Mapping process: when to build vs decorate environments?

[Burgish]

I'm pretty new to mapping, but I think I'm getting the hang of it.  I find I get really caught up with tiny little details sometimes and filling out the visuals of an area or its 'furniture' before completing the mechanical elements or moving on to finish building something.

 

I'd appreciate some perspective from more experienced mappers.  How do you tackle map building?  Do you finish the map first, or decorate along the way?  Do you have a strict process, does it change based on the level, or do you let is happen organically?

[Asbadagba]

I'd say draw out the layout and then do the texturing/detailing/etc.

I used to draw a room, detail it and then move on to the next, but the problem with that is it makes it much more difficult to reform rooms; like in case you want to add a new connection to another part of the map or make the room bigger/smaller, it's going to be a lot harder to do that if you've already done the detailing. If it's a junction then you're not going to have many options for redrawing because then it has to either connect with the detailing of the rooms around it or you have to redraw a larger portion of the map. This can of course still happen during post detailing, but not nearly as often as in the planning phase.

[Ravendesk]

My mapping process is very chaotic, I work on layout parts, visuals or fights depending on what I feel like doing right now or what I have ideas for.

 

Although when doing detailing I always try to keep in mind where I want to expand the map and add new areas or connection, so that I don't end up needing to delete it later.

 

For fights specifically I often try to make a draft of a fight along with the layout, so that I can change it right away if it's not working. Or at least to imagine what kind of fight can be here and account for that beforehand (e.g. if I expect to fight archviles here do I have sufficient LoS cover or not).

 

I honestly think any process works as long as it keeps you engaged with the map. If you are stuck on drawing layout - playtest some fights, layout ideas will come later. If you don't feel like designing a fight in room A, detail room B for now, that distraction might get your brain working in the right direction and the fight ideas will come as well.

 

But if that doesn't work for you, and distraction makes you less motivated - well, do it all in order then.

Edited September 8, 2023 by Ravendesk

[Bobby :D]

When it comes to layouts and design, I think the best thing you can do is not over complicate any part of the process, and the way I've tried to do it is to make the general shaping of the layout out of as few basic overlapping shapes as possible. This will give you a lot of room to flesh out both your layout and your detailing. Keeping elements simple and with willing to iterate or remove later on will remove a lot of the frustrations with the mapping process. As far as staging, I like to get the layout done first because I inform most of my detailing around the shaping of architecture and pacing out areas with contrasting features.

Edited September 8, 2023 by Bobby "J

[Arrowhead]

I only really map for deathmatch / CTF now.

 

I just start drawing and connecting shapes... Eventually I come up w/ something.

 

I often don't even know what my theme is going to be until I'm nearly done 100% of the geometry / architecture.

 

I do things in the same order generally, I find it helps me be more time efficient:

 

1) All geometry / architecture (includes machinery like elevators and teleporters)

2) All lighting.

3) All lighting effects. (Glow, flicker, etc.)

4) All border textures.

5) All other textures.

6) Item placement.

7. Spawns / balancing

8. Make sure to use all the frames of the animations I chose somewhere in my WAD, so that when I use the Slade maintenance tools, they don't get messed up.

9. 'Final' clean-up (fixing misalignments, re-balancing ammo / power-ups, etc.)

10. SLADE3 stuff: Add sky, write MAPINFO, add INTERPIC, TITLEPIC, M_DOOM, add music, add sounds, etc.

11. Use Slade3 maintenance tools to remove excess textures.

12. Compatibility testing (Zdaemon, Zandronum, Odamex)

13. Playtesting

14. Readme

15. Release.

 

 

:)

[Stabbey]

You're missing the third key thing: playtest.

 

I always playtest areas to get a feel about how they play before decorating. This is so if the gameplay does not work as expected in my mind, it's easier to make changes without needing to fiddle with moving decoration around. For this reason, I never complete an entire map, decorate it, polish how it looks, then put enemies in last.

 

Mechanical elements should always go in before decorative ones.

["JL" was too short]

I tend to do a balanced, back-and-forth approach.  As @Asbadagba mentioned above, going too hard in detailing before a region is properly laid out has its drawbacks, but by the same token I have a hard time really envisioning or being able to move on from an area before I've composed at least a representative amount of its aesthetics.  So I'll block something out, do a rough draft of the detailing, then perhaps move on.

Additionally, I often have different days when I want to do different things on a level.  So, for as long as possible, it helps to have some detail left to add to the map somewhere and other areas left to be blocked out somewhere, so that I can shift from one sort of task to the other as needed to keep me feeling engaged.

[Sneezy McGlassFace]

I'm just mapping for a little while (year and half or so) but I did change my process.
I started with making a room, doing the detailing, thing placement and everything, and then move onto another room, and do the same cycle. But some time ago I started going in passes. Mainly because I noticed how the individual areas feel very disconnected. Lots of gameplay and theme changes.
Now I only make the basic layout first. Lines and height variations. The entire level, or vast majority of it. Run through it, if it's fun to move in it can stay, if it's not, it needs to be redone. Place monsters and pickups, and test religiously. Keeping tweaking things until it feels right. If it doesn't, I can make even pretty major changes without wasting much of time and effort. At this point, the entire level is rough geometry in default textures. Plus, I use liquids, doors, platforms, and switch textures to mark functional elements. Only when I'm satisfied with that, (and perhaps got somebody else to play the prototype too,) then I move on to texturing, detailing, and lighting. And then test again, in case I messed up something like monsters getting stuck on details, check if darkness obscures some previously obvious paths, and so on.

Though, I often leave an area completely empty, even while I'm at the texturing stage of the rest of the map. In case I get tired of that, I can go back to drawing lines to spice things up. Helps a lot with bigger maps not to get burned out.

Edited September 8, 2023 by Sneezy McGlassFace

[Bobby :D]

1 hour ago, Stabbey said:

I always playtest areas to get a feel about how they play before decorating. This is so if the gameplay does not work as expected in my mind, it's easier to make changes without needing to fiddle with moving decoration around. For this reason, I never complete an entire map, decorate it, polish how it looks, then put enemies in last.

Adding on to this, doing a bunch of minature playtests of sections of the map over and over is a poor form of playtesting. You realisitically won't get an amazing perspective on the entire map's feel and pacing till like the last 5% of the process, which is when the complete playtests happen and then and there you have a good idea on what to iterate or remove. Again, the philosophy of keeping it simple applies here, the less hassle and fidgeting with miniscule thing placement at the start, the more room for iteration later on in the process.

[Jayextee]

Mapping for vanilla might be one exercise that could help get you out of that habit. Detail comes at a premium when you're trying to make an interconnected open area that won't crash Chocolate DOOM or cause HOMs.

[DynamiteKaitorn]

Pretty much I just go with the flow when it comes to my design. If my brain thinks "Ooo! Let's make this map a red + black techbase!" Than it is! I generally detail a bit as I go along with my mapping. I like to have a fairly decent layout and some details before I go further with it. One thing I also try to do nowadays (and I think it's helped a fair bit) is try to think "okay the player is here. Will they go here, here or here next?" Cause of this I've started to be less linear (somewhat) in my mapping style.

 

Oh and when it comes to adding Midi's: I ALWAYS add them in post! I like to add music to the map I've made, not the other way round. :3

[aRottenKomquat]

As with most things in Doom mapping, it's highly subjective: Depends on who you are and what keeps you going. I tend to work on details while I'm mapping, rather than later. Otherwise everything looks so bland I don't feel inspired and can't figure out what the next area should be.

[Bridgeburner56]

Blockout > Combat > Detailing is the standardised 'professional' workflow and it works well for a lot of people. But if you're not in a AAA team then you can do whatever you want. Personally I roll everything together. I'll build a space with a purpose in mind which can really be anything. A specific combat idea, important progression element like a key, a transition section between major areas, or just something visually impressive (looking cool is a purpose), an epic door to reveal something momentous. But I'm also highly driven by aesthetics so I'll get into detailing right from the get go. Figure out what kind of arch designs I want to use, a pillar shape, how I want a set of stairs to look, what kind of lighting and shadowing I'm going to use (lighting also ties heavily to the purpose of the space). I might have some specific reference images that I'm using, either for the overall look or a specific element within the broader design. What textures I'm using will inform what shapes and layering I use in an area so I'll always pick what core textures I'm using early. My methods are largely holistic.

At the end of the day everyone has different workflows and the only way to find what works best for you is to experiment. I've sunk well over 10000 hours into Doombuilder over the last 5 years and I'm still changing how I do things (wooo model export tool). Keep in mind the moment you stop trying new things is the moment you stop learning new things. I'm not saying there's anything inherently bad about sticking heavily with something that works, comfy is good. But I find it fun to see what new things I can and explore new ideas, and having fun should be the primary reason for doing this (why would you do something you don't enjoy?). I guess my point here is don't feel beholden to a single process or any one piece of advice (including mine) c:

[jaeden]

My mapping workflow is usually:

 

1) Make 2-3 rooms, fully detailed, as a proof of concept of map theme.

2) Create rough layout, totally untextured/undetailed.

3) Detail-up that rest of map.

4) Populate with monsters and items.

[Somniac]

I've tried a bunch of times to block out a map first, but I can never seem to stick to it. I usually end up in a slightly awkward middle ground of detailing/testing existing areas while making new ones and thinking how to fit them all together. 

[Nootrac4571]

I'm not the most prolific mapper so take my advice with a pinch of salt, but I do try to cram as much detail in as possible. My technique, for what it's worth, is to block out the entire level using only the default editor textures. There was a playable start-to-end version of Demonastery that was 90% STARTAN before I went to town on texturing and architectural detail. That's not to say I didn't have an idea what I wanted it to look like: I knew the visual theme I was going for, and had a vague idea of what each area was going to look like. But I didn't bother spending any time on detail or texturing until I had a working map that was fun to play through.

[Murderous Owl]

Not that experienced with doom mapping specifically, however I am experienced with mapping for source games, and while my mapping styles for the doom engine and source engine vary greatly, I still use my way of making maps, with a few added things for making Doom maps.

 

1) Make some rooms and add some textures. I don't detail it too much, just what I want to use for the "default" textures of the map to see how it feels

2) Finish the rest of the layout (including secrets), adding platforms and such, and either adding the space for doors/adding doors that don't have any line actions attached to them yet, and keeping in mind which doors i want to be keycard/switch activated, and keeping in mind where to put switches for other things

 

3) Add function to the map and then playing through the map to see how if it looks good altogether

 

4) Add monsters, monster closets, ammo, and weapons

 

5) Playtest and adjust the map when needed

 

6) Add details that aren't related to gameplay, fixing or changing textures, adding lighting get other people to playtest my map and get their opinion

 

Of course, this is just how I do things, and you can develope your own way of mapping the works for you, however try not to add a room, detail it fully, and work on the next room as that can be pretty ineffecient.

[kdoom]

I would assume a mappers' methods evolve over time. For example, after making around....well a lot of maps, I'm pretty good at predicting dooms monster behavior in a map. My main focus from the start, is usually the main layout...texture motif,  connections and overlaps, etc. Setting up locked doors, and where the key or switch placement should be. I do add some monsters into certain areas as I go, but I almost always leave the biggest part of the population, for the last days of editing a map.

[baja blast rd.]

The only truth is that dogmatism is wrong.

 

One example is that it might make sense that if you're working on a gameplay-centric map, you'd want to meticulously test gameplay before doing aesthetics -- but if you're good enough at designing a whole map's gameplay and having it function like you imagined in your head before you even test/play it once, that isn't necessary, and there might be reasons to work on aesthetics first instead. (And that is possible, not just a made-up example. I've done it many times, and some people are even better than me at that.) 

 

My approach is most similar to Ravendesk's. Even basic layout design can be chaotic for me, lots of unclosed sectors and shapes late into the process. I'll do stuff like place items in the map because they feel right and then figure out what they'll be used for two weeks later.

[NightRiding Doom]

Thing about mapping is, you should never try to constrain your own way of building the map. Be it detailing every room from start to finish right away, building general mechanics first, or doing it how I and many others do: Build some basic, then play and see how it jogs your imagination, then continue building while slowly detailing, as you build doors, windows, switches, hallways and everything else that suddenly needs to be built.

 

You can constraint what, who, when and where, but never constrain how, unless it's dangerous to you or someone else