How do I make a line horizon? (DBX-MBF21)

[SynarchyBattleDoge]

Hi, the title speaks by itself. I tried looking for some tricks with nodebuilders, but nothing seems to work and there's not too much info about that in the internet.

[ViolentBeetle]

I don't think you can do anything to make sector extend into horizon, if this is what you were asking, but if make a sector very far away and lower sky ceiling into the floor, it will draw the sky at the edge of the map. You could still walk to the edge of the map created this way, but if you can't, it's passable.

[ramon.dexter]

In udmf its line special 9, line horizon. For vanilla? Good luck with some weird hack.

[SynarchyBattleDoge]

1 minute ago, ramon.dexter said:

In udmf its line special 9, line horizon. For vanilla? Good luck with some weird hack.

In DoomBuilder I'm using Edge config, so yeah, I think it's going to be something very difficult

 

But at least do you know any tricks, or something that I may try even if I gotta hack the linedefs by myself?

[Doomy__Doom]

26 minutes ago, SynarchyBattleDoge said:

In DoomBuilder I'm using Edge config, so yeah, I think it's going to be something very difficult

"Edge" config in DBX is for Doom format (there is a separate Edge UDMF config for UDB). There is no line horizon in Doom format. You have to do it the classic way, with 0-height sky sector. See how, idk, Sunder 05 does it. Plenty of maps out there to reference.

[SynarchyBattleDoge]

Just now, Doomy__Doom said:

"Edge" config in DBX is for Doom format (there is a separate Edge UDMF config for UDB). There is no line horizon in Doom format. You have to do it the classic way, with 0-height sky sector. See how, idk, Sunder 05 does it. Plenty of maps out there to reference.

Yesterday I tested that map, Precarious. But it doesn't gives answers as that's just a untextured wall connected to the F_SKY1 texture. At least in DSDA-DOOM it's not a line horizon, it is just a really big map, and that's what I don't want to achieve.

 

By the way, I thought Edge was something to do with MBF21, but as I'm looking for MBF21, which editor should I use? Maybe that could help me with the line horizon task.

[Quill]

44 minutes ago, ramon.dexter said:

In udmf its line special 9, line horizon. For vanilla? Good luck with some weird hack.

An excerpt from a private discord chat of me describing how it works in vanilla:

Quote

fake skyboxes are fun
you can just plop in zokum bsp and input these magic numbers: 1080 (line action) and 180 (tag)

1080 rotates the wall by whatever degrees the tag is set to

cool stuff actually
mileage may vary, the effect will not work on zdoom

ZokumBSP has additional line specials that it adds. By flipping the wall 180 degrees, the wall becomes invisible, and the floor goes on, creating a horizon effect. ZDoom "fixes" the issue, and it cuts off the horizon. ^sad

[SynarchyBattleDoge]

2 minutes ago, Quill said:

An excerpt from a private discord chat of me describing how it works in vanilla:

ZokumBSP has additional line specials that it adds. By flipping the wall 180 degrees, the wall becomes invisible, and the floor goes on, creating a horizon effect. ZDoom "fixes" the issue, and it cuts off the horizon. ^sad

Tried that yesterday, but now I'm confused if it is because of DBX or something else like "Edge" config, but it ain't working.

[Quill]

Huh, weird. Check what node builder and source port you're using. Try rebuilding nodes or slightly moving a linedef.

I heard you could use line special 242 instead, but I've never dove deep into Boom's stuff, so I don't know how.

[SynarchyBattleDoge]

Just now, Quill said:

Huh, weird. Check what node builder and source port you're using. Try rebuilding nodes or slightly moving a linedef.

I heard you could use line special 242 instead, but I've never dove deep into Boom's stuff, so I don't know how.

Tried that too :(.

May you give the wad of the picture you quoted? I wanna open it in DSDA, so if it renders as a line horizon, maybe that could be the answers but my methods are just unworthy.

[ramon.dexter]

22 minutes ago, Quill said:

An excerpt from a private discord chat of me describing how it works in vanilla:

ZokumBSP has additional line specials that it adds. By flipping the wall 180 degrees, the wall becomes invisible, and the floor goes on, creating a horizon effect. ZDoom "fixes" the issue, and it cuts off the horizon. ^sad

Like I said :D

Flipping one-sided lindefs is one of the general do-nots that I learned over the years...

[dasho]

Why don't you try Eternity or GZdoom, which both support MBF21 and have LineHorizon specials? I'm not sure why you're using the Edge config, but if you are using it with the intent of having a line horizon in EDGE or EDGE-Classic this will not work. We don't have a LineHorizon special, and we build nodes internally with AJBSP regardless of what nodes may or may not exist already.

[SynarchyBattleDoge]

Just now, ramon.dexter said:

Like I said :D

Flipping one-sided lindefs is one of the general do-nots that I learned over the years...

But... Why, if it seems to work¿

[SynarchyBattleDoge]

Just now, dasho said:

Why don't you try Eternity or GZdoom, which both support MBF21 and have LineHorizon specials? I'm not sure why you're using the Edge config, but if you are using it with the intent of having a line horizon in EDGE or EDGE-Classic this will not work. We don't have a LineHorizon special, and we build nodes internally with AJBSP regardless of what nodes may or may not exist already.

I'm focused on making it for DSDA-Doom, but I won't bother changing "Edge" format, it was just because I thought that was the format I shall use. That's because I only have been using Doom Builder X, and when I opened NoSp3 maps to learn, its format just changed to "Edge". But I see I'm misunderstanding that.

[ramon.dexter]

3 minutes ago, SynarchyBattleDoge said:

But... Why, if it seems to work¿

'Opening' a window with a hammer also works, but nobody does it.

[SynarchyBattleDoge]

Just now, ramon.dexter said:

'Opening' a window with a hammer also works, but nobody does it.

Yeah dude, funny. May you answer that technically? If you want to help you do, but this doesn't seems to be the case.

[Quill]

18 minutes ago, SynarchyBattleDoge said:

Tried that too :(.

May you give the wad of the picture you quoted? I wanna open it in DSDA, so if it renders as a line horizon, maybe that could be the answers but my methods are just unworthy.

 

Here's a WAD that displays the effect in use. I can't share the WAD in the image since that's an incomplete map of mine.

infinitegrass.zip

[ramon.dexter]

1 minute ago, SynarchyBattleDoge said:

Yeah dude, funny. May you answer that technically? If you want to help you do, but this doesn't seems to be the case.

I already answered that, technically. In udmf it's done using line action 9-Line Horizon. If you target hexen format, you can try making sloped ceiling with sky texture on. It will make a horizon effect. For vanilla? I dont know, I dont mod vanilla.

[Quill]

7 minutes ago, SynarchyBattleDoge said:

Yeah dude, funny. May you answer that technically? If you want to help you do, but this doesn't seems to be the case.

Let's take a look at how it works:

ZokumBSP adds some new line specials that let you manipulate how walls are rendered. What we're using is this:

Quote

1080 Rotate the rendered wall N degrees, where degrees is taken from tag.

By rotating the wall 180 degrees, the visible face of the wall is now facing away from you. What this means is that now there's no wall to overlay over the floor, making it seem infinite.

 

It is purely visual, so no you can't summon John Carmack through your screen and have him bitchslap you for abusing his engine if you walk into the wall.

 

This only works on software mode though. I don't know how well it works on OpenGL ports. (like GLBoom+)

If you wanna see more cool ZokumBSP special linedefs, check this out:
https://raw.githubusercontent.com/zokum-no/zokumbsp/master/doc/zokumbsp.txt

Edited December 1, 2023 by Quill

[SynarchyBattleDoge]

Just now, Quill said:

 

Here's a WAD that displays the effect in use. I can't share the WAD in the image since that's an incomplete map of mine.

infinitegrass.zip

I opened but it doesn't work BUT

I definitely did something. I changed the map format to Eternity (Doom) and added line horizon special and got this

Spoiler

 

So, it now renders infinitely! But I can walk through, thats kind of weird, and also the obviously halls of mirrors effect.

[Quill]

Weird. Normally it looks like this to me:

Pictured: Woof! 12.0.0

Edited December 1, 2023 by Quill

[SynarchyBattleDoge]

Just now, Quill said:

Let's take a look at how it works:

ZokumBSP adds some new line specials that let you manipulate how walls are rendered. What we're using is this:

By rotating the wall 180 degrees, the visible face of the wall is now facing away from you. What this means is that now there's no wall to overlay over the floor, making it seem infinite.

 

It is purely visual, so no you can't summon John Carmack through your screen and have him bitchslap you for abusing his engine if you walk into the wall.

 

This only works on software mode though. I don't know how well it works on OpenGL ports. (like GLBoom+)

If you wanna see more cool ZokumBSP special linedefs, check this out:
https://raw.githubusercontent.com/zokum-no/zokumbsp/master/doc/zokumbsp.txt

Better answer, thanks!

 

So, I'm doing this in OpenGL mode, but now I see how I gotta bear Software Mode in mind too.

[Quill]

By the way, when I mention ZDoom, I meant the ZDoom family of source ports. Stuff like GZDoom, LZDoom, VKDoom

[SynarchyBattleDoge]

Just now, Quill said:

Weird. Normally it looks like this to me:

Pictured: Woof! 12.0.0

Definitely it is because of the port.

 

But now I achieved to get the horizon effect, but not completely as the walls doesn't render the sky. I'm so close to get this effect.

[MFG38]

1 hour ago, ramon.dexter said:

For vanilla? Good luck with some weird hack.

 

Ironically, the sky "hack" is one of the simpler tricks in the vanilla mapping book. Just give a sector F_SKY1 as the ceiling flat and set its height to 0.

[SynarchyBattleDoge]

Ok, I got something really weird, and I'm not sure how can I explain it.

 

In DBX, I got somelines which shares the same sector, and they have Impassable, Double Sided boxes checked and also Action 337.

There's this thing, because there's not texture in those linedefs, literally no textures, not even the warning texture. I made a small box and I got this, rendered in OpenGl mode:

 

Spoiler

 

It barely renders the inside of my test map, but that's not an issue (At least not yet), so I'd like help finishing with the sky walls, because I'm not sure how could I replace the halls of mirrors effect with the sky. I hope I'm not bothering anyone with this issue.

[Quill]

3 minutes ago, SynarchyBattleDoge said:

Ok, I got something really weird, and I'm not sure how can I explain it.

 

In DBX, I got somelines which shares the same sector, and they have Impassable, Double Sided boxes checked and also Action 337.

There's this thing, because there's not texture in those linedefs, literally no textures, not even the warning texture. I made a small box and I got this, rendered in OpenGl mode:

 

  Hide contents

 

It barely renders the inside of my test map, but that's not an issue (At least not yet), so I'd like help finishing with the sky walls, because I'm not sure how could I replace the halls of mirrors effect with the sky. I hope I'm not bothering anyone with this issue.

I'm not sure what I'm supposed to look at. If you tried applying line special 1080 on a double sided linedef, it wouldn't produce the infinite horizon effect.

[SynarchyBattleDoge]

Just now, Quill said:

I'm not sure what I'm supposed to look at. If you tried applying line special 1080 on a double sided linedef, it wouldn't produce the infinite horizon effect.

The floor finally extends infinitely, but the walls does that glitch effect. And sorry, I miswrote it, I added 337 and also 450 Action codes to the linedefs, and the floor finally does that. But, I just have to make the walls to render the sky too, and it will make the line horizon effect.

 

The thing is that I dunno how, lol.

[Quill]

Create a sector that only contains the horizon lines, then lower its ceiling to 1 map unit (or a height below your viewpoint)

Edited December 1, 2023 by Quill

[SynarchyBattleDoge]

Just now, Quill said:

Create a sector that only contains the horizon lines, then lower its ceiling to 1 map unit (or a height below your viewpoint)

I give up, nothing seems to work. Maybe meanwhile I'm making my megawad, Kraflab or Zokum will add this feature, I hope so.

 

By the way, thank you, your help was really useful ;).