Saturnia [/idgames] -cl4

[Xyzzу]

Doomguy's got swamp ass from going through all the other "-onia"s and needs relief. That's it. That's the story. See the text file for more details.

Download

Spoiler

Old version for Maribo and Ravendesk's demos

 

Edited October 3, 2023 by Χyzzy

[Walter confetti]

Charming palette!

[TheShep]

downloaded and prepped for a playthru

[boltface]

Walls don't seem to work in zandronum in any map. Nodebuilder issue maybe?

[Xyzzу]

6 minutes ago, boltface said:

Walls don't seem to work in zandronum in any map. Nodebuilder issue maybe?

Hmm, probably. These maps rely heavily on zokumbsp to work under vanilla limits, so if it's that then I don't know what to say other than try again using either DSDA or Choco since it was tested in those.

[NecrumWarrior]

Sweet, I'll check this out when I'm off work. 

[bioshockfan90]

Maybe include the number of maps in the OP? I had to check in the editor just out of curiosity. I just see most WAD publishings follow this rule so I found it odd this didn't. Or don't, I'm not you. 🤷‍♂️

 

Screenshot looks interesting and Plutonia WADs are always cool, so maybe I'll give this a spin once my desk chair is fully fixed. 

[Shepardus]

52 minutes ago, boltface said:

Walls don't seem to work in zandronum in any map. Nodebuilder issue maybe?

Are you running with the Plutonia IWAD?

[TJG1289]

57 minutes ago, bioshockfan90 said:

Maybe include the number of maps in the OP? I had to check in the editor just out of curiosity.

It's listed in both txt files in the zip folder at least. 

[Maribo]

Wonderful blue + green Plutonic remixes and musings. I particularly love Map05, along with 09 (which has a genius finale) and 10 (which is a very funky riff on a map concept we all know and hate).

Casual playthroughs for most maps on -skill 4, some don't exit. -dsdademo, v0.26.2 for playback - saturnia_maribo.zip

Edited September 23, 2023 by Maribo

[boltface]

10 hours ago, Χyzzy said:

Hmm, probably. These maps rely heavily on zokumbsp to work under vanilla limits, so if it's that then I don't know what to say other than try again using either DSDA or Choco since it was tested in those.

Mostly I used zandronum in order to play this in co-op. Haven't tried if it breaks with odamex yet. As for nodebuilder stuff, best I got is try checking with BTSX folks, they had a similar issue with one map that they then fixed.

9 hours ago, Shepardus said:

Are you running with the Plutonia IWAD?

Yes.

[Ravendesk]

Fun set, really enjoyed it (even chainsaw focused maps xdd - I appreciate that you changed its sound though, it's so much less annoying now). Lots of creative ideas and cl4 teleports usages, and I just really like tiny maps with tiny combat puzzles like that. 01, 03, 05 and 08 are probably my favs in the set.

Here are fdas with saves (dsda-doom 0.26.2), first two maps are recorded on -skill 4, the rest on -skill 3. I started with -skill 4 because I assumed it was intended blind since you reversed the difficulty settings, but switched to skill 3 after first two maps because I felt like it was too easy. Finished all maps except for 31.

saturnia-fdas-raven.zip

 

The one thing that was a bit of an issue for me were confusing switches. There are tons of switches in each map and I still have no idea what half of them did. Especially in maps 02 and 09 (had to use UDB for the latter). Map 09 finale was cool, but I only realised after several retries that

Spoiler

archviles are not ghosts.

When I figured that out, fight became significantly easier.

[kvothesixstring]

Played through it today. Really liked the ideas you were going for but I struggled with the execution of what I thought were good strategies to beating certain fights. I struggled a fair bit with ammo throughout, which I am sure was intentional. And there were a couple of fights that I couldn't get to be reliable at all. Although I am admittedly not the best at maxing. Pallet was really nice.

 

Spoiler

Also I have no idea how to beat the icon of sin map so there's that. I just assumed you can't and called it a day lol.

 

[Xyzzу]

Spoiler

Listen closely to what the icon says lol

Alas, even when I'm "Generous!" it's still not enough for some people. Oh well. Thanks for the streams, boltface and kvo!

Edited September 23, 2023 by Χyzzy

[Xyzzу]

@kvothesixstring Since I was called out on it, here's a playthrough of MAP05 on all three skill levels.
by request.zip

Basically don't miss the SSG lol. But I see your point. I will add a megasphere at the start and another SSG for the RC2 to be released shortly.

[kvothesixstring]

3 minutes ago, Χyzzy said:

@kvothesixstring Since I was called out on it, here's a playthrough of MAP05 on all three skill levels.
by request.zip

Basically don't miss the SSG lol. But I see your point. I will add a megasphere at the start and another SSG for the RC2 to be released shortly.

 

Holy shit, I knew I was dumb. Thanks for letting me know. 

[Xyzzу]

RC2 changelog:

• Added megasphere to MAP05 on skill 4
• Fixed sound propagation problem in MAP08
• Made crushers in start room of MAP31 start much earlier for badly lineskipped viles
• Concealed co-op switch that released hell knights early in MAP04
• I didn't know what to do to make the marble area in MAP09 less confusing so I added a light effect. Hopefully that's enough to see the one crucial switch you need to flip to progress.
• I lied, there's no second SSG in MAP05

[Xyzzу]

RC3 changelog:

• Made maps actually doable on -skill 5 now lol
• More importantly, nodes have been rebuilt. The maps should work just fine in Zandronum now from a quick test.
• Moved obscure first switch in MAP31
• A couple more edits to maps 07 and 09 that may not be noticeable

At this point, if there's no further feedback by the time I make the finishing touches to the WAD, I'm shipping it to idgames!

Edited September 25, 2023 by Χyzzy

[finnks13]

I wished for a whole episode of Xyzzy Plutonia-esque maps after playing Golgotha in PRCP2 and I am so happy that it came true!

 

I had an absolute blast playing this, and ended up playing through it again after realising that the skills were swapped around, which explained the abundance of invulns on what I assumed was UV! I love tiny maps with creative encounters like this, and the combination of tropes from Plutonia itself with a few much more "out-there" ideas sprinkled in was a fantastic idea that always kept me guessing and excited for what was coming next, ending with one of the coolest uses of weird -cl 4 specific mechanics I've ever seen - how the hell do you even think of something like that!

 

Spoiler

The plutonia teleporter "quiz" at the start of Map31 that killed the archviles when you got a part correct was a particular highlight for me, and since I didn't manage to get them all correct, I promise to never criticize a teleporter for being slightly too bright ever again :P

 

[boom_compatible]

Really cool maps that gave me a bit of PTSD!!!

I recommend play it a second time on mute to increase the tension even more =p

 

Only a few minor problems were encountered:

Spoiler

MAP32:

    - Lines 391/394/393/392 are W1 crusher with tag 0. Wasn't that supposed to be the exit here?

MAP01:

    - Players can fall in sector 16 (the BSP hole has only occurred in zdaemon so far)

      Rebuilding the nodes seems to solve the problem (using zdbsp).

 

MAP01: (coop only)

    - Sector 28 (tag 2) will close the path again and players in the starting area will get stuck.

      maybe line 314 (109->106) to WR?

    - Sector 30 (tag 21) will close the way to the yellow skull area and only the first player can go there.

      maybe line 617 (109->106) to WR?

   

I saw that you added a button that releases a voodoo doll that gives the player a yellow skull... but this could fail if the player skips line 430 (it happened to me by accident and I had to open the editor to see what had happened)

 

ah! beautiful automap art! o/

 

 

 

 

Edited September 26, 2023 by boom_compatible

[Xyzzу]

5 hours ago, finnks13 said:

Spoiler

The plutonia teleporter "quiz" at the start of Map31 that killed the archviles when you got a part correct was a particular highlight for me, and since I didn't manage to get them all correct, I promise to never criticize a teleporter for being slightly too bright ever again :P

 

Spoiler

Haha I actually liked your ratings for each teleporter that was in PRCP2 and thought of making that the gimmick of the map when I couldn't think of anything else. Glad you enjoyed it! <3

 

20 minutes ago, boom_compatible said:

Only a few minor problems were encountered:

MAP32's fake exit is intentional as I didn't want it to be finished :P

I'll fix the falling in MAP01, but are you sure about the coop softlocks? Sure the sector 28 door closes, but the sector 30 door should still be open. As for sector 30 bloking the way back to the start, it can be opened again going for the skull switch linedef 380 (where it is actually linedef 161). I could make the skull switch repeatable to give off the illusion that the player can open sector 30 again from it.

As for the lineskip... to hell with it honestly :P

Edited September 26, 2023 by Χyzzy

[Xyzzу]

Final RC changelog:

• MAP11 is now given a name on the intermission
• the HOM in MAP10 is removed
• Untested, but MAP01 was slightly edited per boom_compatible's feedback
• Ike Awnuffsen now gapes

Alright, get your two cents in TODAY because I'll likely send it to idgames either by the end of it or tomorrow! It's done, I did the thing, it's over. I'm pretty confident there isn't much else to discover considering these maps are tiny and if something slips through it's likely super obscure anyway.

Edited September 29, 2023 by Χyzzy

[Lucius Wooding]

I gave this one a quick playthrough and it was one of the better WADs I've played in a minute. I enjoyed the weapon changes, particularly the plasma and chainsaw. They really are a godsend with everything that gets thrown at you, yet they aren't enough to really avoid danger altogether the way the BFG can be sometimes. I thought map 1 was probably one of the harder ones due to all the nasty archvile placements. A number of the mid to late maps were a bit more lenient in my opinion so personally I felt the difficulty curve was a bit odd.

 

Kudos for keeping the monster count legitimately small on almost all of them, and I happen to like the difficulty implementation for being a bit different. As a blind player, ITYTD is probably perfect since it has the toughest monster placements but it's a lot less punishing (especially for high damage rolls) and you have lots of ammo available. Playing on "actual" UV is extremely tough even with megaspheres being available on every map since it's so easy to get pulverized by archviles. I'm guessing playing this on Nightmare would be brutal with all the chaingunners throughout, it'd be an absolute mad dash to the exit. 

 

I don't have too much in the way of critique but my only negative worth bringing up was perhaps the use of timed switches and awkward traversal of the maps for progression. I think it was mostly intentional as a way to somewhat force the player to clear monsters before moving on, but it only stuck out in a couple spots to me at any rate. (map 3 was probably the main culprit here, and the IoS map also did something similar as a way to slow the player down. I just don't like IoS in general.) The flow of fight into fight was otherwise relentless in such a combat focused WAD. 

 

With that said, my biggest criteria for a good WAD are the combat and the strength of its better maps. I think more than half of these are legitimately fun and smart with their combat, so I consider it a big success. 

[Xyzzу]

7 hours ago, Lucius Wooding said:

I thought map 1 was probably one of the harder ones due to all the nasty archvile placements. A number of the mid to late maps were a bit more lenient in my opinion so personally I felt the difficulty curve was a bit odd.

 

Fair enough. Besides the music and the lack of a starting teleporter, that map is only the first one because, excepting the final fight, the monsters in it are easily escapable which can't be said for much of the rest of the fights in the WAD. I like it as MAP01 though because it wastes no time slamming down the gameplay feel (and general difficulty) of the rest of the WAD - I wouldn't mind more MAP01s like that. I also did intend for every third map in the set to be some sort of difficulty spike/reset, which may explain why, I assume, maps 07 and 08 are unexpectedly easy for most people.

 

7 hours ago, Lucius Wooding said:

I don't have too much in the way of critique but my only negative worth bringing up was perhaps the use of timed switches and awkward traversal of the maps for progression. I think it was mostly intentional as a way to somewhat force the player to clear monsters before moving on, but it only stuck out in a couple spots to me at any rate. (map 3 was probably the main culprit here, and the IoS map also did something similar as a way to slow the player down. I just don't like IoS in general.) The flow of fight into fight was otherwise relentless in such a combat focused WAD. 

Aww, I was hoping to make a nice, engaging icon map that didn't have all the annoyances of every icon map that isn't just a stand-and-shoot pushover. Then again, I knew people who hate the boss out of principle would lump this map in with the rest in their personal garbage pile anyway.

"Too many switches" is a valid complaint, though with maps this small and for the sake of -nomonsters runs I'd still prefer them over having to wait for some bars the raise; I did that once in MAP07 and opted to never do it again, heh. It doesn't help that there's just some switches meant for preventing co-op softlocks out in the open (vanilla format and its lack of voodoo conveyors that aren't jank grumble grumble). MAP03's final fight is amazing when you need to do the nukage switch run over again, and MAP02 is indeed supposed to be a small puzzle and I'm keeping them that way; I realize people don't play a Plutonia mapset for puzzles but the WAD's two real puzzles should be easy enough to solve. In MAP02's case, its probably more intuitive when you realize the skull switches are absolutely needed while each pair of other switches raise and lower a sector.

But thank you for the glowing review, Lucius! Thanks to all others who gave feedback here as well; whether positive, negative, or are simply middling bug reports, they help my morale and help me figure out what's wrong with the WAD before it gets solidified in stone by idgames/speedrunners <3

[boltface]

Played Saturnia again now that it works in Zandronum. Link to vod. Only real complaint is that some maps seemed like they can get permanently stuck on coop if someone dies in the wrong place after it locks up.

 

Had good fun though.

[Xyzzу]

Looking at both the vod and the maps in the editor, I can confirm there was only one point in the WAD where a player can get stuck permanently. Everywhere else, there was always a way out no matter where you were without the assistance of someone on the "other side", but I can imagine that not seeming to be the case when you're not savvy with the map's design.

 

MAP07's start area is a softlock, it seems like. You're so lucky this is not on idgames yet, I've sent a quick fix that raises the height of the first switch. It looks goofy as hell and kinda gimps the already easy ending even more, but it works. I'm never making a (vanilla) mapset co-op compatible again. Another problem I saw in the vod that isn't necessarily the WAD's fault is the failure to emulate the Final Doom teleportation quirk needed to properly beat MAP10.

 

EDIT: I have no idea what the hell is happening with MAP31's starting quiz, but the teleporters should not work like in that vod at all. I'll just chalk that up to more Zport bullshittery.

 

P.S. playing co-op without at least having respawning items is cruel and unusual lol

 

BTW for those reading this, I'm no longer receiving feedback, as I've sent the WAD (again) to /incoming.

Edited September 30, 2023 by Χyzzy

[whybmonotacrab]

I just want to say that these maps are an absolute blast. I thoroughly enjoyed my time with these. Mean fucking maps, but so satisfying to beat.

[Xyzzу]

Dangit BMO, I wished you announced this sooner :c

Spoiler

I would've added you to MAP09's easter egg!

But I figured I show my gratitude with this post, thanks!

[Xyzzу]

Finally, some closure. Besides those demos (the second one desyncs in choco for some reason - it plays back correctly in both dsda and eternity :/) and the MAP07 stuff, there's one last important change to the /idgames version and that is:

Spoiler

Splash Woman.

Thank you and goodnight!

[NecrumWarrior]

I'll have to try this again now that it's on idgames. I didnt get past the first level when I tried rc1. 

Edited October 3, 2023 by NecrumWarrior