Why Did The Devs Do This (locked: awful thread with question answered definitively in the first post)

[Noomerdoomer]

Ok I watched this YouTube video call doom challenges deemed impossible. In the video he mention the various commercially released games and what the challenges were oe rather at the time he made the video which is four years ago had the challenge been beaten or not. One of the main challenges that came up for a lot in the different classic dooms where secrets thought impossible to get to until someone figured out a bug or trick to get them others still know about haven't been solved and may never be. My question ìs these are secrets so why did the creators of the game on do this. I mean I understand making the obscure an a bit hard to find but not impossible to get what is the point in doing that? Because I thought the major thing with secrets in doom where to hide ammo or med packs to help you threw the level. Like little bonus areas. But the ones he showcased didn't give you extra health all it did

was check it off so you could have better of getting 100% in secrets for that level. So why make them at all and especially so difficult to get that it takes the community of doom players over 20 to figure out how to tigger some of them.  as much i think doom is pretty dang close to perfect this just seems like bad game design. Doesn't make sense to put stuff like that in a game.

Q

[maxmanium]

It's a mistake

[Guff dotD]

Is this a troll post? lol.

 

Also, nobody can really help you understand which 'impossible doom challenge' you're talking about (Pain Elemental Secret on Map15? or 100% Kills on Map30 or E1M8?)

[spineapple tea]

Maybe the devs were stupid.

[Noomerdoomer]

I'm just saying why put bonus areas in a game. That it's gonna take 20 years for people to figure out how to get to them. What's the point of them? I'm just talking about them in general. I'm not talking about any particular one period I just think it's kind of crazy you put a secret in your game that no 1 can get to, and that really does nothing for you once you get it other than give you credit for getting it. I'm just curious why the developers put them in there in the first place and put them in such obscure. Hard to get 2 places that require some magic to make happen?

[spineapple tea]

1 minute ago, Noomerdoomer said:

I'm just saying why put bonus areas in a game. That it's gonna take 20 years for people to figure out how to get to them. What's the point of them? I'm just talking about them in general. I'm not talking about any particular one period I just think it's kind of crazy you put a secret in your game that no 1 can get to, and that really does nothing for you once you get it other than give you credit for getting it. I'm just curious why the developers put them in there in the first place and put them in such obscure. Hard to get 2 places that require some magic to make happen?

They put bonus areas in the game for people to find. The bonus areas that take 20 years to find are mistakes. MAP15's secret involving a pain elemental spawning a lost soul on top of you to push you down into the secret sector was not the intended way of activating it despite what John Romero says; in reality the sector with the tagged secret just needed to be a bit larger so the player origin would collide with it.

[Mr Masker]

8 minutes ago, spineapple tea said:

Maybe the devs were stupid.

Is there a lore reason for this?

[Merry Widow]

Because they are the devs. They can do whatever they want, stupid or not.

[Jayextee]

Perhaps secrets and their end-of-level total were intended more as a bonus to players; an afterthought; and not the all-encompassing unwritten hard-goal modern Gamers™ and their FOMO seem to think they are.

[D4NUK1]

Why does't devs make the secrets visible? Are they stuppid? 

[Noomerdoomer]

Ok like the one that takes the pain elemental to find if that is not the intended way of finding it the what is because some of them are in spots that are not possible to access threw regular play then it just seems dumb to put them there at all. Also why rate in something we may never be able to get a 100% on. That as dumb as math teacher making a math test with impossible to solve problem that no matter how well you do on the rest of the test you will not be getting 100%. That is just stupid.

[Jayextee]

It was an oversight, an afterthought. Secrets are in no way mandatory, it's not as stupid as you're making out.

[roadworx]

9 minutes ago, Jayextee said:

Perhaps secrets and their end-of-level total were intended more as a bonus to players; an afterthought; and not the all-encompassing unwritten hard-goal modern Gamers™ and their FOMO seem to think they are.

NO! we have to waste our time 100%ing  E V E R Y T H I N G, even if it makes us miserable!!!!

 

1 minute ago, Noomerdoomer said:

Ok like the one that takes the pain elemental to find if that is not the intended way of finding it the what is because some of them are in spots that are not possible to access threw regular play then it just seems dumb to put them there at all. Also why rate in something we may never be able to get a 100% on. That as dumb as math teacher making a math test with impossible to solve problem that no matter how well you do on the rest of the test you will not be getting 100%. That is just stupid.

they were rushing to make all the maps in time for the release of the game using primitive software, and typically you make mistakes when you do that. shit happens. 100%ing everything isn't required anyways, so idk what the big deal is

[OniriA]

I only read the thread title but,

 

[No-Man Baugh]

That same guy who made the original Doom Challenges Deemed Impossible video also made a vid about one specific impossible secret:

Spoiler alert: it's broken because Romero underestimated how high and how far a player needs to be over a secret tagged sector in order for it to count, and he didn't bother testing for that specific secret

[SiFi270]

They deliberately included inaccessible secrets for the same reason you deliberately included all those typos in your posts.

[Noomerdoomer]

1 hour ago, roadworx said:

NO! we have to waste our time 100%ing  E V E R Y T H I N G, even if it makes us miserable!!!!

 

they were rushing to make all the maps in time for the release of the game using primitive software, and typically you make mistakes when you do that. shit happens. 100%ing everything isn't required anyways, so idk what the big deal is

I am idiot I should have thout of that and that makes a lot of sense.  But you think by time they got to like final doom they would have known how impossible they where and removed them so they did not detract from the game. 

[TheMagicMushroomMan]

44 minutes ago, Noomerdoomer said:

I am idiot I should have thout of that and that makes a lot of sense.  But you think by time they got to like final doom they would have known how impossible they where and removed them so they did not detract from the game. 

Final Doom was not created by id software.

 

Back then very few people cared too much about not being able to 100% every map. Because of the fact that everyone at id software had the intelligence of an inbred troglodyte, they didn't stop to consider that people might care about it in the future. They were mistakes, it's very simple.

[natashanightmare]

These guys know how to find secrets

[Noomerdoomer]

Didn't know final doom was not made by ID. Also the comment still stands because by the time final doom came to stores they could have realized the mistake and removed them. 

 If they where so dumb at ID how come we are the ones still discussing their creation 30 years later in a forum dedicated to their game instead them in a forum discussing our creation.

[Lila Feuer]

34 minutes ago, Noomerdoomer said:

If they where so dumb at ID how come we are the ones still discussing their creation 30 years later in a forum dedicated to their game instead them in a forum discussing our creation.

 

My goth, we've been checked and mated.

[Paf]

2 hours ago, Noomerdoomer said:

Didn't know final doom was not made by ID. Also the comment still stands because by the time final doom came to stores they could have realized the mistake and removed them. 

 If they where so dumb at ID how come we are the ones still discussing their creation 30 years later in a forum dedicated to their game instead them in a forum discussing our creation.

what?

i think i know how this is supposed to be read, but i still don't understand the point you're making.

 

what does saying "how come us discussing a 30 year old game in a forum dedicated to that game instead of them discussing our maps (or this forum) in another forum" try to communicate?

[No-Man Baugh]

44 minutes ago, Paf said:

what does saying "how come us discussing a 30 year old game in a forum dedicated to that game instead of them discussing our maps (or this forum) in another forum" try to communicate?

I think they just took magicmushroom man's sarcasm very literally

3 hours ago, TheMagicMushroomMan said:

Because of the fact that everyone at id software had the intelligence of an inbred troglodyte, they didn't stop to consider that people might care about it in the future. They were mistakes, it's very simple.

 

[Maximum Matt]

I dunno, the E4M3 torch secrets seemed pretty deliberate, I think ol' Mr. Green was a bit ahead of all us when it came to void glides and stuff - after all, he left a clue by spamming all those secret sectors in the staircase nearby, if that ain't him winking at us I don't know what is.  All that needs to happen is for someone to work out how to glide back IN to a level FROM the void, and be able to do it multiple times, and that one's dusted.  

And as for map30 Pacifist, that one's only a matter of time

Edited October 23, 2023 by Maximum Matt

[Flytrap]

Bugs.

Those were bugs and people making videos about these are acting like those are intentional.
I dont mind them pretending for fun these were intentionally super hard secrets, but it leads to this which is why im not a fan of people doing that

[DoomPlayer00]

Like mappers today, the devs then made mistakes either due to inexperience with the tools provided or due to lack of proper playtesting (sometimes both).

[JustAthel]

Because the tools they had back then had some nasty bugs that would mark sectors as secrets when it wasn't meant to be. Plus, Doom II was more rushed out the door than original Doom I.

[RHhe82]

5 hours ago, TheMagicMushroomMan said:

Back then very few people cared too much about not being able to 100% every map.

 

This. I think iD didn't feel the need to put too much effort into ensuring 100%-tibility of maps, because back in the day tallies were only tallies, we looked at the score and moved on. The higher the better, but casual players, I believe, didn't care that much, and the only challenge was to finish the game somehow on UV, and that's it. Doom wasn't a niche game (but, in fact, *the* game "everyone" played at one time), and it's only the us handful that have remained throughout the years, that indeed care about specific challenges regarding Doom.

[LuzRoja29]

i dont understand anything of this

[Individualised]

8 hours ago, spineapple tea said:

despite what John Romero says

He was being sarcastic, and even clarified later that it was a mapping error.