The DWmegawad Club plays: Sign of Torment

[Pechudin]

1 hour ago, General Roasterock said:

*snip*

 

I am actually surprised you liked the level particularly - sine for whatever reason I think of you as someone who likes the modern mapsets. Also I read this in the robotic voice.

 

But then I remember you worked on Plutonia 7 and TNT3. So I guess weirdness is kinda your ballgame.

 

 

Ok, I have to say this - when I started reading some of comments of the other forum-goers, I was kinda like the friend showing you something they like, and then anxiously wondering if you don't like it. I know it's not the healthiest mindset but I have some connection to this wad, if only because I helped playtest it.

[espilka]

MAP05 Blood and Chaos - K: 102% / S: 100% (HMP, continuous)

Tally - Deaths: 7 / Secrets missed: 6

 

We begin in a techbase, but the central area is a hub with three teleporters to areas, all required to finish the map, which repopulates after return from each.  This time the level has only three secrets, one in each of the areas, and i was happy to net them all with relative ease - happiest of all for the RL in the three-storey building, even if somewhat late to be of much use in this map as i had already killed most enemies by then, but was able to use it rather clumsily on the Arch-Vile at the top floor of the building, with the switch to turn on the teleport by the computer-terminal - frankly he would have been easier to kill with the SSG. 

 

But there is the mechanic introduced in this map (which might be used a time or two in later maps); the necessity of powering on various devices, with the switch always being found by following the power line..  For me, it was a bit annoying there was no actual benefit to achieving that here, as the teleport only took you back to the hub, and i was expecting at least something akin a treat for a dog who managed a trick - maybe a health potion or an armour bonus...and a secret tagged :)

 

Obviously, for me it's yet another awesome map in all respects - design, aesthetics, combat, progression, secrets.  As much as i admired this set on my blind run, and was fascinated with figuring things out as it was all new to me (and failing quite a bit, but did manage to finish the set without cheats, albeit sans most secrets), now i can also enjoy this on the level of pure gameplay.  My deaths, five in all, in this map were quite silly and unnecessary - i was sloppy with the hub-Arch-Vile, mistiming my hide'n'peek&shoot couple of times, and also got killed once by hitscanners and a Mancubi, in different waves in the hub.  Part of me thinks i should have chosen UV instead, but then i remind myself of some of the later maps...wondering if i still should not have chosen HNTR instead!  Looking at enemy counts on Doomwiki (at least those are always accurate, if descriptions can be misleading or at least opinion-based (while having the air or colour of objectivity)), it seems though that Kain D. has taken care in crafting the different difficulties, never a case of simply adding or lessening monsters, but rather exchanging them in different ratios.

[LadyMistDragon]

Map 04: Legacy of Blood

 

At this point, either our mental state or reality itself has all but collapsed. While little hellish landmarks and green vined can be spotted throughout, void is everywhere, if not to the extent as the ever-present blood on the streets, blood on the walls, blood on the....but anyway, this map is notable for its use of transparency at several points, not so much to find secrets, though its far easier here than the 3 previous ones. There's also the way vision is reddened upon entering certain fountains of blood, which takes some getting used to! The best part is the whole confused atmosphere here. There are several times when we'll cross through crate mazes that may have represented a shipping and receiving center at one point but now just appears to be a haunted mess. And then there's that one message......so did some Imps mutiny or was this some kind of execution by some now-dead marines? It's definitely thought-provoking like something out of Ozonia perhaps, though this is far more psychological than that wad. There's also the "don't talk to me or my son ever again" teleporting pair where the smaller one take you to some Deimos Anomaly homage, which in this context isn't really that bad!

 

The combat is also slightly improved from the previous map. Although it feels like infighting is expected to some degree, hitscanners are nowhere near as obnoxious, save the point where we were returning from the black key location and had to face down some chaingunners but hiding's not really so difficult. Honestly, the exit came quite a bit sooner than we expected. We only had 5 out of secrets at this point, but we were find with that. This is still easily the best so far with the repetition established in such a way that it's more effective than the 3rd map where one hearing the midimight have expected some deadly trap which never came.

 

 

 

 

[Pechudin]

MAP05: Blood and Chaos (UV, PS, No-Save)
GRAYTALL. Wow, I forgot about this one. Actually, I forgot about a lot of maps in the first episode. This one is quite raw in places. Lots of teleporters to single rooms with a Demon or an Imp leading to a key. The centre of the map is the vast, open space with a blood fountain in the centre and teleporters on the perimeter. Some of them lead to weapons (like the SSG), and some to the keys.

The combat is not too inspired, with the exception of the Arachnotron and trash monster combo leading to the multi-storey building. That was a legitimately dangerous fight for someone who does not know it is coming.

But hoo, some of that texturing is quite raw. This map does feature the first appearance of the "text all over the floor" motif. We'll be seeing that one a lot. I like it when the map is straightforward with its intentions.

 

Someone is trying to tell us something, but I am not quite sure what that is ... do they mean "die" as in "the die is cast"?

Edited October 4, 2023 by Pechudin

[DeafPixel]

MAP04: Legacy of Blood

Bad map. Only redeeming quality is that it gives me a super shotgun. Minus points for making it a secret though (How am I even meant to beat the map without it?)
Despite not having too many teleport shennanigans, this map is still a huge pain in the ass to navigate. Again, every level in this wad so far looks like containment area for some reason. Why?

As mentioned by others, this map has a ridiculous amount of secrets. 22 to be exact. I found 3 or 4, and im not going back to check for the others. Theres 2 whole keycards that are completely optional (White Skull and Keycard). Thats a level of optional content that seems quite excessive if im being honest. Anyway, this map was super boring, so i'll just list of some things that annoyed me

-Introduces a new gimmick of underwater(?) sections by making a caco shoot from behind a wall you can't see through right in front of a door... thanks for the death.
-There are so many one way doors here that do not need to be one way doors.
-Repopulating cleared areas with chaingunners is cheap and annoying
-There's seriously just a maze in this level, and it isnt even effective because you can cheese it with the automap.
-The amount of walking from one corner of the map to the other just to try out a door... jeeez

Not a fan of being forced to play through a mapper learning how to map.

[Catpho]

MAP03 - “Dark Lantern”

 

Really cool presentation of reality breaking apart, warts and all. This is actually not the first time I encountered Kain D.'s use of a solid color texture as signify the laws of the universe spiraling out of control: that would be their Mayhem 2022 map, which would fit as a Sign of Torment map in other aspects as well. I haven't played their latest works and WIPs, but having a personal recurring trope is always interesting. Regardless, it's pretty cool to see the juxtaposition between unreal, ethereal solid monochrome and the messy, tactile, near fractal-like cave work and busy decor that's somehow just as unreal. Its other defining attribute is to be very maze-y in attitude, with the connections between the spaces being not so obvious, but it works to the benefit of its overall aesthetic. As a bonus, the gameplay has a presence; which is not exactly the same as good gameplay, but wantonly dumping stuff in Doomguy's face in a forest of pillars, which complicates the pathing a bit, is more fun than the front-loaded room clearing exercise of the previous map.

 

Edit: M4 write up is barely a write up, might as well chuck it in here

MAP04 - “Legacy of Blood”

Heh, now this is something out of 1994, or the many my first maps. It's got personality, I'll give it that, but the foundation is so rudimentary it's hard for any of it to shine. If this were a WIP thread, I would spend more time adjusting my tone or looking towards positives or improvable points, but it's been two years so I hope Kain understands that I won't take this map as a reflection of their output, and the reason why I won't spend the little time I have on a map I don't like. Glad there are people who found it interesting enough to write about it.

Edited October 5, 2023 by Catpho

[DavitW]

I'll be taking it easy this month, playing through continuously on Ultra-Violence. I probably won't be busting my ass trying to 100% saveless on too many maps either.

 

MAP01: Rooms and Shadow
The first map has that void type of design to it which I really like. Fragments of landscape and buildings floating in the void gives it that abstract kind of feeling. But this map is so incredibly 'Map 01' and doesn't try to be anything else, if you know what I mean. That's not automatically a bad thing, but it's just so underwhelming and it's not a great first impression when your opening map feels like filler.

 

MAP02: The Loudest Silence
These maps have a bit of that uncanny, dream like quality to them so far. The outside of the map looks pretty good with some fairly sophisticated geometry, though the inside looks like something right out of 1995. Combat here is also really unremarkable without a single encounter of any real significance. It looked like there was going to be a trap behind the bottom red key door, but it only turned out to be nothing more than a bit of spooky writing on the floor. Speaking of red keys, there's a switch outside you can backtrack to for a few armor and health bonuses, though I'm not sure how many players are going to bother remembering or if it's really worth it.

 

MAP03: Dark Lantern
I'm not a mapper, so I can't tell you how many fancy boom tricks are on display here, but there sure are a lot of silent teleporters. The map can get pretty repetitive and easy to get lost in after a while. It's mostly open caves filled with enemies and connected by these strange pitch black hallways. The silent teleporters mean the automap won't be of too much use here. My typical strategy I employ whenever I get lost of going to the right until I find something new wasn't working too well either. Once again, silent teleporters. Having only the chaingun and shotgun to deal with all these enemies didn't exactly help to make things any more interesting. Gameplay here isn't too demanding, but you can't afford to get careless. There's plenty of ammo around, though health is a bit scarce, so each point you lose early on could come back to haunt you by the end.

Edited October 5, 2023 by DavitW

[bioshockfan90]

Dropping out of the club this month, I realized I want to focus on my blog for a bit and play what I want. I'm happy with 2 months in a row - I got to experience some cool stuff, but I need a break. Seems like there's no shortage of clubbers this month either so I'm not worried about the thread dying. Have fun everyone! :)

[Catpho]

MAP05 - “Blood and Chaos”

To make up for my previous saltiness, I rather dug this one. Once again, Kain's take on a disorienting, unstable vision of hell (internal or external, or both, is hard to say at this point) takes center stage, presenting a series of surreal vignettes. This includes a repeated techbase segment, which is surely the most memorable and strongest piece of storytelling of this wad so far in terms of presentation, starting with paying lip service towards reality with the wiring and computing, only to crash down in a striking moment of corruption. As for the meat of the map, I'm quite digging this set's commitment to perceptual trickery, containing locations that are difficult to chain down to any physical reality, even if they are quite straightforward to navigate this time around. The locations are much better this time around, featuring a legitimately grand sight, while also lacking the Wolf 3D adjacent boxes that made 04 so dull to look at and play in.

The music choices for all the maps are super on point.

Edited October 5, 2023 by Catpho

[Pechudin]

3 hours ago, Catpho said:

The music choices for all the maps are super on point.

 

Really does manage to elevate some more rough maps. Imagine D_RUNNIN on these maps.

[Celestin]

MAP05: Blood and Chaos

 

Nothing special here. Blood and Chaos follows a hub-and-spoke design, with a large arena in the centre and three teleporters that need to be visited to reach the exit. The combat, aside from the first visit to the hub with a bunch of weak monsters to mow down and the SSG fight, is very incidental. 

 

The visual side is a mixed bag, I like the starting section that later gets a fleshy make-over, but on the other hand there are those floating islands that you teleport to while moving around the map. Blood and Chaos continues to use room-over-room techniques, they are well-designed, but we've seen them in previous maps, so it isn't as impressive as earlier on.

 

Five maps in and Sign of Torment looks like the vision is being held back by the author's inexperience. I hope it will improve eventually.

[Pechudin]

1 hour ago, Celestin said:

Five maps in and Sign of Torment looks like the vision is being held back by the author's inexperience. I hope it will improve eventually.

 

They do, but it is true some starter maps are kinda rough. Good news is, I think MAP07 and onwards get progressively better.

 

Also, I was playing some maps out of order (like MAP20), and realized that maybe I should not do so - because some maps may have callbacks to earlier maps (flashbacks, as rudimentary as they can be in Doom) so I'll stop that.

[Azure_Horror]

21 hours ago, Pechudin said:

Someone is trying to tell us something, but I am not quite sure what that is ... do they mean "die" as in "the die is cast"?

Holy shit, this makes so much sense with the way those words are placed!

I don't know, if such an interpretation was intentional for "The Room of many 'Die' ", but whatever the intention may have been, "casting the die" feels appropriate given everything we have seen so far!

[General Roasterock]

Map 05: Blood and Chaos

 

  I think this is a point where a good lesson on navigation can come to light for anyone reading this. The exit is behind the Super Shotgun path, locked behind multiple key doors. In order to get to the doors, you have to warp between half a dozen islands populated with individual monster challenges and such. Now let’s say that you didn’t get both of the necessary keys first, meaning you have to take the teleporter back to the circle pit. That means you have to warp through the islands again, one of them being a wrap of damaging floor that will most certainly tag you at least once on the way through, in order to return to the doors with the proper keys to get to the area with the Red Skull. That then teleports you back into the circle pit, whereas the Red Skull Door is back where the other key doors were. That’s another trip through the islands in order to get to it. NOW let’s consider getting to the secret bundle of rockets that was locked near the beginning. You need to take the teleport to the exit switch after getting all the keys and then go back into the main progression to unlock that door, and there’s no fast way back to the exit switch after that. That’s another trip back through the islands in order to exit after grabbing the secret, which amounts to a bunch of rockets that will immediately disintegrate for pistol starters. That’s a minimum of twice through this string of teleports just to exit, and a very likely four times minimum for a blind playthrough, not even considering the only weapons worth a damn are locked into the back end of this route, which would add one more loop to anyone who wants to get those as soon as possible. This isn’t fun, it’s a tedious extension of what is otherwise a good map, and it has roots in what I’ve played so far as well. 

  Despite this sore thumb, I had a pretty good time. This is easily the best the combat has been up until this point. The grandiose circular arena that branches off into the keys was really fun to optimize, leaving a bunch of enemies behind to bunch up and ultimately start infighting was a cool gamble to take, and the limits on the Rocket Launcher ammo encourage this thoughtfully and unobtrusively. These maps that drop a berserk in do give potential for the player to create their own fun, trying to work over Cacodemons and Hell Knights with fists alone. I feel like this could have improved with dropping that Super Shotgun early if it really wanted to keep the island hopping, as even continuously there hasn’t been a real game changer in weaponry outside of the secrets in Legacy of Blood.

  Also I audibly giggled at the DIE room, sorry. 

[Pechudin]

10 minutes ago, Azure_Horror said:

Holy shit, this makes so much sense with the way those words are placed!

I don't know, if such an interpretation was intentional for "The Room of many 'Die' ", but whatever the intention may have been, "casting the die" feels appropriate given everything we have seen so far!

 

I was being sarcastic, you are reading too much into it. But hey, you CAN interpret it like that. I was just being unecessarily obtuse.

[Pechudin]

MAP06: The Abyss (UV, PS, No-Save)
"Choose wisely", says the text on the floor, and gives us a choice of items - a RL, a SSG, SG and Chaingun, and some other stuff. I personally went for the safe bet - the SSG. One choice is also the Mega-armour which is now black ... kinda like the Entity. Huh.

Anyhow, giving the player a choice of weapons, neither of which may be optimal for all the encounters, is an interesting, rarely used idea. Unfortunately, it's not really used well here. While some fights (incidental mostly) would be less grindy with rockets instead of the SSG, it is still mostly hitscanners, Imps and maybe some Mancs, HKs and Cacos (and Arachnotrons), although, given the ample space perhaps the RL would be a better choice. Just saying that some tighter, close-quarters fights would be a good choice if the player picks the RL.

Speaking of fights, it is still mostly incidental. The huge central area got me good the first time I tested this map - I scoffed at the Blursphere, lowered the wall and immediately turned right back to pick it up. Oh yeah, you thought the 350-odd monsters would mean the map is long? Well, most of those are a part of the ridiculous Chaingunner horde. They will mostly kill each other, perhaps if there was some elevation difference then they would not just commit fratricide instantly. But hey, demons are chaotic I guess. Going through the teleporter transports us into the alternate reality version of the arena - now with black strands where the bloodfalls were, and rock turned to ash. Is this the corrupting influence of the Entity?

Anyhow, the player can exit the map with either the Black and Red keycard or skullkey, so killing all the enemies is not mandatory. I will have to dock points for not being able to go back to the initial area, since I think (?) after taking the arena teleporter the initial area is locked off. Perhaps this serves some narrative purpose. Also, I did not like that I had to backtrack through the crushers, perhaps if there was a fight on the way back - a missed opportunity. The music is okay, serves the purpose well.

Verdict ? A somewhat grindy map, but thankfully a lot of the monsters are concentrated in one area. Lots of optional areas (I never saw any white keys for example), so exploration is an option. It's not encouraged too much since ammo is plentiful. It's fine, better than the previous 2 maps but not by too much. After this map I recall the map quality going up and the Boom features being used in fresh new ways. Guess that's the peril of learning as you map.

Edited October 5, 2023 by Pechudin

[LadyMistDragon]

Map 05: Blood and Chaos

 

Hmmm....probably not quite as good as the last map. There are a few areas of tech, but this can largely be termed hellish, but that assumes 'reality' still exists. Though at first, we start in a blood pool where the last map probably ended. The initial base areas introduce yet another feature: broken switches. Some areas aren't receiving power so we have to go somewhere (outside in this chaos) to turn on a backup switch, marked by a gray line's that's probably a wire. This door opens, then we can take the teleporter at the other end of the corresponding room and teleport into a vast circular courtyard with plenty of scattered Imps and zombies to keep us busy for a bit.

 

This courtyard is also a central point of spots. If you're like us, you'll want to take the path with the Super Shotgun on it, marked by a pillar containing a replica of the object, which also happens to be where the exit progression's located. This brings up something else that was more interesting conceptually than in reality: island hopping! I think this is what the latter part of the title probably refers to, something about being on an open battlefield as the cries of your enemies rage around you. Not like that really understands why there's teeny teleport textures running around the edge, but it makes things more clear at the least. At the end of this is a gazebo with a sunken outdoor area between us and the door out of here. There's an Arachnotron across the way, another in the depression with the SS and several Imps, hitscanners and pinkies ready to give us a bad time if we think we can just rush down here.

 

Behind the door is a cruddy sort of Revenant trap, then what appears to be a tower that we climb with an eye at one point hiding a secret courtyard with a rocket launcher. At the top, the first Arch-vile of the wad awaits on our right unobtrusively while Imp children toss their wads at us like a collection of mean-spirited bullies. I think a switch here will allow us to teleport back to the central courtyard, albeit with the issue of several pinkies and Imps that can be taken out easily with the Super shotgun. The other welcoming communities greeting players coming from the other paths proved to be far more scattered. One is this rather dull thing over a darkened pit. The other is....well, there's a room where DIE is plastered literally everywhere and somehow, we might as well be engaging with animals rather than an intelligent race. The other message in the map we saw should probably have told us this was coming, but anyway, we get the last key in a red brick warehouse room, backtrack to the storage shed where the two keys are needed, teleport to an island with an Imps and another key, then head back again, not even bothering with the distant Arch-vile tha just arrived when the SSG teleporter was closer and finally, headed back to the exit door, which just led back to the beginning, revealing a gate which just opened...to a demonic fortress? This isn't Hellbound and doesn't really try to end maps the same way but continuity can still be detected. Pretty good, although the concept probably hurt the map in this case.

 

 

 

[espilka]

MAP06 the Abyss - K: 100% / S: 100% (HMP, continuous)

Tally - Deaths incurred: 7 / Secrets missed: 10

 

Complaints first: perhaps it's thematic, but gameplay-wise i was unhappy not being able to return to the earlier dimension, as i went to the second before exploring the eastern door there - so i missed quite a bit of kills and secrets, and adventure, on account of that!  There, that's my complaint.  Other than that, the map brings no surprises on gameplay or ethos, continuing in the same vein with slightly altered form as the previous maps.  Combat-wise the new feature are the arena fights, first against hitscanners, including Chaingunners, and in second dimension in same arena altered against an army of Arachnotrons.  Island-in-the-void hopping, introduced lightly in the previous map, forgot to mention that, is now used to good effect with the added complexity of routing with the correct teleports and danger of teleporting enemies.  There's also a cool crusher-corridor, and if memory serves - and it might not - i think it's also an introduction of sorts.  Lots of cool varied areas, lots to explore for those so inclined, lots of very classical combat.

 

Along the island-hopping, the other most fantastic section is of course in the void, where the player follows paths led by candles only.  i feel half-bad for resorting to use the automap to help navigate, especially since it's not really necessary (if and when i play this set on UV - on my next playthrough - i promise i won't use it) - but it is a legit feature of the game, and in instances where the author doesn't wish the player to use it he has oft-times removed the lines visible, so...

 

Anyway, everyone knows my opinion by now - extraordinary map that i again only appreciate more on my second playthrough.  Remarkably, no sloppy deaths this time, and again, only half of the secrets because i'm sure i missed many behind the door i didn't get to.  Oh, i chose the WSK at the start - which turned out, i think to be a good choice, i was generally happy with what i found behind doors opened with it.  i could also announce already also, that i've now confirmed this is firmly in my Top-3 megawads of all time.. i'm sort of glad my newbie-instincts when playing this before were correct.

[_goofyguy]

MAP04 - Legacy Of Blood
(Ultra-Violence, Continuous)

Well, this level certainly is full of blood. A massive cargo box maze, monsters and secrets hidden behind waterfalls of blood, hell knights and chaingunners and mancubi and shotgunners and chaingunners and revenants and did I mention chaingunners? You can FINALLY get a super shotgun, though it is hidden behind a secret. The combat in this level is much more fun this time around, and the monsters hidden behind a blood waterfall is a nice idea. Overall a fun level, much better than the last few.

 

MAP05 - Blood and Chaos

WHY IS THERE AN ARCHVILE
This level is pretty frustrating. Courtyards that give you no clues what to do, islands with teleporters on the edges, puzzles that ALSO gives you no clues what to do, pixel perfect strafe run platforming. Almost no health pickups again, meaning I continually got one shotted by fucking hitscanners from across the courtyard. Tedious as hell trying to figure out which teleporter takes you to the correct island. Fun at first, but ultimately not my favourite.

[General Roasterock]

Map 06: The Abyss

 

  I’m posting earlier than I do usually to say for the love of FUCK do not pick up the White Skull at the start unless you know exactly where everything is. This choice of resources is a really cool way to give the map replayability, allowing people to pick what they’re comfortable with and take on the map how they want. Taking the White Skull means that feature won’t come into play until you find a White Skull stash, which could be several minutes down the line if you don’t know about the secrets at the start, several minutes of single shotgun against possibly a Baron. I played this map three times, once with only the White Skull, once by sneakily easing my way to the backpack from the start and then taking the Rocket Launcher path, and then once by easing into the Backpack, Rocket Launcher, and then taking the White Skull with foreknowledge of all the secrets, and only in the final run could I get my time below 15 minutes. The first two stashes at the start are downright critical to whether or not the option works out for you in the long run, but skipping the crushers was cool.

  The large scale arena fights, if on the easy side, are a needed fresh breeze. Here again are the Chaingunners saving the combat, something that would never have been on the bingo card if you showed me the aggregate of this set up until this point, and the Arachnotron horde was nice popcorn made harmless with the Invuln. Beyond that, the homogeny drawback of dedication to the episode theme combined with the simple room ideas is starting to take hold. If you dropped me in one of the marble crypts filled with blood and asked me to determine which map it came from, I am not entirely confident that I could. For every Chaingunner moshpit punctuated with a icy white jagged cut in space, there are half a dozen brick lunchboxes that shake a Hell Knight and a couple Shotgunners out of the walls. It entirely relies on Doom’s combat loop to be as good as it is to support these rooms without doing anything that hasn’t been achieved over the course of thirty years. 

  I’ve lost count as to how many times this wad has used the “Remember this area? Now it is this area but BLOOD” and it only allowed this map to make two more Black Key hunts that both hurt: one because it’s just another maze that can be defeated by opening the map, and one where you could just guess the wrong teleporter on a coin flip and waste so much time bouncing back around. I am very much not happy to do the Black Skull section after playing Blood and Chaos, it’s the exact same teleport chain boiled down to a singular point of insignificance. Surely someone else is seeing this too. I would be fine if it was just the visuals that were samey, but it feels like the idea vat is getting shallower. I trust in the process though.

[Crusader No Regret]

The buzz about this set caught my interest enough to play this.  I'm settling in for gimmicky, weird, and experimental.  Going for HMP continuous with the Gun Bonsai mod.  Hopefully playing in GZDoom doesn't break anything.

 

  For those who've played thousands of custom maps by now, I think it's safe to skip the first two maps.  They seem more about setting the atmosphere and internal narrative but the gameplay feels rote.  Died once on the first map by trying and failing to creep along ledges.  On the winning attempt, didn't take any damage after getting the berserk, welcome since there's very little health to recover from mistakes.  Maybe the first demons upon picking up the key are for narrative as monster blocking lines render them harmless unless one carelessly drifts too close.  Spotted the shotgun but failed to work out how to reach it.  Fists leveled up in this short map and I take the Sweep upgrade, which allows successful punches to hurt monsters close to the target.  Fun for berserk punching packs.

  Second map finished similar to the first with all kills and no secrets.  About as densely populated as an E1 map with gameplay to match.  Managed to spot the black key but couldn't work out the path to it.  Carefully preserved every recolored health and armor bonus I found until after everything was dead so I could enter the next map at 117/117.  Pistol, chainsaw, and shotgun all got upgraded though none of them felt super impactful.

 

  Third map is where things start to stand out.  The spiral staircase in the void is going to be an iconic scene for this set.  Lots more monsters to deal with.  I had fun abusing monster block lines and door camping with fast doors and key doors to bait lots of infighting.  Still plenty of midtier monsters to grind down with shotgun, and later chaingun.  I got lost the first time I played this map and couldn't figure out where to go with the white skull key so I ended up playing through this twice.  Came close to dying a time or three but pulled through.  Got some meaningful upgrades starting on this map.  Early on, mod let me attack Rapid Fire to my shotgun, speeding up the shotgun grind.  Also got the fire upgrade for it (afflicted monsters slowly burn down to 50% of max health) and near the end, added 1 level of damage.  Earned instant weapon switching close to the end as well which I find super convenient to have.  Also satisfied to break my streak of not finding any secrets; tracked down hidden berserk.

 

Map 4: 17/22 secrets located  No white skull though.  Disappointing as I really wanted that Soulsphere behind a window.  Still, found enough hidden stuff to exit the map at 189/200.  I'll write more about this map later.

 

  Though I have a few gripes about this one (being locked out of returning for some secrets and the maze feels like busywork without really adding to the worldbuilding) I ended up liking this one overall.  Chalk it up to the dopamine jolt from discovering secrets I suppose, the rewarding ones at least.  The setting was interesting enough to sustain interest in the search.  Bloodfalls obscuring monster movement make their debut here; though thankfully, hitscanners are not used in those situations, a welcome piece of restraint (chaingunners hiding behind them would be evil)  Finding SSG helped keep my experience from getting bogged down by beefy monsters, the secret(s) hiding them were thankfully not hard to uncover.  I grabbed a Rapid Fire upgrade for it as soon as the mod would offer it since speeding up the firing rate helps with dispatching opposition.  Earned an upgrade for the chaingun too and I opted for the lightning upgrade as slowing enemy actions synergizes with a gun I use for stunlocking.

Edited October 7, 2023 by Crusader No Regret

[Celestin]

MAP06: The Abyss

 

The starting room is interesting, as it allows you to pick up your loadout: shotgun and armor, SSG and chaingun, rocket launcher with ammo or the white skull key. "Choose wisely". I went with the key, figuring out I'd get armed along the way. The hitscanner party that followed was a healthy challenge with only a pistol and scavenged shotgun. However, I found a pair of secrets here, both containing white doors that held the weapons. I didn't regret choosing the key, as it allowed me to skip an annoying crusher hallway. I guess a concept of an instant versus delayed reward is an interesting one to implement, though in the end, I wish Kain commited to it fully.

 

The Abyss finally presents you with some setpiece fights between corridor clearing, especially the large area you visit at the end. At first it's a horde of chaingunners that you can distract with a partial invisibility, but then you teleport to a copy of this place with arachnotrons. Still, the map feels sparsely populated, which I think is my biggest issue with this wad so far. Like, don't get me wrong, I'm not that big into slaughter or challenge maps, but it makes fights here feel dull.

 

It's an improvement over the previous maps, I'll give it that, but The Abyss is still a very rough map, especially when it comes to combat.

 

14 hours ago, General Roasterock said:

Beyond that, the homogeny drawback of dedication to the episode theme combined with the simple room ideas is starting to take hold. If you dropped me in one of the marble crypts filled with blood and asked me to determine which map it came from, I am not entirely confident that I could.

I have the same issue. I've played MAP06 3 days ago and wrote the above paragraphs right after I finished it (I prefer to have a few write-ups done in advance for a variety of reasons and just paste them here on an appropriate day). With Sign of Torment, I realised I have no mental image of what the maps I've played just a couple of days ago were. I've been posting here since February and it's the first time this has happened to me. Usually I can just take a look at the map's title and I can recognise something. Like a visual motif, setpiece fight or some frustrating bit. Here? Barely anything.

[LadyMistDragon]

Map 06: The Abyss

 

(I had to pistol-start this one when it was found original recording for this map was paused permanently. Not a big deal in this map however. Anyway)

 

 

The best map so far! Mostly, it's just an extension of the red void visual tropes displayed in the wad thus far, with the addition of some wooden indoor areas that almost suggest something equivalent to a port at one point. Not important though. The opening room is a little stiff in opposition though and one done much worst on our first run-through. Speaking of, we did get the key here since we had been playing continous but it basically just unlocks a small room with rockets in it. In this map though, the more rockets the better. Heck, maybe the rocket launcher path would be not half-bad, though not in the opening ambush. 

 

Anyways, we're eventually desposited into a large circular courtyard like one might see in other wads, The Final Gathering from 1994 being possibly one of the first like this. Although no one would blame you if you don't think we'll ever descend here. But in either case, there are several side doors including one we'd skipped in the first playthrough containing a red keycard and some extra flavor text. Either that or the red skull key, located in a dark and rather obscure maze thanks to the leading door can be found without bothering with the other. No matter, we then head down some stairs, then down some more stairs than a pair of powerups that's quite useful against a mass of....Chaingunners! What happened to cause this?? Well, surviving should be possible though we did a worst job than our first run-through. Then the switch here is off to the side and thusly not originally spotted until everything was dead. However, watching the pile of white void lower to reveal what seems to be a power station was very nice to witness! Although the Arachnotrons here might cause more trouble, and the fact they start between the light columns might make rocketing difficult. No matter, teleporting out of here into what presumably is the same landscape at a different point of time leads to rockets, an Invulnerbility Sphere, and Arachnotrons! Clear out enough before the power runs out and there should be enough room to circle-strafe the rest, though we did worst.

 

After this, we climb, are again in the same location, but with different doors. One leads to some more dreary island-hopping that was quite disorienting initally and we were thusly hurt quite badly in, then the other one we enter is the exit, requiring the black skull key! I do have to wonder if this was some kind of purposeful reprisal probably based in the sudden change of the landscape in the center from void to blood. At the end, we finally appear to have entered reality again, but trust that it won't be for much longer.

 

Cool! The central areas were the best combat seen so far and the optional exploring adds a lot without necessarily holding the map back!

 

 

 

Edited October 6, 2023 by LadyMistDragon

[NecrumWarrior]

As much as I really dig this, I have too much going on this month to keep up. I certainly will want to come back to this one some time, but for now this is me dropping out.

[Pechudin]

MAP07: Forever (UV, PS, No-Save)
Gotta say, this map's atmosphere is greatly improved by great music choice. The driving, somewhat monotonous song compliments the gameplay which is also kind of monotonous, but in a strangely good way? Like, it is clearing rooms but in-world it feels like you are on a mission - this is what I imagine Doomguy's life would be in Hell, if he decided to stay - rip and tear ... FOREVER (*title drop*).

I like the more open spaces in the map, like the great lake of lava with the islands, each with a group of monsters that spawn once a line is crossed. it's VERY rough, and it feels like 94' but also ... I again kinda like it. Like, what surprises me time and time again is how the wad goes against a lot of "common sense" things that we take for granted today - less backtracking, less door-to-door combat, but it somehow can work? Perhaps that's only because I recontextualized what otherwise would be "less optimal mapping" (according to modern sensibilities) into lore.
Perhaps it's the music. Damn good music.

Some more on combat - in places it's grindy - like dropping Demon packs with the SSG, and the dark room got kind of repetitive, but the ample supply of rockets really cuts down on tedium. A good move. Count yourself lucky, because on the initial round of testing a lot of Kain's maps had ONLY the SSG - no RL. Now THAT was grindy. Archviles are used as well, but enough cover is given.

The best part of the map is the large upside-down tornado of blood, perhaps a portal or an infernal machine? Also, the black void hiding teleporters - now it's clear, the Entity is definitely helping us. Perhaps we are going through a trial, or training. If so, for what? At any rate, it wants us to help it get rid of the demons.

Verdict - a good map. Very rough in places, but functional, but also the architecture is nice in places, like the marble building with the U-shaped courtyard. An enigmatic machine at the end that sucks you in, and grants the black key. Also, transparent doors? Don't know why they are here but I'll take it.

Oh and "we caused this". Not sure what "this" is. The dead people at the start? The machine at the end? The sky on the floor? The "found footage" speaks of "black fog" appearing and then demons killing the survivors. If the black fog is the same thing as the Entity, and it is at the very least guiding us (if not helping), then what does that mean for our Marine?

 

Actually nice architecture.

[espilka]

MAP07 Forever - K: 100% / S: 100% (HMP, continuous)

Tally - Deaths: 11 / Secrets missed: 10

 

Ramping everything up and compounding the features introduced in earlier maps.  And of course, adding the Arch-Vile into the enemy repertoire on HMP at least.  The most striking and my favourite area is the maze drenched in blood, giving an almost surreal effect wandering through with half-seen enemies appearing behind corners and from distance.  The central hub area is an infernal grotto floating in the void, a fine example of what can be crafted with stock decorations.  Last i'll mention the very large area of islands surrounded by lava, with enemies spawning on each, between which bridges need to be raised - as this serves as a further elaboration of feature encountered before.  Islands with spawning enemies between which must be travelled by various means often through different routes are one major feature all throughout the set.  How every feature not only builds up and increases in complexity one map at a time but also is used as full-fledged and working design element in its simpler phase is i think interesting to notice - on my blind run i was far too inexperienced to notice this at least at the depth at which it is done.

 

Yeah, nothing new to hear in my assessment - another brilliant map for me, and it seems i think exactly the things that most participants dislike are what makes this set brilliant.  So it goes sometimes ;)  It seems consensus is that this represents beginner mapping, but if that is so, my assessment then opposite: i'd welcome more maps from brilliant beginners who refuse to learn to please everyone by streamlining everything, following agreed conventions, and smoothing out the rough edges so as not to offend or annoy the majority.  But that's just me, obviously the mileage of majority varies ;)

[_goofyguy]

MAP06 - The Abyss
(Ultra-Violence, Continuous)

The choice of either a rocket launcher, SSG and chaingun or white skull at the beginning was rather interesting. Allowing the player to choose how they want to take the level is honestly something I feel isnt used enough. I picked the SSG and chaingun for RAW FIREPOWER and by god I needed it. A massive coliseum stuffed with chaingunners leads you into another massive coliseum stuffed with arachnotrons. Circling around a plasma laser of death that incinerated everything in its path to an absolute BANGER of a music track felt incredible. The combat is even better than last time, and theres no shortage of health packs either. The only thing I can say is going through the teleporter in the first bowl of "Oops! All Chaingunners" means you cannot go back, which was a bit annoying since I know I missed some things there.
All in all, my new favorite level. The best part is I don't even know what the white skull was used for.

Edited October 7, 2023 by _goofyguy
accidentally posted before i finished whoops.

[Catpho]

Probably gonna skip episode 1. The more I play it, the more it's becoming repetitive as Kain frequently uses variations on the same ideas, fitted with a lot of dead time between keys, flat 1994 visuals, and very inconsequential combat. MAP08 seems to be the nadir of this, as I'm not convinced that the repopulating hub is compelling enough in encounter ideas to justify walking around over and over, and the distance in progression is great, to get from one door to another. There's probably little reason for Ep1 to be 11 maps other than a learning experience for the author, which is encouraged for mapping but kinda a chore to play years later, heh. I still love the aesthetic idea of the wad though, and I would still be interested to see where this author goes next even in this rough form.

Holding out hope for the rest of the wad to be less flawed; I'll return when I find a level I like.

Edited October 7, 2023 by Catpho

[General Roasterock]

Map 07: Forever

 

  I’ve held back on calling anything I don’t like terrible in the past year against my knee jerk because I want to do a lot better at seeing potential, and a lot of these maps are definitely pushing their way into significant and providing good groundwork for a future career. This is terrible. My patience for the negatives has run out, and the usual positives are entirely absent. 

  The only discernible trait carried over from Dead Simple is the copy pasted monotony. Both of the key challenges are groupings of the same room reshuffled to not be identical. The White Skull side was more tolerable due to it having some challenge with how the incredibly dark occult temple room keeps refilling, and I liked the atmosphere it had going for it. That all went out the window when I got to the blood maze. The whole thing is a single texture on a single flat with a single light level, chopped up into growths and scattered randomly around. No, I don’t think fighting a Baron by itself inside of a tumor is good, Hell Revealed had already figured that one out for the most part. 

  The Red Skull half is worse. The entire lava cauldron part should’ve been cut. Having to run across an excessively long bridge to hit a switch, go back to another excessively long bridge to hit another switch, only to then have to go back across the first bridge to reach another excessively long bridge is something I would make to fuck with people. The ambushes lack the confidence of the pervious entries, putting a quarry between you and the Chaingunners that pop up on one of the islands. What’s my reward for doing this? Doing the blood maze again, except this time it’s in the dark. Nonsense.

  I was fully feeling the momentum of the opener, but compared to the rest of the map it looks like it belongs in an entirely different level. I lean forward for every Arch-Vile because they’re so infrequent that they mean something, but they go MIA after the doors to the individual halves until the very end of the level. It’s also a complete waste of the Dead Simple trigger potential, something I imagined a wad so focused on technical aspects would appreciate. Even the usual teleporting shenanigans are at a minimum here, and I can’t believe I’m missing them. I appreciate Forever for giving me the ability to identify a misfire in this style, as I was worried that incidental just wasn’t my thing. That’s clearly not the case, I’m still here.

 

11 hours ago, Catpho said:

Probably gonna skip episode 1. The more I play it, the more it's becoming repetitive as Kain frequently uses variations on the same ideas, fitted with a lot of dead time between keys, flat 1994 visuals, and very inconsequential combat.

I think you ultimately made the right call, but I would consider giving Map 11 a shot if you want to believe there's life in the remnants of the combat for this piece. 

[Celestin]

MAP07: Forever

 

Kain is slowly but surely improving the combat and creating encounters that are getting more distinct and memorable. This is an issue I've always had with maps centered on incidental combat: you might have fun playing them, but in the end, they often end up being forgettable. 

 

So, Forever has some fights that stick with you. My favourite is a dark room, which repopulate with new monsters every time you enter it. It's a tense encounter, where you are running around, firing blindly and praying you hit something and trying not to bump into an enemy. The first phase, against a group of pinkies, is the one I enjoyed the most, as it's rather cramped early on. In a wad that, so far, gave you a lot of space to move around, it's a breath of fresh air.

 

What I like less is the part where you are in a lake of lava and have to move back and forth, creating bridges and taking out small groups of monsters. Or yet another section that puts a red overlay on your vision and have you traverse some bloody caves. Still, even if I didn't enjoy those parts, I still think it's something that stands out from the rest of the map.