Freedoom needs more attention

[SHEYDE X43]

Freedoom in my opinion has a great soundtrack and good map design and the sprite design is really good I don’t understand why it’s so underrated it deserves more attention sure it’s a (free) doom but phase 2 especially needs more attention I mean version 0.12.1 is in my opinion has a badass soundtrack equally good as DOOM  

[LadyMistDragon]

There's not tons of point to it when it's incredibly easy to pirate for those willing to put in minimal amounts of effort? The sprite design is a matter of opinion in any case. It plays fine but it...doesn't do anything to stand out in any way?? There aren't exactly lots of standout qualities.

[gibfrag]

Freedoom is rather generic and mostly pointless, mostly. 

[DoomGappy]

It kinda suffers the curse of the "generic version of product" others mentioned. I get the reason why it is the way it is, but it could be a lot better. It's a curse Linux systems suffered in the 90s and 2000s, but which was broken recently with more modern and unique distros that aren't just windows copies.

[Murdoch]

I have to confess I have never understood the aim of FreeDoom. Doom's hardly been an expensive game to purchase for a very, very long time so giving people a way of not paying for it struck me as a bit odd. I understand people can use it's resources as a base for other things as well, but still. The amount of effort versus the actual end result after 20 years of development does not seem to have really been worth it.

[Faceman2000]

1 hour ago, Murdoch said:

I have to confess I have never understood the aim of FreeDoom. Doom's hardly been an expensive game to purchase for a very, very long time so giving people a way of not paying for it struck me as a bit odd. I understand people can use it's resources as a base for other things as well, but still. The amount of effort versus the actual end result after 20 years of development does not seem to have really been worth it.

It made sense when they started it twenty years ago as Doom was getting harder to find and the internet hadn’t yet fully become the massive online marketplace it is today. Nowadays though it doesn’t serve much purpose in its quest to be public domain, and also that train station map with all the hitscanners can go screw itself.

[Scypek2]

It's a stand-alone copyright-free Doom engine game you can do anything with. Due to its nature Freedoom would've had a lot of value even with every map being empty and every sprite being drawn in MS Paint. The fact that it actually looks and plays pretty decently is just a bonus.

[Metal_Slayer]

When the Freedoom project started Doom and Doom 2 weren't available to legally buy on PC (I think), so it was very important at the time to have a file people could share anywhere in order to expand the community. It was also very important for standalone mod packages, but nowadays people usually create their own iwads (or ipk3s) and you can buy both games for literally cents on sales.

But Freedoom got a lot of attention for some time, the fourth episode, Double Impact, had some pretty big names working on it, which is why it's the best one, and it even got ported to the new Doom official releases.

[Morksim51]

yes freedom is a nice project that the dev put there heart into to it and also its a free alternative for players !

[OpenRift]

I think in order to enjoy Freedoom you have to understand it's purpose as an IWAD. I think having a free and legally clean option for playing Doom PWADs without buying Doom is an interesting and novel idea and I think it succeeds in that right. Personally I'm not as big of a fan of Freedoom's graphics, but the levels and music are pretty nice. 

[Celestin]

I get why it exists, but the monster sprites are a huge turn-off for me.

[Zero the Red]

Assuming that I put the FOSS nature of Freedoom aside for a moment, with where it stands as of today, the levels, music, and even the sprites have received considerable improvements and revamps. The latest autobuild is a treat to play. Granted there are a few sprites still need tweaks (the Large Technospider or Freedoom's Spider Mastermind, for example, needs a total overhaul), everything else looks great to me personally.

[liPillON]

are all monsters and weapons simple sprite-swaps or is there anything dehacked-like involved?

how's the quality of the maps themselves?

 

I'm curious about how both iwad would play as standard udoom/doom2 megawads..

 

I guess one could either:

- take maps and midis from the freedoom iwads, copy them in dedicated pwads and play them using doom/doom2 iwads

- use the freedoom iwads, load soundbulb+gfxupscale pwads on top of them and play 

Edited September 14, 2023 by liPillON

[Professor Hastig]

7 hours ago, Murdoch said:

The amount of effort versus the actual end result after 20 years of development does not seem to have really been worth it.

 

This is the main issue with it. Over the last 20+ years lots of projects have been made - including many with high quality custom assets.

And yet, Freedoom thoroughly managed not to get the attention it would have needed. The assets are all over the place, the textures are inconsistent and most of the maps are as generic and boring as they come. It also hasn't helped that after 10+ years some people decided that Boom wasn't the right target anymore and started demodernizing the existing maps.

 

If you ask me, the main problem is not lack of desire or lack of effort but simply inefficient project leadership that caused the current situation where after almost a quarter of a century the project still isn't finished.

[banjiepixel]

8 hours ago, Murdoch said:

I have to confess I have never understood the aim of FreeDoom. Doom's hardly been an expensive game to purchase for a very, very long time so giving people a way of not paying for it struck me as a bit odd. I understand people can use it's resources as a base for other things as well, but still. The amount of effort versus the actual end result after 20 years of development does not seem to have really been worth it.

 

Open source people are going to open source, that's the main point. I personally prefer to always use open source alternatives even if there is a cheap or freeware software that is technically better.

 

And as a very niche hobbyist project, Freedoom is doing nicely, everything is fully functional at this point. There might be some things here and there that are not very pretty to look at and need more polished replacement, but back when I first started to use Freedoom, many levels were just one room placeholders, alot of the sounds were missing and multiple enemies did not even have a functional spriteset.

 

Version 0.12 was technically the first Freedoom release to be actually complete. That is much bigger achievement than you might think.

Edited September 14, 2023 by banjiepixel

[Sneezy McGlassFace]

In my eyes, the biggest strength is the legality like Scypek2 and OpenRift said. There's been a few threads regarding development of entirely new doom game that isn't based on gzdoom you may wanna look up if interested. The doom engine is open sourced but the doom art assets aren't. So having the freedoom iwad as a base to work with is really nice. 

This is not a legal advice. Do your own research. 

[Jayextee]

11 hours ago, LadyMistDragon said:

There's not tons of point to it when it's incredibly easy to pirate for those willing to put in minimal amounts of effort?

How can one "pirate" something that is, by design, completely free; both as in 'free beer' and 'liberty'?

If you just want a DOOM game with which to start playing user content but can't afford (somehow) the original? Fine, FreeDOOM's got your back.

If you want a 'base' game to modify and eventually make your own but you need to be sure all the placeholders are legally available to use just to watch your own hide? Well boy howdy lookie here FreeDOOM's also good to go.

 

We (and I say this as an occasional contributor, although I'm unsure how much of my effort remains; I know I did the initial smallfont which lasted about a decade until it was replaced by a far better version) put in the effort just so people can put in minimal effort if they wish. FreeDOOM is free to do with as you please, and that right there is what's so absolutely great about it.

[Matthias]

Just released my megawad, when three songs from Freedoom are used. :)

[RjY]

38 minutes ago, Jayextee said:

12 hours ago, LadyMistDragon said:

There's not tons of point to it when it's incredibly easy to pirate for those willing to put in minimal amounts of effort?

How can one "pirate" something that is, by design, completely free; both as in 'free beer' and 'liberty'?

 

I think you may have misread the post to which you are replying, which to be fair is written with confusing ambiguity. I believe what was meant was

 

> There's not tons of point to [Freedoom] when it's incredibly easy to pirate [Doom/Doom2] for those willing to put in minimal amounts of effort?

[Jayextee]

Oh, right. Ah well, at least I'm clarifying for passers-by I guess. Notwithstanding, if people wanna pirate DOOM they'll do just that. If people don't wanna pirate DOOM but still want it for free (again, to do whatever they want with), then FreeDOOM's their bro. FreeDOOM will buy the next round of drinks despite being the designated driver. FreeDOOM's here for ya, kid. It's okay to cry, let it out, whatever's buggin' ya FreeDOOM's here to listen.

[dasho]

Everybody wants a better Freedoom, but nobody wants to lift no heavy-ass creation tools.

[Klickach]

8 hours ago, Celestin said:

I get why it exists, but the monster sprites are a huge turn-off for me.

I totally agree with you. Several years ago, when I was just getting into Doom, I decided to install FreeDoom. It was kinda nice but GODDAMN I WAS HORRIFIED OF THIS MONSTERS and they still make me feel a bit dizzy

[fraggle]

14 hours ago, LadyMistDragon said:

There's not tons of point to it when it's incredibly easy to pirate for those willing to put in minimal amounts of effort?

 

13 hours ago, Murdoch said:

I have to confess I have never understood the aim of FreeDoom. Doom's hardly been an expensive game to purchase for a very, very long time so giving people a way of not paying for it struck me as a bit odd.

 

10 hours ago, OpenRift said:

I think having a free and legally clean option for playing Doom PWADs without buying Doom is an interesting and novel idea

 

That's not the point of Freedoom.

 

I recently added this section to the Freedoom manual. Take a look and maybe it will help to better explain the purpose of the project.

[SHEYDE X43]

listen i only like freedoom because of its music but thats just me

[DerBlanca]

I don't know... people wanted to create this thing, they did, hopefully they had fun doing it. Not sure what's the point of splitting hair about supposed 'usefulness', points to be had or higher purposes. Don't you ever do stuff... just because you can? just because it wasn't there before, and you want it to be there? 

Edited September 14, 2023 by DerBlanca

[SHEYDE X43]

well its a thing i like

 

[CasualScrub]

I understand that Freedoom, these days, doesn't have as much value as it would have like 20 years ago. But I still think it has value for existing, if for nothing else being a free full-size set of shooters that anyone can play. The argument of "Well Doom is cheap anyway" doesn't mean that a free Doom-like game shouldn't exist.

 

Sometimes I honestly like loading up Freedoom instead of regular Doom just for a change of pace.

[LavaWave]

I see Freedoom as a tool for making commercial doom tc's as it uses it's own iwad and assets rather than copyrighted assets from the original Doom games

 

Though Nash Standalone Game Template is a better tool for that purpose

[Wadmodder Shalton]

And version 1.0 of Freedoom Phases 1 & 2 still suffers from feature creep for any new levels to pass quality standards for being vanilla compatible, and most graphics yet to be replaced in the final version.

 

We need more mappers and more graphics artist involved for Freedoom.

[dasho]

1 hour ago, Wadmodder Shalton said:

And version 1.0 of Freedoom Phases 1 & 2 still suffers from feature creep for any new levels to pass quality standards for being vanilla compatible, and most graphics yet to be replaced in the final version.

 

How are either of those 'feature creep'?