Is this Mac/PC Doom source code on ebay legit?

[Monocled]

The bid ended. Did a Doomworld or Zdoom forum user nab it?

[kevansevans]

I have a strong feeling this is real. Way too much effort would have been invested to fake all those screenshots to every minute detail. If not, congrats you absolute bastard of a troll, hope that $5k goes somewhere useful.

[gibfrag]

1 hour ago, Monocled said:

The bid ended. Did a Doomworld or Zdoom forum user nab it?

I know that it is in good hands. That’s all I’ll say and all I can say, now everyone just needs to sit back and relax! 

Edited September 12, 2023 by gibfrag

[Midway64]

Are you predicting or did the buyer tell that to you?

If so, that's good.

[Monocled]

2 minutes ago, Midway64 said:

Are you predicting or did the buyer tell that to you?

If so, that's good.

I mean he says he knows who has it and that its in good hands so i trust him

[Blast_Brothers]

I mean, id still owns the original source, right? I imagine the buyer would want to stay under the radar so they don't get sued when they release it

[Monocled]

1 minute ago, Blast_Brothers said:

I mean, id still owns the original source, right? I imagine the buyer would want to stay under the radar so they don't get sued when they release it

But that would only mean trouble for the seller right?

[Midway64]

1 hour ago, Blast_Brothers said:

I mean, id still owns the original source, right? I imagine the buyer would want to stay under the radar so they don't get sued when they release it

 

The Linux Doom (1.10) source code is under the GPL license, and I mean, I don't think they have put a proprietary license into the original source yet, so we can assume we're free to use it.

 

And John Romero already released a shit-ton of development assets for free, so there's also that.

[dasho]

4 minutes ago, Midway64 said:

The Linux Doom (1.10) source code is under the GPL license, and I mean, I don't think they have put a proprietary license into the original source yet, so we can assume we're free to use it.

 

That's not how that works. If it has no license, it is technically completely proprietary. If it does have one, it would really depend on what that is.

[Midway64]

My bad then.

[Individualised]

2 hours ago, Midway64 said:

 

The Linux Doom (1.10) source code is under the GPL license, and I mean, I don't think they have put a proprietary license into the original source yet, so we can assume we're free to use it.

 

And John Romero already released a shit-ton of development assets for free, so there's also that.

Romero wasn't supposed to do that and it's well known that id Software told him to knock it off. Just because something is unreleased doesn't mean it's not protected by copyright law, in fact it's more like the opposite. A company obviously doesn't want confidential stuff being leaked.

[Doom64hunter]

There's something interesting to be gathered from the file listing of the midis:

 

Quote

Original Music Ä    2.0M
  ADRIAN.MID    6K
  AMPIE.MID    17K
  BETWE2.MID    26K
  BETWEE.MID    26K
  BUNNY.MID    7K
  COUNTD.MID    19K
  COUNTDN.MID    19K
  DDTBL2.MID    62K
  DDTBL3.MID    62K
  DDTBLU.MID    62K
  DDTBLUES.MID    62K
  DEAD.MID    22K
  DEAD2.MID    22K
  DM2INT.MID    21K
  DM2TTL.MID    4K
  DOOM.MID    24K
  DOOM2.MID    24K
  DOOM3.MID    24K
  E1M1.MID    21K
  E1M1.MID.2    27K
  E1M2.MID    33K
  E1M2.MID.2    43K
  E1M3.MID    23K
  E1M4.MID    20K
  E1M5.MID    10K
  E1M6.MID    11K
  E1M7.MID    10K
  E1M8.MID    55K
  E1M9.MID    25K
  E2M1.MID    29K
  E2M2.MID    22K
  E2M3.MID    31K
  E2M4.MID    8K
  E2M5.MID    10K
  E2M6.MID    11K
  E2M7.MID    7K
  E2M8.MID    42K
  E2M9.MID    17K
  E3M1.MID    17K
  E3M2.MID    19K
  E3M3.MID    30K
  E3M4.MID    55K
  E3M5.MID    10K
  E3M6.MID    11K
  E3M7.MID    7K
  E3M8.MID    19K
  E3M9.MID    25K
  EVIL.MID    12K
  INTER.MID    31K
  INTRO.MID    2K
  IN_CIT.MID    33K
  MESSAG.MID    24K
  OPENIN.MID    27K
  READ_M.MID    37K
  ROMERO.MID    44K
  RUNNI2.MID    30K
  RUNNIN.MID    30K
  SHAWN.MID    26K
  SHAWN2.MID    26K
  SHAWN3.MID    26K
  STALKS.MID    27K
  STLKS2.MID    27K
  STLKS3.MID    27K
  TENSE.MID    38K
  THEDA2.MID    21K
  THE_DA.MID    21K
  ULTIMA.MID    13K
  VICTOR.MID    15K

 

Notice how the following filenames aren't actually present in Doom 2, according to the Doom Wiki: (https://doomwiki.org/wiki/Doom_II_music)

 

Quote

BETWE2.MID
COUNTDN.MID
DDTBLUES.MID
DOOM3.MID

 

While at the same time, the following filenames are missing from the listing, which are present in Doom 2:

Quote

COUNT2.MID
MESSG2.MID
ROMER2.MID
THEDA3.MID

 

Hypothesis: MAP24 (THEDA3.MID), MAP26 (MESSG2.MID) and MAP27 (ROMER2.MID) had a music swap at the last second.

 

And as for MAP21 (COUNT2.MID), I'm guessing the music file was simply renamed from COUNTDN.MID to COUNT2.MID.

Edited September 18, 2023 by Doom64hunter

[Individualised]

Good catch. In the final version of Doom 2 the version of The Dave T. Taylor Blues that plays on later levels is also an earlier version, that might be related.

Edited September 18, 2023 by Individualised

[MacPlay]

Think different. 

Edited September 19, 2023 by MacPlay

[Lunick]

21 minutes ago, MacPlay said:

Looks like it made its way to archive.org. 

Joined

24 minutes ago

Did you do this?

[MacPlay]

20 minutes ago, Lunick said:

Did you do this?

Spoiler

 

Edited September 19, 2023 by MacPlay

[Monocled]

Just now, Lunick said:

 Joined

24 minutes ago

Did you do this?

Also there name is MacPlay. But whoever did it wants to remain anonymous, So it doesn't really matter

[MacPlay]

1 minute ago, Monocled said:

MacPlay

 

[Monocled]

3 minutes ago, MacPlay said:

 

Oh

[esselfortium]

My findings so far:

 

The CD image can be mounted in a classic Mac emulator like SheepShaver or Basilisk II. I've only tried it with SheepShaver (PPC Mac emulator) so far, but Basilisk (68k Mac emulator) should also work.

 

The included CodeWarrior (IDE) version is CodeWarrior 7. The project files are the ones with .µ extensions.

 

The Mac Ultimate Doom source included works with CodeWarrior 7 out-of-the-box, but the included Mac Doom II 1.0.2 source is for CodeWarrior 6, and needs a couple of easy updates ported over from the Ultimate Doom project:

• Copy over the DGMacHeader68k and DGMacHeaderPPC files from UDOOM 1.0.2:sys:MacHeadersƒ: and replace the older versions in the Doom II 1.0.2 project's equivalent subfolder
• Find the Sound Manager version check in I_MAIN.C (trying to compile will error on this and clicking the error will take you right to it), and replace it with the ifdef'd version from the UDoom source: 

  #ifndef __powerc
  	vers = SndSoundManagerVersion();
  	if ((vers & 0xFF000000L) < 0x03000000L)
  #else
  	vers = SndSoundManagerVersion();
  	if (vers.majorRev < 3)
  #endif
  	{
  		ParamText("\pDoom II requires Sound Manager 3.0 or later in order to run. Exiting to Finder.", "\p", "\p", "\p");
  		InitCursor();
  		Alert(rAlertErrGeneral, NULL);
  		goto ShowAndBail;
  	}

  Also add the necessary ifdef to the InitManagers struct:

  void InitManagers (void)
  {
   	tWord						i, err;
   	MenuHandle			menu;
   	long						result;
  #ifndef __powerc
   	long						vers;
  #else
  	NumVersion			vers;
  #endif
  	FileFilterUPP		doomFileFilterProc;
  	short					numCalled;
  	EventRecord			macEvent;

  Press cmd-M or pick Make from the Project menu, and it should successfully compile Doom II now.

[TheZombieKiller]

There appears to be a scrapped level(?) in the /UltDoom/PC/From id/ directory (NEW.WAD):

 

1 minute ago, esselfortium said:

The included CodeWarrior (IDE) version is CodeWarrior 7. The project files are the ones with .µ extensions.

It also seems to have CodeWarrior 5 in the /DOOM II 1.0 7.14.95/CW5/ directory.

[esselfortium]

Just now, TheZombieKiller said:

It also seems to have CodeWarrior 5 in the /DOOM II 1.0 7.14.95/CW5/ directory.

Good catch! I completely overlooked that.

[taufan99]

3 minutes ago, TheZombieKiller said:

There appears to be a scrapped level(?) in the /UltDoom/PC/From id/ directory (NEW.WAD):

Ooh nice finding! @Individualised I reckon we could probably put this to a good use. But why would a DOOM II map be placed in an Ultimate DOOM directory?

[The Almighty Egg]

So did this turn out to be legit or not?

[gibfrag]

7 minutes ago, The Almighty Egg said:

So did this turn out to be legit or not?

Did you by chance happen to read any of the above recent posts before deciding to ask this question? :)

Edited September 19, 2023 by gibfrag

[Monocled]

2 minutes ago, The Almighty Egg said:

So did this turn out to be legit or not?

It was uploaded to the internet archive and its all there

Edited September 19, 2023 by Monocled

[Doom64hunter]

DDTBLUES.mid is interesting, it contains both the Kalimba from DDTBLU.mid, as well as the Splash Cymbal from DDTBL2.MID and DDTBL3.mid. So in other words, it's a third version of that song, possibly the original that the other 2 were derived from.

 

Also, this contains the original midis + metadata to READ_M.mid and ULTIMA.mid, which were missing from the OS/2 files.

 

ULTIMA.MID

 

Quote

09 Meta 3: <"The Ultimate       >
10 Meta 3: <     Conquest"      >
11 Meta 3: <Copyright, 1992     >
12 Meta 3: <Robt. C. Prince, III>

 

READ_M.MID

Quote

34 Meta 3: <"Read Me While Listening To This">
35 Meta 3: <Bobby Prince>

 

[Individualised]

While this is exciting, it is arguably a leak and I'm not sure if I am comfortable discussing this at the moment until it's clearer that id Software don't care about it. If it turns out that they do care and don't want this available, I will respect their decision and will not condone this unfortunately for obvious reasons and won't be using anything from this in a theoretical DEV2.WAD anytime soon.

Edited September 19, 2023 by Individualised

[nukeykt]

can confirm that DOS doom sources are legit. DMX (dmx37lib), makefile/newdoom.lnk, DEFS.INC are missing but can be grabbed from elsewhere, e.g. gamesrc-ver-recreation. Using watcom 9.5b and then removing debug data and appending dos4gw I got exes that are identical to original ones, byte-by-byte.

Edited September 19, 2023 by nukeykt

[zokum]

I don't think they really cared much about what Romero did. They did the bare minimum to avoid widespread use in commercial products and losing trademarks and copyrights etc. If they had actually been bothered, they would have sued Romero. Maybe him living in Ireland would have complicated it so much that no matter what, it would still be a loss. It could turn into a PR disaster as the commercial value of these assets is low. From a preservation, documentation and fan-base view, they are priceless. The missing rotations arguably improves the game.

It's a shame they didn't add in all that extra jazz in a later download-only patch. That way they could have distributed the "small" version on disks and people could get the improved version with very little effort. Not everyone had modems, but most of the people from back then who were computer enthusiasts that I knew had modems. One person I know even had his own BBS.

This could possibly help a bit with the Chocolate Doom compatibility and answer some unanswered questions about the DOS version. It could be a boon for projects like Fastdoom.