Amalgoom: Mixing Doom and Doom 2 [Special announcement on page 8!]

[DankMetal]

31 minutes ago, Ludi said:

[Corn photo]

What a corny dude

Hey, don't expose him like that

Maybe he made some mistakes, but that doesn't make it right to show a random discord message.

Edited December 6, 2023 by DankMetal

[Ludi]

I edited the message to provide better context, apologies.

 

I removed the project DMs, I realize they aren't warranted.

Edited December 6, 2023 by Ludi

[DoomGappy]

6 minutes ago, Ludi said:

[This screenshot was taken several days ago, not today]

 

I really hate corny-ass community drama but I'll just say this.

 

If you guys are really passionate about this project, I'd learn from this and do exactly the opposite of what happened here. I accept your apology and hope to see this project come to fruition :)

Thank you, Ludi. I would ask you to take that down, but I understand that after the letter is the moment for people to express their grievances. We surely have learned from this and will move on in a more mature and open way. 

Edited December 6, 2023 by DoomGappy

[Ludi]

And that's the right attitude to have. Thanks for taking the effort to make things right by everybody.

 

Its sad you had to apologize on Johnny's behalf, but I trust you to pull it all together. That's really all I have to say regarding this, good luck!

Edited December 6, 2023 by Ludi

[Eric Claus]

25 minutes ago, DankMetal said:

Hey, don't expose him like that

Maybe he made some mistakes, but that doesn't make it right to show a random discord message.

 

Looks like Ludi removed it.

Edited December 6, 2023 by Eric Claus

[Ludi]

Yeah I took it back, it wasn't warranted. Apologies for that.

[The Royal We]

14 minutes ago, Ludi said:

Yeah I took it back, it wasn't warranted. Apologies for that.

 

You have no idea how many outbursts of anger like this we have had to hold back or delate in the last few days. We understand your feelings.

 

I even changed my profile picture from my silly cat to my pissed off cat. It currently represents my spirit.

Edited December 6, 2023 by The Royal We

[Dubbag]

All good dude, I wish the best for the project I know you all are doing the best you can! And to @GermanPeter I apologize for my heated reaction about the In Song Only project. Initially I was under the impression that my maps which had been submitted and accepted 10 months earlier would not have been accepted based on your criticisms, I got angry too quickly and reacted the wrong way I'm sorry.

Edited December 6, 2023 by Dubbag

[GermanPeter]

47 minutes ago, Dubbag said:

All good dude, I wish the best for the project I know you all are doing the best you can! And to @GermanPeter I apologize for my heated reaction about the In Song Only project. Initially I was under the impression that my maps which had been submitted and accepted 10 months earlier would not have been accepted based on your criticisms, I got angry too quickly and reacted the wrong way I'm sorry.

It's all good. I was mainly worried that you were someone that took criticism personally, which for you, as a creator, would be a terrible thing. My criticism also would have been more appropriate wasn't the map already submitted and accepted almost a year ago, but that was an issue with the project itself. I'll also say that I could have and probably should have been a bit less harsh with my words in general.
That being said, I don't think we need to bring up everything again, so let's leave it at that.

 

Aside from that, I didn't feel I was being disrespected, at least in this project, so I don't really see why I'd need a public apology like that? I wasn't even aware that Johnny had been rude towards other people, since I didn't join the Discord or anything. @DoomGappy

Edited December 6, 2023 by GermanPeter

[GermanPeter]

Also, what about Doom 2 in Song Only, does that mean that project is dead, or..?

[DoomGappy]

3 hours ago, GermanPeter said:

It's all good. I was mainly worried that you were someone that took criticism personally, which for you, as a creator, would be a terrible thing. My criticism also would have been more appropriate wasn't the map already submitted and accepted almost a year ago, but that was an issue with the project itself. I'll also say that I could have and probably should have been a bit less harsh with my words in general.
That being said, I don't think we need to bring up everything again, so let's leave it at that.

 

Aside from that, I didn't feel I was being disrespected, at least in this project, so I don't really see why I'd need a public apology like that? I wasn't even aware that Johnny had been rude towards other people, since I didn't join the Discord or anything. @DoomGappy

Well, me and @The Royal We (who has been a great friend, and my most important ally in all of this) went over the old thread a lot before writing this letter. We visited all of the parts and saw how your suggestions were scoffed at when you talked about the story of the project and all that jazz. It felt right to include you in the letter becase even if the leader didn't agree with your ideas, there are much better ways to handle that. 
 

3 hours ago, GermanPeter said:

Also, what about Doom 2 in Song Only, does that mean that project is dead, or..?

The same that is happening here will happen there. I'll ask the mods to lock the other thread and start a new one, but it will take a while. Mappers who worked on their maps don't need to be disrespected by not being answered, not having feedback info, or generally being bossed around anymore. But we'll cross that bridge when we get to it. I'm also happy you and dubbag seem to be in good terms. That situation wouldn't have happened if proper feedback and map analyisis processes had been made in due time. That's what we're aiming for with our new general gfuidelines for this project, even though most of the maps are already very well designed and only need some small tweaking. Hope we can all move on from these situations to greener pastures. 

Edited December 6, 2023 by DoomGappy

[LVENdead]

I wish you all good luck getting this project to the finish line. Seems like it's now in capable hands and has a good chance to live up to its promise!

[tamara mochaccina]

40 minutes ago, LVENdead said:

live up to its promise!

as a playtester,

 

it's already veryy good! keep your heads up for big news

Edited December 6, 2023 by tamara mochaccina

[Rus]

@Cutman @DankMetal Anybody working on the title music? If not, it might be fun to have a friendly competition between composers since it shouldn't be too big of an effort, with a poll to decide the winner, and everything else going in the 'B' side. Just a musing.

[DoomGappy]

5 hours ago, Rus said:

@Cutman @DankMetal Anybody working on the title music? If not, it might be fun to have a friendly competition between composers since it shouldn't be too big of an effort, with a poll to decide the winner, and everything else going in the 'B' side. Just a musing.

DankMetal is the one dealing with the OST. He had the idea of the B-sides, it is free for anyone to submit any mix of songs. I don't think we need the competition element, because a lot of talented musicians have already submitted stuff, but talk to him if you can. 

[Rus]

5 hours ago, DoomGappy said:

DankMetal is the one dealing with the OST. He had the idea of the B-sides, it is free for anyone to submit any mix of songs. I don't think we need the competition element, because a lot of talented musicians have already submitted stuff, but talk to him if you can. 

Ok, no worries. @DankMetal can I claim the title track? Seems to still be open in the spreadsheet.

[DankMetal]

9 hours ago, Rus said:

Ok, no worries. @DankMetal can I claim the title track? Seems to still be open in the spreadsheet.

Oh, forgot to answer this

You can take it!

[DoomGappy]

[ANNOUNCEMENT: NEW GUIDELINES]

Amalgoom started in a very vague manner, and with very nebulous terms and goals. The guideline was just to mix both maps assigned per slot and then have them work together in some way or another. Thanks to the amazing skill of the mappers involved, we’ve received awesome maps that reached that goal, even with those not so well defined rules. Now that the project has changed hands, we’ve defined some guidelines to make things easier to understand. We will reach mappers who have contributed to the project before, but our focus now is on the shareware version (maps 01 to 10).

Guidelines

- Mix the maps specified in your map slot.

- Maps should be designed with all three difficulties balanced and co-op in mind, but not necessarily deathmatch.

- Study the original maps, and the original mappers’ styles. If the maps were made by different mappers, try to unite their aesthetics and quirks.

- You are only allowed to use weapons and items that appear in at least one of the maps. For example, If there is a BFG in one map but not in the other, you can still use it, but If none of the maps have a BFG, you can't include it in your map.

- The same applies for enemy placement, but not to their numbers. For example, if there is one revenant in one of the original maps, you can place as many revenants you want in it. Still, try to use your judgment to do it well and don't go overboard with the enemy placements. This is not a slaughter map megawad.

- These rules don’t apply to textures, but try to keep your map aesthetically similar to both maps that inspired it. Waterfall textures are allowed and are in the texture pack because they were cut from the final version of the game. Don’t use the Icon of Sin textures outside of its level.

- It is recommended that maps can be completed in 10 minutes while playing casually. Maps shouldn’t be longer than 30 minutes to play. Remember, this megawad is meant for continuous play and is based in Doom and Doom 2.

- Try not to just copy and paste areas, but remix, resize, redo and rebrand our classic and beloved places from Doom and Doom 2.

- Explore the feeling of familiarity in players. We’re paying homage to the levels we’ve played for the last 30 years. Make the player think “I’ve been here before…”, but still mix things up a bit.

- If an area in the original maps was bad or not very well developed, you can change it. You don’t need to repeat the mistakes of the past, but you can play with them.

- Just like John Romero in Sigil, there is no need to limit yourself to the blocky aesthetic of the original maps. But again, study the maps and the people who made them. Let their peculiarities shine but add your touch to it too.

- If anyone wants to suggest new rules, send @DoomGappy or @The Royal We a Direct Message.

- And most important of all, have fun.

 

Social Guidelines

- Respect everyone in the thread as a person and as a mapper. Be kind.

- Test other people’s maps and give constructive feedback. We need as much information from as many people as possible to have a good mappack. Opinions from people who are part of the project or outside players are very welcome. Show it to your brother, your girlfriend or your boss!

- Don’t just criticize a map without giving useful suggestions. It’s important to help mappers understand the problems in their maps and how to fix them.

- Don’t spam with short comments, try to make your posts more well developed and meaningful.

We are on the process of reviewing the maps, and we’ll talk to the mappers whose maps don’t attend these guidelines, though there seem to be very few of those. This curating process is being made by a team of mappers based on these guidelines. We also have a discord server where we discuss the maps and give quicker feedback, but we prefer to keep it closed for now. If you are interested in joining us, send @DoomGappy, @The Royal We or @Cutman a Direct Message. Cheers!

Edited December 9, 2023 by DoomGappy

[The Royal We]

Here is a playtest of MAP11: Circle of Life (and Anomalies) V0.72, played by my friend @AstroX while we chat.

 

That was fun!

 

 

[hexSlater]

I need to try this. 

[GermanPeter]

12 hours ago, DoomGappy said:

- Maps should be designed with all three difficulties balanced and co-op in mind, but not necessarily deathmatch.

I'm glad you're reviewing past maps, because that is a very important, but also VERY late addition.
Luckily, I made my map with multiplayer in mind, but I'm not sure if you can even do that for other maps. Mine certainly gets extremely cramped at times, and it's a good thing that it's so open-ended, because otherwise that'd be a slog to play through with up to 3 other people.

Since you're also going to revise "Song Only", I'd recommend leaving that bit about co-op out. Heck, maybe even the rule about all three difficulties will be impossible to enforce for that one, unless several maps were remade from the ground up. At this point, you kinda really have to take what you can get, at least with that project. Seems like people put more effort into their maps for this one, so maybe it'll be easier here.

[DoomGappy]

3 minutes ago, GermanPeter said:

I'm glad you're reviewing past maps, because that is a very important, but also VERY late addition.
Luckily, I made my map with multiplayer in mind, but I'm not sure if you can even do that for other maps. Mine certainly gets extremely cramped at times, and it's a good thing that it's so open-ended, because otherwise that'd be a slog to play through with up to 3 other people.

Since you're also going to revise "Song Only", I'd recommend leaving that bit about co-op out. Heck, maybe even the rule about all three difficulties will be impossible to enforce for that one, unless several maps were remade from the ground up. At this point, you kinda really have to take what you can get, at least with that project. Seems like people put more effort into their maps for this one, so maybe it'll be easier here.

As mentioned before, rules were pretty obscure. We have a clearer vision of what this project is about now, and that may involve some alterations and tweaks to maps. We hope to have a memorable and interesting set of maps by the end of it that pay tribute to the ones that shaped our childhoods and our mapping careers. I appreciate your concern. D2ISO won't have as many new rules, it was a fairly lax project for people to have fun with song names. It will still be treated with respect and care, but without the same strictness. Thanks for the tip, GermanPeter!

[DankMetal]

@Heretic926 @mr-around @EagerBeaver

We hadn't seen a lot from your maps in a while.

If you have something to say, or show, go ahead, i can't wait to play your maps guys, testing the shareware release made me tired of techbase, i need some hell goodness!

[DoomGappy]

So... We were aiming for the 30th birthday of Doom, December 10th, but we were not expecting Eviternity II to be released so suddenly. All of the staff is very busy playing it, and we definitely think you guys should relax a bit and play it too! We promise to finish the first final version of the thing until December 20th. We promise to make it really polished! Now, what are you waiting for? Go play Eviternity II!
 

 

Edited December 10, 2023 by DoomGappy

[tamara mochaccina]

(and sigil)

[Heretic926]

10 hours ago, DankMetal said:

@Heretic926 @mr-around @EagerBeaver

We hadn't seen a lot from your maps in a while.

If you have something to say, or show, go ahead, i can't wait to play your maps guys, testing the shareware release made me tired of techbase, i need some hell goodness!

 

7 hours ago, DoomGappy said:

So... We were aiming for the 30th birthday of Doom, December 10th, but we were not expecting Eviternity II to be released so suddenly. All of the staff is very busy playing it, and we definitely think you guys should relax a bit and play it too! We promise to finish the first final version of the thing until December 20th. We promise to make it really polished! Now, what are you waiting for? Go play Eviternity II!
 

 

...That's certainly a way to get motivated to get back to work. (Gotta finish the original Eviternity before playing the sequel).

[Rus]

Just finished the title track, "D_AMGTTL". Hopefully not too Creatively Bankrupt™, but such is what popped into my head, with a few ornamentations here and there. @DankMetal @DoomGappy

Edited December 10, 2023 by Rus

[DankMetal]

Okay, i have some things to say regarding the OST.

First, i would like to thank everyone who has participated in this. Seriously, it's just banger after banger, you guys outdid yourselves!

Second, there's two new slots available for everyone, and this are quite special.

This are for map 33 and 34 which are currently being made by @Individualised, and you have to combine two songs from PSX Doom with two Wolfenstein 3D songs! I'm pretty sure that the final results will be kind of silly, just for the juxtaposition of something like "At The Grip of Madness" with a silly song about nazis.

That's it for now, guys. Again, thanks to every artist that has shared their talent here, it will not be wasted.

[Individualised]

1 hour ago, DankMetal said:

Okay, i have some things to say regarding the OST.

First, i would like to thank everyone who has participated in this. Seriously, it's just banger after banger, you guys outdid yourselves!

Second, there's two new slots available for everyone, and this are quite special.

This are for map 33 and 34 which are currently being made by @Individualised, and you have to combine two songs from PSX Doom with two Wolfenstein 3D songs! I'm pretty sure that the final results will be kind of silly, just for the juxtaposition of something like "At The Grip of Madness" with a silly song about nazis.

That's it for now, guys. Again, thanks to every artist that has shared their talent here, it will not be wasted.

I actually had ideas of my own for what the two song combinations could be for MAP33 and MAP34, but I wanted to wait until I had posted the maps before I discussed that. I don't really know how combining Wolfenstein 3D songs with an ambient track and a gabber(?) track would work to be honest, especially in MIDI.

 

How about Read Me While Listening to This (from Doom 2) combined with Wondering About My Loved Ones (from Wolf 3D) for MAP33, as the former plays on MAP33 by default, and both songs are similar in theme? MAP34 could be a mix of the Doom 2 intermission theme (which usually plays on MAP34) and another Wolf 3D theme of whoever decides to do that MIDI's choice.

 

Speaking of my maps; both will be done by the 20th. Had some IRL/non-Doom stuff taking up my time and energy but I should be mostly free to work on this now.

Edited December 12, 2023 by Individualised

[DankMetal]

4 minutes ago, Individualised said:

I actually had ideas of my own for what the two song combinations could be for MAP33 and MAP34, but I wanted to wait until I had posted the maps before I discussed that. I don't really know how combining Wolfenstein 3D songs with an ambient track and a gabber(?) track would work to be honest, especially in MIDI.

 

How about Read Me While Listening to This (from Doom 2) combined with Wondering About My Loved Ones (from Wolf 3D) for MAP33, as the former plays on MAP33 by default, and both songs are similar in theme? MAP34 could be a mix of the Doom 2 intermission theme (which usually plays on MAP34) and another Wolf 3D theme of whoever decides to do that MIDI's choice.

 

Speaking of my maps; both will be done by the 20th.

Shit, i think i should've asked before.

We can talk about that with whoever wants to do those songs.

And i can't wait to play your maps, The Mansion is such an underrated level, and i don't know why midway did such effort of making a whole new level just to not put nazi imagery on the game