If you had been involved in the development of Doom and Doom II

[Psychagogue]

what would you have done differently? 

 

Some user mentioned in a previous thread I made that Doom II levels like "Tricks and Traps" and "Barrels 'O Fun" would've been better suited as secret levels rather than part of the main game progression, and the idea resonated with me and made me think what changes would you have made if you had been involved in creating Doom and Doom II? How different would the games have been from what we have if you had been part of the development team?

Personally, I would have cut the cyberdemon and spider mastermind completely from Doom II (as well as the cyberdemon in "Warrens") and perhaps come up with some different, semi-boss monsters in their place. I've always felt that "Tower of Babel" and "Dis" (especially with the choices of music) really managed to create this sense that these were going to be some epic showdowns. Having them become (semi)regular enemies in Doom II just kind of killed that whole feeling for me and in some ways reduced their threat level considerably compared to how they came across in the first Doom. As much as I like to see the two of them infight in "Gotcha", I would've made both of them one-shot enemies and never have them reappear again. 

 

But that's just me. What would your versions of the games have looked like? I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts.

Edited October 24, 2023 by Psychagogue

[Amaruψ]

Assured quality control.

[Cutman 999]

- Delete nirvana from the game.

- Delete the pain elemental from the game.

- Had better play testers.

- Not let Sandy make over half of doom 2 just because Carmack was too occupied with quake.

- Not designing levels for deathmatch and single player alike. (Only exception being entryway, way better in DM than single)

[Murdoch]

I would have bought the team together and said...

 

"OK, what the hell am I doing here? I don't know jack shit about game design. I'm 12 years old for God's sake."

Then left while they all looked on bewildered wondering who the hell I was and how I got into the office.

Edited October 24, 2023 by Murdoch

[Hellektronic]

Personally I think Sandy Petersen was a godless little urchin of a designer, and I would've probably redone or replaced most of his contributions just for poor taste and shallow gimmicks. But having said that, Doom 2 being how it was ultimately influenced a lot of gaming, and I'd argue games like Serious Sam only exist today because of that. So eh. Even the worst parts of Doom and Doom 2 had good outcomes.

It's no secret that I don't like how he designed many of the Inferno and Doom 2 maps, and I think Thy Flesh Consumed was kinda like an emulation of Petersen's mapping style. A game ideally shouldn't feel too much like a game. You still want some degree of immersion, not just... ya know, arcade game style obnoxious gimmicks. Petersen was addicted to poor taste and inescapable deathtraps... almost like slapstick, Japanese game show kinda stuff. I don't really mesh with that ideology in gaming.

That ideology was heavily channeled in Doom Eternal, and it also bothers me for that same reason.

Edited October 24, 2023 by Hellektronic

[maxmanium]

Honestly I'd focus on the engine bugs. I really don't know how some things never got patched.

[Hellektronic]

Just now, maxmanium said:

Honestly I'd focus on the engine bugs. I really don't know how some things never got patched.

Probably because John Carmack was possessed by aliens like Nikola Tesla when he was writing the engine, lol. To ask anybody of that era to proofread his work would be like asking a dog to proofread an essay on ancient religions. The reality is, he probably deemed the bugs inconsequential. And back then if he didn't fix it, who would even know how to?

[Murdoch]

16 minutes ago, Hellektronic said:

Probably because John Carmack was possessed by aliens like Nikola Tesla when he was writing the engine, lol. To ask anybody of that era to proofread his work would be like asking a dog to proofread an essay on ancient religions. The reality is, he probably deemed the bugs inconsequential. And back then if he didn't fix it, who would even know how to?

 

Given that programmers like Lee Killough and other members of TeamTNT put paid to a large number of the engine bugs and limitations less than 10 years later with Boom and later MBF, this is not an accurate statement at all. Carmack was and is a superb coder, but his work was by no means unintelligible to others. Lee in particular was operating on another level when it came to understanding and improving Doom's code.

Edited October 25, 2023 by Murdoch

[DNSKILL5]

I’d just be happy to get a share of the profits. Wouldn’t change the game in any way.

[thelamp]

Episode selection for Doom II rather than a continuous campaign

 

Increase the plasmagun's ammo efficiency just a little bit so it's not so useless compared to the BFG

 

pump shotgun changed to slot 2

pistol changed to slot 4 ('behind' the chaingun)

 

lite-amp goggles work by increasing brightness by one full light level. Effect stacks as you pickup more of them

 

add flying imps to the enemy roster

 

as far as maps go I would've wanted Tom Hall to stick around. He and Sandy working together could've produced much better maps than Sandy alone imo (as evidenced by Refueling base being a good map)

[Chezza]

• Break Doom 2 into chapters just like Doom 1.
• Have a unique Boss battle per end of chapter, one of which is icon of sin.
• Reduce 4 to 6 maps, maybe turn them into secret levels.
• Change pistol into a heavy revolver with own ammo type.
• Reduce the complexity of map navigation. More linear progress forwards but side paths and especially secrets to be more abstract
• Make pain elementals bite or shoot flamethrower

[Rudolph]

Make Doom II use the episodic format and world map-style intermission screen, fix the monsters' blood color and give every map an unique track.

Edited October 25, 2023 by Rudolph

[jazzmaster9]

1 hour ago, Hellektronic said:

Personally I think Sandy Petersen was a godless little urchin of a designer, and I would've probably redone or replaced most of his contributions just for poor taste and shallow gimmicks. But having said that, Doom 2 being how it was ultimately influenced a lot of gaming, and I'd argue games like Serious Sam only exist today because of that. So eh. Even the worst parts of Doom and Doom 2 had good outcomes.

It's no secret that I don't like how he designed many of the Inferno and Doom 2 maps, and I think Thy Flesh Consumed was kinda like an emulation of Petersen's mapping style. A game ideally shouldn't feel too much like a game. You still want some degree of immersion, not just... ya know, arcade game style obnoxious gimmicks. Petersen was addicted to poor taste and inescapable deathtraps... almost like slapstick, Japanese game show kinda stuff. I don't really mesh with that ideology in gaming.

That ideology was heavily channeled in Doom Eternal, and it also bothers me for that same reason.

Im the opposite where i love the Gamey and Arcade aspects of Doom 2 (and Eternal) and would make sure that is refined to where it feels fun and engaging to play.

It only feels like "poor taste" (what ever that means in this context) because the ideas arent fleshed out yet 

 

In the case of Doom 2 that wasnt an excuse to make the maps look ugly, so i would atleast ensure the maps were still visually pleasing. 

I would have asked for extra dev time to pretty up some maps or even make new textures to make those city maps feel like cities

Edited October 25, 2023 by jazzmaster9

[Edward850]

I would do absolutely nothing because the perceived problems with Doom2 are more likely to have been caused by the natural evolution of its development and required timeline rather than conscious mistakes that placing another person on the team wouldn't magically change.

[LuzRoja29]

i would keep the doom bible lore and add more power ups, enemies, up to 40 maps, and more guns

[JBerg]

fixed the infinitely tall monster issue

[pavera]

i would have done everything perfectly, unlike the people who made it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[DynamiteKaitorn]

Work with the ID mappers at the time who could teach me how to use the OG tools and like-wise I could help play test and assist in mapping for them. I'd also make sure some of the worst maps at the very least get a proper brush over.

 

Oh and if it was possible, change the final boss.

[Murdoch]

45 minutes ago, pavera said:

i would have done everything perfectly, unlike the people who made it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Are you some kind of ethereal being from a higher plane of reality? 

[bobstremglav]

First of all, I would keep Tom Hall in id with his Doom Bible

[TheMagicMushroomMan]

I'd just use their cocaine and leave.

[Lila Feuer]

4 hours ago, Cutman 999 said:

- Delete the pain elemental from the game.

 

[Kinsie]

Probably wind up inadvertently getting someone arrested for breaking child labor laws because I was eight years old in 1994.

[Classic SSG Enjoyer]

I would make the gameplay like Plutonia-ish with dozens of revs, archies, and chaingunners!

Edited October 25, 2023 by Classic SSG Enjoyer

[Sonikkumania]

Make sound design changes. Goodbye DSPISTOL. 

[Shakariki Heisenberg]

i didnt exist in 1993 but if i did i was in id then i would prob just point out some bugs in levels and in the engine(playtest). also remove the pain elemental
and just *profit*

[ClumsyCryptid]

More combining of chaingunners and archviles for UV only.
 

[DankMetal]

There's only one thing i would've changed from the game.

Change all of the doom ost with AxCx songs, that's a better representation of hell than anything made by some sellout thrash band from the 90's!!!

[ReaperAA]

If there are some things I would change, those would be:

• Ensure Doom is designed with 320x240 resolution @30fps tic rate, instead of 320x200 resolution @35fps tic rate. That would mean that all in-game graphics would have 1:1 pixels. And also 30fps would interpolate better with framerates such as 60, 120 and 240 fps (since all those are perfect multiples of 30).
• Faster weapon switching. About how much it is in say Minicharge mod or 1000 Lines 3 CP.
• Make invulnerability tinting less obnoxious.
• Somehow make pistol not useless once we get the chaingun. For example, make pistol fire accurate and faster, like how it is in Eviternity while making chaingun even faster, but also inaccurate at longer distances. So each weapon has it's use.
• Somehow make plasma gun not useless once we get the BFG. Either make BFG consume somewhere between 60 to 80 cells per shot, Or make plasma shots deal more damage.
• Make regular shotgun fire a bit faster (like it does in 1000 Lines 3) and also maybe make it fire 1 or 2 more pellets to make it a bit competitive against the SSG and also be able to 1-shot imps with more consistency.

[Fireseth]

3 hours ago, Chezza said:

Break Doom 2 into chapters just like Doom 1.

 

3 hours ago, Rudolph said:

Make Doom II use the episodic format and world map-style intermission screen...

TRUE!!! I think I've seen a few modifications that add episodic format into DOOM II, but they were always low-effort or had poor quality intermission screens. But besides that, it definitely should've been there in the original DOOM II in the first place.