Doom IP control/quality issue

[Scottier681]

I bring this issue to the doom community mainly about Doom but it applies to many issues with classic games. I'm not sure who is to blame but I feel a certain dread that Doom is slowly being taken away from our ability to have freedom to play it when, where and how we would like to. For example, Android ( or Google ) has currently hidden Bethesda doom apps finding it harder to either purchase or use, Freedoom app is no longer allowed to be updated( on mobile) and delta touch was able to win an appeal to stay on the play store. And while I do understand ROM sites are not wise, legal or right, our games are getting taken from us little by little. Even apple has doom but inferior ports which are probably soon to go. I guess I am worried will these tech giants try to stop all aspects of doom, any port work, any WAD/MOD projects, just so they can control what type of the product they want us to use? I'm sure this topic is as old as the hills but I often feel like no one seems to really care anymore except for game communities as loyal and great as the doom one is. I feel really bad for all the other game IPs suffering. Any opinions/thoughts? Sorry if this has already been discussed elsewhere.

[Professor Hastig]

Welcome to the wonderful corporate world of mobile where profit and control is everything which is gradually eroding our entire society because who cares that everything is going downhill as long as there's some profit to be made?

 

I'm not worried about Doom in this context, it's just a small part of the huge problem that's called the mobile internet.

 

[Kinsie]

You know you don't have to use the Google Play Store on Android, right?

 

iOS is also going to be required by the EU to allow sideloading at some point in the nigh future.

 

The problem at that point is more who wants to work on mobile ports. Hanging around the Emulation scene has taught me that the smartphone-based emulation/retrogaming scene can be, shall we say, enthusiastic in their requests towards programmers, to say the least.

[Lucius Wooding]

I take a few precautions myself:

 

-Be incredibly based and don't hand out exorbitant sums of money for rereleased games with no new content (I'm looking at you, Nintendo). Just because you're a fan, perhaps an incredibly loyal fan, of a franchise doesn't mean you can't spit in their face when they try to rob you (I'm looking at you, Link's Awakening remake remake for 60$ that runs worse than the GB original from 1993). Make sure if a game gets remade that it has some kind of appealing new features or content, or at least the price isn't a joke. Maybe wait for sales if you absolutely must, but generally I find it best to just hold onto the original versions.

 

-Keep physical copies of older games and working hardware. I made the mistake of selling consoles and discs before but luckily bought most of them back in time before the prices exploded. I bought most of my Gamecube games for like 10-15 bucks, good luck doing that now.

 

-I suggest you dump the ROMs/ISOs of every game you own and back them up. I personally did this with my 3DS and Wii/WiiU by installing homebrew software on them so I could use my own physical copies on the console itself to dump to an SD card. Remember that the actual gaming capabilities of the consoles can far outlast the moving parts, ie the disc drives. So I'm able to run my games on the console even if the drive fails, in addition to many of the games working perfectly on emulator. It's a project but it beats the fuck out of buying the games again every 5 years (if the ones I want are even available).

 

-If you bought games on an online store, it's likely you'll be able to similarly rip the important game files and back those up. However most of the companies will try to make this difficult, but fuck em. You paid for the game. An example of this would be if you bought Doom's Unity port but grabbed the Doom.WAD file to run it under DSDA or another source port.

 

-GOG is awesome for many older games that aren't really able to run on current platforms, like Diablo 1 for example. They port the games in a way that they'll run properly on modern systems while keeping them intact. They have a lot available and seem to keep things somewhat modding friendly and open once you pay for it.

 

-Mobile, either IOS or Android, are the absolute worst gaming platforms for a number of reasons. Not only are they touchscreen based and low spec compared to other systems, but they run on hardware designed to break every few years. Your handful of decent games that actually get made available on them can get broken by updates or outright pulled at any time because of how the app stores and OS have a stranglehold on every program you run. They don't really let you run homebrew or programs you want unless you jump through hoops, where at least Windows is a bit hands off and has a large developer base. And most mobile studios employ scumbag practices in general; the games are far better at extracting profit than being well made from a design perspective. Phones are designed to be easy to use, but impossible to have any actual control over as a user outside of what the app store lets you. And Windows and OSX are trying to be the same way to the extent they can get away with. 

 

-It helps to have a PC or other platform that you don't update any more, possibly not even connected to the internet at all. Once you get your shit working it can be smart to just leave it alone and run it for as long as possible. That way you can have your daily driver which may need to be kept updated on the latest OS, but your retro gaming PC can be a standalone fixture for what it is, in spite of the specs getting long in the tooth. It's less wasteful and can avoid certain headaches from shithead gaming companies that try to squeeze you. Personally I use my homebrewed Wii and 3DS; they can each run multiple entire console libraries natively as they're both backward compatible with physical games, and anything older off the SD card with emulators. So my Wii is hooked up to a CRT and can play anything from NES to Wii games, including GB and GBA (though I have an N64 since emulating it isn't as foolproof in some cases). Then my 3DS can run any Nintendo handheld as well as some SNES games (though sadly the PRBoom for it doesn't run well). I don't even play my Switch because most of the games for it are ports anyway (and 60$) that I already owned before.

 

-And finally, definitely don't pirate. The guilt you'll feel will ruin all the awesome free games, I'm sure. Personally I wouldn't risk it; paying full AAA price for a 20 year old title just seems like the better option.

[Shepardus]

I don't know what I was expecting from the thread title, but I definitely was not expecting this to be about mobile ports.

[Scottier681]

If you read correctly the mobile ports were just examples of a smaller micro nature of game IP control/dissapearence. But if you read all of it, it was about classic games, mainly doom, being quickly controlled and distributed in poor quality and it was also about ROMs (which i do understand to be illegal, and ethically wrong). I was just voicing concern about our classic games being taken away, forgotten or distributed out in corporate cheap versions and was really worried about doom, it's mod/wad projects, port projects and whether corporations would try to squeeze those out as well. It was NOT about mobile ports. That was an example. 🙄

Edited September 15, 2023 by Scottier681
Misspells

[dasho]

I think Doom is one of the last games where this concern is valid. When they stop distributing an IWAD (even one that differs from the vanilla version) with the latest ports that are released, then I think it would make more sense.

[SupremeBioVizier]

I'm going to hack my Nintendo mini because of this post

[EraserheadBaby]

I usually pay for games and other media because people deserve to be compensated for their work.  But if a company is leveraging the nostalgia and reputation of a classic IP they did nothing to create, then I could not care less. If greasy corporate sociopaths are going to use predatory business practices to wring people of as much money as possible while simultaneously providing a warped and/or inferior product, then it seems like a moral duty to set sail.  It's like leaving an abusive relationship.  To continue buying from a company engaging in these reprehensible business practices is just feeding the trolls.  Frankly, by changing the product and selling it as the original, they're committing fraud, imo.  One good turn deserves another.

 

Same holds true for music and movies, especially if the artist is dead.  For instance, I'd gladly buy an original cut of the Star Wars trilogy 4-6 if I could find one, but I can't.  So check the winds and up anchor.  I doubt any of those reeking pigs are going to miss a meal due to the money they wouldn't have gotten from me in the first place because they won't sell what I want. 

 

It is up to the community to keep the games in tact because the empty suits just care about the bottom line.  Lookin at you, unity.

[Scottier681]

Eraserheadbaby: appreciate your comments and opinions. As to each that has replied to what i wrote. Maybe I'm a bit "overly concerned" about game quality/preservation/corporate greed but I am so glad this doom community cares (it seems that way) about the "doomverse", gaming, classic games and keeping all this alive and quality based. I appreciate all the comments. Good to know you folks are out there and going strong!

[NiGHTMARE]

1 hour ago, Scottier681 said:

ROMs (which i do understand to be illegal, and ethically wrong). 🙄

 

ROMs aren't inherently illegal. If you legally own the physical media there's nothing unlawful about creating your own ROM from it, but obviously you can't distribute that ROM.

 

There are also places where you can legally download certain ROMs, sometimes for free and sometimes for money. The MAME website is a good example, as it includes only ROMS of games explicitly made freely available by their creators. There are also places like NES World that only have ROMS of homebrewed/fan games.

[DogsRNice]

On 9/14/2023 at 8:07 AM, Professor Hastig said:

Welcome to the wonderful corporate world of mobile where profit and control is everything which is gradually eroding our entire society because who cares that everything is going downhill as long as there's some profit to be made?

 

I'm not worried about Doom in this context, it's just a small part of the huge problem that's called the mobile internet.

 

Smartphones ruined the internet, I'll never change my mind on this, they were the perfect platform to make the garbage walled gardens we have to constantly deal with common

[Cutman 999]

On 9/14/2023 at 6:56 AM, Scottier681 said:

I bring this issue to the doom community mainly about Doom but it applies to many issues with classic games. I'm not sure who is to blame but I feel a certain dread that Doom is slowly being taken away from our ability to have freedom to play it when, where and how we would like to. For example, Android ( or Google ) has currently hidden Bethesda doom apps finding it harder to either purchase or use, Freedoom app is no longer allowed to be updated( on mobile) and delta touch was able to win an appeal to stay on the play store. And while I do understand ROM sites are not wise, legal or right, our games are getting taken from us little by little. Even apple has doom but inferior ports which are probably soon to go. I guess I am worried will these tech giants try to stop all aspects of doom, any port work, any WAD/MOD projects, just so they can control what type of the product they want us to use? I'm sure this topic is as old as the hills but I often feel like no one seems to really care anymore except for game communities as loyal and great as the doom one is. I feel really bad for all the other game IPs suffering. Any opinions/thoughts? Sorry if this has already been discussed elsewhere.

Responding to this seriously, is really exaggerated to say this about one of the most ported games in history, just because bethesda is making harder to have niche mobile ports. If you play doom, use your computer or anything else at your disposal, modded consoles come with doom almost by default, so doom would never become difficult to have access to.

 

Also, Delta touch is a crime against humanity.