What if the beta, hitscan arachnotrons were the ones in the final game?

[Antiquated]

The arachnotrons in beta Doom II were essentially mini spidermasterminds, including their hitscan attack instead of the plasma. If these were the versions in the final game, how do you think they'd be perceived? How would they be used in old and modern mapping? How unpopular would they be?

[Gez]

Hitscan arachnotrons have appeared in a few mods, the earliest I remember being Scimitar.

[volleyvalley]

It would've been a much more tankier and more obnoxious Chaingunner. 

[thiccyosh]

They'd probably just be very clunky Chaingunners with more health.

 

To be honest I don't think there would be much use for them in both old and new mapping styles, unless somebody found a very niche use for them I haven't heard about.

[Antiquated]

1 minute ago, thiccyosh said:

They'd probably just be very clunky Chaingunners with more health.

 

To be honest I don't think there would be much use for them in both old and new mapping styles, unless somebody found a very niche use for them I haven't heard about.

 

Maybe as an in-between between chaingunner and SM turrets to like, take up more ammo and dedication to remove than chaingunner but not realistically impossible to do so like SM would be, still would be limited though.

[thiccyosh]

8 minutes ago, Antiquated said:

Maybe as an in-between between chaingunner and SM turrets to like, take up more ammo and dedication to remove than chaingunner but not realistically impossible to do so like SM would be, still would be limited though.

 

That's no match against the almighty Chaingunner dispenser or Casali-Viles literally most maps use if they need chaingunning turrets :P

Edited October 30, 2023 by thiccyosh
typo

[Kwisior]

They are present in Struggle - Antaresian Legacy, so you can see for yourself.

Edited October 30, 2023 by Kwisior

[Lila Feuer]

A terrifyingly redundant enemy.

[baja blast rd.]

Some mapsets have used hitscanning spiders. Purely in gameplay terms, they don't feel especially remarkable as enemies (Rowdy Rudy 2's tiny spider mastermind is hilarious though).

 

33 minutes ago, volleyvalley said:

It would've been a much more tankier and more obnoxious Chaingunner. 

 

In real maps, they tend to be less dangerous than chaingunners because they eat up a lot of space, are worse at sneaking up on you, aren't that mobile, get hung up on infighting (which is a lot more relevant than with the usual fragile hitscanners), etc. One chaingunning spider would be more dangerous than one chaingunner, but the relevant comparison is more a few to several chaingunners to one chaingun spider, since the chaingunners are more fragile and can be used more frequently. There are even many situations where a single chaingunner might amount to more danger than a chaingun spider, like if you have a chaingunner roaming around that catches you by surprise.

 

thiccyosh described them as 'clunky chaingunners' which feels right. Their clunkiness makes it harder for them to be 'obnoxiously' dangerous unless an area has literally no cover or hiding. You can design dangerous setups around them, but that takes more effort so unlike with chaingunners they are less often accidentally overbearing. 

[Li'l devil]

What about cyberdemons with hitscan rockets? We need to have that!

[Dimon12321]

It would push monster infighting to a new level, because, like Masterminds, groups of hitscanner archnotrons would end up shooting each other, even if they wouldn't have so big hitboxes 

Edited October 30, 2023 by Dimon12321

[Klear]

1 hour ago, Li'l devil said:

What about cyberdemons with hitscan rockets? We need to have that!

 

IoS with a hitscan telefrag monster spawner.

[Async Unicorn]

That would be bad generally, maybe some of the experienced mappers would get them to work properly in their maps, but it still sounds meh, just like the old lost souls with hitscan attack as well.

[Roebloz]

They'd have the same redundancy problem as their Mama in F tier, but arguably worse since they would just be chaingunners with a bigger hitbox.

[Graf Zahl]

3 hours ago, Gez said:

Hitscan arachnotrons have appeared in a few mods, the earliest I remember being Scimitar.

 

I found them annoying enough in that mod, so no, thank you!

 

[Scypek2]

In my Deadliest Demolition, I replaced arachnotrons with zombie tanks, which are pretty large and have plenty of health, but they're fast, their hitbox is actually only the size of a cacodemon, and they have zero pain chance, much like the boss enemies from Wolf3D. They're still easily dealt with using rockets or same-species infighting, but they're considerably scarier to deal with than a simple wide high-HP chaingunner would be.

 

3 hours ago, baja blast rd. said:

(Rowdy Rudy 2's tiny spider mastermind is hilarious though)

 

My favorite thing about RR2's spider chaingunners is how much more satisfying it feels to obtain a chaingun this way. We need more mods with enemies who drop their weapons.

[DoomGappy]

The fun is in seeing the projectiles and dodging them. Thank God whoever turned that decision over.

[plums]

@cannonball's Return to Hadron E4, which I helped playtest, uses them to good effect. The key is in their placement, as if you put two of them anywhere near each other it's likely they'll end up hitting each other and infighting. They do make good temporary allies since they'll stunlock pretty much any other enemy besides the cyberdemon.

 

It's good that Doom 2 uses the plasma variant though, they're a nice and versatile addition to the roster.

[OniriA]

4 hours ago, Antiquated said:

What if the beta, hitscan arachnotrons were th..

 

They would suck ass.

 

And balls.

 

^{And they wouldn't distinguish themselves as a unique monster that way, so I'm glad they didn't.}

Edited October 30, 2023 by OniriA

[Lucius Wooding]

Honestly it'd be better to just turn the SM into an arachnotron-sized version of itself. The mobility alone is enough of an upgrade, and it'd be very difficult to hit with attacks from range or try to peekaboo shoot. That'd be a very nasty boss monster that couldn't be so easily stuck.

[Murdoch]

6 hours ago, Lila Feuer said:

A terrifyingly redundant enemy.

 

Agreed. It would have been a stupid decision to keep them that would have likely been justifiably criticised. 

[Amaruψ]

Would've lessened the enemy variety, that's all.

[Maximum Matt]

8 hours ago, Li'l devil said:

What about cyberdemons with hitscan rockets? We need to have that!

Aw HELL no

[OniriA]

8 hours ago, Li'l devil said:

What about cyberdemons with hitscan rockets? We need to have that!

 

No, we don't.

Edited October 30, 2023 by OniriA

[Naarok0fkor]

You should try my hitscan spider...

https://www.moddb.com/mods/guntoberfest/downloads/naarok0fkor-guntoberfest-2023

[Gothic]

There's also the Chaingun Spider by Captain Toenail
 

[Rudolph]

It is odd how Id made the Arachnotron to be a mini-Spider Mastermind, yet did not try to do something similar with the Cyberdemon.

 

Not that I am complaining, mind you.

[Tycitron]

Speaking of this... has anybody tried re-creating the beta Arachnotron sprites? where it was literally just a scaled down Spider Mastermind with a chaingun? 

[Li'l devil]

59 minutes ago, Tycitron said:

When you get caught drinking alcohol by your mom as a kid.

[OniriA]

1 hour ago, Tycitron said:

 

When you have to do your homework but your mom finds out you're watching porn instead.