Forsaken - A Doom II: Hell on Earth Megawad

[IDGam3r]

Hello,

 

You clicked on this post expecting an already done WAD to play, well there is none, yet.

 

BUT!
 

I do want to get a team together to make this Megawad a reality, let me hit you with the story:

 

”Set in a Alternate Reality that Diverges from the end of Episode 3 of Doom, The Demons invade Earth and turn it into a hellish wasteland abundant with lava.

 

Destroyed Skyscrapers, ruined houses, and DoomGuys family murdered, he only has one thing on his mind, To make those fucking Demon Scumbags pay for what they have done, and pay with their lives”

 

Forsaken’s overarching theme sees 4 themes: Outer City, Inner City, UAC Facility in Area 51, Nevada and Hell.

 

So now your asking “Who do you need?”, well I myself can make maps and if I stop procrastinating and learn C I could probably do some programming too, but I’m only one person, and if I devoted to this project, it would take decades to make, so I’d like to get:

 

1. A C Developer who can do all the programming, maybe 2 if need be.

 

2. An artist to do any Visual aspects, maybe 2 if need be.

 

3. 3 Map Developers to help me make the maps.

 

4. A Audio Guy for any music and sound effects.

 

5. Someone who knows how to put maps and textures and audio and whatnot into a self contained .wad file.

 

This is moreso a project I am interested in doing and I would prefer to get new guys who have the skills to help bring this to life but have not done anything like this before and are genuinely interested in being apart of this project.

 

Your application should contain your name, what your skillset is, What “position” your applying for and a small sample of your skills.

 

 

I look forward to the replies.

[Shepardus]

Two questions:

1. What do you need a C programmer for?
2. What parts of this are you going to do?

[Walter confetti]

18 minutes ago, Shepardus said:

What do you need a C programmer for?

Is the same thing i was thinking too

[riktoi]

Perhaps consider having something to show rather than just an idea, to show you yourself are motivated to work on this. It doesn't particularly fill any readers with confidence.

 

Good luck!

[nolongeramnion]

[blanked lol]

Edited October 11, 2023 by amnion
to ironic

[IDGam3r]

46 minutes ago, Shepardus said:

Two questions:

1. What do you need a C programmer for?
2. What parts of this are you going to do?

 

 

1. Any weapons or additional functions.

 

2. Mapping, it’s about the only skill I have for this project.

[IDGam3r]

11 minutes ago, amnion said:

Hi IDGam3r I can help you do all of these things we can do a 2 man team in half the time of 10 men team if you follow my instructions 

 

You sound rather……what the polite term?

 

Authorative.

[IDGam3r]

22 minutes ago, riktoi said:

Perhaps consider having something to show rather than just an idea, to show you yourself are motivated to work on this. It doesn't particularly fill any readers with confidence.

 

Good luck!

 

You want screenshots of my still W.I.P Sewer Slaughter Map, it’s like 1/16th done.

[Ravendesk]

With a team like that you should also consider hiring QA and a scrum master.

[Murdoch]

If you cannot list what skills you can bring to the table and what experience you have that would prevent this project being yet another flameout by yet another person no one has ever heard of, this project will go absolutely nowhere. You are new to the community. We are generally a pretty accepting bunch, happy to help newcomers, but trying to sprint before you can crawl by announcing a big massive project will simply not work. You are basically stomping in and saying "hey, make my project for me". Put yourself in our shoes. Would you respond well to someone making that demand? I think not.

 

4 hours ago, IDGam3r said:

1. A C Developer who can do all the programming, maybe 2 if need be.

 

This will never happen. Good programmers are rare, good programmers with time to spare are rarer still. They are also, for projects like this, not necessary. New weapons can be done without traditional programming. This has been possible for well over a decade in many ports. No one wants to have to rely on a custom engine for a mod - take that from the guy who did a few back in the early days of source ports.

 

4 hours ago, IDGam3r said:

new guys who have the skills to help bring this to life but have not done anything like this before and are genuinely interested in being apart of this project.

 

Another flaw in your proposal. "New guys" don't have the skills. Making good music and art assets takes time, effort and practice. Making good maps requires that too plus a good understanding of the game mechanics. Enthusiasm is a must, and good, but no one is good out of the starting blocks like that.

Edited October 11, 2023 by Murdoch

[Matt Eldrydge]

Might want to check this thread first. Not even trying to be mean, it's genuinely helpful.

 

 

I'll say the idea isn't bad per say, but it is awfully vague and comes off as...how can I put this? Very oblivious? Like, you REALLY shouldn't wrangle with Doom's source code to make new weapons and monsters in a world where Decorate, Script and MBF21 exist. Same with ACS scripting for maps, or voodoo doll conveyors if you prefer something mapping for Boom.

 

Now, music and graphic assets are hard work. I suck at anything beyond stitching two textures together myself. Find a texture pack (or many of them) and learn to use the new textures, check the Doom wiki or Doomworld for MIDIs. You can find sprites too, just remember to at the very least credit everything you use and to ask for permission if the creator doesn't already say it's free to use.

 

Also, a reminder you don't need custom-made assets to make a great mapset! See Going Down, Shallow World E1 and Bellatrix: Tales of Orionis. All of these are made with mostly if not only vanilla textures, with the skies being the only major new graphics.

 

Finally, my personal advice: pick a port first, decide what features the WAD should have and make a couple of unrelated maps to build your experience (and reputation) up, not necessarily in that order but these steps are all tied together. Then, come back and start a new thread, but remember to lead by example - make a map that shows off both your style and what the project's feel is supposed to be like.

 

I sincerely hope this helps. I've led a small project with friends and found out being a project lead is a pretty unenviable and thankless task, so you'll want to start off small. Six or seven maps is a much easier number to reach if you're new to this.

[Tangra]

4 hours ago, IDGam3r said:

 

You want screenshots of my still W.I.P Sewer Slaughter Map, it’s like 1/16th done.

 

Don't you have other completed maps outside this project of yours that we can try out? Don't tell me that you've never completed a map before, and you're already asking for programmers and composers for your first ever wad. You should have a catalog of maps before aiming this high.

In my honest opinion, most of what you're asking for, you don't really need. Lower your ambitions to the level of your own abilities. If all you can do is map, then start a community project centered around mapping, with themes, story and texture pack of your choice. But that should still be well-thought-out and organized, otherwise it won't get far.

Edited October 11, 2023 by Tangra

[IDGam3r]

1 hour ago, Murdoch said:

If you cannot list what skills you can bring to the table and what experience you have that would prevent this project being yet another flameout by yet another person no one has ever heard of, this project will go absolutely nowhere.

 

My only skill for my project is map making,  with that stated, I am also deceptively impatient, and 99% of the maps I make go unfinished either because I’m never happy with what I have made(99% of the time)or other things start eating away at my mapping time(1% of the time).

 

That said, this sewer map I am working on I am actually happy with, it’s sort of shaping up to be what I am wantingmy current issue is the “Walkways” are a series of 90 degree turns, t junctions, s corridors and long straits, very “Flat” at present.

 

Quote

You are new to the community. We are generally a pretty accepting bunch, happy to help newcomers, but trying to sprint before you can crawl by announcing a big massive project will simply not work.

 

I can crawl, definately, I know HOW to map, Granted I’m still struggling to get doors to work, but that should’nt take me long to figure out.

 

But sprinting, Welcome to my mind, I have millions of ideas bouncing in my head that I wanna get going on, a 32 map Doom Mappack is one of those ideas.

 

Quote

You are basically stomping in and saying "hey, make my project for me". Put yourself in our shoes. Would you respond well to someone making that demand? I think not.

 

In someone elses shoes, probably not, but if I had more skills I’d be quite generous, but I come from growing up not having anyone help me out when I needed or wanted it so I’m of a generous mentality, “No one was willing to help me, but why should that mean I should be equally selfish”

 

Quote

This will never happen. Good programmers are rare, good programmers with time to spare are rarer still.

 

To be fair, I’m tryna learn C myself, but urgh, the more in depth I go the harder it gets to comprehend.

 

Quote

They are also, for projects like this, not necessary. New weapons can be done without traditional programming. This has been possible for well over a decade in many ports. No one wants to have to rely on a custom engine for a mod - take that from the guy who did a few back in the early days of source ports.

 

Your saying one could say import a AK-47 stats and all into Doom without actually coding it’s stats in.

 

Quote

Another flaw in your proposal. "New guys" don't have the skills. Making good music and art assets takes time, effort and practice. Making good maps requires that too plus a good understanding of the game mechanics. Enthusiasm is a must, and good, but no one is good out of the starting blocks like that.

ID Software was not too far different, think about it, during Doom’s development, Romero, Hall, McGee, Peterson, Had to learn DoomED and Learn how to make levels, fair point, they had some prior experience but with DoomED they were beginners, because Doom’s levels were not the flat mazes they had been building three games prior.

 

Any new Doom Level Designer will basically be the same, learn the tools and experiment, learning the tools together is made more enjoyable by the fact that everyone reaps the benefits, put it this way, I’m still a beginner, yes, I have used the tools before, and have a rudimentary understanding of some of it’s functions, which does make me a wee bit more experienced, but let me ask you, if you were a beginner mapper interested in this project, Do you think my wee bit of experience with the tool is going to be of much benefit?

 

Music and art side, fair Bobby, Adrian and Kevin had experience in those fields which gives them a leg up BUT experience is the best teacher and being apart of a project like this is a great way to put newly developed music and/or art skills into practice.

[IDGam3r]

37 minutes ago, Tangra said:

 

Don't you have other completed maps outside this project of yours that we can try out? Don't tell me that you've never completed a map before, and you're already asking for programmers and composers for your first ever wad. You should have a catalog of maps before aiming this high.

 

Call me a Masochistic Optimist.

 

And no, no map ever made by me has been completed but they have been tested and usually given the “It needs alot of work” lot of feedback.

 

Most maps I make end up deleted because they were not panning out as I envisioned, for example, i had this idea for a UAC Mars Headquarters Map set in a “Mountain” and apart of the map i wanted a big gaping hole to give the illusion that the base was “Embedded” into a mountain, I finished the first room, played it, was allright, then tried doing the outdoor area……it refused to do what I wanted it to do, so I scrapped it.

 

37 minutes ago, Tangra said:

In my honest opinion, most of what you're asking for, you don't really need.

 

Call it “Stuck in the thought that a great megawad has custom sounds, textures, weapons, etc, etc”

 

37 minutes ago, Tangra said:

Lower your ambitions to the level of your own abilities.

 

Then that makes my ambition virtually, nearly non existent(Maybe I’m being a bit hard on myself, but put it this way I can sing, really good, so i could aspire for the stars, but I HATE toting off abilities I’m actually good at, it comes off as narcicistic, I hate narcisists)

 

37 minutes ago, Tangra said:

If all you can do is map, then start a community project centered around mapping, with themes, story and texture pack of your choice. But that should still be well-thought-out and organized, otherwise it won't get far.

Funny you mention organisation, given time and motivation I am exceptionally well organised and everything is thoroughly analysed and planned out, sadly for stuff like this there is never enough information, one might look up “How long does it take to make a Doom Map?” and you get answers like “It varies baded on skill, complexity, etc, etc” or “Anywhere between 5 mins and several millenia”, I’m like “So how the fuck am I supposed to plan with that vague information”

 

But in this project i did outline themes, 4 to be exact.

[Master O]

@IDGam3r, on a semi-related note, there's already a commercial Descent-like game called Forsaken, so you may want to use a different name for your wad:

 

https://youtu.be/tNMWdo0ox9o?si=z7BvJ5EobgJ4u3W0&t=30

[IDGam3r]

8 minutes ago, Master O said:

@IDGam3r, on a semi-related note, there's already a commercial Descent-like game called Forsaken, so you may want to use a different name for your wad:

 

https://youtu.be/tNMWdo0ox9o?si=z7BvJ5EobgJ4u3W0&t=30

 1. The name doesn’t matter, it’s the content therein, think of five songs with the exact same title but notice the content of each is different and more often than not the artist/s don’t get pinged.

 

2. Cool game.

 

3. (Unrelated) I have played Descent when I was little, it scared me, I never played it since, i played it around the same time(5 years old) I played Doom and Heretic(Both scared me, yet Doom was gripping enough to make a man out of me).

 

4. Spiritual sequel to Descent?

 

[Biodegradable]

If you know how to make Doom maps and understand how modding Doom works, then you should know that thanks to the advancement of resources the community has built in regards to ports, level editors, map formats, scripting languages and the huge and freely accessible library of custom sprites, textures and weapons; I don't get why you would really need a programmer at all. Unless you're absolutely determined to create your own implementations from complete scratch, you should have no issue achieving any of the goals you have for your megaWAD with the stuff that's already available. I think what most of us are driving at here is it sounds more like you want to make a completely new IP, rather than a Doom megaWAD. If that isn't the case and you just feel compelled to make absolutely everything from scratch, well the best thing you can do is show us what you have.

 

Your thread topic reads a little too typically like an Ideas Guy thread, so if you could actually show us any kind of working progress via an early alpha/beta WAD with some maps in it or just some screenshots of them, it would help lend you more credibility and people will take you more seriously, mate. If you've made a map or two, please by all means show us! If you can produce anything in regards to a WIP with some interesting ideas, it will attract all sorts of people who might want to contribute to your project. I think the only thing you'd have a hard time with is finding an extra programmer, as most of the programmers here are too busy imprisoned inside their source ports and level editors they maintain hehe.

[taviow]

No need for a C developer, no need for artists because the "hellish wasteland abundant with lava" look can be accomplished with resources already freely available in the community. I can see the need for music, but lacking composers, you can also get creative because there's a lot of music to be found across the community.

 

I think initially you just need maps. If you have maps in progress then some screenshots would be nice. If they look good I'm sure they'll garner interest from people.

 

Most importantly, mapping is a ton of fun, so have fun! :)

 

Edited October 11, 2023 by taviow

[LuzRoja29]

i can help you with codding (in decorate)

[MFG38]

Take this from someone whose first public wad release was a shitty 32-level megawad: you're biting off way more than you can chew. Not to mention that, as Bio said, the OP reads too much like an Ideas Guy™ post. We've seen enough of such threads pop up and nothing ever came out of them, least of all a completed project. I'm not meaning to sound offensive when I say this, but do yourself a favor and ditch this idea until you actually understand the effort involved.

Edited October 11, 2023 by MFG38

[Walter confetti]

9 hours ago, IDGam3r said:

1. Any weapons or additional functions.

For that you just need Dehacked, silly!

If this new megawad doesn't work with a complete new source ports, i don't see why you need C programmers for that...

Edited October 11, 2023 by Walter confetti

[Finnisher]

5 hours ago, IDGam3r said:

I know HOW to map, Granted I’m still struggling to get doors to work

 

I'm sorry but if you are struggling to get doors to work you do not quite yet know how to map. Which means your team of mappers would do the heavy lifting for you really.

 

So just make some maps, along the themes you listed, and learn mapping better while at it. And like others have said what you outlined does not need a programmer/composer/artist to achieve, you can put in custom weapon sprites and define their behaviour with scripting surely, etc etc (since you used AK47 as an example).

[deleted-account]

Getting some déjà vu from this thread... similar to this old post

But jokes aside, I hope your idea comes to fruition! 

[Lila Feuer]

Am I the only one who's amused by the fact he lists four themes and groups Nevada and Hell as one and the same?

[Yagacaw]

7 minutes ago, Lila Feuer said:

Am I the only one who's amused by the fact he lists four themes and groups Nevada and Hell as one and the same?

 

I am also amused that there's four themes and half of them are City.

 

All joking aside @IDGam3r Your ambitions sound as grand as mine at times.  I would often get overwhelmed by the scale of my own plans and would eventually get frustrated and drop the project for something else. Something I found useful was to Participate in a Speed-mapping community project. (Shout out to Pineapple Under the Sea Speedmaping) You can have fun making maps, get your confidence up as a mapper, Then you can better know what you need to accomplish your goals, and what you can realistically produce.

 

I was intrigued by the boldness of your request to take applications for what is essentially a small software company you wanted to create. So I checked out your post history and it looks like you tried to do something like this 8 years ago but nothing came of it. I would not want to volunteer my time for something unlikely to be anything that also doesn't seem different from the ID Doom games enough to be interesting. Also maybe its because your tone is reminding me of past Project mangers, but it feels less like you want to collaborate with others then you want them to create your vision for you. 

 

Good luck with whatever you end up doing!

 

 

[Finnisher]

56 minutes ago, Lila Feuer said:

Am I the only one who's amused by the fact he lists four themes and groups Nevada and Hell as one and the same?

 

I thought that too but looking closer I think it's "Area 51, Nevada" and "Hell" lmao

[sandwedge]

I'm in.

[Murdoch]

@IDGam3r, alllow me to be 100% clear. I am not trying to discourage you. I am encouraging you but also telling you to be realistic. If you have no released work to refer people to to prove you mean business, your odds of getting anyone to join your project are slim to nil. We have seen new people with little experience come in with big grand plans then disappear time and again. This is why I and others are justifiably cynical of your proposal.

 

Work on your mapping skills. Release a map or two. Call it a prelude to this. Maybe then you will have the skill and credibility to pull off a large project. Maybe you only ever release a few maps. And that's fine. I would rather play a few good maps than 32 mediocre ones.

[Shepardus]

Since this thread is still alive, I thought I'd indulge you and expand on my first reply.

 

I think before moving forward with a large project like this, you need to take a step back and get a better understanding of what actually goes into a project like you envision. You don't have to be an expert on everything, but if you don't have at least a high level idea, you're going to have a hard time getting the support you're looking for, not only because people are hesitant to jump onboard with someone who has nothing to show for it, but more importantly because if you don't clearly understand what you need and why you need it, you won't have any idea whether the people who do join will actually be able to help you achieve your goals. You'll waste your time and theirs barking up the wrong tree.

 

Some concrete examples:

• Making a megawad does not involve any C code. Level scripting, new weapons, even total conversions like Ashes: Afterglow, none of that involves C. Yes, Doom itself was written in C, but WAD files do not contain C code. You writing that you're looking for a C programmer immediately signals that you actually have no idea what you're looking for, let alone how much of it you need (you say "if need be," but would you even know when you need two developers or two artists?). Do some more research into how these things are made - crack open your favorite WADs in SLADE, peruse the wikis, ask around in the editing subforum - and try writing some stuff for small projects, and maybe then you'll know better than to ask C developers to make a megawad.
• "Someone who knows how to put maps and textures and audio and whatnot into a self contained .wad file" is usually the project leader. It doesn't have to be, but they're the person producing what ultimately gets put in front of the audience, so I would imagine that as a project leader you'd want at least some input in that. And frankly, the basics are not that complicated, so you writing that you need someone who can do that just implies that you haven't done your own homework. Don't get me wrong, compiling a large project can be a significant logistical undertaking, but if that's what you need help with, you'd probably have more specific questions and requests, and at that point you'd know what to do. Again, do some research into how these things work - see what's contained in the WADs that you know, look up what those lumps do, try out some of the tools that people use for these purposes.

Hope that helps you understand why people are skeptical of your proposal, and gives you somewhere to go from here. And if not, maybe I can at least recycle this post for future threads.

[SyntherAugustus]

I literally logged in just to see if the [/newproject] tag still worked. Sadly it doesn't. I think we need to bring it back for instances like this.

 

But hey, for old times sake, I remember the text!

 

IDGam3r, before you start asking for help on your new mega-cool-and-whatnot project, make sure you have something to show first (screenshots, map downloads, etc). Keep in mind we've already seen thousands of upcoming projects that actually never got done.

Edited October 11, 2023 by SyntherAugustus