Source Ports personal deal breakers

[CacoKnight]

I was wondering what some deal breakers for you guys are, here is my list:

 

1. Complevels (1, 2, 3): Vanilla (Static Limits, Mapping Limits), Limit removing, Boom, MBF, MBF21 and UDMF if possible.
2. ≥800p: modern times, modern monitors with ≥1080p resolutions, if a port only supports 400p it's going to be too grainy. This setting doesn't break any vanilla experience so it's kind of a must on today's ports IMO.
3. FOV: 90 makes me nauseous, I tried to revert back for a while but I need ≥100 settings on widescreen monitors.
4. Widescreen: kind of implied, essential for modern monitors. They all have this.
5. Hardware renderer (Direct3D, OpenGL, Vulkan): it feels fast and smooth and can produce native screen resolution. Deal breaker only on big/huge wads honestly, software rendered is THE accurate way.
6. VSync. They all have this.
7. Level stats: GZDoom 1, DOOM Retro 1, Crispy Doom 1 2. I hide it now and only show it in the automap so any kind of level stats is good. They all have this.
8. Dynamic coloring level stats: a fast glance to the stats to see which one is completed by coloring them is a cool feature. Less and less of a deal breaker, any type of level stats is just fine and maybe even less anxiety inducing.
9. Extended HUD (K: I: S:): DSDA-Doom 1 2, Nugget Doom 1 2, Woof! 1 2, International Doom 1 2. Less and less of a deal breaker, any type of level stats is just fine and maybe even less anxiety inducing.
10. Walk over/under things: while this is NOT a full deal breaker it would be awesome to just have the feature.
11. SoundFont loader: FluidSynth or whatever works. I like to have RLNDGM.sf2 (or a good SC-55 sf) consistent with all my ports. It's becoming less and less of a deal breaker, some ports don't support it and I found out that I'm not missing it at all, the OS MIDI system is just fine.

 

Some more personal observations

DOOM Stuff

Edited April 7 by CacoKnight

[Hebonky]

DSDA doom has more features than Nugget I think, and in the game files of DSDA you can crank up that FOV as high as you want!

 

A deal breaker for me is way to many settings, It's why I avoid GZDoom, because there are way too many options for me!

[CacoKnight]

On 11/2/2023 at 2:45 PM, Hebonky said:

A deal breaker for me is way to many settings, It's why I avoid GZDoom, because there are way too many options for me!

Not an expert here but I've been playing around with it for months and this is what I made for it. Maybe it'll help you decide and keep it with your ports :)

Edited November 21, 2023 by CacoKnight

[Devalaous]

Dealbreakers:

• No controller support/bad controller support. Ever since the PS1 version, ive only enjoyed this game with a controller, and most ports since then on consoles have a really good control setup thats intuitive.
• Archaic required command-line or manual filepath typing in the settings. We live in the future damn it!
• Limited resolutions. Non-native resolution games on monitors looks bad and often mucks up desktops
• No stat tracking for stuff like Doom Launcher. This is important to me because it gives my scatterbrain a clear indicator of what I have and havent finished, and the completed stats gives me a feeling ive accomplished something
• Lack of widescreen support. Its 2023 and every monitor is 16:9 or higher now, not supporting 16:9 at the minimum is backwards, especially since the official ports do.
• No xINFO of any kind. These lumps free the game from its hardcoded secret exits and level progression and enabled so much quality of life options. UMAPINFO in particular means 'Universal' so I *expect* it to have support in anything I use.

[CacoKnight]

5 minutes ago, Devalaous said:

Lack of widescreen support. Its 2023 and every monitor is 16:9 or higher now, not supporting 16:9 at the minimum is backwards, especially since the official ports do.

Nice list, I thought widescreen was implied in the 800p :) Editing my post right now, thanks.

Edited November 2, 2023 by CacoKnight

[Edward850]

41 minutes ago, CacoKnight said:

Eternity is nice too but it feels not optimized at all, I test it occasionally for Eternity only wads.

In what way is Eternity "not optimized"? I've noticed you haven't filed any bug reports related to performance or otherwised asked for assistance in the matter.

Edited November 2, 2023 by Edward850

[CacoKnight]

6 minutes ago, Edward850 said:

In what way is Eternity "not optimized"? I've noticed you haven't filed any bug reports related to performance or questioned about it.

Well, again I'm not an expert in any way but it feels that's not "smooth", like it's permanently stuck on <60fps mode, the general movements are sluggish. I always test with 0/unlimited FPS and/or VSync on if there is an option also, didn't seem to make much of a difference. GZDoom has the same issue on big maps.

Edited November 2, 2023 by CacoKnight

[Edward850]

7 minutes ago, CacoKnight said:

Well, again I'm not an expert in any way but it feels that's not "smooth", like it's permanently stuck on <60fps mode, the general movements are sluggish. I always test with 0/unlimited FPS and/or VSync on if there is an option also, didn't seem to make much of a difference. 

Do you have any framerate monitoring software (you can also just use d_drawfps from the dev console)? What kind of CPU do you have? What resolution are you running it at? Are you running a devbuild and have you enabled multithreaded rendering?

Edited November 2, 2023 by Edward850

[CacoKnight]

8 minutes ago, Edward850 said:

Do you have any framerate monitoring software? What kind of CPU do you have? What resolution are you running it at? Have you enabled multithreaded rendering?

I tested it only 3-4 times with Heartland (amazing wad), no framerate software, i7-8700K, RTX 2700 Turbo, 144Hz 32" 2k monitor and no idea if I tried multithreaded rendering, I think I did but I will give it another try for sure, if this fixes my issue with Eternity I will certainly keep it in my list.

Edited November 2, 2023 by CacoKnight

[Firedust]

My dealbreaker is that I ain't installing more than the 5 sourceports I already have installed on my computer.

I got Zandronum, Odamex, PrBoom, GZDoom, and Chocolate Doom. This pretty much has me covered for 99% of the wads out there, especially with dsdahacked having been integrated to GZDoom in the recent stable build. Installing any more would be crazy because I hate tweaking and configuring settings, and it's a pain in the ass to get everything to run the way I want it to. I also have Doom 64 remaster on Steam, and I will get to setting that up eventually, because we've got some delicious Doom 64 wads made by the lovely community.
 

[Edward850]

7 minutes ago, CacoKnight said:

I tested it only 3-4 times with Heartland (amazing wad), no framerate software, i7-8700K, RTX 2700 Turbo, 144Hz 32" 2k monitor and no idea if I tried multithreaded rendering, how do I enable this? I think I did but I will give it another try for sure, if this fixes my issue with Eternity I will certainly keep it in my list.

 

Mentioning Heartland at the start would have helped, it was basically the reason the multithreaded renderer was born. Simply grab the latest devbuild, and you'll find the thread count option in the second page of the video options. This is best set to the number of physical CPU cores you have (I.e if you have hyperthreading, you set it to half of your logical thread count, so 6 on your cpu).

 

Ideally this option should be automatic, but it's rather power hungry on portable systems plus CPU configurations aren't very clear since Intel started doing their hybrid performance chips.

Edited November 2, 2023 by Edward850

[Alaux]

59 minutes ago, CacoKnight said:

I also noticed that Nugget has occasional black spots on some wads which DSDA doesn't, not a deal breaker but not sure what's going on, maybe it's the MBF/Woof engine? For example on AD MORTEM right in the beginning close to the far right grave and even in E1M1 when you go back to run to get the last secret you can see a black line to the left, maybe @Alaux can check this? 

Is this the Ad Mortem spot?

Spoiler

 

If so, that's just an issue with sprite drawing (the sprite is larger than the grave hole it's in), which I assume isn't present in DSDA if you're using OpenGL.

 

As for the E1M1 spot, was it a spot or a line/trail? If the latter, it's probably just a slime trail. Not sure if DSDA fixes those, but I'd assume that it does.

Edited November 2, 2023 by Alaux

[CacoKnight]

2 minutes ago, Edward850 said:

 

Mentioning Heartland at the start would have helped, it was basically the reason the multithreaded renderer was born. Simply grab the latest devbuild, and you'll find the thread count option in the second page of the video options. This is best set to the number of physical CPU cores you have (I.e if you have hyperthreading, you set it to half of your logical thread count).

Well, of course I try a source port new to me with a wad that's made ONLY for that source port, I will try again in a bit thank you.

[CacoKnight]

6 hours ago, Alaux said:

Is this the Ad Mortem spot?

  Reveal hidden contents

 

If so, that's just an issue with sprite drawing, which I assume isn't present in DSDA if you're using OpenGL.

 

As for the E1M1 spot, was it a spot or a line/trail? If the latter, it's probably just a slime trail. Not sure if DSDA fixes those, but I'd assume that it does.

That's exactly the spot yes! On E1M1 it's a vertical line to the left.

edit:

@AlauxI loaded it really quick to try to get that line but it only appears for a split of a second right when you turn around from running back there, I had to try a few times to see it and ..don't mind the cheats :)

So, I actually couldn't get the line in the screenshot but it appears inside that yellow spot (and yes, this is Nugget, I changed the bar colors to make it look like DSDA).

 

 

Also wait, Nugget doesn't use OpenGL? How the hell it's so damn fast?

Edited November 3, 2023 by CacoKnight

[Async Unicorn]

I use DSDA Doom for anything and GZDoom for (G)ZDoom wads because there's not so many options.

DSDA Doom is my port of choice because it's stable, minimalistic, up-to-date and compatible.

I can play in my native 1080p resolution with 75 FPS without any lags, without messing around with tons of features, without worrying that it doesn't support something (DSDA Doom literally supports almost everything), without feeling that it's not Doom at all (because of its compability with demos, bugs and original behavior), without worrying that it can crash (in Woof there were a lot of crashes when I reloaded saves frequently or when I simply switched between MIDI players).

At first my favorite port was Woof and then Nugget Doom, because they stay more to Doom roots, I still love them, but nowadays I can't stand 400p resolution because it hurts my eyes and if I play in Nugget in higher resolution than 400p - then it loses its zest for me.

 

There's also exclusive Edge or Eternity wads, but honestly I'm not interested in those ports and wads, so, yeah.

 

UPD:

Also, yeah, you're right, though it's a matter of habit, I can stand 90 FOV, but 100 FOV is more preferable for me in games.

Sadly, I'm the one with nausea from small FOVs, so it's important for me!

Edited November 3, 2023 by Vanilla+Unicorn

[Alaux]

1 minute ago, Vanilla+Unicorn said:

in Woof there were a lot of crashes when I reloaded saves frequently

FWIW, I'm pretty sure that those crashes were fixed.

[Argent Agent]

Dealbreakers
-The port in question is closed-source

-The port in question has little-to-no ongoing development
-The port in question has questionable affiliations
-The port in question has no real community or has a very fragmented community (especially applies to multiplayer-compatible ports)

-The port in question has a terrible or questionable community (mainly with respect to multiplayer)

-No MBF21 support

Not Dealbreakers if a port lacks, but things that greatly encourage me to use a port
-Demo support

-Multiplayer support

-OPL2/3 emulation support (with multiple chips emulation support)
-DECORATE support

-3D-Floor/bridges support

[Async Unicorn]

2 minutes ago, Alaux said:

FWIW, I'm pretty sure that those crashes were fixed.

It may be, I didn't test saves crashes in latest versions, but MIDI player crashes are still there, unfornutately, =(

Edited November 2, 2023 by Vanilla+Unicorn

[No-Man Baugh]

-No stat exporting options (for Doom Launcher and the like)

-Shitty looking specters

 

Simple as

[CacoKnight]

24 minutes ago, Edward850 said:

 

Mentioning Heartland at the start would have helped, it was basically the reason the multithreaded renderer was born. Simply grab the latest devbuild, and you'll find the thread count option in the second page of the video options. This is best set to the number of physical CPU cores you have (I.e if you have hyperthreading, you set it to half of your logical thread count, so 6 on your cpu).

 

Ideally this option should be automatic, but it's rather power hungry on portable systems plus CPU configurations aren't very clear since Intel started doing their hybrid performance chips.

This is much MUCH better, lots of options and sometimes people just try the default settings for 1-2 times and close if it doesn't feel right but the multithreaded renderer works wonders. Editing my first post thank you.

[ceski]

27 minutes ago, Vanilla+Unicorn said:

It may be, I didn't test saves crashes in latest versions, but MIDI player crashes are still there, unfornutately, =(

 

Do you remember the MIDI backend you were using or the wad? OS? Or the version of the port you were using?

Edited November 2, 2023 by ceski

[Async Unicorn]

4 minutes ago, ceski said:

 

Do you remember the MIDI backend you were using or the wad? OS?

Windows 11, well, crashes are not depend on what backend or wad I use, as far as I understand, but it happens sometimes when I switch between them (usually between VirtualMIDISynth and OPL)

Edited November 2, 2023 by Vanilla+Unicorn

[RonnieJamesDiner]

If it doesn't run Doom, I ain't want no part o' that sheeeiiiit.

[SilentD00mer]

For me:

- if the port requires a very powerful computer to run

- if the port doesn't have demo support

 

[fai1025]

if it works, sure.

[ceski]

5 hours ago, CacoKnight said:

Eternity is nice too but it feels sluggish (the latest dev build with multithreaded renderer works wonders, especially on Heartland!)

 

I just wanted to emphasize for others that the Eternity Engine dev builds feel much better, even if the multithreading feature is disabled, due to some nice improvements to the frame pacing and mouse input. Those improvements were made around the same time as the multithreading feature. If anyone had issues with EE in the past, try those dev builds, they're great!

[Scuba Steve]

Forcing texture filtering on by default. You'd have to be a fucking moron to think anyone wants that.

[CacoKnight]

On 11/2/2023 at 8:02 PM, Scuba Steve said:

Forcing texture filtering on by default.

I have to agree with this, even if it takes two clicks to remove the normal user won't change it ever. When I see videos on YouTube about people playing Doom with GZDoom and that thing still enabled I just close the tab. What the hell were the devs thinking.

Edited November 19, 2023 by CacoKnight

[No-Man Baugh]

God, please not another GZDoom tirade!

I like this thread so far, I don't want to see this get locked

[CacoKnight]

3 hours ago, No-Man Baugh said:

God, please not another GZDoom tirade!

I like this thread so far, I don't want to see this get locked

Oh, people complain a lot about that? Sorry I had no idea ...and not a deal breaker IMO anyway because it can be disabled in few clicks.

 

GZDoom is the port that made me love Doom (again) after so long and I still use it daily and it's the only one my son uses. I let go videogames in general for 20+ years and just this summer I had to learn what a source port, iwad, pwad and all that stuff is then test everything and set it all up for my likings, challenging and took some time but fun.

Edited November 3, 2023 by CacoKnight