The DWmegawad Club plays: Sign of Torment

[bioshockfan90]

MAP02: The Loudest Silence

 

100K | 85I | 0S

 

I didn’t think it was possible to stretch out a map for so long with 36 monsters (on the difficulty I’m playing on, anyway). More atmosphere, the sector text continues implying that this may be some sort of hellish purgatory that Doomguy is trapped in. I admittedly got a bit lost here, not checking areas I had already been in to use the RK, so it took me longer than I’d care to admit to beat the map, but it is what it is. I’m really curious as to where the black key was, I wonder if I missed out on any major goodies from that. Don’t know what the white key does other than maybe open up red doors in the main building. Oh yeah, and faux-3D with floor-on-floor Boom technology. Is it just me or are the blood pits built with a bit of slowness into them as well?

 

Overall, really pleased with this one, and on continuous little threat to be had and I can’t imagine it being that bad on pistol starts either. Still maximizing my ammo though and using chainsaw/fist when possible to avoid running out of shells later on. We’ll see what comes of that. Kinda glad I went in with no knowledge, now my curiosity is just piqued that much more. 

[espilka]

15 minutes ago, bioshockfan90 said:

I’m really curious as to where the black key was, I wonder if I missed out on any major goodies from that.

 

Spoiler

Quite near to the entrance door to there's a switch behind one of the crates to the left, that lowers another crate in the room.

 

[Christophine Place]

MAP02: The Loudest Silence
Another interesting one. Again, love the theme and setting of this wad so far, I especially really like the use of red, white, and black, gives a very bright yet bleak look to it. :)

Something I didn't notice until opening to the automap was how much room over room there is in this map. Nearly every room is on a different floor, and I'm weirdly impressed at how seamless it is. Combat's not much to speak of, but the atmosphere is still very sinister and odd, loving that.

Again not too much to say about this map specifically, but I'm excited to see more of this wad. :)

[Kain D.]

Honestly, this is kind of surprising to see my wad here after almost 2 years since its release. Sign of Torment is a wad, that you either love it or hate it.

October isn't exactly a month, where I have a lot of free time. Maybe I'll write more when/if you get to the second episode.

 

I'm taking a back seat and I'll let @Pechudin have a blast :)

 

@dobu gabu maru Maybe, it might be useful to split maps order into episodes. I don't know.

 

On 10/1/2023 at 9:39 AM, Pechudin said:

Prepare for long writeups. @Kain D. is it OK for me to link to my unlisted videos of playtesting?

It's up to you. I don't mind. Most of them aren't unlisted anyway.

 

On 10/1/2023 at 9:39 AM, Pechudin said:

 Perhaps the maps have changed since I playtested them.

There is a very high propability for that.

 

On 10/1/2023 at 10:06 AM, Pechudin said:

(appear white on the automap) - what's up with that? If it's to complicate secret-hunting,

Probably to hide silent teleporter lines. In Gzdoom these lines are visible on automap, unlike in PrBoom+. But I created this wad years ago, I can't remember.

 

On 10/1/2023 at 12:26 PM, Spectre01 said:

Is continuous play recommended because of extra tight ammo balance?

 

On 10/1/2023 at 2:20 PM, Pechudin said:

But also the final episode is IMO health-and-ammo scarce, brutal even in cases.

Not ammo, I don't do ammo starvation(only cells might be limited for obvious reasons). I tried to design the maps, that there isn't much difference between pistol start and continous play.
Continous is encouraged, like @Pechudin said due to narrative reasons.

 

19 hours ago, General Roasterock said:

 I’ll be honest, for a mapset that is meant to be “unique in comparison to mainstream wads” that was a pretty bog standard opener.

Wait for it.

 

Some random facts:

-At first it wasn't a goal to push Boom to the limit, but during development I discovered, that there are a lot of features, that are completly unused.

-In this wad from story perspective you don't play as Doomguy, but a completly different person. I was tired, that most player characters from the FPS games are goody two shoes.

-Map 01 was originally designed as chainsaw map, but some testers prefered berserk, so it was added.

-Map 11 has an oversight in mapinfo and umapinfo, the last dot from F.O.A.D. is missing. I noticed that a month, or two ago.

-Map 09 name is Şeytanu Akbar, the S has a cedilla {https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cedilla}, like in CWIL graphics. Back there I didn't know if it would work in Dehacked and Mapinfo.
The name means "Satan is the greatest" BTW.

 

I also wouldn't suggest too much of the doomwiki article, because ... Let's just say it could be done better.

 

Quote

representing a metaphorical descent into madness and despair,

It would be more fitting to change madness to darkness, or falling into darkness. Madness doesn't exactly fit in there. I can't say why, because I don't want to put spoilers here.

 

Quote

Most maps feature an easy-to-medium difficulty,

This is very deceiving, because it suggest, that the whole wad has easy-to-medium difficulty. Only the first and second episose might fall into "easy-to-medium difficulty".
I don't understand why it isn't written, that "Difficulty is a mix of Doom 2 and Plutonia.", like in the wad's topic. And what does exactly mean "easy-to-medium difficulty"?

 

Quote

though some lean into mild slaughter.

There are only two maps, that "lean" into mild slaughter and in one of these maps this is debatable. Again very deceiving.

 

Quote

as well as boost the damage of the plasma gun from 5-40 to 7-56.

This isn't true. There is a completly new weapon called "Dark infused plasma gun", that deals more damage. It's introduced in the second episode.

[_goofyguy]

MAP02 - The Loudest Silence
(Ultra-Violence, Continuous)

No tricks OR traps this time, just hiding behind boxes shooting demons with a ridiculously limited supply of ammo and health, which isn't exactly what you'd expect on a doom level (except The Pit. I hate The Pit). The only way of getting shotgun ammo was killing the few shotgun zombies there was, and at one point I was just standing on the stairs firing bullets at a mass of monsters dodging the occasional fireball. The "YOU'RE NOT THE FIRST ONE SENT HERE" message piqued my interest for sure, although I'd already seen signs of it with, you know, all the dead doomguys scattered across the level.
Another surprise revenant (Along with a cacodemon and a fkin mancubus). Not complaining since they're my favorite monster, but on the first and second levels? When you only have a regular shotgun? Okay...

The music's decent, and gives a tense atmosphere. The decoration is reasonable but looks a bit bland in some areas, compared to others. I do think the design of these levels and the decorations placed down are pretty good though! The floor over floor effect is pretty well done, and it took me checking the map to figure out what was happening, and I didn't even notice what was going on until then. It just seems that the floor effect was used for the sake of using it, rather than because it adds to the gameplay, and the layout is simple and linear yet requires a lot of backtracking.

Overall, an okay map. Could use improvements, but I didn't hate playing it at all.

[Celestin]

MAP02: The Loudest Silence

 

The start has more bite than the previous map, with shotgunners inside the central building that can make your health vanish. I've noticed a secret sector here and after a bit of search I've noticed a button behind one of the crates. It revealed a black key, something I didn't expect. It is used to open a teleporter that leads to a chaingun, a weapon I made a good use of, as it trivialised the combat.

 

So, the map centers around a multi-storey building, an extension of the previous level. I quickly located the white key on the second floor and was puzzled what it did, until I spotted another door in the crate room. The pit here holds the red key and some monsters that try in vain to defend it. Now, with all keys you can explore a bit and find a creepy locker room with supplies, or go straight to the exit. It's the weakest part of the level, as it feels haphazard to me, like Kain put some random monsters here and called it a day. Nevertheless, I still find The Loudest Silence to be an enjoyable map.

[General Roasterock]

Map 02: The Loudest Silence

 

  I really didn’t think all the silent teleport shenanigans would be as seamless as they are here, but this is definitely a technology driven wad. I even went back through with a cynical eye to see if any textures shifted around when I hit the triggers, and couldn’t find anything. Good on you  for that. I still feel like it doesn’t make up for the overwhelmingly incidental combat, now locked into each individual floor by the very nature of what a silent teleport needs to work. It doesn’t help that I’m still only warranted up to a Chaingun, and that’s if I found the secret circumcised switch for the Black Key’s hidey-hole. 

  I am very happy that this seems to be turning into a wad that takes pride in its story, and excited to see what the text on the ground represents. I remember someone saying that it touches on mental health, but have no way to verify that up until I see the rest. Again, I’m still looking for this representation of hellish corruption to claim an identity, as even the warps into the supply caches marred by a pentagram require the skybox for the imagination to take over. 

  I think I'm going to wait until the end before actually dropping a Power Ranking. 

[espilka]

MAP03 Dark Lantern - K: 100% / S: 0% (HMP, continuous)

Tally - Deaths: 1 / Secrets missed: 2

 

Everything is starting to ramp up.  The size and complexity of the maps as well as the enemy count and challenge of combat are increasing at a pace.  Layouts and visual designs are starting to include more overtly unique aspects amalgamated seamlessly with traditional ones.  The blind passages (not sure what Kain D. properly calls them) between areas are a new major feature introduced in this map.  As for combat, there are now masses of enemies filling large rooms and also repopulating previously visited areas when backtracking.  My first death came emerging from one of the blind passages to a small room guarded by two Hell Knights and a Revenant, as fighting them from inside the passage turned out to be problematic.  Couldn't say exactly what, but i'm pretty sure my HNTR run on an earlier version of the wad was in some ways slightly different in many details, so it feels to me like some changes have been made for the final version - maybe later i'll be able to identify some for certain.

 

Regarding secrets, here i started overthinking them, imagining them much harder than they actually turned out to be - got for example obsessed with a non-door in the large area with the door to the exit area.  So eventually had to resort to help, and lo' and behold, they were quite standard, and properly indicated, and i should have found them had i not allowed myself to become confounded.  So am not going to say anymore that any secret here is easy, there's just too much going on to thwart normal instincts in their search :D

 

Next map is one of my personal favourites...

[LadyMistDragon]

Map 02: The Loudest Silence

 

We start in front of a base with some scattered opposition and surrounded by the same sort of terrain as the last map - but we're at the main base now, with quite a few enemies that probably hurt us more than we should've let them. Nothing too challenging yet, but we're soon inside and dealing with an increased amount of enemies as a result. Lighting in this bottom warehouse room's quite well-done. Then it's trip to a bloody server room for a key, another trip downstairs into the semi-cinematic moment where an enemy suddenly opens the door to a oval-shaped cavern with red and marble rocks comprising the floor and at least one fairly intimidating enemy. Then it's another trip upstairs, some attempted looting of lockers that doesn't really go over so well because it nets us little, then finally, we're dumped what seems like a helipad at first, but which proves to be a teleporter, blocked by some rather fancy bars that may or may not take us down. We also had some trouble here because we didn't find any secrets and we were running out of shotgun ammo. The Mancubus here must have already been injured though because he'd die in like 4 shotgun blasts but the little two-hitter did quite the number on us. Does the next map promise more? At a certain point, we'll probably end up skipping or falling behind but perhaps.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[NecrumWarrior]

MAP02: THE LOUDEST SILENCE

So it turns out Sign of Torment is a better survival horror experience than Doom 3. I found myself really using my shells carefully and taking the pistol seriously as a weapon for much of the map. When I tried to play this morning before work I simply could not find the white door. I felt pretty dumb finding it immediately just now. I died many times because resources are pretty scarce. I thought to myself, "a chaingun would make a lot of this easy." When I got near the end of the level and hadn't found the black key I checked this thread. Lo and behold, a chaingun in the secret area. fml.

[Catpho]

MAP02 - “The Loudest Silence”

 

Now we're talking. The combat is still banal room clearing, but as an atmosphere piece this does have a certain flair to it. So many optional rooms strewn about, which, alongside the mapset's representationalist tendency towards detailing, credibly evokes the derelict atmosphere of a Deimos-like map. One of the fun things about a more story / vibes heavy mapset is the ability to leave ellipses, and here they take multiple forms, from the key-gated teleporters to... somewhere, the striking and peculiar cave formation in the basement, to yet another ominous message stashed in a forgotten room. Still crude on a craft level & the fighting is a liability, two problems which I suspect will start fading away later as the author gains in skill. However, there is an attention to intrigue that, at the very least, makes me want to see what happens next for a couple more maps. This is what map01 should’ve been imo, not the weird non-event in the final line-up.

Edited October 3, 2023 by Catpho

[bioshockfan90]

MAP03: Dark Lantern

 

100K | 56I | 0S

 

This is *really* showing off the Boom tricks here, there are some maps in UDINO that utilize navigating in the void in narrow corridors to get to other areas, and here it’s a whole damn corn-maze that you traverse around hellish open areas packed to the brim with hitscanners, imps, and maybe the odd mid-tier or two. They repopulate when you hit a switch or grab a key too, adding some surprise to the backtracking. It feels as though parts of the layout are optional and there for story - I don’t see why the area with sector text art was essential to beating the map other than to flesh out the kill counter and add some atmosphere, but it seems atmosphere is the name of the game in this one. 

 

I love the palette replacements, btw, and it’s very gothic. Definitely excited to check out more of this. Oh yeah, can we talk about the AWESOME staircase? Or was that last map? Dang, guess I’ll find out once the proper day hits.

[DeafPixel]

MAP03: Dead Lantern
The previous 2 maps were a warmup. This is where Sign of Torment starts to feel unique. For better and for worse.

The combat in this map is rough to say the least. I can only describe the aesthetic and gameplay sensibilities as ameteurish. The progression in this map reminds me more of Antichamber than a doom level (especially those single colour hallways that connect rooms together). The amount of teleports make the automap useless, and I found myself trying every door in a bunch of similar looking rooms in order to find the exit.

Still, the text in the levels leads me to believe that some of this is intentional. The repeating structures and pitch-black gaps in the map do a good job of conveying what I assume is Doomguy in some sort of pre-death Coma - feels a bit like someone trying to recreate ALT out of vanilla doom textures and weird Boom tricks. For all its clumsiness, there's undoubtedly an interesting idea in here, and im willing to stick out the rough patches in order to see something I haven't before. An interesting failure is better than a boring success in my books.

That being said, nothing can redeem you for silently spawning a chaingunner behind me at point blank range. Seriously?

[Spectre01]

MAP02 - “The Loudest Silence”

 

Interesting progression with how you hit dead ends, backtrack, and come back again later. It goes against modern layout conventions, but works as part of the weird atmosphere the wad is going for. Something like the red key teleport taking you to some optional armour bonuses is certainly a head-scratcher. The visuals also range from having cool bits of detailing to really blocky "my first 90s wad" depending on the area. Texture alignment seems optional. Combat is very straightforward incidental stuff without any surprises. Also worth noting are the solid hanging corpses, which can obstruct movement wherever they appear.

 

MAP03 - “Dark Lantern”

 

Alright, this is cool stuff. Finally the combat is picking up. The room pictured above has an engaging combination of hitscanners and Revenants, and the way areas repopulate silently is also neat. Visuals are also at their most distinct so far, with random patches of void, those black and white transitions, and the awesome spiral staircase. The midi is also a perfect pick for the atmosphere.

[UUN4]

Started playing SoT when I saw this thread on 1 Oct.; it's my first time playing alongside one of these threads as it happens since I've only glanced at/barely lurked in the other threads.

 

MAP03: Dark Lantern

UV | Pistol Start | Saves used

K: 100% | I: 56% | S: 0% | Time: 16:32

 

Only having really delved into the IWADs and not really any PWADs so far, this was the first level in the WAD that really made me say "oh what the fuck" out loud with the silent teleports going between rooms via the dark hallways. I was admittedly made aware of the existence of them via the previous level and its building's multiple floors, and the automap does spoil the effect. However, I still think the effect is cool nonetheless, especially helped by the music giving the WAD a(n appropriately) spooky atmosphere for me.

 

Gameplay-wise, the aforementioned dark hallways definitely made it somewhat confusing to navigate; going through the level usually just boiled down to me going into dark hallway openings without a 100% concrete sense of direction to see if it led anywhere new. Part of me feels like it does help emphasize the spooky atmosphere of the WAD, but as a bullet point for pure gameplay experience I didn't think it was too fun.

 

For combat, it was fun making monsters infight when possible (the first few rooms come to mind). The first room was probably the one I had the most trouble with since I didn't see the megaarmor until after a few deaths, but otherwise the only other death I had was when the imps jumpscared you after getting the white key; that death was mainly because I wasn't able to process the situation fast enough, and on the second go I got through it pretty easily. The only other thing of note I remember was the room with two revenants where I shot one of them behind a wall and the other ended up not waking up, so I was able to kill them one by one; I thought that was cool.

Edited October 3, 2023 by UUN4

[Pechudin]

MAP03: Dark Lantern (UV, PS, No-Save)
A jump in monster quantity, the action is, like the previous map, mostly a front-showing affair (save for the WSK ambush), but this time the density, prevalence of hitscanners and some silent replenishers make the action more dynamic, akin to E1 of UDooM. There is some meat-grinding with the single shotgun but thankfully no Barons.

Some more leitmotifs are presented - the black and white splotches and the "wormholes" used to connect various parts of the facility and Hell-caverns. The wormholes are black, just like the words that appear on the floor. Perhaps the entity that leaves those messages also opens up holes in reality for us to advance through? Whatever the case may be, some people may get turned around by all the teleporting.

The most attractive part of the map is the void-staircase, going from Red to White to Black, and then back to Red color. Kinda like the episodes themselves ... hm ... As for secrets, I did not find any, and I am not too fussed about that.

Verdict - an improvement when compared to the previous map, but still nothing too special. The combat is still pretty rudimentary but satisfying - nothing wrong with blasting some Imps, dancing to the reload animation of the pump-action.

 

EDIT: I decided against posting my old videos. There is too much "talking to the mapper" in it, and I don't have the time to capture more footage.

 

Also, @Kain D., I recall you getting annoyed at me guessing the story wrong when playtesting. Sorry bud but I will do that again probably, as I kind of forgot the details in the story (but got the rough outline). But hey, death of the author is a thing.

Edited October 3, 2023 by Pechudin

[Celestin]

MAP03: Dark Lantern

 

The map begins in yet another techbase, but then you reach a bloody spiral staircase over void. The steps then change to white, then black, then orange. I can't deny, this is a rather unnerving part. Too bad the rest of the map can't match this. The bulk of Dark Lantern takes place in a series of similiar arenas, connected by black tunnels with silent teleporters. I find this somewhat confusing to navigate, the rooms here look and play similiar: red rocks, columns with gargoyle faces and a cast of hitscanners, imps and revenants. I stumbled upon the white key by chance when trying to figure out where to go.

 

The ending consists of some hell knights and cacodemons, which are easy to get fighting one another. There's also a library section here, but besides death threats, it serves no purpose. 

 

I think Kain had some neat ideas here, but wasn't able to execute them properly.

[Christophine Place]

MAP03: Dark Lantern

Very mixed on this one, I'll start with the negatives first: The combat in this one is significantly more involved, but not very well balanced in my opinion. I'll get this out of the way, I absolutely hate shotgunners, and the way they're used here makes it almost impossible to not take about 80 damage. Another thing that I really hate in a lot of maps is having to use the regular shotgun on mid to high tier enemies, I found it more fun to get them to infight with each other then use the chainsaw on them while they're distracted. It's a shame because the combat makes up a decent chunk of the map because I absolutely love the rest of it. I think it could absolutely be improved by adding a berserk, more health, and some green armour.

 

Right, onto the positives: Again, the colour usage here is really nice, and I like how the setting seems to move more towards caves despite still feeling like some place suspended in space. I really like the patches of black on the walls, feels like parts of the world you're in are being taken away/falling apart from reality (although I didn't briefly think I was playing in the wrong IWAD at first lol).
But the absolute best thing about this map is the impossible 3D spaces, it's not necessarily a new concept, not even to Doom, but the way it's done so seamlessly using Boom lines looks is really impressive and looks awesome! I love the doorways where you step into nothingness, with only slits of white to guide you to completely new areas, and the staircase spiraling over itself multiple times with a sky wall was really cool to walk through.

Overall, progression and visuals are fantastic, but I really didn't like how it played unfortunately. Hoping you either get more powerful weapons, or the hitscanners are turned down a bit in the later maps.

[espilka]

MAP04 Legacy of Blood - K: 99% / S: 81% (18/22) (HMP, continuous)

Tally - Deaths: 2 / Secrets missed: 6

 

For me this whole map is a masterpiece, in the Top 3 of all PWAD maps i've ever played.  Corridors and halls carved in blood, blood-draped rooms, halls drowned in blood in a fantastical structure with one of the largest containment areas i've ever seen, marble halls, dark pathways, teleports and even an outside maze, all holding within many many secrets.  One thing i really appreciate about this set is that it does not hold back, nothing is done half-heartedly, but everything always unapologetically and with total conviction.  The only set that this brings to my mind, while yet having superficially little in common, is Eternal Doom.

 

On my blind playthrough long ago i got perhaps half of the secrets, and neither of the secret keys leaving many rooms out of my reach and now i was determined to do better.  i spent about 1,5h on this map - anyone notice i love exploration? (in addition to being a particularly slow player..) - and the results were acceptable for me; in particular i was glad to figure out the White Skull Key, but i did not get the White Keycard last time, either (i seem to remember it was openly on top of a tower of crates last time, and now that had been changed.)  Also was nice to get to the area among the crates i last time did not find access to (the one via teleport).  Ultimately i simply ran out of ideas for the remaining secrets (such as the 2nd teleport at the end of the outside maze) so was compelled to leave them for a future playthrough.

 

Progression itself is far from straightforward, lots of backtracking and again, repopulation of relevant areas, and gameplay, vis-a-vis encounters, have for me a lot of interesting variations from the norm, such as monsters hidden within blood-filled rooms until the player walks into their space, or behind walls of blood - and yet, at the heart it's all quite classic, which is my personal preference over modern designed combat scenarios.  i died once near the start when entering the containment area by some Chaingunner or somesuch.

 

To my mind at least all flirtation with mainstream-sets is now over, the introductory phase is concluded, even if there are still many many mechanics and tricks to be introduced along the way, and the set is speeding decidedly ahead forging its own path - which yet always will be rooted in classicism (and which sets this wad apart from most other non-mainstream wads, that generally rather attempt to turn the game into something else.)

 

Something about this map, from the containment area to the bloodwalls, from the maze to the void, how every aspect amalgamates, is very evocative to me, even personal.  Like i said before, no rankings for this set, but if i ranked this map with the scale i was ranking D2ISO, it would be: 5+

[Pechudin]

11 minutes ago, espilka said:

Stuff

 

Nice to see varied opinions. Not quite midnight where I am but my opinion is less favorable for this one.

[espilka]

2 minutes ago, Pechudin said:

 

Nice to see varied opinions. Not quite midnight where I am but my opinion is less favorable for this one.

 

Agreed, and also judging from what i've read so far i'd expect so :D

[Devalaous]

ah shit, another megawad ive never heard of to add to my list of 'centuries of wads I will never beat in my lifetime'. THANKS GUYS.

Edited October 3, 2023 by Devalaous

[_goofyguy]

MAP03 - Dark Lantern
(Ultra-Violence, Continuous)

You start the level in a dark void, with only a shotgun pickup lit up on the ground. Stepping on this pick up lights up the room to reveal 2 hell knights and a squadron of imps who start firing at you. Pretty great opening! The rest of the level is action packed, involving many different types of enemy to keep you on your toes. Midway through the level you zoom up a staircase that cycles through the three main colors of the wad; white, black and red. Thematic. Going through strange dark pockets leads you to fighting a revenant and a hell knight before eventually leading back to the initial room and through the red door leading to a maze of rooms filled with chaingunners and revenants. Once I had the white skull I didn't know where to go at all, and it took me a while to find the one set of doors leading to the exit that looked a hell of a lot like every other door that didn't lead to the exit. It's a very long level and it's filled with a crazy amount of stuff that makes it seem like they ripped the budget from the first two levels, yet there are also parts of the map which seem to serve almost no purpose bar lore, like the library next to the white skull door. The music also sounds very much like a finale and not something you'd find in the third level of a Boom wad. The difficulty spike hits pretty hard here, yet there are barely any heals at all.
Overall, a pretty good level! It certainly feels like it's trying too hard to be a good level after the last two, but it's still my favourite for now.

[LadyMistDragon]

Map 03: The Dark Lantern

 

We start off in what might be the lower section of the base, if not another one entirely. But very quickly, the map brings on the surrealism and takes in addition to locales set entirely in hell some which happen to be in the void. It seemed almost like at first this would be another techbase, but the numerous blood pools suggest this won't be the case and indeed it isn't after going through one outdoor area and practically without warning transforms into a multi-colored circular stairwell over a void so quickly your head will swim and the weirdly empty passageways only marked by black and white connecting most of the different areas. Most of them have this beautiful curving ceiling texture covering everything, often accompanied by a large group of corpses.

 

Which is where we get to the combat and this is where things somewhat fall flat. See, Cacodemons and Hell Knights will basically attack us from the jump and while they're not consisting of overwhelming numbers, there's enough to make us beg for a super shotgun. Probably in a secret somewhere, but it's likely too obscure to bother with. Worst yet is one of the largest rooms here, chock-full of hitscanners and just as likely as not to tear anyone apart who's foolish enough to think they can survive a dash across the room. Basically, as many visible hitscanners as possible should be targeted before moving on. To be more specific, it's yet another fenced in void-area with a white key and a rather nasty Imp ambush the chaingun actually makes lots of sense for! This might be just a bit long in the tooth, yet rooms are generally concise combat-wise for the most part, but this does show the weakenesses of the chaingun.

 

It was some time before we found the white key door, down some stairs in a marble area we'd missed earlier leading from the large room we'd mentioned before. Open the white key door here, we find an exit switch. But first, we found it prudent to head to the left, through a library with some garbage combat and a spooky room at the end. There was probably a secret we missed but no matter. It definitely feels like combat was not given primary consideration, and it shows, but things still work out better than you might think! The visuals manage to be oddly repetitive though to the point of near-excess.

 

 

 

Edited October 3, 2023 by LadyMistDragon

[General Roasterock]

Map 03: Dark Lantern

 

  This is what I’m talking about with identity. I’ve finally witnessed the next gear kicking in, and that spiral staircase in between dimensions is what currently defines the wad for me with its visual starkness, dedication to the current palette that has been presented, and immersiveness to the point that I didn’t even recognize it was wrapping overtop of itself until I made it past four different colors. It’s a pretty tried and true vision of hell, but it’s a pretty clear establishment.

  To say that’s the best part of the map is somewhat unfortunate. I consider myself to have gotten very lucky with the navigation through purposefully labyrinthine caves of red, my abundance of ammo only fueled by the Berserk secret. There wasn’t even the justification for room over room to have the caverns warp you all over the place, it was just meant to show the vastness of Hell, I think. I clocked in at fifteen minutes for 200 monsters, and that’s with my perceived good luck.

  One thing I am nervous about is how incidental rooms get repopulated on key events. I like to take comfort in my assurances with Doom’s tropes of “corpses mean this room is done”, and knowing that there could be another cluster of demons dropped into a cavern I already cleared out makes me nervous for the runtime of future levels. That’s technology for you.

  The music was really good though, remarkably triumphant.

[bioshockfan90]

MAP04: Legacy of Blood 

 

100K | 79I | 77S

 

Jesus, where do I even begin? What an absolute MINDFUCK of a map, best summarized as follows:

 

E2M2 but you’re stuck in a nightmare. 

 

It’s crazy how many secrets there are in this map, normally when you open up a map and see 22 secrets, you don’t actually assume there are going to be *22 secrets*, just sectors upon sectors in the same secret. Nope, all unique and I didn’t even find them all! It took me 40+ minutes to get all kills here, I had to use the wiki to get the white keycard and there were STILL unexplored areas in the map when I decided to leave. The aesthetics are crazy, there’s fountains of blood where you see in red, a crazy pentagram chaingunner invul room, lots of blood traversal, so much so that it looks like something out of a Lovecraft novel, and I could just keep going.

 

This map drained the fuck out of me and I’m glad it’s over, honestly if the secrets were more streamlined I could’ve been out of here faster, hell, if I didn’t care so much about the alluring mystery of these differently-keyed doors I could’ve been out of here faster, but it just draws you in and does not let you off the hook. So many minute details to talk about, so little time. I’m sure someone here will do better than me, but all I gotta say is “good luck” because this is just so much to take in. I’m shocked that this megaWAD is as good as it is 4 maps in. Just flabbergasted. 

[Spectre01]

MAP04 - “Legacy of Blood”

 

I wonder if anyone in this thread will 100% this one. I did not find either of the white keys and ended up with around half the secrets after 40 minutes, despite finding the Computer Map. The strongest aspect is still the atmosphere, Boom features like silent teleports, and general weirdness in the design. I also appreciate the plentiful ammo. The combat is serviceable but is still mostly clearing rooms of the monsters placed there. The layout is also extremely flat, even compared to the previous maps. It reminds me of Doom 2's Refueling Base, where it's a bunch of distinct rooms connected by doors and hallways that don't really interact with each other. My least favourite effect is the red screen when entering some of the blood, which is rather unpleasant on the eyes. Overall, this map feels like it's too large for it's own good and I've seen every trick by the halfway point.

[Pechudin]

MAP04: Legacy of Blood (UV, PS, No-Save)
This one may turn off a lot of people (although, reading these comments, a surprising number of people liked it). It cobines several things that by themselves may not be too annoying, but together they can really grate. For starters, there is a short silent-teleporter "puzzle". Then, there is the rudimentary maze that honestly could've been cut from the map and nothing of value would' ve been lost. The combat is also nothing to write home about - more of the same front-facing stuff, popping Zombies, Pinkies, Imps and some heavies with the SSG and SG. Finally, there is the absurd number of secrets (22!) which in a lot of cases have almost nothing to offer, i.e., a couple of health bonuses behind a bloodfall (some may have some lore but didn't find those).

Looks-wise, the map is very flat and angular - also a feature of the first episode of this WAD. This does change later on but the first episode can be rather Wolfenstein-ish. New feature introduced is the colormap-changing areas which in this map unfortunately only serve to blind you with an aggresive red tint.
I did not find the White Keycard, so final 8 or so enemies eluded me. I hope that missing the key did not lock me out of any lore (I could check it out in the editor but I'd rather see what other people find).

Verdict? A map that is probably too big for its own good. Monster density is low, secrets too abundant if you like to find all of them - a combination resulting in low intensity, which is not too good when the map itself is not really a looker. Not a good map, I have to say. What was up with that White Skull Key-locked room with doors containing single monsters? Dunno, feels like the map lacks a purpose, other than to inform us that "we do not belong to Hell". Due to English language being what it is, it is unclear whether the Entity means "we" as in "them" or "we" as in "us AND them".

[Celestin]

MAP04: Legacy of Blood

 

Legacy of Blood is a large, sprawling maze, where you are never sure if you are making progress or finding one of 22 (sic!) secrets. The combat here is nothing to write home about, espiecially if you stumble upon a super shotgun in the courtyard with crates. It's mostly incidental stuff or rooms with hell knights, cacodemons and red filter. The latter is repeated several times and is just annoying.

 

As for the visuals, it's not good either. A lot of the map uses bloodfalls for walls, making the map even more confusing to navigate. The rest feels disjointed, there is a crate maze, an actual maze of marble walls and the aforementioned bloodfalls. I'm not a fan of this map, it gives off much more rookie vibes than the previous three.

 

4 hours ago, Spectre01 said:

I wonder if anyone in this thread will 100% this one.

I got 20 secrets with a bit of looking around and there were still some monsters left I didn't bother to find.

[General Roasterock]

Map 04: Legacy of Blood

 

  Exited with 21/22 secrets because I got locked out of the Health Bonus group before the crate section.

  I don’t think this map should have held onto me like it did. It’s another cratemaze to cast into the torrential maelstrom of box platforming across the scene, it’s endless flat tubes of blood, it’s spatial puzzling that actually got me stuck for a full minute in the intro, and it’s progression that I mostly discovered through secret hunting after the daunting challenge of finding 22 was presented to me. I will say that the bits where the map communicated otherworldly influence were pretty awesome, like the Chaingun at the beginning turning into the Chaingunner upon an investigation, and the Chaingunner ambush with the Invuln, really good mileage out of that one monster actually. I have a very positive bias to crate platforming, and discovering how to get to the Berserk was a cool aha moment that is the highlight of the wad so far.

  That being said, I think it’s important for everyone to understand that a lot of Boom features are a double edged sword, and holding that sword up higher gives more chances for gravity to drop it back onto your head. The immersive bloodfalls with colormap drenching are cool in theory, but combine it with one of the secrets showering you in health bonuses and you have a recipe for annihilating my fucking eyes. I’m still occasionally turned around by the navigation, which makes locking off parts of your map a sin. If you take away the engine features, then this level amounts to hallways leading to rectangular rooms of four to seven monsters that all vaporize in front of a Super Shotgun, although that is a difficult complaint to make considering how the guns are locked away in secrets.

  On that note, I should probably address the twenty-two elephants in the room because at least one of them is a corpse. This map most definitely did not need that many secrets. I can think of at least a dozen that amounted to a sprinkling of bonuses, many of which were near back to back, especially in the eastern side of the map. At some point after placing down your fourth fake wall bloodfall cavern, the idea of diminishing returns is going to take hold and rip the worth each of these have individually away. Even the automap couldn’t save them, considering that it will show the abstract color dimensions with the singular line of bonuses but not the secret door in the alcove past the White Skull door in the south? It doesn't help that I bumped the White Key through the walls of boxes that hold it by accident, so it was difficult for me to get motivated near the end. 

  I imagine the map is a bayou without secrets, lumping your way through Mancubi with the Chaingun, but that never happened to me so I’ll give it the benefit of the doubt. Also the singular Revenant behind the Red Skull door was really funny and I hope this set does that more.

Edited October 4, 2023 by General Roasterock