What makes a good city level?

[Murderous Owl]

I'm currently working on a wad and had an idea for having a cyberdemon fight in the middle of a city, however I realized I have no idea what goes into making city levels. Any tips for making a good city level?

[NiGHTMARE]

My approach is to look at some of the existing city maps, and see what they did right (and wrong). Hellbound is my main go-to, but there's also Don't  Turn Your Back On the City, Planisphere 2, Escape from Slime City, and Extermination Day amongst others.

 

Real life city architecture has been a good source of inspiration, as well.

 

Edited September 15, 2023 by NiGHTMARE

[baja blast rd.]

I would play a bunch of city levels of different types (so, seek these out) and take notes on what they do well or interestingly, as well as ideas you get. Some negative notes are fine too, but need to be treated cautiously because you might be running into a map-specific implementation issue rather than a trope that doesn't work. 

 

While contextless guidelines are not worthless, you can get so much more information from playing even one or two maps. What's especially cool is that different maps have different approaches so you can start to interpolate those to ideas that haven't been done before. Hellbound map16, DTYBotC, Planisphere 2, Escape from Slime City (<- Nightmare's examples), Valiant map06, Steep Town, UVOLNIT map02, BTSXe3 demo map01, and you name it, do a lot differently from one another.

[DankMetal]

I have very little experience playing maps made by the community,so this opinion probably sucks.

I love when there's no predetermined way to play the map, you can go wherever you choose with no restrictions, bonus points if there's optional fights for those who wants 100% kills.

That's why i love MT. Erebus.

[openroadracer]

One thing I'd like to see more of is buildings with lots of open windows. This way, you're having to deal not only with the enemies inside the building you're in, but also the enemies from adjacent buildings as well.

[volleyvalley]

I have found myself enjoying more and more city levels, as long as they aren't too huge and sprawling, a great case in point: Revolution! - MAP04: "Phobopolis"

[Dreamskull]

When I think of a city I think of long roads and tall buildings. What really sells it though is city districting and interconnectivity between districts. Its all in on zoning, zoning, zoning - Its the ultimate setpeice because you have multiple setpeice that overlay each other from a distance WITH travel. Youve got the length, width and verticality that impresses upon having vantage. You dont fight monsters, you fight geometry, but youll soon discover that there is a heirarchy of vantage in a city. You need to find the better ground, but theres seemingly always something that puts you in the enemy crosshair. 

 

https://www.merriam-webster.com/thesaurus/coign of vantage

 

You should always always move to better ground in a city map because it offers vantage, but when you get there, gotta do it again.

  

 

This but with buildings or areas you create to defeat other buildings or areas, that are weak to other buildings or areas. There isnt a need to play into axiomatic balance, but this should be the feeling they have while in the thick of it. Thats the most important component. Do not forget that.

 

Also cities are known to have vehicles...

Edited September 21, 2023 by Dreamskull

[FletcherHonoroma]

What makes a city level? A few bull dozers and a demolitions team usually!
 

Joking aside, the best city levels offer exploration and freedom without ever obscuring the progression - it's an incredibly difficult balance to strike. The freedom to explore is quite inherent to the setting, giving ample opportunity for out of the way secrets and non-mandatory fights which never feel out of place (as long as the player is suitably rewarded) because of how sprawling the map should be.
The primary points of interest (those concerning the progression) should be well sign-posted and probably key locked. Make these buildings the most interesting ones! A nightclub, a shopping mall, a restaurant, go wild.

Verticality is also important. Every good city level needs that moment when you step on top of a building and look down on the city below, it gives your level the feel of an almost monumental scale.
In order to make verticality believable, make smart use of the space to give the illusion of three dimensionality to your buildings - not forgetting the tricks you can do to fake room-over-room.
I believe also (and this is less about gameplay) that 'Doom Cute' as it's been called, should be applied liberally. I want to see a Baron manning the counter of a deli.

[Dreamskull]

It would be cool to have variants of the fight youre imagining from different angles based on which direction they went to fight it. Its very difficult to build, cant/dont downplay that because that complexity is what the pros hunger for. One thing I forgot to mention is that flying monsters tend to be the most dangerous in these types of maps. Once they become aware of the player, they hang above the geometry and hunt the player down. Use swarms.

Edited September 24, 2023 by Dreamskull

[LoatharMDPhD]

// Giant Arrows on the pavement...

[Dreamskull]

Ive got to bump this to hear what other people have to say about this topic because I want to see more of this type of map, if you dont mind.

Edited October 2, 2023 by Dreamskull