Adding Custom Decorative Objects (Vanilla)

[Amaruψ]

I've browsed around threads and questions relative to my problem, but I haven't gotten a definitive answer, or at least one that I could be satisfied with. Chances are, I haven't been looking in correct places, but I digress. Anyways...

 

I've got a few decorative sprites that I'd like to add into the game, such as trees, torches, corpses, etc. Problem is, I'm not sure what's the procedure. The answers I've seen floating around either suggest simply replacing an existing sprite, which I'm less than less willing to do. Is there any possibility to include any new decorative objects without replacing any existing ones? Any prod in the correct direction would be appreciated.

[Gez]

55 minutes ago, Amaruψ said:

The answers I've seen floating around either suggest simply replacing an existing sprite, which I'm less than less willing to do.

Are you unwilling enough to do that that you'd consider dropping the vanilla requirement? Because that's basically the only choice you have.

 

Now you might be able to get away with using a sprite like SKULL0 because vanilla SKUL sprites only go up to K. There's also the good old unused SMT2A0. But you'll still need to use a vanilla thing to modify. The dead lost soul is a good choice, as well as the redundant gibbed player, but for more than two new objects, you'll have to sacrifice something.

[Amaruψ]

2 minutes ago, Gez said:

Are you unwilling enough to do that that you'd consider dropping the vanilla requirement? Because that's basically the only choice you have.

 

Given the project's strictly going to be vanilla only, I've got my hands tied for the moment, unfortunately. Oh well, if that's the case then I think replacement is just going to be the key then. Thanks for the help on that, much appreciated.

[zokum]

The way Doom handles custom assets is a bit broken. Scaled sprites like you describe is one of those areas where it's impossible to add and complex to replace. In the 90s projects that replaced sprites would do that on a copy of the main wad file and you would load that one instead. You can't legally distribute the complete file, but some projects do that anyway. I would recommend against it. When it comes to changing the logic/properties of things in game, dehacked was a small tool to patch the executable and many projects would ship with a .deh file and instructions on how to change a copy of the executable. So if you want vanilla compatibility, that is what you need to do. If you aim for Chocolate Doom compatibility, it can easily load deh files since the binary deh patching isn't possible.

[Halfblind]

On 11/1/2023 at 8:52 PM, Gez said:

The dead lost soul is a good choice, as well as the redundant gibbed player, but for more than two new objects, you'll have to sacrifice something.

Also, the Bloody Mess 1 and 2 are redundant. Just choose 1 and replace it. Also, anything that has the "(blocking)" subtitle are rather redundant and useless in my opinion. Decorations that hang from the ceiling should never be blocking IMHO. They are never blocking in Heretic nor Hexen. You can just replace any of these with trees or whatever.

 

Also please note that several decoration sprites have really large blocking radiuses as opposed to similar decorations in Heretic.

[Gez]

12 minutes ago, Halfblind said:

Also, the Bloody Mess 1 and 2 are redundant.

Those are what I was referring to with

 

On jeudi 2 novembre 2023 at 3:52 AM, Gez said:

the redundant gibbed player

 

DEH #	DEH name		Ed #	DB name		SLADE name		MT_ ID		ZDoom class name
119 	Guts and Bones 		10 	Bloody mess 1 	Guts and Bones 		MT_MISC68 	GibbedMarine
120 	Guts and Bones 2 	12 	Bloody mess 2 	Guts and Bones 2 	MT_MISC69 	GibbedMarineExtra

 

[Noiser]

There's also the multiplayer fog effect, in case you don't mind losing a multiplayer-only asset.

[magicsofa]

On 11/1/2023 at 9:45 PM, Amaruψ said:

I've got a few decorative sprites that I'd like to add into the game, such as trees, torches, corpses, etc. Problem is, I'm not sure what's the procedure. The answers I've seen floating around either suggest simply replacing an existing sprite, which I'm less than less willing to do. Is there any possibility to include any new decorative objects without replacing any existing ones? Any prod in the correct direction would be appreciated.

 

You don't have to replace an existing sprite. You do have to replace a thing. Blocking corpses are the ones I always go for first because there are 4 of them and they are close together in the list :) But you can use any thing that can be placed in the map editor (it will have an ID other than -1 {do not confuse this with thing number}).

 

Sprites can easily be added to existing sprite sequences and used for whatever, and since there are a bunch of very short ones you won't run out of space any time soon. I forget what letter they can go up to but just look at the VILE sprites as they go past Z.

 

6 minutes ago, Noiser said:

There's also the multiplayer fog effect, in case you don't mind losing a multiplayer-only asset.

 

No, this can't be placed on the map and you'd also get decorations spawning every time an item respawned.

Edited November 3, 2023 by magicsofa

[Noiser]

6 minutes ago, magicsofa said:

No, this can't be placed on the map and you'd also get decorations spawning every time an item respawned.

I think you can use it by changing their number id. That's generally all it needs to place stuff on maps.

Edited November 3, 2023 by Noiser

[magicsofa]

12 minutes ago, Noiser said:

I think you can use it by changing their number id. That's generally all it needs to place stuff on maps.

 

Oh yeah I suppose you can... but then what happens when items respawn? 

[Noiser]

15 minutes ago, magicsofa said:

 

Oh yeah I suppose you can... but then what happens when items respawn? 

No idea lol
But it would be interesting to see what happens

[Worst]

So is the project vanilla compatible as in with the DOS DOOM2.EXE and all it's strict limits, or is it vanilla but limit removing?

 

What you can also consider for trees, and perhaps some other decorations, is to use midtextures instead of sprites. This probably works out better if the project is limit removing though:

Spoiler

Also to free more 'unused things' for thing replacement, you could possibly replace pillar things with sector based pillars. Same could work for some of the lamp things, etc.

Edited November 3, 2023 by Worst

[magicsofa]

You can also replace one set of keys and only use the other set in your maps :)

[andrewj]

On 11/4/2023 at 3:37 AM, magicsofa said:

Oh yeah I suppose you can... but then what happens when items respawn? 

Items only respawn in altdeath deathmatch mode (in vanilla anyway).  In the maps are for single-player, then no real issue I think.

 

Items with the MF_DROPPED flag do not respawn, so giving all items that flag in the dehacked patch should prevent any item from respawning (in theory).