Should I replay ALL cacoawards

[ITaannl09]

Hey I'm new to doom

and I'm wondering if I should replay ALL cacoawards
Just to get the best of the best
Is it worth it?

[Xaser]

Play what you want. The Cacowards are a great place to start if you're not sure where, but don't feel compelled to stick to any sort of "must play all of [x]" dogma -- even within a wad itself. If you find something that you're just not enjoying, even if it's a Cacoward winner or runner-up, move on to the next one 'til you find the sweet spot.

Edited September 30, 2023 by Xaser

[ITaannl09]

2 minutes ago, Xaser said:

Play what you want. The Cacowards are a great place to start if you're not sure where, but don't feel compelled to stick to any sort of "must play all of [x]" dogma -- even within a wad itself. If you find something that you're just not enjoying, even if it's a Cacoward winner or runner-up, move on to the next one 'til you find the sweet spot.

Alright man thanks

[AbeAwesome]

I think it may be worth it if you're interested in the scene, or level design, or are just a very big fan of DOOM gameplay.

Personally, I have been going through all the Cacowards in chronological order in short bursts over the last few years for archeological reasons. And I found out that—especially when it comes to earlier WADs, like the pre-Cacowards "10 Years of DOOM"/"Top 100 WADs Of All Time" list—there are some non-listed maps that are, in retrospect, more interesting than the ones with awards.

 

For that reason, when I play a Cacoward winner, I will go and research previous output from the same person/team to see what fell through the cracks. I also keep a list in a spreadsheet of what I finished, and some relevant stats. I'm sure that data is all on the DOOM Wiki already, but I like to organize my notes in particular ways.

 

At times, there are megawads that I would really like to skip, but I just take a break instead, and come back to the "journey" at a later date.

 

So I'd say: do it, but pace yourself so you don't get burned out.

[RDETalus]

On 10/1/2023 at 6:08 AM, ITaannl09 said:

Is it worth it?

Yes it's definitely worth it.

 

But don't force yourself through wads you don't like. For example, some of the winners are slaughter maps and not everyone likes those. You can always just disable all monsters and walk through the architecture too.

[Bloo]

On 9/30/2023 at 5:08 PM, ITaannl09 said:

Hey I'm new to doom

and I'm wondering if I should replay ALL cacoawards
Just to get the best of the best
Is it worth it?

simple answer, no.

complicated answer, most of the cacoaward winning megawads are just not good in terms of gameplay in most cases. Sure a lot of them are pretty, but being pretty is great for a painting, but not a video game. A video game should be fun first, and looks should come second.

[Horus]

The Doom mapping scene has developed greatly in recent years. The average mapset these days, Cacoward or no Cacoward, tends to have better gameplay (and visuals) than 2000s era Cacowards imo, and arguably a fair amount of the 2010s as well.

[ITaannl09]

5 hours ago, Bloo said:

complicated answer, most of the cacoaward winning megawads are just not good in terms of gameplay in most cases. Sure a lot of them are pretty, but being pretty is great for a painting, but not a video game. A video game should be fun first, and looks should come second.

yeah that's fair I figured that I just figured it was a great place to start
I have currently be redirected tho and now I'm playing vangaurd

[Guff dotD]

5 hours ago, Bloo said:

simple answer, no.

complicated answer, most of the cacoward winning megawads are just not good in terms of gameplay in most cases. Sure a lot of them are pretty, but being pretty is great for a painting, but not a video game. A video game should be fun first, and looks should come second.

 

Subjective answer for a dichotomous question.

[volleyvalley]

It's all up to you in the end of the day, just pick out something, that looks interesting to you and then play it.

[Bloo]

2 hours ago, Guff dotD said:

 

Subjective answer for a dichotomous question.

to be fair, any answer given to this person would be a subjective answer considering that he asked our opinion ya know lol

[natashanightmare]

Personally i'm more interested in playing current year wads that haven't won a caco yet, and seeing if i can guess the winners, i think being a judge would be fun haha

[espilka]

no?

[DoomPlayer00]

Cacowards as a whole to me is a good condensed example of how the mapping scene's evolved over the years.

 

If you're interested in that sort of thing, then go for it.

[baja blast rd.]

12 hours ago, Bloo said:

simple answer, no.

complicated answer, most of the cacoaward winning megawads are just not good in terms of gameplay in most cases. Sure a lot of them are pretty, but being pretty is great for a painting, but not a video game. A video game should be fun first, and looks should come second.

 

Subjective or not, this is just insulting a lot of people's work tbh. 

 

Would keep in mind that these days, most releases that people (even inexperienced authors) put plenty of care into are 'pretty' or have some other strong, distinguishing aesthetic qualities. Skimming through W&M right now, most wads there are pretty in some way -- counting the smaller single-map releases too. So that's just the baseline these days, get used to it. :P Doesn't mean it's the main thing being selected for.

Another thing to realize is that some players are more 'specialists' who have a small number of types of gameplay they really like (out of the dozens of gameplay MOs that are regularly mapped for). It's super unlikely that most of the 20+ awards are going to be mostly in single specialist's comfort zone. Everything featured covers a lot of range, which is kind of the point. That doesn't mean that everything outside your comfort zone is Unfun and 'not good at gameplay'. Just one example here: specialist A hates slaughter and ideally wants nothing to be slaughtery or artificially difficult hard; specialist B wants most everything challenge-or-slaughter adjacent or at least have that philosophy. Can't (and imo don't care to) satisfy both. Kind of the plight of narrower tastes imo. :P 

 

But that does get to the point that the awards are IMO more for omnivores and people trying to get past their comfort zone, than for specialists who know what specific types of wad they really like and would rather dig into more of those specifically. 

[Bloo]

13 hours ago, baja blast rd. said:

 

Subjective or not, this is just insulting a lot of people's work tbh. 

 

Would keep in mind that these days, most releases that people (even inexperienced authors) put plenty of care into are 'pretty' or have some other strong, distinguishing aesthetic qualities. Skimming through W&M right now, most wads there are pretty in some way -- counting the smaller single-map releases too. So that's just the baseline these days, get used to it. :P Doesn't mean it's the main thing being selected for.

Another thing to realize is that some players are more 'specialists' who have a small number of types of gameplay they really like (out of the dozens of gameplay MOs that are regularly mapped for). It's super unlikely that most of the 20+ awards are going to be mostly in single specialist's comfort zone. Everything featured covers a lot of range, which is kind of the point. That doesn't mean that everything outside your comfort zone is Unfun and 'not good at gameplay'. Just one example here: specialist A hates slaughter and ideally wants nothing to be slaughtery or artificially difficult hard; specialist B wants most everything challenge-or-slaughter adjacent or at least have that philosophy. Can't (and imo don't care to) satisfy both. Kind of the plight of narrower tastes imo. :P 

 

But that does get to the point that the awards are IMO more for omnivores and people trying to get past their comfort zone, than for specialists who know what specific types of wad they really like and would rather dig into more of those specifically. 

 

I know it's insulting, it's why I said it.

EDIT: As an honest person, I don't want to erase this; but I do want to edit in an apology in this message directly.

 

I was out of line for what I said here. I can't take back my words. I spoke while emotional and although that doesn't change anything, you do at least deserve an apology. I am sorry.

Edited October 3, 2023 by Bloo

[crusty_charlie]

Definitely a lot of worthwhile projects up there but don't force yourself into playing something you straight up don't enjoy just because they got a Cacoward. Think of them like a "greatest hits" of that particular year of Doom mods.

[Guff dotD]

17 minutes ago, Bloo said:

 

 I know it's insulting, it's why I said it.

 

Bro what??

[Bloo]

24 minutes ago, Guff dotD said:

 

Bro what??

It all started with lilith.pk3. that's all I will say.

[Maribo]

Video games would be a dreadfully boring medium if the be-all-end-all goal of every artist was simply "be fun". Same kind of sentiment as believing every movie should be a neat thriller that wraps up in 120 minutes or every book should be Serious Literature(tm). Grain of Salt said it best.

[whybmonotacrab]

Cacowards are useful, but definitely don't play all of them. There's a few I'd recommend over others just because they're high quality, super polished versions of their style of mapping and you can use them to gauge what you're looking for. For instance, you might play Lost Civilization and be like "this is well designed, but these long maps aren't for me" and lean more towards Scythe 2 and its ilk - or do completely the opposite because you prefer atmosphere and world building over short, combat heavy maps.

 

 I'd highly recommend giving @Not Jabba's excellent Roots: The Evolution of Doom Level Design a read. It was instrumental in helping me work out what I was into, and when I found levels I liked I'd go back to this article, work out where it slotted in, and use it to find more maps of its type.

 

 It's also worth noting your tastes may change as you play more Doom wads. I hated slaughter and super challenging maps when I was first starting out, and now I love them. Some mappers styles I bounced off at first and then later grew to appreciate them. Don't stop trying new things outside your comfort zone once you work out what you like. 

Edited October 3, 2023 by whybmonotacrab

[AbeAwesome]

1 hour ago, Bloo said:

It all started with lilith.pk3. that's all I will say.

What's wrong with lilith.pk3? 0_o

[Bloo]

1 minute ago, AbeAwesome said:

What's wrong with lilith.pk3? 0_o

it was cool, but not not at all caco worthy

[Snaxalotl]

2 minutes ago, Bloo said:

it was cool, but not not at all caco worthy

they should put you in charge of the cacowards, since you know better than everyone currently writing them.

[Bloo]

1 minute ago, Snaxalotl said:

they should put you in charge of the cacowards, since you know better than everyone currently writing them.

honestly don't. I just don't agree with their decisions though either.

[Doomkid]

So you know what is and isn't caco worthy, but you also don't know better than the people currently writing them?

 

That's crazy dude

[Bloo]

Just now, Doomkid said:

So you know what is and isn't caco worthy, but you also don't know better than the people currently writing them?

 

That's crazy dude

No I just think that they let personal feelings cloud their judgment often. I'd rather not go into specifics.

[Dreamskull]

Bloo is right, but you can still play them. The real question is why do you have to ask us all beforehand for permission?

 

You know plenty well someone was going to tell you "no" and whatever else. Also, its not subjective thing. Thats a copout.

 

The awards were given for serious reason. Its not floofy as you want to make it. It happened. What are you going to do?

Edited October 3, 2023 by Dreamskull

[Monocled]

44 minutes ago, Maribo said:

Video games would be a dreadfully boring medium if the be-all-end-all goal of every artist was simply "be fun". Same kind of sentiment as believing every movie should be a neat thriller that wraps up in 120 minutes or every book should be Serious Literature(tm). Grain of Salt said it best.

I don't entirely agree with you cause that was the main idea of ULTRAKILL and that game is one of the best ever imo, But yeah some aren't that fun but have amazing story's and atmosphere like Bioshock and Bioshock is amazing even if the gameplay isn't great

[Bloo]

2 minutes ago, Dreamskull said:

Bloo is right, but you can still play them. The real question is why do you have to ask us all beforehand for permission?

 

You know plenty well someone was going to tell you "no" and whatnot.

Dreamskull is right, it's best for you to get your own opinion of them yourself and not let anyone allow you to make the decision of whether or not it is good.