhalls uses its space a lot better, with more narrow corridors, loops, shortcuts, monster closets, exploding barrels, height and light variation. And even Underhalls gives you more weapon variety with the SSG, which is nowhere to be found here... or i somehow missed it (let me know if i did). For map 19, you should consider throwing a few revenants in that teleport encounter at the end, maybe even an archvile... You can also place some revenants as turrets on top of big copy machines. Of course, if you add tougher monsters, you should also drop an SSG, or a rocket launcher somewhere in the map.