[COMMUNITY PROJECT] (MUSICIANS NEEDED) Amalgoom, Combining Doom 1 and 2

[Rus]

7 minutes ago, Johnny Cruelty said:

I think @tamara mochaccina already did that... I think?

Oh ok. I was going by the spreadsheet, it was blank there until the edit just now. That said, I'm perusing the old composition forum, and a bit of a cluster there, EagerBeaver claimed that @HEXWALKER was working on 29. But I see no evidence of that. I don't see tamara claiming 29 either. Let me know.

 

[Johnny Cruelty]

Just now, Rus said:

Oh ok. I was going by the spreadsheet, it was blank there until the edit just now. That said, I'm perusing the old composition forum, and a bit of a cluster there, EagerBeaver claimed that @HEXWALKER was working on 29. But I see no evidence of that. I don't see tamara claiming 29 either. Let me know.

 

I think hexwalker is MAKING the map

 

but yeah tammy alredy did map29

[Rus]

13 minutes ago, Johnny Cruelty said:

I think hexwalker is MAKING the map

 

but yeah tammy alredy did map29

Alrighty, how about map 25 - Sleepy Prey?

[DankMetal]

26 minutes ago, Rus said:

Alrighty, how about map 25 - Sleepy Prey?

Sure, no one has claimed that song, you can go for it

And don't check the old composers thread, that topic is now heavily dated.

Edit: i forgot to mention, Tamara requested map 29's song on our discord server, you can go there to see more frequent updates on our maps and all that stuff.

I do admit that it was my fault for not updating the spreadsheet in time, so i'm sorry for that blunder.

Edited November 19, 2023 by DankMetal
Forgor

[DoomGappy]

16 hours ago, PinkKittyRose said:

Decided to give this shot on DSDA with complevel 9 and ran into a couple issues, some bugs, some that are likely conflicts of personal taste, but had a lot of fun with this one! Could clearly see the influences of both maps and a fair amount of original flair was added to this one, too. Gonna sort my thoughts into spoilers to avoid getting too Wall-o-Texty.

Hey, @PinkKittyRose, thanks for the extensive feedback! I'll spoiler my answers too and go bit bit bit.

 

Spoiler

- The idea, especially with E2M1 parts, was to tell a story! We wanted the player to feel like he was returning to a place that he already had visited a long time ago. The Circle part was mostly used to interconnect these areas, but also give way to new ideas. It was a very fun process. @The Royal We can tell you more about how or why we did it like that, I suspect he has more to say about this than I do.
- The traps were our idea of a "Sandy Petersen moment". We scattered them around the place, and during the creation of the map we would send each other versions with new traps and not tell what we'd changed, just to see how they would react. It was a very, very fun  thing to do!
- Thanks for secret hunting! We tried not to go overboard and make them too out of the player's way. All of them connect nicely with the flow of the map.
- The shuttle is a reference to Duke Nukem E2M1. Again, @The Royal We's idea. He'll have more to say about the matter.
- I wanted to do the Caco forest, but it felt like the map would become too drawn out. By this point, the gameplay loop was already complete and it felt like going overboard. There are remnants of it, though, with the face in the archvile area and the little forests before the final return to the loop after the teleporter in the last archvile fight. 

Now for bugs and other thingies.
- The first door is not a tagged secret. It's an unofficial one. 
- Fixed the damaging bricks. Thanks!
- There is a way to avoid most of the damage of the chaingunners, but nobody found it yet. I've made this less obscure, but we'll also remove some of them because this part is actually really hard, even for the map creators. 
- Fixed texture misalignment in the rocket secrets! There was also a HOM ther, which has also been fixed.

- Removed the shootable switch in favor of a more traditional one. I wanted the players to scramble a little, but turns out it is too mean. It's not a mechanic that has been introduced elsewhere so it feels weird to have it appear in the middle of a trap.

- Those chaingunners in the revenant area are hard, but I don't think they're unfair. They're shotgunners in medium and hard, if I'm not mistaken. This area turned out to be the hardest in the map, in our opinion.
- Will check the switch. Weird because we didn't add any switches and such. 

- That invuln is not so secret, it's fairly obvious. It's there for the last circle battle full of rocketing goodness. I don't know if we will tag it.

- I really thought I had fixed that softblock, but I'll check it. I'll probably leave a lift action there, just to be sure. 
- Will check the closets one more time. Edit: Fixed the missing teleporter. 

- Added health in the circle. Cell ammo starvation is @The Royal We's idea to make the plasma rifle and BFG very important guns. Although It's not my favorite design philosophy in general, I think it works fairly well in this map. I felt pain whenever I misfired a plasma shot.

- Yet again, Darkness is my friend's middle name. We'll consider adding a bit more of light, but we'll still have to play in other settings. Our last playthroughs have been in software mode, so we'll see.
- It is a scramble! The idea was to cause a reaction in the player to try to get the bfg, but we're finding that most people just kill the archvile first with the weapons they have. Still, I think it's cool. Some ideas just don't pan out as we expect them to. 

 

Thank you very very much for writing all that. Feedback like this is really what can help us improve our map and make it even more polished. Can't wait to play woof2it!

Edited November 19, 2023 by DoomGappy

[EagerBeaver]

Spoiler

 

Wireframe shot of my E2M5/MAP15 hybrid. Work is still in progress, cuz I have a ton of ideas regarding some parts of the level, but I'm planning to add a cave and open-world section on the right side.

[Johnny Cruelty]

2 minutes ago, EagerBeaver said:

  Hide contents

 

Wireframe shot of my E2M5/MAP15 hybrid. Work is still in progress, cuz I have a ton of ideas regarding some parts of the level, but I'm planning to add a cave and open-world section on the right side.

say will the map be big and non linear like map15? (also funnily enough, both e2m5 and map15 both had secret exits, so I guess you could combine the secret exit rooms)

[DoomGappy]

Ok, Folks! We have a little announcement to make.

 

We are creating the intermission screens, and we decided to make a small diorama of the maps in UDB and then screenshot it and edit it. Here is what it looks so far with the two first maps in it:

 

 

And here is the layout of the order of the maps:

 

 

So far, we've only started working on Episode 1. We wanted to be sure that it can look good before we do the other episodes. If you like this idea and want to represent the creative view you have of your map on the intermission screen, we ask you to send us a version of the map within the following specifications

• Maximum size - 600x600 pixels
• Floor height - 0 pixels
• Ceiling height - 1600 pixels
• max height of the building should be 128 pixels. If your maps have really tall buildings we may make an exception.
• No extra textures besides doom2 and Ultimate Doom graphics (same patch used for the maps)
• Not very detailed, just enough to give the idea of the map's layout
• If you want your map to be placed on a specific type of terrain, like moss, grass, stone, etc, tell us and we'll try to accomodate those ideas the best we can. 

If you don't want to make a little miniature of your map, we'll make it ourselves, but it would be nice to have each mapper's creative intention on display. This intermission screen will not be animated like Doom's, it will be static.

Edited November 19, 2023 by DoomGappy

[Johnny Cruelty]

4 minutes ago, DoomGappy said:

Ok, Folks! We have a little announcement to make.

 

We are creating the intermission screens, and we decided to make a small diorama of the maps in UDB and then screenshot it and edit it. Here is what it looks so far with the two first maps in it:

 

 

And here is the layout of the order of the maps:

 

 

So far, we've only started working on Episode 1. We wanted to be sure that it can look good before we do the other episodes. If you like this idea and want to represent the creative view you have of your map on the intermission screen, we ask you to send us a version of the map within the following specifications

• Maximum size - 600x600 pixels
• Floor height - 0 pixels
• Ceiling height - 1600 pixels
• No extra textures besides doom2 and Ultimate Doom graphics (same patch used for the maps)
• Not very detailed, just enough to give the idea of the map's layout

If you don't want to make a little miniature of your map, we'll make it ourselves, but it would be nice to have each mapper's creative intention on display. This intermission screen will not be animated like Doom's, it will be static.

@SpaceCat_2001 

 @Rorix

 @RileyXY1

 @EagerBeaver

@Kasgen

@DankMetal

@cutman

 

[DoomGappy]

31 minutes ago, EagerBeaver said:

  Hide contents

 

Wireframe shot of my E2M5/MAP15 hybrid. Work is still in progress, cuz I have a ton of ideas regarding some parts of the level, but I'm planning to add a cave and open-world section on the right side.

From your first map submission, I'm already excited to play this one. Thanks for the update!

Edited November 19, 2023 by DoomGappy

[URROVA]

Hi! Is the MAP30/E3M8 midi slot still unclaimed? If yes i wold make a midi for it.

[Johnny Cruelty]

7 minutes ago, URROVA said:

Hi! Is the MAP30/E3M8 midi slot still unclaimed? If yes i wold make a midi for it.

yeah sure! you're hired

Edited November 19, 2023 by Johnny Cruelty

[Rus]

Just finished Sleepy Prey, or "D_SLEEPY" (Map 25). I struggled a bit trying to find a theme, but then the concept of a sleepy, yet ominous track came to me. Tried to capture the essence of being in a dreamland, and I find the ocarina to be a really hypnotizing spell caster for that. @Johnny Cruelty @DankMetal @DoomGappy

Edited November 20, 2023 by Rus
Added map # for posterity

[Johnny Cruelty]

21 minutes ago, Rus said:

Just finished Sleepy Prey, or "D_SLEEPY" (Map 25). I struggled a bit trying to find a theme, but then the concept of a sleepy, yet ominous track came to me. Tried to capture the essence of being in a dreamland, and I find the ocarina to be a really hypnotizing spell caster for that. @Johnny Cruelty @DankMetal @DoomGappy

I love this, it brings me sad but comforting memories, I'm kinda sleepy so it has that vibe

 

good job

 

[Johnny Cruelty]

25 minutes ago, Rus said:

Just finished Sleepy Prey, or "D_SLEEPY" (Map 25). I struggled a bit trying to find a theme, but then the concept of a sleepy, yet ominous track came to me. Tried to capture the essence of being in a dreamland, and I find the ocarina to be a really hypnotizing spell caster for that. @Johnny Cruelty @DankMetal @DoomGappy

say you wanna do another? we have map06 open

[Rus]

1 hour ago, Johnny Cruelty said:

say you wanna do another? we have map06 open

I'll think about it. Nothing has come to mind yet. I'll let you know.

Edited November 20, 2023 by Rus

[Rus]

Ok, I think I've got a concept. I'll take map06. @Johnny Cruelty

[Heretic926]

6 hours ago, Rus said:

Just finished Sleepy Prey, or "D_SLEEPY" (Map 25). I struggled a bit trying to find a theme, but then the concept of a sleepy, yet ominous track came to me. Tried to capture the essence of being in a dreamland, and I find the ocarina to be a really hypnotizing spell caster for that. @Johnny Cruelty @DankMetal @DoomGappy

Sounds very good! It'll definitely bring more atmosphere to my map.

 

15 hours ago, DoomGappy said:

Ok, Folks! We have a little announcement to make.

 

We are creating the intermission screens, and we decided to make a small diorama of the maps in UDB and then screenshot it and edit it. Here is what it looks so far with the two first maps in it:

 

 

And here is the layout of the order of the maps:

 

 

So far, we've only started working on Episode 1. We wanted to be sure that it can look good before we do the other episodes. If you like this idea and want to represent the creative view you have of your map on the intermission screen, we ask you to send us a version of the map within the following specifications

• Maximum size - 600x600 pixels
• Floor height - 0 pixels
• Ceiling height - 1600 pixels
• max height of the building should be 128 pixels. If your maps have really tall buildings we may make an exception.
• No extra textures besides doom2 and Ultimate Doom graphics (same patch used for the maps)
• Not very detailed, just enough to give the idea of the map's layout
• If you want your map to be placed on a specific type of terrain, like moss, grass, stone, etc, tell us and we'll try to accomodate those ideas the best we can. 

If you don't want to make a little miniature of your map, we'll make it ourselves, but it would be nice to have each mapper's creative intention on display. This intermission screen will not be animated like Doom's, it will be static.

So I guess the idea is to make three different intermission screens for all so-called episodes? I don't mind that since UMAPINFO exists, but I'm accustomed to more traditional "one INTERPIC for the entire megawad".

[DoomGappy]

38 minutes ago, Heretic926 said:

Sounds very good! It'll definitely bring more atmosphere to my map.

 

So I guess the idea is to make three different intermission screens for all so-called episodes? I don't mind that since UMAPINFO exists, but I'm accustomed to more traditional "one INTERPIC for the entire megawad".

Yes! I'll have to learn how to do that in the meanwhile but we're focusing on E1 for now. It's probably still very possible with UMAPINFO, though. 

[DoomGappy]

7 hours ago, Rus said:

Just finished Sleepy Prey, or "D_SLEEPY" (Map 25). I struggled a bit trying to find a theme, but then the concept of a sleepy, yet ominous track came to me. Tried to capture the essence of being in a dreamland, and I find the ocarina to be a really hypnotizing spell caster for that. @Johnny Cruelty @DankMetal @DoomGappy

Damn!!! That's amazing, very chill yet ominous vibe to it! Thanks for contributing!

[GermanPeter]

Updated my Suburbs of the Damned map to add a secret exit for that manor map.

[DoomGappy]

47 minutes ago, GermanPeter said:

Updated my Suburbs of the Damned map to add a secret exit for that manor map.

This way, @Individualised's maps will get more visibility. Thanks, GermanPeter!

[EagerBeaver]

22 hours ago, Johnny Cruelty said:

say will the map be big and non linear like map15?

 

I'll do my best to make the hybrid "exploration-heavy", like the originals were.

 

I've decided that the central part and the left side of the level will represent E2M5 and the right side will represent MAP15.

 

22 hours ago, DoomGappy said:

we decided to make a small diorama of the maps in UDB

 

This looks cute. I'll try to create a mini-version of Checkpoint and upload it later.

[Johnny Cruelty]

14 hours ago, Rus said:

Just finished Sleepy Prey, or "D_SLEEPY" (Map 25). I struggled a bit trying to find a theme, but then the concept of a sleepy, yet ominous track came to me. Tried to capture the essence of being in a dreamland, and I find the ocarina to be a really hypnotizing spell caster for that. @Johnny Cruelty @DankMetal @DoomGappy

also btw, do you wanna do MAP20, Hiding the Archvile? I feel like it could be a upbeat stanky riff fest 

[Rus]

Here's "D_HUNT" for map06. This one's hot hot hot on the drums, feels like Bobby Prince channeled his inner Neil Peart in "On the Hunt", so I gave it the extra spicy drum treatment. In some ways this was a literal collision of the two songs, but just a touch heavier, and at the end I extended the spooky whistle from "In the Dark", as that's always been a favorite element of mine that I felt deserved a bit of extra air time. In between verses we have chill interludes to take a break from getting hammered by the double bass drums, and maybe to take cover from some demons. @Johnny Cruelty @DoomGappy @DankMetal

Edited November 21, 2023 by Rus
@ fussed with something, re-uploaded and added new link

[Rus]

12 hours ago, Johnny Cruelty said:

also btw, do you wanna do MAP20, Hiding the Archvile? I feel like it could be a upbeat stanky riff fest 

I'll put on my thinking hat, I'll let you know if I can commit sometime tomorrow probably. 

 

 

[DoomGappy]

3 hours ago, Rus said:

Here's "D_HUNT" for map06. This one's hot hot hot on the drums, feels like Bobby Prince channeled his inner Neil Peart in "On the Hunt", so I gave it the extra spicy drum treatment. In some ways this was a literal collision of the two songs, but just a touch heavier, and at the end I extended the spooky whistle from "In the Dark", as that's always been a favorite element of mine that I felt deserved a bit of extra air time. In between verses we have chill interludes to take a break from getting hammered by the double bass drums, and maybe to take cover from some demons. @Johnny Cruelty @DoomGappy @DankMetal

That's amazing, man. I still am very impressed about how many cool submissions we've been getting everywhere. Gives me strength each time some new content is added!

 

 

[DoomGappy]

[ANNOUNCEMENT]

 

We're packing a shareware version as mentioned before. We already have an internal file. If you would like to give us feedback, help us hunt for bugs and fix things that are not working, or something of the sort, please DM any of the project managers and we'll hook you up with the latest version for testing. If you find bugs you should provide:

 

Source port: source port used

Source port version: version of the source port 

Patches and fixes used, if any: if you use fixed like sprite fix or brightmaps. Probably won't matter much, but if possible, run without mods for testing.

Bug found and location: what kind of bug it was, and where is it?

Bug screenshots, if possible: attach some screenshots of the bug for easier identification.

 

Thank you all for the hard work!

[DoomGappy]

On 11/19/2023 at 5:56 PM, DoomGappy said:

Ok, Folks! We have a little announcement to make.

 

We are creating the intermission screens, and we decided to make a small diorama of the maps in UDB and then screenshot it and edit it. Here is what it looks so far with the two first maps in it:

 

 

Diarama update with @SpaceCat_2001's map10!

[The Royal We]

On 11/18/2023 at 6:29 PM, PinkKittyRose said:

Decided to give this shot on DSDA with complevel 9 and ran into a couple issues, some bugs, some that are likely conflicts of personal taste, but had a lot of fun with this one! Could clearly see the influences of both maps and a fair amount of original flair was added to this one, too. Gonna sort my thoughts into spoilers to avoid getting too Wall-o-Texty.
 

  Reveal hidden contents

- This map is VERY pretty! There was a clear effort hear to give the whole place a run down look, especially anywhere reference E2M1. I love the eeriness of all the dead Zombiemen laying around, and nice touch adding Clips to a bunch of them. Gives that feeling of "Someone's been through here before..."

- The traps are very good here other than one thing I address later, and give a good jolt of excitement. Some may find the map a bit too tricky, especially for an earlier map like MAP11, but we shall see! I played on UV and maxed the map for reference.

- I found your secrets very fairly hidden. Only had to IDDT for one of them (the Supercharge in the secret within a secret within a secret beyond the secret red key area). Definitely lots to be found by exploring and none of them feel super required to finish the map.

- Gotta love that DoomCute shuttle. Sure, one could argue it is out of place, but the lost base for Episode 2 WAS on a moon...

- All the main events of each map were hit. Except maybe the last little castle area of the original MAP11, but that spot was kinda bad anyways...

 

Possible Issues:

- The starting door that is normally for decoration that leads to a Shotgun now, that is supposed to be marked Secret, yeah?
- The lowest bricks on each side in the Hell Knight nukage pool secret near the start are marked as hurt floors when they should not be.

- The Chaingunners that lower along with the blue key trap are too much. You cannot even hear their alert sounds and will understandably be more focused on what happed in the room itself. Consider using either a different hitscanner or Imps.
- Little bit of texture misalignment from the viney green bricks in the secret with a bunch of Rocket Ammo in the main O's nukage pool.
- People may get confused by the SIGIL style shootable Evil Eye in the red key area after the Rocket Launcher, especially with it being so dark they may wander around looking for a switch.

- Right after this there are more sniper Chaingunners that are unlikely to be noticed before they have already started chunking you due to ravenants appearing in the player's face. May be frustrating, but at least there are only 2 this time.

- The switch that raises the bridge to get to said ravenant + chaingunner ambush does not seem to animate? That one may be an on my end problem.

- The Invulnerability in this same area is not marked as a Secret but is hidden like it should be labelled one.

- Coordinates X -150, Y 1200 there is a pit with a brown tree and a health bonus that appears to be inescapable. (It is on the bridge that normally leads to the final castle in the original Circle of Death). There is a small nukage pit, but perhaps just make this area inaccessible instead?
- The Shotgunners in the farthest left teleport closet fail to teleport in. Taking a look in Doom Builder, it looks like the Teleport Destination things are missing.
- Health and Ammo balance is mostly good from a first playthrough, only a note on each... There are barely any non-secret (or more or less secret in the case of the Supercharge) health sources at the very start which is a big problem when getting peppered down by hitscanners from so many angles. Perhaps add a couple Medikits on the critical path rather than off to the side. Tons show up after the Blue Key trap, but some is needed before that. Ammo-wise all seems good, though perhaps considering adding some cell ammo. With the original MAP11 not having a Super Shotgun, you REALLY feel the lack of decent offense until that Rocket Launcher so some cells for the Plasma Gun before it would save some tedious shotgunning.

- This map is DARK. Like REALLY dark. I like the moodiness, but perhaps try lighting up some of the areas where you are not trying to hide secrets that are currently pitch black to at least around 76 or 92 or so to prevent a bit of stumbling around. Try it on DSDA's Software renderer to really feel that darkness!

- I would comment on the BFG being nearly pointless, but that is pretty in line with MAP11 admittedly. Nice for Continuous players, though!

Think that all about wraps up my thoughts... Hope some of that helps, and sorry if some of it comes off as fussy!

Hello there, @PinkKittyRose!
With some delay, I'd like to thank you very much for your great feedback, and add a few words to @DoomGappy's.
Regarding bugs and gameplay issues, rest assured that all your words are already being taken into account.
Now, a few questions that may be spoilers for those who haven't played the map yet:
 

Spoiler

- That feeling of "Someone's been through here before..." was certainly the pivot of the map idea. It's even what justifies the map's name: "Circle of life". Here we are again on these two maps that marked a part of our lives, living and walking through them once more. But the maps are not the same. We are not the same. 
- Regarding the bricks at the beginning of the map, @DoomGappy and I joke that the map will be ready when these bricks are 100% in place and without any problems.
- We chose to leave the shotgun "hidden" at the beginning of the map as a non-secret, as a reference to the shotgun in map 11. Perhaps it's a controversial decision because of the door. Thinking about it now, it might be worth changing its texture.
- The affection for the E2M1 that you felt is certainly a possibility hahah. E2M1 was literally the first Doom map I ever played, on my aunt's lap, when I was three years old. Even though I was very young, my memory of seeing that pixelated world for the first time is extremely vivid to this day. So we try to translate this nostalgic feeling as if the player were entering their own memories, hanged over the decades: contradictorily, living for the first time what they have already lived. Deja vu all over again.
- The DoomCute shuttle area is an interval space that allows us to express all our DoomCuteness. It's a little area that's not Doom or Duke Nukem. It's not E2M1 or E11. Apart from that, on the rest of the map, what we tried to do was study and mix the styles of John Romero and Sandy Petersen, as if they both had made our map in partnership.
- We've slightly reduced the difficulty of the blue key area. There is, however, a small detail inside the building that doesn't count as a secret and can make the player's life much much easier. We pondered whether it would be interesting to highlight this alternative or not, when we remembered that one of our playtesters, a ten-year-old child, found it in no time (and so it will remain as it is).
- Like you, we don't really like the final area of map 11 either, which is why we took the liberty of mixing it with various parts of the map, as DoomGappy commented. I think that in comparison with E2M1, map 11 of Doom 2 has a few dots that seem to show Romero's hurry to deliver the finished map. My guess, though.

Once again, thank you very much!