Game that everybody likes but you dislike

[HeatedChocolate]

Something about the nuDoom games always rubbed me the wrong way. I've played 2016 a handful of times on my old xbone but I couldn't really tell you much of what it was about aside from a few neat enemy concepts (The walking explosive barrels are kinda funny to me).
I think my main issue with them is how "dudebro" they feel, iunno. The kind of people who only know Doom from the godforsaken "Rip and Tear" sorta stuff and constantly spout the same 3-4 memes. My eyes glaze over whenever I read through the sorta things those people(?) spout ad nauseam. Saw it earlier in the thread but I gotta agree with the "Brutal doomification" of the doomslayer/marine/whathaveyou, Being an immortal(?) hero of badassery and demon murder is a lot less interesting than just being a marine stuck on Phobos when stuff hits the fan. It's like people saw the comparatively action-packed first episode of the original and based their entire game off of that, ignoring the somewhat atmospheric stuff of later episodes.
Wouldn't say they're automatically garbage, but I can't really bring myself to play 'em.

[Quagsire]

Yakuza Kiwami, having come off of 0 prior it just feels extremely cheap. And I know, RGG Studios is known for reusing old assets, but even this is a bit ridiculous.

[Howerton]

Final Fantasy. They all seem to have the same corny plot and bad gameplay in a different context.

[Hellektronic]

15 hours ago, Asphalt said:

The story, an experiment gone wrong that opens a portal to an alien world inside a secret military base, is literally plagiarized from Corridor 7, whom I had played years before.

Doom is an experiment gone wrong that opens a portal to an alien world inside a secret military base. Quake is too. It's an endlessly reused concept. Nothing wrong with that.

Edited October 16, 2023 by Hellektronic

[Murdoch]

16 hours ago, Asphalt said:

is literally plagiarized from Corridor 7

 

You can hate Half-Life all you want, I don't care, but this is an absolutely absurd criticism. This basic concept is completely not unique Corridor 7. The earliest of example I can recall of the "accidental dimensional crossover" is literally centuries old. Ancient folklore about Fairies says they supposedly had their own world, crossed over into ours, and sometimes took people back to theirs either voluntarily or not. Other more recentish works of the same concept predating Corridor 7 include Wizard of Oz, Chronicles of Narnia, Alice in Wonderland, and Hellraiser. Most likely there are plenty of others.

Edited October 17, 2023 by Murdoch

[TheMagicMushroomMan]

The gameplay in every Witcher game fucking sucks. I have a hard time deciding which is the worst. Witcher 3 before the alternate movement mode update was a fucking nightmare. Even after all the updates it still sucks. It's why I never had any faith in Cyberpunk. Their combat is even worse than a Bethesda game in my opinion.

[Hellektronic]

16 hours ago, HeatedChocolate said:

It's like people saw the comparatively action-packed first episode of the original and based their entire game off of that, ignoring the somewhat atmospheric stuff of later episodes.

I'd avoid Doom Eternal then. It's like all they ever played was the shareware episode of Knee Deep in the Dead where you don't ever have to worry about dying and are unstoppable, and those kind of people made the game, making the Doomguy into this immortal demigod being who can literally do anything because

Spoiler

he was chosen by the angels, who also happen to be evil and in league with Hell mind you. He beats the angels, he beats the demons, and by the end of this circus of overly epic crap in Ancient Gods 2 you find yourself ultimately disappointed by it.

If you hate "dudebro", then steer VERY clear of Eternal. Not that it's a bad game, but the plot is retarded.

Doom 2016 on the other hand, is actually pretty good. Hell seems almost more like an alien planet than biblical Hell, and demons more alien-like, but overall it's pretty cool gameplay wise. And ambiguous enough to the point where the convoluted story of being the supreme ultimate best heroic badass of the universe hadn't been very fleshed out yet. Yes you fought the demons time and time again, killed thousands of them, we all played Doom. But it wasn't like you were goddamn Batman or something. Doom Eternal? You're a superhero. That's about the sum of that.
 

Spoiler

Oh, and by the way, your sidekick is literally God.

 

Edited October 17, 2023 by Hellektronic

[Lila Feuer]

10 hours ago, Murdoch said:

 

You can hate Half-Life all you want, I don't care, but this is an absolutely absurd criticism. This basic concept is completely not unique Corridor 7. The earliest of example I can recall of the "accidental dimensional crossover" is literally centuries old.

 

Plus HL1 is literally inspired by Stephen King's The Mist.

[SPACEDETECTIVE]

Bioshock Infinite is the one of the two only games I flat out despise

[Rudolph]

2 hours ago, Lila Feuer said:

Plus HL1 is literally inspired by Stephen King's The Mist.

Huh? For real? Does it involve headcrab zombies and quirky scientists?

 

1 hour ago, SPACEDETECTIVE said:

Bioshock Infinite is the one of the two only games I flat out despise

What would be the other one?

[SPACEDETECTIVE]

13 minutes ago, Rudolph said:

Huh? For real? Does it involve headcrab zombies and quirky scientists?

 

What would be the other one?

The Thief reboot

[Hebonky]

Half life 2 is just not very enjoyable . Kind of a slog.

[pcorf]

The Super Star Wars games on the SNES. Hard as hell, but addictive. Gorgeous music and SFX.

[Lila Feuer]

28 minutes ago, pcorf said:

The Super Star Wars games on the SNES. Hard as hell, but addictive. Gorgeous music and SFX.

 

If you meant games others hate that you like then I also agree, I grew up with Empire and Jedi as my earliest foray into video games and I'm surprised that didn't end my lifelong hobby before it had even began lol.

Edited October 17, 2023 by Lila Feuer

[HeatedChocolate]

On 10/16/2023 at 6:30 AM, HeatedChocolate said:

Whining about nuDoom

Also is it just me or did nuDoom discourse on the internet completely die after Eternal (Or Eternal's DLCs) released? I've only ever seen talk of classic Doom for the longest time. Hell, I think I've seen more Doom 3 discussion than nuDoom discussion.

[Asphalt]

On 10/17/2023 at 1:42 AM, Murdoch said:

 

You can hate Half-Life all you want, I don't care, but this is an absolutely absurd criticism. This basic concept is completely not unique Corridor 7. The earliest of example I can recall of the "accidental dimensional crossover" is literally centuries old. Ancient folklore about Fairies says they supposedly had their own world, crossed over into ours, and sometimes took people back to theirs either voluntarily or not. Other more recentish works of the same concept predating Corridor 7 include Wizard of Oz, Chronicles of Narnia, Alice in Wonderland, and Hellraiser. Most likely there are plenty of others.

 

I know that the "basic concept" of "dimensional portals" and "accidental crossovers" have obviously not been invented by Corridor 7.

Basically EVERY game that was ever made in the 90s share that same premise of space portals to alternate universes, if you think about it... I mean, literally every game... Turok, Serious Sam, Chasm, among the others, even without having to bother venturing to completely different genres where you'd find stuff like Another World, Outcast, Dreams To Reality, Heart Of Darkness, etcetera. There's dozens of them.

But one thing is having a base concept, a different thing is THE PLOT being exactly the same.

Hence why I said it's plagiarized. Because it is.

 

On 10/17/2023 at 1:26 AM, Hellektronic said:

Doom is an experiment gone wrong that opens a portal to an alien world inside a secret military base. Quake is too. It's an endlessly reused concept. Nothing wrong with that.

 

Yeah, nothing wrong.

But Doom and Quake have very little to do with actual experiments, that you never see in-game and are only mentioned in the manual as something that's maybe happened, who knows when and who knows where, plus the settings are completely different. Doom opens a portal to Hell, Quake to the reign of chaos, or whatever, so technically there's no aliens in any of those games either. Quake is designed as a gothic horror game. And even Doom was initially conceived that way, with lots of references to satanism and the occult that had to be cut to avoid controversy, and many are still there. Both games are set sometime in the far future, not in present-day world. And in both games, the story is not by any means confined to the base. In the case of Quake, the military base doesn't even appear at all, because the action takes place in the four realms of the Netherworld, and it's you going down there, not monsters coming to Earth. Doom takes place in Hell for three episodes out of four.

 

Corridor 7 and Half Life, instead, share the exact same story, the exact same tone, the exact same atmosphere, colorful alien invaders, and the exact same location being a research labs facility, with offices, storage areas, computer stations, etcetera. Both games, even if in different ways for glaring reasons, directly show you the experiment and the portal being opened at the very beginning, with hostile lifeforms exiting from it, and the fact that you are confined to the techbase is a central part of the gameplay. You only experience the alien world at the very end. Half Life even had the wall-mounted powerchargers and first-aid packs, just like Corridor 7.

 

Quake and Doom, and Turok, and Chasm, and many others, all had their own distinct identity.

Half Life 1 stole that from Corridor 7, and to me it's so blatant it hurts.

 

Sorry for the late response.

 

Edited October 18, 2023 by Asphalt

[Murdoch]

45 minutes ago, Asphalt said:

But one thing is having a base concept, a different thing is THE PLOT being exactly the same.

 

The plots of both games are demonstrably not exactly the same. That is hyperbolic nonsense. To suggest Valve knew such an obscure game even existed in the first place is a questionable claim. It's a similar trope, hardly original, done in different ways.

 

45 minutes ago, Asphalt said:

And even Doom was initially conceived that way, with lots of references to satanism and the occult that had to be cut to avoid controversy, and many are still there.

 

Eh... what? This is the first I have heard of this and I can find no reference to id cutting things to avoid controversy online. They were more the "Controversy? Sweet!" guys. The only thing I know they changed was the swastika shape in one of the episode one maps, and many things were pulled to simplify and streamline gameplay during the beta phase. So going to have to call "Citation needed" on this comment.

Edited October 18, 2023 by Murdoch

[HeatedChocolate]

58 minutes ago, Asphalt said:

But Doom and Quake have very little to do with actual experiments, that you never see in-game and are only mentioned in the manual as something that's maybe happened

Call me crazy, but I think Corridor 7 only has it in a cutscene, Half Life has you cause it, I think that's a tad different than just watching it.
 

59 minutes ago, Asphalt said:

Corridor 7 and Half Life, instead, share the exact same story, the exact same tone, the exact same atmosphere, colorful alien invaders, and the exact same location being a research labs facility, with offices, storage areas, computer stations, etcetera

 

I get the feeling that a completely 3D game with obscene amounts of environmental interactivity (For the time) is significantly different in location, tone and atmosphere than a game built off of the Wolfenstein engine. Hell, Doom has the same locations as Corridor 7, and just as abstract. As for the colorful alien invaders, the most color I remember seeing from Half Life aliens is the lightning on vort attacks, they're very muted. If anything, Doom's enemies are as colorful as Corridor 7's.

I also don't recall seeing anything about hostile military forces, some form of alien ecosystem (IE, headcrabs get eaten by bullsquids), interdimensional bureaucrats, or the variety of different enemies in Corridor 7 that you do in Half Life. I think you're just deliberately glossing over the very, very large divide between Half Life and Corridor 7 just so you can fling dung at Half Life.

[MrFlibble]

6 hours ago, HeatedChocolate said:

Doom has the same locations as Corridor 7, and just as abstract.

That's not really true. Just like Wolfenstein 3-D or Blake Stone, Corridor 7 actually manages to pull off more convincingly looking locations with a sense of place than Doom, perhaps thanks to a more varied set of props such as chairs, tables, computer terminals, etc. You know that this is an office and that is a lab and so on, whereas in Doom, many places are variously decorated rooms with only a vague hint of their actual purpose from the in-game lore standpoint. To say that Doom and Corridor 7 have the same locations would not be doing a courtesy to either game.

 

I would not agree with the notion of Half-Life plagiarizing Corridor 7, but if you are familiar with both games, the coincidences like the ones @Asphalt has outlined are very obvious. It is one thing to say that there is nothing original in the concept of an "accidental dimensional crossover", but the Corridor 7 intro clearly shows that the portal opens after scientists tried to experiment on an alien artifact, which is all too similar to how the story unfolds in Half-Life, but not a very common trope generally, AFAIK. And this is distinctly different from the way portals are opened in Doom or Quake. However, I do believe that maybe something like this is may be found in an old sci-fi flick, but I'm not aware of it.

[Hellektronic]

Hm... seems like differentiating between dimensional rift story-lines is kinda splitting hairs, really. *shrugs* Personally I only like Half-Life 1 because of that story-line. And it's genetic relationship to Quake.



 

[MrFlibble]

12 hours ago, Hellektronic said:

seems like differentiating between dimensional rift story-lines is kinda splitting hairs, really

The very first time I saw the Corridor 7 cinematic I immediately thought, wow, this is almost exactly like in Half-Life. I'm not a fan of conspiracy theories and I don't really care if that's a coincidence or not, but it's a fact that one cannot deny.

 

Just the same as reading the back-story of Quake you cannot ignore the similarities to the plot of Doom, but here at least it's obvious that id just recycled the same concepts but in complete 3D.

[Gmg]

Fortnite. Too weird game concept and content, also weapons are not precise.

[Aaron Blain]

I always dread getting peer-pressured into playing some version of Mario Kart. I find it really boring.

 

I won't diss Doom 2016 in detail, but I'll just say it lacks most of what I want from an FPS. I made it to the Hell episode but got bored and haven't come back to it.

 

I am genuinely baffled by the popularity of Minecraft.

[CacoKnight]

On 10/9/2023 at 11:53 AM, Jayextee said:

I wouldn't call people stupid for having opinions, that's just rude. Half-Life itself isn't terrible per se, and I guess as per the topic title 'hate' is too strong a term for how I feel about it. Most definitely overrated to me, though.

I remember when it came out, I was 16-17, it was something no one ever saw before, that's why it's so important but I agree with you in a way, a little overrated, still extremely important. IMO Half-Life 2 is the true masterpiece to this day, only Doom beats it.

 

Back to the topic, I liked Doom 3 but I won't touch Doom 2016 and Doom Eternal even if you paid me, too old for all that new stuff, I watch my son playing them and I don't like them at all.

More, I like Quake ambiance, musics/sounds but I don't like the game that much, the monsters suck too. I won't even comment on Quake 2 but I loved Quake 3 Arena/Team Arena.

 

4 hours ago, Aaron Blain said:

I am genuinely baffled by the popularity of Minecraft.

I truly believe Minecraft is the best video game ever created. Again, never touched it but I setup servers etc. and I've watched my son playing it for years.

Edited November 8, 2023 by CacoKnight

[EraserheadBaby]

Morrowind.  The combat just threw me out of it.  I can appreciate the depth, but character movement was just so janky.

 

 

Gotta love that rich mud crab though

Edited November 20, 2023 by EraserheadBaby

[Asphalt]

On 10/18/2023 at 12:28 PM, HeatedChocolate said:

I get the feeling that a completely 3D game with obscene amounts of environmental interactivity (For the time) is significantly different in location, tone and atmosphere than a game built off of the Wolfenstein engine.

 

Hmm... Duke Nukem 3D was a game with an "obscene amount of environmental interactivity". And it came out 2 years prior. And was infinitely better under any possible aspect. In Half Life, as far as I remember, all of that supposed "interactivity" was limited to repeatedly destroying an undisclosed number of damn crates and exploiting a terribly implemented wannabe-physics system that wasn't even capable of getting right the basic baricentre of objects, in order to get to some locations that would be otherwise unaccessible. Every once in a while, pushing a button to do random, completely unnecessary stuff.

 

On 10/18/2023 at 12:28 PM, HeatedChocolate said:

I think you're just deliberately glossing over the very, very large divide between Half Life and Corridor 7 just so you can fling dung at Half Life.

 

I think you are just deliberately glossing on the fact that Half Life was released five years later, had probably more than twenty times the budget, and was powered by a game engine that was basically THREE generations more advanced, just so that you can not see what's more than evident. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
And remember that back in the 90s just a six months difference could mean doubling or even tripling the computational capabilities of available hardwares and the technological efficiency of related softwares... imagine five years... 

 

Look. I get that they are completely different games, and resonated in a VERY different way. They are both objectively quite bad if you ask me, albeit for different reasons. But consider that C7 had been made by a small independent software house, with a team of about ten people that had to work simultaneously on multiple projects to stay up to the day. They were developing Zorro and Operation Body Count in that same period. Half Life instead had been developed by what was already a large company, had a basically an unlimited budget because Gabe Newell was a millionaire thanks to his previous career at Microsoft, afforded to license what basically was the absolute best game engine ever seen for that era, and was distributed by Sierra, possibly the biggest retailing and marketing company of that time. So yeah. C7 is a not a good game. But still far better and noteworthy than Half Life. At least it had some justification for not being one.

 

On 10/18/2023 at 11:59 AM, Murdoch said:

Eh... what? This is the first I have heard of this and I can find no reference to id cutting things to avoid controversy online. They were more the "Controversy? Sweet!" guys. The only thing I know they changed was the swastika shape in one of the episode one maps, and many things were pulled to simplify and streamline gameplay during the beta phase. So going to have to call "Citation needed" on this comment.

 

There was no such thing as "online controversy" back in 1993. There was no online, basically. What I was mainly referring to is the fact that they'd been working extensively for a year on a game that had been very much hyped by the gamers community, while being conceived to be (at least initially) "satanism-centered" in a time when there had already been fervent discussions by a government-lead censorship commission about limitations and bannings to impose over the video game industry due to the raising popularity of violent and immoral games like Mortal Kombat, Splatterhouse, Lethal Enforcers, Night Trap and others, that back then were easily available to children, in spite of presenting very adult-oriented contents. 

It was that same exact timeframe. And id Software was an independent company that relied on selling their products for an income, even if they were pretty successful already. They most certainly needed to limit REAL controversy in order to not get their game retired from the market entirely. I think I remember it mentions it briefly in the Masters Of Doom book, I may be wrong, I read it a long time ago. 

 

But as you said, they had to cut references to swastikas, they didn't use many of the sprite ideas they had already drawn for the alpha versions (mainly the unholy bible, reversed crosses, and some of the more gruesome background tiles and embellishments), and it's clear that they had a lot of other content that was left behind in the cutting room. Romero even released some of those unused graphics a couple years ago. Who knows how many other ideas were left off.

 

On 10/18/2023 at 6:42 PM, MrFlibble said:

I would not agree with the notion of Half-Life plagiarizing Corridor 7, but if you are familiar with both games, the coincidences like the ones @Asphalt has outlined are very obvious. It is one thing to say that there is nothing original in the concept of an "accidental dimensional crossover", but the Corridor 7 intro clearly shows that the portal opens after scientists tried to experiment on an alien artifact, which is all too similar to how the story unfolds in Half-Life, but not a very common trope generally, AFAIK. And this is distinctly different from the way portals are opened in Doom or Quake.

 

On 10/19/2023 at 5:10 PM, MrFlibble said:

The very first time I saw the Corridor 7 cinematic I immediately thought, wow, this is almost exactly like in Half-Life. I'm not a fan of conspiracy theories and I don't really care if that's a coincidence or not, but it's a fact that one cannot deny.

 

Thanks for understanding my point perfectly. 

 

And again, sorry for the very late response and for bumping this thread up again. I haven't had much time to hang on here as of late.

Edited December 2, 2023 by Asphalt
some typos and layout corrections

[ReaperAA]

On 12/2/2023 at 4:10 PM, Asphalt said:

more than twenty times the budget,

 

Citation?

 

On 12/2/2023 at 4:10 PM, Asphalt said:

They are both objectively quite bad if you ask me, albeit for different reasons.

 

Subjective opinion. Only one of them is bad in my eyes and it isn't Half-Life.

 

On 12/2/2023 at 4:10 PM, Asphalt said:

But consider that C7 had been made by a small independent software house, with a team of about ten people that had to work simultaneously on multiple projects to stay up to the day. They were developing Zorro and Operation Body Count in that same period. Half Life instead had been developed by what was already a large company, had a basically an unlimited budget because Gabe Newell was a millionaire thanks to his previous career at Microsoft, afforded to license what basically was the absolute best game engine ever seen for that era, and was distributed by Sierra, possibly the biggest retailing and marketing company of that time. So yeah. C7 is a not a good game. But still far better and noteworthy than Half Life. At least it had some justification for not being one.

 

Valve was bigger yes, but they were still only around 30 people divided across 2 projects, Prospero and Quiver. Quiver ended up being renamed to Half-Life while Prospero eventually got canned. And they didn't had anywhere close to "unlimited budget". Valve as a company was dependent on Half Life's success in order to survive. They even made a deal with Sierra precisely because they "needed" someone to distribute the games as Valve were running out of money.

 

Compare that to Capstone, who despite being the "small independent software house" was somehow also able to license id's engine (wolf 3d engine, which was the best engine out there when C7's development began in 1993), license the build engine (again top of the line engine for 1995), was able to get William Shatner for Tekwar and didn't meet their demise until several of their games had flopped.

 

On 12/2/2023 at 4:10 PM, Asphalt said:

So yeah. C7 is a not a good game. But still far better and noteworthy than Half Life. At least it had some justification for not being one.

 

HL has the justification of being a polished game (unlike C7) and also bringing innovations such skeletal animations (was revolutionary) and also it's AI being ahead of other games at the time.

 

On 12/2/2023 at 4:10 PM, Asphalt said:

Hmm... Duke Nukem 3D was a game with an "obscene amount of environmental interactivity". And it came out 2 years prior. And was infinitely better under any possible aspect. In Half Life, as far as I remember, all of that supposed "interactivity" was limited to repeatedly destroying an undisclosed number of damn crates and exploiting a terribly implemented wannabe-physics system that wasn't even capable of getting right the basic baricentre of objects, in order to get to some locations that would be otherwise unaccessible. Every once in a while, pushing a button to do random, completely unnecessary stuff.

 

To your credit, I do agree that Duke3D deserves quite some praise and I actually feel that it is underappreciated outside of "retro fps circles" probably because DNF tarnished the franchise.

Edited February 7 by ReaperAA

[RushupDen]

Half Life serie.. Never understood the hype. I thought it was pretty boring 

 

[Mr Masker]

On 10/17/2023 at 12:05 PM, SPACEDETECTIVE said:

Bioshock Infinite is the one of the two only games I flat out despise

I had played both Bioshock games years back, had a good time with both. Went to Infinite and was just like, "this isn't Bioshock, tf is this?" and gave up on it.

 

Not that bothered to try it again after all these years, even if everyone loves it.

Edited December 2, 2023 by Mr Masker

[Cruduxy Pegg]

Gonna add another voice against Elden Ring. I was already skeptical about playing this genre but meh whatever what can go wrong? The game was good until the end of Lyndell city then it took a huge dive in quality that I was wondering if I was playing the same game or moved to a trash $10 dlc.. and that's like the later half of the insanely bloated game.

 

I would honestly give it an 8 if I had stopped when Lyndell city ended but having dared finish it to the end through those horrible last zones I am not sure I would give it a 5 or ever replay it again. The music is pretty good at least. I'd rather freaking go back in time and use that play time to finish Oblivion instead.