What's the best way to utilize the BFG on large crowds of monsters or crowds with archviles/cyber demons in them?

[DoomGuy2077]

For a long time I struggled to do much damage at all with the BFG. Recently, I've started strafing after the BFG ball starts moving towards the crowd to ensure the tracers hit as many monsters as possible. With archviles I shoot them point blank so the ball and all tracers hit him which is a one hit kill every time. Are there more effective strategies? And how do I get rid of a cyberdemon without shooting 6 BFG shots? I manage to get blown up every time. 

[baja blast rd.]

Learning the fundamentals of how the BFG works would help. From your descriptions, it sounds like you might not know the exact rules that determine how the BFG tracers come out relative to the player. Then read this: 

 

Spoiler

The question in the title is very complex because there many types of crowds that might have archies and cybies in them, so there are a lot of possible answers. 

 

But BFG-ing a single archvile point-blank with the ball and tracers is overkill (you don't need the ball or all of the tracers) and tends to have very low damage output (it usually doesn't hit other targets, so by killing one archvile you're doing 700 damage per shot), while also requiring you to be in a vulnerable position if other enemies, especially other viles, are around that vile. So that is only good if the fight is effectively won when that vile is dead or if you really, really need that vile dead now and can't worry about damage output.

 

A basic improvement to that, which doesn't require a lot of BFG skill, is to hang slightly back so that your tracers catch more than one target, but still close enough to likely kill the vile you want to take out. 

 

I mean, that type of point-blanking is not always bad -- but if that's your main technique you're going to be in trouble. Like, a common way people find multi-vile BFG fights completely unwinnable is trying to point-blank each vile, killing one per shot while damaging none of the others. Against even a small pack of viles that can get you overwhelmed in a hurry, when instead hanging back slightly will do 2-3 viles worth of damage per shot. 

 

[Lucius Wooding]

As for the main question, it's too complicated given all the different fights to give a single answer. Sometimes killing everything as quickly as possible is the goal, other times it can be better to free up space to move or buy yourself time. When it comes to cybers in a crowd control scenario, remember that other monsters will block their rockets and generally cause a lot of good infighting. Not only are you safe from rockets as long as you can put bodies between the two of you, but an infighting cyber is much more predictable and you can deal with the rest of the crowd more easily until you can isolate it. The cyber should rarely be the primary target even if it's the biggest single threat.

 

When it comes to cybers you can consistently 2 shot them if you manage to get the tracers lined up properly. It takes a good bit of practice and even good players don't get it 100% of the time in real situations, but once you get the idea of how to approach and time the shot you should never take 6 shots unless you're fighting from a significant distance. It will often take fewer than 240 cells with the plasma so any time you're at a distance you should consider using plasma or even excess rockets unless time is a big factor. 

 

Archviles in crowds are a different matter; their attacks can hit you through other monsters and it's entirely unpredictable when they'll infight or not. You generally want to be more aggressive in these cases. And don't miss, even if you have to shoot 2 balls just to be safe. It can also help to run away and let their high movement speed isolate them from other monsters. And obviously cover helps a bunch but it's not always guaranteed. If you're given a BFG, many mappers will consider it fair game to plop archies down in an open room compared to just having rockets or SSG.

 

I agree with Baja that you should learn the BFG mechanics a bit better, there's a good WAD below for practicing 2 shotting cybers in particular. I'd also recommend practicing 1v1 fights against cybers in general, if they're killing you a lot (even without the BFG, just ensuring you can survive in the same room as them for a while). Get used to dodging their rockets efficiently and learning their patterns. 

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

Spoiler

-First you should get comfortable dodging cyber rockets. Get into medium range, wait out the first shot of the volley, and then dodge to one side and then back to the other. Don't move excessively, just tapping the movement keys a bit is enough. Rockets have a small hitbox and you have a bit of time unless you're very close. If you dodge too much then you might become very inefficient with the space it takes, or approach walls where the splash damage will punish you. They always fire in volleys of 3 with the same timing, it's no harder than dodging mancubi except a lot more punishing and the splash damage means being near walls can damage you even if you dodge the rocket.

 

-Get a feel for the firing delay of the BFG and the travel time, and you'll be able to dodge the third rocket just as you approach the cyber and the projectile lands. You need the correct timing to make it safely, though it's a bit forgiving. To maximize damage however, you want to get close enough to nearly touch it, and the tracers trigger a frame or two after the projectile lands. So you want the invisible cone of tracers to line up with the hitbox a moment after the ball hits, not at the same moment. 

 

-The direction you're facing when you fire the ball matters more than anything. If you have to miss the projectile, so be it. The tracers deal several times the damage. Sometimes if the cyber moves, for example, you might be able to simply fire into a wall and circle around the cyber a bit to ensure you get a juicy tracer hit. It takes some practice to be able to predict/visualize how to approach it but it's generally OK to miss with the ball, or at least hit any random enemy with it as long as the tracers are used well. Bear in mind though that archviles stand a decent chance of getting killed by the ball alone, provided it gets a high damage roll.

 

-If you don't like the distance or position of the cyber, you can always strafe past them and try to reset your approach. Making a mistake can be deadly, particularly if there are multiple cybers for example. It's worth taking your time to get a favorable position, such as one cyber blocking the shots of a rear one rather than being in a crossfire or being unable to see one.

 

-This isn't something that can always be exploited, but all monster hitboxes are effectively wider when hit at an angle to the map grid. Usually the typical square room will give you 1.4x wider targets if you fire from the corners rather than parallel to one of the walls. This means if you have a stationary cyber for example, you might be able to land more tracers just by firing from certain directions. Their sprites will rotate, but their hitboxes will always be aligned to the grid of the map.

 

-Sometimes it's not important to 2 shot the cybers. If you have unlimited cells or you don't have the time to set up a 2 shot safely, it can be fine to spam.

 

-Very often, it's optimal to circle strafe a bit slowly and ensure good BFG usage rather than flying around at full strafe. You can also curl into the crowd a little bit with each shot so your tracers will be concentrated towards the center. Additionally, you want to predict where you'll be standing at the moment the tracers go off and set your shot direction to address that rather than firing at the center of a crowd. You often see good players, when circling a crowd, turn a bit in the opposite direction of the circle just as the projectile fires. In other words, you're moving to your left and therefore should fire much more at the right side of the crowd, so that in a moment when you're further left the tracer cone will be pointed more at the center rather than missing many of them. This technique also applies somewhat with rockets if you're in a cramped situation, since the splash damage will be mitigated. It's a common instinct to fire at the center of a crowd, but very often a crowd you can circle is a very predictable and stable arrangement.

 

-In cases where you're moving along a wall, always fire your BFG at a 45˚ angle away from it to avoid wasting tracers. (The edge of your tracer cone should line up parallel to it or slightly away, otherwise a portion of them will hit the wall.) You could turn your back to the wall and sidestrafe, but you'll fail to kill things that step into your way. If you run straight forward and shoot forward, only maybe a third of the tracers will do anything.