How do you go about completing huge, complex maps?

[DaBigNerd]

Assuming, a first playthrough of say Alien Vendetta's MAP20, Foursite, or other huge and complex maps, is there a certain strategy you use to complete maps of the sort? 

 

It just struck my curiosity yesterday at 3am and I had to ask.

[DNSKILL5]

I keep a mental note of any locked doors locations, then prioritize finding the keys (if applicable), and taking out enemies. This allows me to see where I’ve already been if I have to backtrack. If I get lost, I will resort to the auto map. If I begin to get frustrated or bored from getting lost in a level, I save my progress and return to it later. Typically, I then find where I needed to go almost immediately and facepalm. 

[baja blast rd.]

What I try to do...

 

General: Don't obligate myself to finish a long map in one sitting. As CAM-7EA also said, be willing to stop and come back later, but I do that sometimes even when I'm not frustrated or bored. Understand what days I don't feel like playing long maps and don't force it. 

 

I try to avoid feeling like the point of playing a wad is to complete it, because that can build resentment when it comes to long, demanding maps, which can end up looking like obstacles to completion. The point of playing a wad is to experience it. I try not to have a strong completionism impulse and I sometimes put wads on the backburner for weeks even when I'm loving them. 

 

I don't go out of my way to max maps on first playthroughs. That lingering curiosity of what I missed often is better for my experience anyway, makes the map and its mythos stay in my mind.

Hard slaughter-specific: Set out to play one longer, demanding map a day tops (if I end up getting to more, that's just a bonus). Play multiple wads at the same time instead of picking one wad to play from start to finish, so that I don't feel a hard set is "trapping me" when its maps get exhausting. If I'm playing Abandon, I'm also playing something easy on the side, like Sunlust.

 

Spoiler

Joke. ...like Nostalgia 2 or Lunatic. 

 

I'm not entitled to finish maps quickly and smoothly. Some might take days. 

 

Complex maps: My mindset is that finding my way around complex maps is a skill. Getting lost (which happens because navigation in complex maps isn't my strong suit) is a skill issue, a Git Gud issue, not a "mapper failed to convey stuff" issue. I find that mindset more rewarding because it helps me improve, and being salty simply hurts my experience. Additionally "navigating well anyway even though the map has conveyance missteps" is a skill. And importantly, not all maps that are confusing are "bad at conveyance" because not every wad is modern run 'n' gun. Having challenging opaque progression can be the point, and I enjoy those maps more when I don't come in expecting that progression should always be easy and that confusing parts are bAd dEsIgN ^tM.
 

If I'm lost, I try to remember to switch gears from what I'm doing; don't try to keep doing what I'm doing, but harder and more intensely and with more trying. So if I have been running around looking for a switch, maybe look at walls for an open path. If I haven't been using the automap, study that for a bit. Often in complex maps, the issue is you'll find pretty much everything but one or two objectives. Classic city sandbox problem. Usually, objectives tend to be more spaced out than not, so thinking about all the areas you've done something in already and then trying to notice a suspicious gap in those might be helpful. 

 

With navigation, every area I'm in, I try to understand it and what it is and what it's for. Not necessarily immediately, but eventually. Observations like, "This area seems like a hub that a lot of paths feed back into. That area over there looks like something we get to far later on in the map that this view is teasing early." Those help because when you have ideas of the function of spaces in the map, and you know you're missing something, you can think about what you're missing in relation to what you've seen and understood already. Trying to understand the logic of spaces, get into the "head" of those spaces (which is not necessarily the author), can help a lot, instead of mindlessly running around and reacting and looking at what's obvious.

 

Whenever I get lost for some time and then find my way, questions like, "What type of thinking or action plan would have led me to the right path sooner?" or "What, if I was paying more attention to it, would have led me to spot what I overlooked sooner?" can help for future improvement. Obviously, we want answers that generalize to other contexts, rather than just pointing out whatever helped this one time. So rather than "look for 1-pixel eye switches that wink when you cross tripwires near ambient farting noises, duh!" answers would be more meta, like "understand that in some maps, progression isn't always going to be a switch or door or open path or something typical like that." 

[Dreamskull]

Im a fan of the extreme fatigue and exhaustion method. Thats where youre under the gun - stressed, tired and continually failing, but you keep going. Used to be when this happened in old games, it would be unforgiveably hard, but wed shelve it and come back to it maybe a day later and it would be magically piss easy in comparison. Take your beatings and it pays off later. 

 

A small tip for you - if you get lost, look at the nearest wall and follow it. Remember its path before you remember yours. Youll learn the shape of things and from there youll develop orientation that will help you make comeback.

Edited September 29, 2023 by Dreamskull

[plums]

@baja blast rd. @CAM-7EA interesting, if I don't finish a map in one sitting I find I have trouble reorienting myself sometimes. Of course sometimes you have to stop for big maps, for a number of reasons, but I try to do them in one go when possible.

[LoatharMDPhD]

// Save scumming and cheating... same as it always was... same way i learned... anybody can beat doom, only a pro can go on Netscape navigator and find what cheat codes are let alone use them...

[TheSlipgateStudios]

My strategy is to look online for a guide (if there is any) if the map is way too complex.

[Woolie Wool]

Map markers are extremely useful for finding your way around large, complex adventure maps, and I always have a wad that replaces the AMMNUM* lumps with brighter, more conspicuous ones in my autoload.

[plums]

2 hours ago, Woolie Wool said:

Map markers are extremely useful for finding your way around large, complex adventure maps, and I always have a wad that replaces the AMMNUM* lumps with brighter, more conspicuous ones in my autoload. 

That's a pretty good idea, I like map markers but they could definitely do to stand out more.

[TheHambourgeois]

gonna level with you: I don't

movies should be a tight 90 and a novel doesn't need to be more than 250 pages

[DankMetal]

Eleven letters: Idclip iddqd

Edit: well, now talking seriously, i love big ahh maps, i'm one of the few insane guys who actually likes downtown. So when i play a long map that takes like 30 minutes i usually  just save after taking a key or pressing a very important switch. I don't have a more "ellegant" way to play this kind of maps honestly... and i think that's why i love them? Just go with it, i guess.

Edited October 1, 2023 by DankMetal

[LadyMistDragon]

Taking it easy, essentially. I have enough cognizance of my surroundings that I don't forget too much so when I have to set it down (which is inevitable with a large enough map), getting my bearings isn't so hard. Although puzzle wads like Odessa sort of add in other sorts of complexity....but the break can often help, imo.

[rita remton]

• when selecting pathways, i tend to choose to the right hand-side and stick with that choice until i come to a full circle or could no longer proceed. then i select the left hand-side pathway. i would only use the automap if the map is too confusing to navigate.
• save regularly.
• when backtracking for ammo, i always would fetch the ammo nearest to the map start location if possible. the back-and-forth also helps me memorise the 3d space for navigation/tactical vantage.
• listen to my own music after several rounds of in-game midi. classicals such as [canon in d] by [johann pachelbel], [minuet in g major] by [petzold], [air] by [sebastian bach], etc, are reserved for really grindy battles.
• regularly take breaks, sometimes using a pomodoro timer and sometimes by map design for grindy maps (eg: before opening a locked door).
• have a big mug of hot chocolate at my side, knowing it would be a long gameplay. helps calm the nerves too :)

tq :)

[Lila Feuer]

I have never used the map markers in all my years of playing, and the biggest map I've finished without looking up a video was Eviternity's MAP32: Anagnorisis at 2 and a half hours of playtime. I can't remember if it was all in one go.

[Shakariki Heisenberg]

if it gets too complicated Search up a guide or just give up.
if its too long idclip/idkfa or just give up
if its too hard iddqd/idclip or just give up
i honestly i just do not like gigantic wads, if it takes over 10 mins to complete a single level ill just quit

[Naarok0fkor]

Follow the left wall...

[Lila Feuer]

I will say that while I don't mind large maps I may not always be in the mood for them. I've beaten Eternal Doom, twice, because it's a vibe and you know what kind of an adventure you're opting in for. But when you get a massive showstopper of a level in the middle of a WAD or so it tends to get slippery. I myself didn't mind AV's arguably magnum opus of an exploratory map, it's one of the most memorable levels in all of megawads. However, I don't always appreciate when something like MAP15 in Plutonia Revisited just comes out of nowhere and breaks the vibe of short to medium sized levels, at the halfway mark. It's a fine level and not as obnoxious as the 30 minute map after another for the pace ruining PL2, which didn't need to be 12 hours long all in all, one of those hours which was MAP29 in itself, it gets annoying. I had a similar problem when attempting to play BtSX ep2 last year on the Unity version, where it seemed like every map took 30 minutes or more to finish, and this is a full replacement of D2 like its predecessor, it didn't need to be so long. I stopped at around MAP14 I think. I'll have to give it another go down the line but yeah, wasn't expecting the massive change in map size and subsequent pacing compared to BtSX ep1, which all in all was long (and really samey) but pretty typical of most megawads and I don't recall there being a lot of super long levels in it until maybe closer to the end, it has been a while.

 

But if you wanted the gigachad that was Anagnorisis in Eviternity, well you had to find it lol, so I can't complain.

Edited October 11, 2023 by Lila Feuer

[Clippy]

I just get lost and bitch the whole time. 

 

I don't have stamina for super long complicated maps lol

[Mystic 256]

I still have yet to make a large complex map, but I would like to try it someday

[Matt Eldrydge]

Given I play a lot of maps blind for my channel, I cross my fingers and hope I can complete every map I come across in under an hour. I feel like I definitely got better at navigating since I started, same with reacting to threats.

 

I also don't even try playing saveless anymore. I do save-scum a bit, not like it's a big deal - I'm not a good enough player to handle the modern difficulty standards without dying a bunch here and there, so I might as well make deaths not cost me 5 or more minutes of progress.

[INfront95]

Simple: Idclev (Next map number)

[Lila Feuer]

I forgot that I also played 32 Inch Nails once and MAP05 in that took me 2 and a half hours to finish because it had 2000 monsters in it and was probably the most gratuitous pacing as well as tonal change in the entire WAD.

 

I think I lack self respect.

Edited October 12, 2023 by Lila Feuer

[TheCarsEdge]

that's the neat part, i skip them

[Beast Bottaro]

I like to take my time first clearing all the remaining demons before going on hunting secrets or paths in a huge map, then guide myself with the automap and trust my instincts of where a secret could be or where the keys are, if I'm playing a map or a WAD first time I don't usually try to get all %100 secrets or items because it's more tiring when you just played the map, if that's the case I like to invest time in experiencing the levels and playing casual and not too crazy on discovering everything, if I replay it THEN I go hunting like a madman for hours if necessary, It's sooooo satisfying when I find that one last secret after like half an hour of pure searching, and if I don't get to found it, save and try later.

 

[Duderald]

I go to the end. Simple

[DaBigNerd]

On 10/15/2023 at 3:25 AM, Duderald said:

I go to the end. Simple

[DeafPixel]

It seems only rd. here has given actual advice...

Take it slowly, methodically, treat the map on a fight-by-fight basis, take breaks sometimes, try to get "in the zone". Often times I think the hardest part of beating complex maps is starting them - After I clear space and beat the first fight in a map, usually ill have enough footing and be motivated enough to finish the rest of it. Part of the challenge of long maps is the psychological aspect - take it slowly and only focus on whats in front of you and eventually that kill count will be at 100%.

Saving liberally is a good idea, and I also like to have 2 or 3 save games at once just in case I quicksave in a particularly bad location. Playing for a longer session can get me over the initial hump of starting the map, but sometimes having 2,3 sessions is just neccesary. (I think ive spent upwards of 5 hours trying to clear a single map). Don't give up immediately, but if you're continually dying to a fight midway through the map, it can be a good idea to take a break to regain headspace.

I think taking *too* many breaks can be a thing, you do need to commit to playing for a long session if you want to beat a long map. As for "complex" maps... I do agree that taking another route if you've been grinding your head figuring out how to progress / dying at a hard fight is a good idea. Its also a good idea to go back to pick up resources you may have left behind in large maps so you can come prepared to every fight. (You're not trying to speedrun this, are you?). Watching others play the map is also a good idea, as is opening up the level in doombuilder if you're REALLY stuck.

[DoomGappy]

I use hells ape navigator to keep track of things. You can see where you've been in the automap and also leave little post signs that you can go back to later. 

 

Edit: Hellscape. Though a hell's ape sounds so fun I will not correct it.

Edited October 20, 2023 by jo2ukegappy