[COMMUNITY PROJECT] (MUSICIANS NEEDED) Amalgoom, Combining Doom 1 and 2

[Kasgen]

31 minutes ago, SpaceCat_2001 said:

this is very fun and looks great, but you seriously didnt use special feature of map7? And i thought we cant put monsters that are not present in both maps

I didn't have any good ideas for it and I didn't want to shoehorn it in

[Logamuffin]

22 minutes ago, jo2ukegappy said:

 

That's a really interesting opinion and one I haven't heard very often. Would you mind explaining? Also, how do you plan to implement the hand into all of this? 

I love Slough of Despair because of it's exploratory spirit. The little nooks and crannies in the main part of the hand give you ammo and goodies while giving a sense of discovery, especially with the secrets. The arrow automap secret is one of the first secrets I remember really sticking with me. I also like it because it's non-linear and there's lots of extra stuff to do. Like you can get the blue key and just leave if you know where to go, but you can also explore the other branches of the hand and find all the secrets which I find really fun.

 

Also it's aesthetics are fantastic, it's definitely the best looking and consistent Sandy Petersen map. Some ppl give it grief for it's overuse of lost souls and close quarters pinkys but I don't find it to be that much of an issue because of how open-ended the map is meaning there's lots of escape routes and resources you can get to deal with them. I really don't understand why people don't like it.

 

I'm thinking about keeping the hand by having the marble face elevators like in catacombs lead to each "finger". I'd have to think about how else I can implement catacomb's aesthetic (aside from sadistic chaingunner placement :P) , since it's not my favorite doom 2 map but I'll try and figure out what I can do.

[DankMetal]

Oh you're one of my kind @Logamuffin, i love Sand(y)box levels, and it's something i always try to imitate in my own maps.

I didn't know people hated this level until recently, and honestly, i don't understand the hate either.

[SpaceCat_2001]

1 hour ago, Logamuffin said:

I love Slough of Despair because of it's exploratory spirit. The little nooks and crannies in the main part of the hand give you ammo and goodies while giving a sense of discovery, especially with the secrets. The arrow automap secret is one of the first secrets I remember really sticking with me. I also like it because it's non-linear and there's lots of extra stuff to do. Like you can get the blue key and just leave if you know where to go, but you can also explore the other branches of the hand and find all the secrets which I find really fun.

 

Also it's aesthetics are fantastic, it's definitely the best looking and consistent Sandy Petersen map. Some ppl give it grief for it's overuse of lost souls and close quarters pinkys but I don't find it to be that much of an issue because of how open-ended the map is meaning there's lots of escape routes and resources you can get to deal with them. I really don't understand why people don't like it.

 

I'm thinking about keeping the hand by having the marble face elevators like in catacombs lead to each "finger". I'd have to think about how else I can implement catacomb's aesthetic (aside from sadistic chaingunner placement :P) , since it's not my favorite doom 2 map but I'll try and figure out what I can do.

What about my idea of layout?

[Johnny Cruelty]

1 hour ago, SpaceCat_2001 said:

What about my idea of layout?

what was your idea again?

[PinkKittyRose]

Had some time to work today so got started on the map. Have some WIP screenshots.

 

Spoiler

 

[SpaceCat_2001]

4 hours ago, SpaceCat_2001 said:

@Logamuffin is clearly Okuyasu in disguise, of course he will take map that features Za Hando

  Reveal hidden contents

And you can make the map in the form of this hand for extra funnies

 

@Johnny Cruelty @Logamuffin this funny thing in the spoiler

Edited October 9, 2023 by SpaceCat_2001

[Johnny Cruelty]

48 minutes ago, PinkKittyRose said:

Had some time to work today so got started on the map. Have some WIP screenshots.

 

  Hide contents

 

holy crap this looks amazing

[DankMetal]

On 10/8/2023 at 5:38 AM, DankMetal said:

Okay, first version of my map, Hometown. It doesn't look like a town nor a home, honestly, i would change his name to "Refinery District" or something like that. I cannot believe i made a fairly big map in very little time, i was expecting to take longer.

I've showed some screenshots before, and it hasn't changed that much.

Hope you like it.

UPDATED VERSION HERE: SANDY.zip

 

I updated my map, now with more ammo, fixed a softlock behind the Baron Throne (tm), and added a chainsaw somewhere, along with minor fixes and new decoration.

Something i forgot to mention in my original post, i recommend playing it with coop spawns (you can write the parameter -solo-net or -coop-spawns depending on your source port). Nothing too special about it, there's more monsters, and one of them changes the complete loop of the level.

[DankMetal]

Hey @Kasgeni played your map through PrBoom+ with -complevel 9, and OH man where do i start...

Look i don't like when people criticize the maps of others in the most harsh way unimaginable, cuz it happened to me and, sure, they make good points, but it makes you feel a little bad, so i'm gonna be the most objective as i can. Enough rambling, here's what i liked about your map:

Spoiler

• The layout is so fucking good man, really well done, it reminds me of no rest for the living and some tnt maps. And i'm not talking only about the decorations and all of that, the level flows really well, i never felt lost in any instance, unlike the original e1m7.
• The combat was fun, not perfect tho (i'm going to get that later). I don't any much to say, i'm not a doom expert.
• This is not a bad thing, but i would appreciate if you added more secrets, the original e1m7 had a chockful of them.
• No bugs found, everything is fine with that aspect

And now, some priblems that your map have:

Spoiler

• I wanted to record a demo, but i can't get out of the first room without tiping IDCLIP or turning on a setting specific to this cases in prboom +. In what source port did you tested your map? I suppose it was GzDoom, cuz that happened to me when i started mapping. You have to put a tag on the sector if you want the floor (or a lift) to move.
• The textures. Yeah, i praised the layout and all of that, but it needs polishing. There's a ton of misaligned textures that makes the map look messy.
• I've found this slime trail, they are easy to fix, just add a vertex nearby and it will dissappear.

• I recommend you to stick to the original monster roster present in both maps to have a consistent difficulty through this community project. I do not remember seeing an archivile or a hell knight in any of the maps in the 7th slot! And why the hell it's there a baron guarding a yellow key!? His introduction was in map 8 in both games!. (This is a dramatization, it's not a big deal btw). Do not take this as valid criticism, tho, i didn't see @Johnny Crueltycomplaining about this, so i think it's okay?
• Your map would really beneficiate with more darker sectors, like the original e1m7. Your map already looks cool, play with lighting and it will look even better!.
• And last but not least (this is just a nitpick do not take this into consideration) why is this map in slot 1? I wanted to hear D_SHAWN without using IDMUS07!.

Overall it's a good map, with some missteps here and there, but really enjoyable. And i think you are capable of doing it even better!

If you fix the error at the start of the map where i can't get out maybe i could try to record a demo again.

[DoomGappy]

12 hours ago, Logamuffin said:

I love Slough of Despair because of it's exploratory spirit. The little nooks and crannies in the main part of the hand give you ammo and goodies while giving a sense of discovery, especially with the secrets. The arrow automap secret is one of the first secrets I remember really sticking with me. I also like it because it's non-linear and there's lots of extra stuff to do. Like you can get the blue key and just leave if you know where to go, but you can also explore the other branches of the hand and find all the secrets which I find really fun.

 

Also it's aesthetics are fantastic, it's definitely the best looking and consistent Sandy Petersen map. Some ppl give it grief for it's overuse of lost souls and close quarters pinkys but I don't find it to be that much of an issue because of how open-ended the map is meaning there's lots of escape routes and resources you can get to deal with them. I really don't understand why people don't like it.

 

I'm thinking about keeping the hand by having the marble face elevators like in catacombs lead to each "finger". I'd have to think about how else I can implement catacomb's aesthetic (aside from sadistic chaingunner placement :P) , since it's not my favorite doom 2 map but I'll try and figure out what I can do.

 

That would be nice. You should put a ring on the ring finger, Sandy is a married man now. 

 

4 hours ago, DankMetal said:

I updated my map, now with more ammo, fixed a softlock behind the Baron Throne (tm), and added a chainsaw somewhere, along with minor fixes and new decoration.

Something i forgot to mention in my original post, i recommend playing it with coop spawns (you can write the parameter -solo-net or -coop-spawns depending on your source port). Nothing too special about it, there's more monsters, and one of them changes the complete loop of the level.

 

I'll take a look at it when I have the time. Trying to focus on Uni and do Doom stuff on weekends. Can I play it on stream? Not a lot of people watch it, but figured asking permission would be cool. I plan on playing other maps here and posting feedback too so that mappers can see if there's any need for fixes.

[SpaceCat_2001]

I enlarged Mastermind area, fixed some softlocks, the start of the crusher before mastermind is now more apparent. @DankMetal can you play test my map aswell, would love to hear more feedback.

SpaceCat_2001map06_0.3.rar

Edited October 9, 2023 by SpaceCat_2001

[DoomGappy]

1 hour ago, jo2ukegappy said:

 

That would be nice. You should put a ring on the ring finger, Sandy is a married man now. 

 

 

I'll take a look at it when I have the time. Trying to focus on Uni and do Doom stuff on weekends. Can I play it on stream? Not a lot of people watch it, but figured asking permission would be cool. I plan on playing other maps here and posting feedback too so that mappers can see if there's any need for fixes.

 

@Kasgen

 

Yeah, I think I can play a map a day. Here is my playtrough of map 07, with no major issues. As mentioned on the video, I think you should change the Mancubi and Arachnotrons around. Maybe add some more rockets scattered around. Other than that, really great map. 
 

Edit: I didn't notice it while playing, but I think you did use the gimmick now, in retrospect. The last mancubus I killed was in the nukage area and when I came back some doors were open. I didn't notice anything that might be tag 667 for the arachnotrons, though. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Edited October 9, 2023 by jo2ukegappy

[SpaceCat_2001]

Spoiler

@Johnny Cruelty Map10 in the making

[Kasgen]

3 hours ago, jo2ukegappy said:

Edit: I didn't notice it while playing, but I think you did use the gimmick now, in retrospect. The last mancubus I killed was in the nukage area and when I came back some doors were open. I didn't notice anything that might be tag 667 for the arachnotrons, though. Correct me if I'm wrong.

666 and 667 are not used. I didn't use the gimmick because the map doesn't play like the original Dead Simple and thus I can use linedef actions to achieve the same results, and because I didn't have any ideas for novel ways to make use of the special action. Not using tag 666 also allows me to use mancubi throughout the map instead of only up until a 666-tagged door.

[DankMetal]

Sorry if i reply to late to this posts, time zones are a bitch.

7 hours ago, SpaceCat_2001 said:

I enlarged Mastermind area, fixed some softlocks, the start of the crusher before mastermind is now more apparent. @DankMetal can you play test my map aswell, would love to hear more feedback.

SpaceCat_2001map06_0.3.rar

Absolutely!

7 hours ago, jo2ukegappy said:

 

I'll take a look at it when I have the time. Trying to focus on Uni and do Doom stuff on weekends. Can I play it on stream? Not a lot of people watch it, but figured asking permission would be cool. I plan on playing other maps here and posting feedback too so that mappers can see if there's any need for fixes.

Of course. I wouldn't be able to watch it live, tho, so please conserve the live stream video.

Edited October 9, 2023 by DankMetal

[Max-ko-khan]

This seems pretty interesting, can i take MAP17?

[SpaceCat_2001]

Spoiler

@Johnny Cruelty some new screenies of MAP10

[Johnny Cruelty]

35 minutes ago, Max-ko-khan said:

This seems pretty interesting, can i take MAP17?

Yeah sure

[Johnny Cruelty]

23 minutes ago, SpaceCat_2001 said:

  Hide contents

@Johnny Cruelty some new screenies of MAP10

Groovy keep it up!

[Kasgen]

I could do map 19, since it seems to be the only normal map that's yet to be claimed.

 

 

Updated map 07. I removed the odd monsters, did some texture work, fixed the line actions that were broken in prboom and changed some of the encounters. It's also actually in the 07 slot now.

 

Edited October 9, 2023 by Kasgen
map update

[DoomGappy]

4 hours ago, Kasgen said:

666 and 667 are not used. I didn't use the gimmick because the map doesn't play like the original Dead Simple and thus I can use linedef actions to achieve the same results, and because I didn't have any ideas for novel ways to make use of the special action. Not using tag 666 also allows me to use mancubi throughout the map instead of only up until a 666-tagged door.

 

So it was an intentional break from the conventions. I see. It was a fun map, hope my video served for finding stuff to be fixed. Also, where was the second secret?

[DoomGappy]

3 hours ago, DankMetal said:

Sorry if i reply to late to this posts, time zones are a bitch.

Absolutely!

Of course. I wouldn't be able to watch it live, tho, so please conserve the live stream video.

 

I'll send you a link to the video after I stream it. 

[Kasgen]

7 minutes ago, jo2ukegappy said:

 

So it was an intentional break from the conventions. I see. It was a fun map, hope my video served for finding stuff to be fixed. Also, where was the second secret?

One of the computer monitors in the pit near the blue keycard can be lowered.

[DankMetal]

Okay, so i played map 1, 2, 6 and 7, here's my thoughs:

Spoiler

@Johnny Cruelty your map 1 replacement is really good, i loved that little nod to the beta version of entryway. The combat it's a little unforgiving when you don't have the chainsaw, but aside from that it's enjoyable.

The texturing is the worst aspect of the level i think The floor textures changes abruptly, and it looks ugly imo. Same with the wall textures.

I don't know if you have noticed, but in the official levels the floor texture only changes when the floor height change. And if you want to change wall textures you have to put a metal texture, a door or some pillar to divide it. Always take a look at the original maps and you will see some of this principles.

Here's the demo file: DEMOEPICO01.zip

 

I didn't recorded a demo for map 2, sorry! I didn't have much time to play. Maybe i can record one tomorrow. The only critique i have (aside from the same texture thing from your previous map) it's that you can get softlocked in that brick house area, there's a door that can only be opened by a monster for some reason, and if you kill all of them, well...

 

@SpaceCat_2001I couldn't complete the map thanks to those lifts... again. It's the same problem that map 7 had, so i'm not gonna expand upon it. And OH MY GOD IT'S ALL SLIME TRAILS, that's why you test your map on the intended sourceport.

Bugs aside, i don't have anything else to say, the map looks impresive and i love that secret with that abandoned e1m6 room (that secret inspired me to write that comment with that story inspired by samurai Jack btw.)

Here's this demo where i died like a thousand times:DEMOEPICO00601.zip

 

@Kasgennot goona extend to much on this. I appreciate that you've taken the effort to change every monster thay didn't appear in neither of both original levels. There's a softlock in the lite amplification goggles secret btw, if you don't escape from that room in time, the lift would raise up blocking your path.

Here's the demo file: DEMOEPICO0702.zip

All of this demos were recorded on PrBoom + with -complevel 9.

If you don't know how to play demos on PrBoom +, please download PrBoom + launcher 0.1.2, it makes the work of recording AND playing demos so much easier, and it's very easy to set up!

Edited October 10, 2023 by DankMetal

[SpaceCat_2001]

5 minutes ago, DankMetal said:

Okay, so i played map 1, 2, 6 and 7, here's my thoughs:

  Hide contents

@Johnny Cruelty your map 1 replacement is really good, i loved that little nod to the beta version of entryway. The combat it's a little unforgiving when you don't have the chainsaw, but aside from that it's enjoyable.

The texturing is the worst aspect of the level i think The floor textures changes abruptly, and it looks ugly imo. Same with the wall textures.

I don't know if you have noticed, but in the official levels the floor texture only changes when the floor height change. And if you want to change wall textures you have to put a metal texture, a door or some pillar to divide it. Always take a look at the original maps and you will see some of this principles.

Here's the demo file: DEMOEPICO01.zip

I didn't recorded a demo for map 2, sorry! I didn't have much time to play. Maybe i can record one tomorrow. The only critique i have it's that you can get softlocked in that brick house area, there's a door that can only be opened by a monster for some reason, and if you kill all of them, well...

@SpaceCat_2001I couldn't complete the map thanks to those lifts... again. It's the same problem that map 7 had, so i'm not gonna expand upon it. And OH MY GOD IT'S ALL SLIME TRAILS, that's why you test your map on the intended sourceport.

Bugs aside, i don't have anything else to say, the map looks impresive and i love that secret with that abandoned e1m6 room (that secret inspired me to write that comment with that story inspired by samurai Jack btw.)

Here's this demo where i died like a thousand times:DEMOEPICO00601.zip

 

@Kasgennot goona extend to much on this. I appreciate that you've taken the effort to change every monster thay didn't appear in neither of both original levels. There's a softlock in the lite amplification goggles secret btw, if you don't escape from that room in time, the lift would raise up blocking your path.

Here's the demo file: DEMOEPICO0702.zip

All pf this demos were rcorded on prboom + with -complevel 9

If you don't know how to play demos on PrBoom +, please download PrBoom + launcher 0.1.2, it makes the work of recording demos and playing wads so much easier, and it's very easy to set up!

When I get back home I will test the map on PrBoom and fix funny bugs

Edited October 10, 2023 by SpaceCat_2001

[Johnny Cruelty]

3 hours ago, DankMetal said:

Okay, so i played map 1, 2, 6 and 7, here's my thoughs:

  Hide contents

@Johnny Cruelty your map 1 replacement is really good, i loved that little nod to the beta version of entryway. The combat it's a little unforgiving when you don't have the chainsaw, but aside from that it's enjoyable.

The texturing is the worst aspect of the level i think The floor textures changes abruptly, and it looks ugly imo. Same with the wall textures.

I don't know if you have noticed, but in the official levels the floor texture only changes when the floor height change. And if you want to change wall textures you have to put a metal texture, a door or some pillar to divide it. Always take a look at the original maps and you will see some of this principles.

Here's the demo file: DEMOEPICO01.zip

 

I didn't recorded a demo for map 2, sorry! I didn't have much time to play. Maybe i can record one tomorrow. The only critique i have (aside from the same texture thing from your previous map) it's that you can get softlocked in that brick house area, there's a door that can only be opened by a monster for some reason, and if you kill all of them, well...

 

@SpaceCat_2001I couldn't complete the map thanks to those lifts... again. It's the same problem that map 7 had, so i'm not gonna expand upon it. And OH MY GOD IT'S ALL SLIME TRAILS, that's why you test your map on the intended sourceport.

Bugs aside, i don't have anything else to say, the map looks impresive and i love that secret with that abandoned e1m6 room (that secret inspired me to write that comment with that story inspired by samurai Jack btw.)

Here's this demo where i died like a thousand times:DEMOEPICO00601.zip

 

@Kasgennot goona extend to much on this. I appreciate that you've taken the effort to change every monster thay didn't appear in neither of both original levels. There's a softlock in the lite amplification goggles secret btw, if you don't escape from that room in time, the lift would raise up blocking your path.

Here's the demo file: DEMOEPICO0702.zip

All of this demos were recorded on PrBoom + with -complevel 9.

If you don't know how to play demos on PrBoom +, please download PrBoom + launcher 0.1.2, it makes the work of recording AND playing demos so much easier, and it's very easy to set up!

Thanks dude, I'll try to fix that some time

 

Been busy with real life and personal issues

[SpaceCat_2001]

SpaceCat_2001map06_0.4.rar

@DankMetal I fixed a lot of stuff, rebuilded nodes, so there shouldnt be any slimes as far as i tested, all of elevators are fixed, some items were in only hard, that was fixed. From now on i will only test in PrBoom+. And ive seen the demo and i was cringing at myself for everything i fucked up lol. You could try replaying the map, if you want.

Edited October 10, 2023 by SpaceCat_2001

[DankMetal]

9 minutes ago, SpaceCat_2001 said:

SpaceCat_2001map06_0.4.rar

@DankMetal I fixed a lot of stuff, rebuilded nodes, so there shouldnt be any slimes as far as i tested, all of elevators are fixed, some items were in only hard, that was fixed. From now on i will only test in PrBoom+. And ive seen the demo and i was cringing at myself for everything i fucked up lol. You could try replaying the map, if you want.

Perfect, i'm gonna replay it soon!

... Wait, the plasma gun not being there in HMP wasn't intentional?

[SpaceCat_2001]

3 minutes ago, DankMetal said:

Perfect, i'm gonna replay it soon!

... Wait, the plasma gun not being there in HMP wasn't intentional?

Yeah I made plasmagun UV only by a mistake. If there are other items that have the same mistake and I overlooked them, let me know. 

Edited October 10, 2023 by SpaceCat_2001