What do IWAD's provide for source engines?

[Flytrap]

For example, one of my favourite things related to doom ever, is a total conversion called HocusDoom (because the game its based on is one of my childhood favourites), and it requires doom2.wad to play, even though it uses literally none of the enemies, weapons, levels, or even sprites. So, why is doom2 needed then?

Chex Quest is in a rather similar situation and thats an IWAD by itself, so whats the difference behind the curtains when both of these are using custom everything and yet only one is a standalone thing

Edited October 23, 2023 by Flytrap

[Foxpup]

If you're asking how IWADs work in general, that's pretty straightforward: they provide all game resources not provided by the mod or TC itself in its PWAD(s). If you're asking why a particular TC is packaged as a PWAD requiring the Doom 2 IWAD instead of as a standalone IWAD, that is a question best asked of the TC's author in the WAD Discussion forum. Possibly it doesn't use all the custom resources you think: if even a single resource (no matter how insignificant) comes from the original Doom 2, it would be copyright infringement to include it in the TC and thus it must be provided by the original game's IWAD.

[Dark Pulse]

3 hours ago, Flytrap said:

Chex Quest is in a rather similar situation and thats an IWAD by itself, so whats the difference behind the curtains when both of these are using custom everything and yet only one is a standalone thing

Chex Quest is actually extremely naughty: It's actually a modified Ultimate Doom IWAD.

 

While most of the graphics, sounds, etc. have been altered or stripped, if you open it up in something like SLADE, you will actually see the remaining maps for E1M6-E1M9, plus all the maps for E2, E3, and E4, completely unaltered. The WAD was modified with DEUTEX, and the executable was hacked to end the game after the fifth level. You can even use level warp cheats and play "Chexified" versions of these levels, but be warned, you will encounter invisible and silent enemies and the like eventually!

 

So theoretically, everyone who had Chex Quest had an (illegal) copy of Ultimate Doom. I've heard rumors that id Software was aware of this, but the optics of suing Chex would be quite bad, so they never did.

 

To get back to your question regarding HocusDoom, it could well still be using something. Even if it's using only the PAYPAL, it could count as needing doom2.wad. Or it could simply be that the modder has no idea you could make an entirely standalone mod.

Edited October 23, 2023 by Dark Pulse

[Lila Feuer]

@Dark Pulse This cracks me up so bad I had no fuckin' idea they did that LOL.

If you cheat you enter the FORBIDDEN ZONE! BEGONE!

Edited October 23, 2023 by Lila Feuer

[andrewj]

5 hours ago, Flytrap said:

For example, one of my favourite things related to doom ever, is a total conversion called HocusDoom (because the game its based on is one of my childhood favourites), and it requires doom2.wad to play, even though it uses literally none of the enemies, weapons, levels, or even sprites. So, why is doom2 needed then?

Most "TCs" don't replace absolutely everything, since that is pretty damn hard to do.

 

Try running it with MINIWAD as the iwad and you'll soon notice what is missing:

 

[Gez]

1 hour ago, Dark Pulse said:

The WAD was modified with DEUTEX, and the executable was hacked to end the game after the fifth level.

Hacked is not the right word, as they obtained the source code, made some changes, and recompiled. The Digital Café team were no hex edit wizards.

 

For the IWAD thing, I blame incompetence. They didn't have all that much time to lern how 2 doom good, so they took something that worked (the IWAD), modified what they needed to modify, and forgot to clean out what they didn't need to keep.

[Flytrap]

13 hours ago, Dark Pulse said:

Chex Quest is actually extremely naughty: It's actually a modified Ultimate Doom IWAD.

 

While most of the graphics, sounds, etc. have been altered or stripped, if you open it up in something like SLADE, you will actually see the remaining maps for E1M6-E1M9, plus all the maps for E2, E3, and E4, completely unaltered. The WAD was modified with DEUTEX, and the executable was hacked to end the game after the fifth level. You can even use level warp cheats and play "Chexified" versions of these levels, but be warned, you will encounter invisible and silent enemies and the like eventually!

 

So theoretically, everyone who had Chex Quest had an (illegal) copy of Ultimate Doom. I've heard rumors that id Software was aware of this, but the optics of suing Chex would be quite bad, so they never did.

 

To get back to your question regarding HocusDoom, it could well still be using something. Even if it's using only the PAYPAL, it could count as needing doom2.wad. Or it could simply be that the modder has no idea you could make an entirely standalone mod.

Okay, thats really funny

Whats PAYPAL in the context of DOOM?
 

11 hours ago, andrewj said:

Most "TCs" don't replace absolutely everything, since that is pretty damn hard to do.

 

Try running it with MINIWAD as the iwad and you'll soon notice what is missing:

 

GZDoom doesnt recognize it as an iwad, at all.

Edited October 23, 2023 by Flytrap

[Gez]

12 minutes ago, Flytrap said:

Whats PAYPAL in the context of DOOM?

Nothing. That was a typo for PLAYPAL, which is the game's palette.

[Dark Pulse]

3 hours ago, Gez said:

Nothing. That was a typo for PLAYPAL, which is the game's palette.

Fucking phone autocorrect strikes again. Thanks Gez.

[wesleyjohnson]

HocusDoom must be a PWAD, as it modifies the loaded maps of Doom2.wad.

There are many other things in the doom2.wad besides the maps and the monsters.

They probably replaced stuff, during development, bit by bit, and it would take an extended examination to actually discover what they had not replaced.

It would be an exercise in obscure details to remember something that they probably missed.

Probably was not worth the trouble, so they left it as a PWAD.

 

 

To play ChexQuest properly requires some modifications in the Doom engine.  It has some capabilities that are not in standard Doom.

Play it with a fully capable ChexQuest engine.

The DoomLegacy port has considerable code to support ChexQuest, like the fireflies.

Edited October 24, 2023 by wesleyjohnson

[Murdoch]

It's also worth adding that unless the mod is made for a port that supports custom iWADs and the author makes the WAD an IWAD, the port is going to want an IWAD like doom2.wad, even in the unlikely event the PWAD replaces literally every resource.

Edited October 24, 2023 by Murdoch

[Flytrap]

20 hours ago, Murdoch said:

It's also worth adding that unless the mod is made for a port that supports custom iWADs and the author makes the WAD an IWAD, the port is going to want an IWAD like doom2.wad, even in the unlikely event the PWAD replaces literally every resource.

Ah. Good to know

Thanks