[NOW RELEASED!] [9 maps for Doom 2] The Craven

[Bloo]

Also Craven, your map is looking pretty good. I'd have to agree with him on the plasma at the end. A good way to fix that is to either remove it, move it to a secret, or rebalance the fight to make it make sense for it.

[Aeddes666]

 

Edited November 22, 2023 by Aeddes666

[CravenCoyote]

13 hours ago, Biodegradable said:

Video

 

I love your videos, and this one was no exception!

To answer some of your questions/musings in the video:

• I'm glad you liked the throwback inverted cross and I laughed when you called me a name when you noticed that also included the damaging floor
• The boxes of rockets at the blue-key fight can be attained by pressing on the gargoyle face walls, like the other lowering-wall ones in the rest of the map. No need to do the tedious walking around the top routine. But it makes me wonder if perhaps I didn't make this obvious enough somehow?
• The name is indeed 'Blood Font' - no typo. Think of a Holy Water Font, but replace the water with, well, blood! Name was inspired by this texture:
  
• This texture was provided by @Chainie in this thread
   
• Having said that, this map does include some of my own textures, although I'm not an artist. For anyone who wants them. These were designed to be a transition texture from Doom's bricked marble to a dark marble texture created by @elend here.
  
• Blood Font

 

 

15 hours ago, Tangra said:

Depends on what you want to do. If you really want the level to contain a plasma gun, then i'd say lower the rocket count for that first fight where you collect the rocket launcher.  Instead of boxes of rockets, you place only one rocket in each of the lowering platforms, with the backpack and the launcher that gives 10 (or 9?) rockets, more than enough to deal with that fight, because you also have the SSG and plenty of shells at this point. If you want the player to have some rockets for the corridor of low level enemies on the return to the blue door, you can have a secret compartment close to that corridor containing a few rockets, that opens up at some point, maybe when you collect the blue key. 

Another way is to lower the amount of rockets for the first fight, but also remove the plasma gun entirely, and in its place have some boxes of rockets for the barons.

 

12 hours ago, Bloo said:

Also Craven, your map is looking pretty good. I'd have to agree with him on the plasma at the end. A good way to fix that is to either remove it, move it to a secret, or rebalance the fight to make it make sense for it.

 

Both of you make very good points here. I'm going to see what I can do to make this better. It isn't absolutely essential that I give away the Plasma rifle at this point in the map set yet so let's see how I can get on balancing the rocket/shell distribution and potentially removing that weapon!

 

10 hours ago, Aeddes666 said:

Video

Thank you for your video! I hope you enjoyed playing - it's always great to see creations in action and this was very much appreciated

 

 

Edited October 8, 2023 by CravenCoyote
formatting

[SpinningPlates1]

Really great maps so far! Your architecture and texture choice are very nice. Combat wise, the fights are balanced and fun. Map 4 was my favorite in terms of both combat and visuals.

 

Keep up the good work, I'm lookinng forward to playing this when it's fully completed :)

[CravenCoyote]

I've been moving house and I've been unwell, but Map05 is now done and in the OP if anyone wants to try it.

 

If you do, let me know your thoughts on the difficulty. It should be harder with a pistol start on this map. I'm not the best player, so I'm sure those accustomed to UV won't have too much of a problem with it!

 

With this level done, I have 4 more to go. Just over the halfway point now :D 

 

I'll say that Shores of Hell style maps are much harder to create than I first imagined. I've had fun doing them but I'm not sure how well everything blends together. Although I suppose that's half the point, right?

 

Oh! I should also say that I've also modified the pistol via Dehacked. It shoots *slightly* faster, has a different sprite and a different sound. Sound naturally carries over to the chaingun, too. It feels a little punchier for the first starting weapon without being overpowered. Of course, shooting slightly faster also means using up slightly more ammo if you miss!

Edited October 26, 2023 by CravenCoyote

[CravenCoyote]

Map06 is now done and in the OP for anyone who wants to try.

 

I've also made some slight changes to Map03 (now forces a pistol start on Map04) and Map01 no longer gives console error messages about STARTAN1.

 

I've now done my three tech-base and three shores of hell maps - so now it's time to do three Hell/Inferno themed maps.

Never done Hell themed before so hopefully I'm not too stuck with them.

 

Wish me luck!

[CravenCoyote]

Map07 has now been added to the OP as part of the map set!

 

My first ever Hell themed map. Hope you enjoy!

I now have two more maps to go before I can figure out a proper Wad title and head towards release.

 

Remember, if you have any feedback on the maps - please feel free to share. The latest versions (and screenshots) are always in the OP.

Edited November 20, 2023 by CravenCoyote

[Wo0p]

I just redownloaded this map pack and realised I hadn't played beyond map03! You establish your mapping conventions quickly and stick to them and that's a huge boon for someone playing through the map pack as a whole because consistency is a very user-friendly trait to have control over as a developer or mapmaker. It elevates the maps as a whole beyond the sum of their parts and I was pleased to find that every map beyond third continues the pleasant trend!

 

If I had to give some contentious feedback it would be that none of the music tracks of the new levels (4-7) stood out to me but neither did they "break" the experience (With vocals etc.). The music track of the 2nd map is still my absolute favourite! But as I said, this is neither good nor bad, it's subjective; personal :)

 

There was a very cheeky trap in map 6 I believe that didn't involve the cyberdemon but instead a ramp with some shotgunners on it, lowering as you go near it to reveal MORE shotgunners behind it. Very nice! But use this trap sparingly, I would suggest, as it's "worth" more than your standard teleport / monster closet trap. Just to make it retain its special trap status for as long as possible. Save it for a special occasion ;)

 

Also your Hell map was lovely, with a clear indication to the player that shite has hit the fan when it comes to difficulty. Great visuals also! Also that Craven marble demon head textures was very cheeky indeed. Love it. :D

[CravenCoyote]

Thanks so much for your feedback, @Wo0p!

 

I'm glad you liked the new maps, it was fun making them. I think you and I have, based at least on what I've seen here on Doomworld, similar tastes in maps. I like what I like and I tend to stick with it. I do try to 'experiment' a little bit here and there but I think ultimately you'd recognise a Craven map if you saw one haha.

 

For me, I never want the player to feel lost and struggling to work out what to do. I do worry sometimes that people may feel that my maps are a bit linear so I try to make little hub areas that the player revisits, but on entering it is immediately obvious which direction they should take. I think Map06 is the most experimental I've been so far and I was worried people may not like the idea of the up-and-down Cyberdemon threat potentially being there or not. The trap you mentioned was fun to make but indeed something I'd not use very often, if at all for the other maps. If they're too predictable, they're no longer traps!

 

I had to put the marble CravenCoyote texture in there somewhere and I thought it would be fun to do as a little Easter egg (certainly not difficult to find, just so long as you look in the right place haha). It's in both Map04 and Map07. Map07 actually has a slight wild-card to it as well, I'm not sure if you noticed *grins*

[Wo0p]

13 minutes ago, CravenCoyote said:

Thanks so much for your feedback, @Wo0p!

 

I'm glad you liked the new maps, it was fun making them. I think you and I have, based at least on what I've seen here on Doomworld, similar tastes in maps. I like what I like and I tend to stick with it. I do try to 'experiment' a little bit here and there but I think ultimately you'd recognise a Craven map if you saw one haha.

 

For me, I never want the player to feel lost and struggling to work out what to do. I do worry sometimes that people may feel that my maps are a bit linear so I try to make little hub areas that the player revisits, but on entering it is immediately obvious which direction they should take. I think Map06 is the most experimental I've been so far and I was worried people may not like the idea of the up-and-down Cyberdemon threat potentially being there or not. The trap you mentioned was fun to make but indeed something I'd not use very often, if at all for the other maps. If they're too predictable, they're no longer traps!

 

I had to put the marble CravenCoyote texture in there somewhere and I thought it would be fun to do as a little Easter egg (certainly not difficult to find, just so long as you look in the right place haha). It's in both Map04 and Map07. Map07 actually has a slight wild-card to it as well, I'm not sure if you noticed *grins*

 

You're welcome! :)

 

Are you stalking me? Jk :P And experimentation is good. Myself, I struggle with making consistent design choices. If I make something that looks kinda like a standard template (Like a certain kind of room or something), the next time I make that room, I really have to exercise restraint not to iterate further on it. Also if you're familiar with dungeons and dragons there's this idea that dungeon masters have to make new and exciting and never-before-thought-of storylines for their players to uncover! But the thing is... every kind of story ever (within the limits of social acceptability) has already been told, so chances are that that new and genius storyline you thought up is actually old news. Therefore its much more important to have a fun time playing dungeons and dragons with its mechanics and just have fun with tried and true stories. It doesn't matter. The FUN is what matters :)

 

So what I wanted to say with that tangent is I see making maps for Doom kinda the same way. Experimentation is fine, and trying to use the full extent of your imagination to create something unique is fine, but the FUN is the most important, since FPS mapping has existed for 30 years now and the window for original design gets smaller and smaller every year :P

 

Phew... Didn't intend to write half a novel. And I could see the Cyberdemon trap would perhaps be seen as some tired or annoying design that breaks the sequence of the gameplay but I dunno. I didn't see it that way. It falls under the Doom mapping expectations I feel. Cyberdemons are often used in a slightly gimmicky way because they're so dangerous when put in the right circumstance. So no harm no foul in my eyes :)

 

And indeed traps cease to be traps when they're expected! That's why I hate monster closets personally that open when picking up a key or similar. It's like "Heeehh... here we go again. Oooooh I'm SO surprised! Oh no!" :P

 

Hmmm I don't think I noticed the wildcard in map07  :o I'll have to go back and play it again. Its a fun idea to include something of a personal touch into your maps. Like developer easter eggs from "official" AAA games where they sign their maps or something like that :D

[CravenCoyote]

@Wo0p - You said "The FUN is what matters :)" and I couldn't agree more! This is exactly what I'm going for in my maps. But I know that fun can be subjective to who is playing.

 

Map07:

Spoiler

The slight wildcard takes place in the red basin. You could stay and fight, or you could try to run... but when you run, things catch up to you ;)

 

Certainly nothing new, but makes for a slightly varied experience

 

[CravenCoyote]

OK - Map08 is mostly finished. It's a challenge for me to get through but no doubt those accustomed to the harder difficulties of Doom won't find it too bad.

It might need a few tweaks and difficulties haven't been added for this map yet, so Ultra Violence is the only implemented difficulty.

 

Download link is in the OP as usual.

 

One map remaining and then I think I'll be ready to have it play-tested a bit before actual release!

 

 

 

 

 

[CravenCoyote]

The final map, map09, is now in the op! I present to you: Karma.

 

This wad is now so close to release - I just need to learn how to change the difficulty names.

 

If you have any feedback prior to release, be sure to let me know!

 

Screenshots:

 

 

Edited February 9 by CravenCoyote

[Oxyde]

So I FDA'd through this and I have a few things to share!

 

Map01;

Got some strong Struggle vibes. Nothing abnormal noticed here aside from a couple of misaligned texture here and there. I'm not listing these but just as quick tip, press "Q" in UDB's Visual mode to auto-align, and press "Shift + Q" to auto-align vertically. Additionally, using Lower & Upper Unpegged will work!

 

 

Map02;

I used DSDA Doom OpenGL renderer and ran into a little visual oddity. Sector 285 has a strange overlapping effect of it's texture. I'm unsure why this happens, it appears the sector surrounding it isn't properly closed. This does not occur on Software renderer though.

 

 

This should be an easy fix.

 

Map03;

Nothing major to report here aside from a little texturing suggestion! Try to have your geometry and texture fit! What I mean with this is, see this screnshot.

 

 

The grey horizontal stones at the far left and the bronze horizontal stone on the right get their jointing parts matching with the level geometry by simply adjusting the height of the ceiling.

Remember, this is just nitpicking and far from critical! It's just the extra little flavoring that makes a fun level a better looking one!

 

Map04;

Well, that was something else. The arena had me dead a couple of time due to my own carelessness. I heard monster attacks and gunshots in said arena but couldn't see the hellspawn in itself so I'm unsure if they were meant to teleport or if I should have seen them somewhere.

 

Map05;

Nothing major to report here. I was a bit low on health but likely a "skill issue". :tm:

 

Map06;

Well that was an oppressive Cyberdemon. Feeling uneasy when navigating around it made for a tense level, and the final fight is nothing short of nerve racking. One issue here; You can grab the Blue Armor through the fence (Thing 162 / Sector 340).

 

Map07;

Felt curious the Soulsphere is not a secret! You can also grab it when the nearby lift is raising so I suggest adding a fence to prevent it should that bother you.

 

Map08;

No issues here!

 

Map09;

Felt a bit anti-climactic because it's much shorter than the other ones, with a final boss in it... Strange I wanna say! Still a good little level none the less!

 

Overall I really enjoyed this little level pack. Here's a chaptered video-FDA of my stroll through The Craven. Reminder the quality is ass at the moment because it's still processing.

 

 

Edited February 11 by Oxyde

[CravenCoyote]

@Oxyde thank you SO MUCH for your reply! And for your video. I've been pretty sick these last few days so it was amazing to be treated to an entire playthrough of my mapset! The quality was very good by the time I got around to watching it, and I liked your editing. You've got yourself a new subscriber :)

 

I'm really pleased you enjoyed playing through my first wad in over 20 years.

 

On 2/11/2024 at 6:30 PM, Oxyde said:

Map01;

Got some strong Struggle vibes. Nothing abnormal noticed here aside from a couple of misaligned texture here and there. I'm not listing these but just as quick tip, press "Q" in UDB's Visual mode to auto-align, and press "Shift + Q" to auto-align vertically. Additionally, using Lower & Upper Unpegged will work!

I made this in Doom Builder 2 and the hotkey there is "A" and "Shift + A" but no matter how much I tried I couldn't get them to align quite right. However, I had NO IDEA that unpegging them would work - thank you! I've updated this and it looks so much better.

 

On 2/11/2024 at 6:30 PM, Oxyde said:

Map02;

I used DSDA Doom OpenGL renderer and ran into a little visual oddity. Sector 285 has a strange overlapping effect of it's texture. I'm unsure why this happens, it appears the sector surrounding it isn't properly closed. This does not occur on Software renderer though.

This should be an easy fix.

 

Thank you for this - I hadn't even noticed. But you were right - that part hadn't registered as a sector for some reason. I re-drew over it and it's working fine now. Good spot!

 

On 2/11/2024 at 6:30 PM, Oxyde said:

Map03;

Nothing major to report here aside from a little texturing suggestion! Try to have your geometry and texture fit! What I mean with this is, see this screnshot.

Thank you for this suggestion. I've taken your advice and tweaked them a bit. I agree - it looks nicer.

This level was designed to mark the end of the first 'chapter', similar to the end of Knee Deep in the Dead.

 

On 2/11/2024 at 6:30 PM, Oxyde said:

Map04;

Well, that was something else. The arena had me dead a couple of time due to my own carelessness. I heard monster attacks and gunshots in said arena but couldn't see the hellspawn in itself so I'm unsure if they were meant to teleport or if I should have seen them somewhere.

Definitely a teleport closet. I did what I can to try and have the hitscanners have a very difficult time hitting the player and they *should* teleport before they get to that point. I think this is down to a combination of rotten luck and that I haven't quite mastered teleport closets with hitscanners yet.

 

On 2/11/2024 at 6:30 PM, Oxyde said:

Map05;

Nothing major to report here. I was a bit low on health but likely a "skill issue". :tm:

For this map I tried to make the difficulty harder. There is limited ammunition compared to the previous levels and also less health pickups. It's much harder on a pistol start as you've discovered. The level was supposed to be challenging, but not unfair. Hopefully you feel it matches that goal!

 

On 2/11/2024 at 6:30 PM, Oxyde said:

Map06;

Well that was an oppressive Cyberdemon. Feeling uneasy when navigating around it made for a tense level, and the final fight is nothing short of nerve racking. One issue here; You can grab the Blue Armor through the fence (Thing 162 / Sector 340).

Ahhh, yes. This was my re-imagining of Tower of Babel but more high-tech. Slightly gimmicky and I did feel at points that perhaps this map may have been out-of-place but I persevered as I could. I wanted a Cyberdemon to mark the end of the second 'chapter', similar to the Shores of Hell. The idea was to feel like there was always a threat looming. I hadn't realised that the Blue Armor could be bumped, so I've nudged it a long a bit. Good find!

 

On 2/11/2024 at 6:30 PM, Oxyde said:

Map07;

Felt curious the Soulsphere is not a secret! You can also grab it when the nearby lift is raising so I suggest adding a fence to prevent it should that bother you.

I've noticed on a couple of videos that this is exactly what most people did and I completely forgot to change it. I've amended it so that it's now a lowering floor accessible only from the top, and it is now marked as a secret. Thank you for the reminder! Yours is also the first video I've seen where the Arch Vile was teleported to the final room. The basin arena has a couple of teleport spots where any monsters that are not finished off, or not finished off fast enough, will teleport to the last area. Had never seen this with the Arch Vile until your video and it was good fun to watch! The idea was to make this level always seem a little bit different 

 

On 2/11/2024 at 6:30 PM, Oxyde said:

Map08;

No issues here!

This map really took it out of me when it came to creating it. As the penultimate map, I wanted it to be a good challenge. I did a lot of play testing on this map to try and get everything how I wanted it. I'm not a great Doom player, so I died a LOT when doing tweaking. I'm glad it seems to have paid off! Thank you for your feedback.

 

On 2/11/2024 at 6:30 PM, Oxyde said:

Map09;

Felt a bit anti-climactic because it's much shorter than the other ones, with a final boss in it... Strange I wanna say! Still a good little level none the less!

OK, so this was my take on Dis! It is to mark the end of the last 'chapter'. But I wanted to make it less open and with a bit more action than the final map of Doom 1. It's a short level, but I wanted it to be full of action. Unfortunately, I feel like the Spider Mastermind isn't a great boss so I guess the only thing I can say here is "I tried", haha.

 

[CravenCoyote]

This wad is now released!

 

I hope you enjoy!!

[Wo0p]

1 hour ago, CravenCoyote said:

This wad is now released!

 

I hope you enjoy!!

 

Congratz on full release :D As stated, it was a joy to play and I'm sure to return to it at some point (Too many WADS to play D: <3)

[Oxyde]

Congratulations! Looking forward to what's your next release!

[mmww]

Played it through on UV. Not 100%, but anyway. I really enjoyed it! Like the classic feel of the maps. Maybe a few of them were a bit short, but overall I like the set a lot. Finished in about 1:30. Albeit with a bit of save-scumming.

 

Thank you for sharing!

[CravenCoyote]

13 hours ago, mmww said:

Played it through on UV. Not 100%, but anyway. I really enjoyed it! Like the classic feel of the maps. Maybe a few of them were a bit short, but overall I like the set a lot. Finished in about 1:30. Albeit with a bit of save-scumming.

 

Thank you for sharing!

 

You're very welcome - thank you so much for playing!

[LadyMistDragon]

 

[CravenCoyote]

20 hours ago, LadyMistDragon said:

 

 

Thank you for your video! Wow, that mod sure is intense :O Not sure if you tried it without using that, but I hope you enjoyed what you played!

[LadyMistDragon]

56 minutes ago, CravenCoyote said:

 

Thank you for your video! Wow, that mod sure is intense :O Not sure if you tried it without using that, but I hope you enjoyed what you played!

I did, actually. The last map is a pretty decent ending if nothing else/

[JustHeziel]

Loved them all. I love the shortness of each map, it makes you come back easily if you get downed at any point. Difficulty it's perfect, not too easy nor too hard, you have enough space to move fairly :)

 

I had some problems on my end, though. Boss deaths were not triggering level changes after finish them off for some reason. I was playing on DSDA 0.27.5. So, I had to pistol-start from MAP07 onwards and the same happened in MAP09.

 

Spoiler

 

Spoiler

 

But, overall, I had fun going through these :) .

[CravenCoyote]

18 hours ago, JustHeziel said:

I had some problems on my end, though. Boss deaths were not triggering level changes after finish them off for some reason. I was playing on DSDA 0.27.5. So, I had to pistol-start from MAP07 onwards and the same happened in MAP09.

 

Thanks for this - I'm not sure what could be causing that.

I tested with DSDA 0.27.2 so I decided to try 0.27.5 after reading your post - however I can't recreate the problem that you had. When the bosses die, the level progresses for me.

 

Are you running any wads with it that might interfere?

[JustHeziel]

4 hours ago, CravenCoyote said:

Are you running any wads with it that might interfere?

 

Hi there, I was thinking about this at work, and now that I'm home I can.

 

And yes! that was the problem.

 

I decided to try again, but this time with the autoload folder empty. And level ends as it should, nice :)

 

The problem was loading Smooth Doom MBF21, specifically its "Classic Edition V3". So, yea ... problem solved.

 

Sorry for the inconvenience/false alarm.

 

 

[Maribo]

Stumbled across this on the recent idgames uploads page and felt like giving it a go. These are solid, very cute, traditional maps. I think the best of the lot are Map03 (love the overrun-with-vines tech theme!), Map06 (creative Cyberdemon centerpiece map), and Map07 + Map08 (just a good solid pair of Hell levels). You did a very good job, regardless of whether or not you last touched an editor two decades ago.

 

thecraven-maribo.zip - A pack of ditzy and somewhat distracted UV playthrough demos, hopefully they're not too painful though. They're recorded in -dsdademo format and will play back on v0.27.5 of DSDA-Doom.

 

Some things you might want to fix:

Spoiler

In Map02's SSG secret, sectors 833 and 832 are extremely difficult (if not impossible) to trigger and just serve as erroneous duplicate tags for the same secret anyway. It would be best to remove their secret tags. Sector 385 in the nukage hallway is also mis-tagged with effect 70 instead of 7, but the sector is so small that I doubt it matters.

 

In Map07, the blue skull key softlock happens because the Archvile in the blue key inlet is slightly inside the sector that lowers. It's actually raised into the ceiling, which prevents the floor from lowering. Should be an easy fix, just move it back a little bit like this:
->

 

Likewise in Map08's 8-pillar Arachnotron fight, the rearmost spiders on each side of the room are actually slightly inside the lowering sectors, so they're stuck in the ceiling. Same easy fix.

->

 

In Map09, same deal as 07 and 08, Sector 14 with Tag 10 has a Revenant that's slightly inside another sector, preventing it from lowering.

 

[CravenCoyote]

@Maribo thanks so much for your post!

 

Wow, I had no idea that this was the case and making the softlock. I'll definitely go about making those little adjustments in order to fix the issue. I'm not sure how to update once published to idgames but I'm sure I'll figure it out. I can update in this thread at the very least.

 

And bonus points for the two arachnotrons - I had no idea they were stuck in the roof!

 

I'm glad you enjoyed the maps, it was good fun to get back into mapping again after so long. I'll download your demo and have a watch - can't wait!

[Maribo]

On 3/4/2024 at 1:51 AM, CravenCoyote said:

I'm not sure how to update once published to idgames but I'm sure I'll figure it out. I can update in this thread at the very least.

It is the same process as uploading to idgames normally, except you specify what the upload is an update for in the "Update to:" field of the txt file. ie:

Update to : thecraven.wad

You can even just wholesale copy the original txt and update that line (but also remember to update it in the zip as well).

 

Cheers again, hope to see more from you in the future. :)

[LSC Lasico]

Hello! I would like to point out that the waterfall tecture in this wad is not animated. I dunno if it's because of a port (I use nugget doom) or its the fault of this wad, but it is something to consider.

 

in map02 there is also a bug where when you try to get the ssg secret, the secret itself consists of three secret tagged sectors, two of which are unreachable, making this map impossible to 100% secret.

Edited May 6 by LSC Lasico