Amalgoom: Mixing Doom and Doom 2 [Special announcement on page 8!]

[DoomGappy]

Making a new post here in the thread just so that people that are not on the discord server know what's happening. I guess the development of the project has officially been moved there, since most of the maps are finished. What the team has been doing now is provide feedback from a map to map standpoint, especially for the maps in Episode 2. All of the team members have been replaying the original maps from Doom and Doom 2 that inspired the project's version and giving feedback based on these playthroughs, one by one. This process has produced great results so far, but it takes some time for each feedback to come to each mapper. For those interested in joining us, contact one of the project's leads. 

I hope all are still having a great time mapping. Thanks again for the support!

Edited January 19, 2024 by DoomGappy

[plums]

I'm not up for doing in-depth comparisons of the Amalgoom maps to their source material, but I'm happy to playtest things if someone hands me a wad and says "play these maps," if that would be useful.

[DankMetal]

8 minutes ago, plums said:

I'm not up for doing in-depth comparisons of the Amalgoom maps to their source material, but I'm happy to playtest things if someone hands me a wad and says "play these maps," if that would be useful.

Sure! We have a very primitive build with all the completed maps so far, let us fix some things like HOMs and whatnot, and we could handle it to anyone who wanna test it out.

[DoomGappy]

12 minutes ago, plums said:

I'm not up for doing in-depth comparisons of the Amalgoom maps to their source material, but I'm happy to playtest things if someone hands me a wad and says "play these maps," if that would be useful.

I'll call you on discord to discuss these things, we actually need someone with more expertise on compatibility to see if things work well. Thanks for volunteering!

[DankMetal]

A quick update on the OST:

We are almost done with it, we just have 2 slots left for maps 33 and 34.

As always, thanks to everyone who already contributed to the soundtrack, you're awesome.

 

As for the B sides, we still have a lot of slots open, you can check that on this spreadsheet.

One last thing before i go.

@Rus @Proxy-MIDI @wumbo @UUN4 @minimedals

Are you guys ok with your midis being free-to-use for the community? If you don't want your songs to be used outside of this project, we can put a disclaimer wherever it's needed.

 

[minimedals]

I'm fine with mine being free to use, personally.

[Proxy-MIDI]

Ja ja. Do what you want with this. ;)

[Rus]

Fine by me, thank you for asking!

[PinkKittyRose]

Alright, kinda a long hiatus there but I got a couple updates to share.

First off, MAP32 - Go 1992 It has its basics done and has been submitted to the Playtesting part of the Google Drive. This is the entire map with just Ultra-Violence difficulty as I want to get that ironed out fully before bothering with the other difficulties and co-op. With Go 2 It being one of the two maps slammed together, the monster count is expectedly high and ends up more or less giving Map31 from Doom 2 the treatment Map01 got originally.

This map is definitely harder than my previous one mostly due to the objective being given to make a slaughter map, but I mean... it is still pretty simple compared to them proper, very difficult slaughter maps the pros out there enjoy. It was my first time making this style of map, so hopefully it is enjoyable.

With Wolfenstein being part of the map's combination the visual design this time is far, far, FAR simpler than Precipice of Torment, so I tried out some mapping tricks I had no idea how to do at the time. Like to try new things each time after all!

...Deathmatch is technically implemented, but due to heavy Voodoo Doll reliance throughout the map, I constrained it to a very small portion. Should make for some decent chaos, though.

NOTE: The WAD is in a ZIP that includes the Plutonia textures for Doom II resource WAD Jimmy posted back in 2015 I used to build the map, just in case people need it for testing!

Uhh... have fun hopefully??

[Updated Version in Future Post]

I also submitted a small update to MAP24 - Precipice of Torment in the Finished folder. I found a spot you could soft-lock yourself behind some geometry (by the cook-out), and added a fake floor to prevent players from falling in there. Whatever was done to fix the nodes last time will have to be done again. I am not sure why my node-builder dislikes the map so much, and I only know a little about node-builders anyways!

Edited February 11, 2024 by PinkKittyRose

[The Royal We]

29 minutes ago, PinkKittyRose said:

Alright, kinda a long hiatus there but I got a couple updates to share.

First off, MAP32 - Go 1992 It has its basics done and has been submitted to the Playtesting part of the Google Drive. This is the entire map with just Ultra-Violence difficulty as I want to get that ironed out fully before bothering with the other difficulties and co-op. With Go 2 It being one of the two maps slammed together, the monster count is expectedly high and ends up more or less giving Map31 from Doom 2 the treatment Map01 got originally.

This map is definitely harder than my previous one mostly due to the objective being given to make a slaughter map, but I mean... it is still pretty simple compared to them proper, very difficult slaughter maps the pros out there enjoy. It was my first time making this style of map, so hopefully it is enjoyable.

With Wolfenstein being part of the map's combination the visual design this time is far, far, FAR simpler than Precipice of Torment, so I tried out some mapping tricks I had no idea how to do at the time. Like to try new things each time after all!

...Deathmatch is technically implemented, but due to heavy Voodoo Doll reliance throughout the map, I constrained it to a very small portion. Should make for some decent chaos, though.

NOTE: The WAD is in a ZIP that includes the Plutonia textures for Doom II resource WAD Jimmy posted back in 2015 I used to build the map, just in case people need it for testing!

Uhh... have fun hopefully??

Go 1992 It - UV Testing Version

I also submitted a small update to MAP24 - Precipice of Torment in the Finished folder. I found a spot you could soft-lock yourself behind some geometry (by the cook-out), and added a fake floor to prevent players from falling in there. Whatever was done to fix the nodes last time will have to be done again. I am not sure why my node-builder dislikes the map so much, and I only know a little about node-builders anyways!

Yayyy! I'll try to play your map today, even though I'm a bit tired. Maybe I won't get to the end, because it's a slaughtermap, and today my mind has already melted. Still, curiosity weighs more heavily.

[The Royal We]

@PinkKittyRose

Yesterday, in fact, I was so tired that I fell asleep.

I played the map today and I'm delighted.
What a good union. And indeed a slaughter map. Dons bons.
I also remembered that this map is a triple mix, since it has pieces of MAP01 from Doom 2. If you have the time and desire, I think it would be fun to have a part where you recreate a piece of the first map with textures from Wolfenstein.
I'm still a bit dizzy from having played it, so I can't give you any complex feedback. Tomorrow I'll send you the video of today's gamplay in English (I'll leave it up overnight), from there I think you'll be able to draw conclusions on your own as to how the map is working, whether it's what you wanted in some parts, or not. I think the time I had the most trouble was the "hunted moment", with the labyrinth of archviles, which is perhaps where I died the most on the map. Anyway, A+.

[GermanPeter]

On 2/6/2024 at 2:37 AM, PinkKittyRose said:

Uhh... have fun hopefully??

Go 1992 It - UV Testing Version

This map is really not fun for me. I assume it's very faithful to the original map (which I never played), but this was completely unenjoyable.

I also have to admit that I didn't finish it, I just gave up after a while.

 

I don't like pure enemy spam maps, especially when they're borderline unfair. The beginning was fine, with the big arena, but entering the first Wolfenstein room with the Chaingunners only to get attacked by 100 Revenants you had no way of knowing were gonna be there is just mean, and it only got worse from there.
Even holding down M1 with the BFG equipped didn't make it bearable. Frankly, I don't even know why you have other types of weapons and ammo lying around, because there's no way of surviving this without the BFG, as even the rocket launcher straight-up kills you if enemies are too close.

I know it's a gimmick map and I know you didn't balance it around HMP yet, but this is way too much. If you wanna keep the slaughter map nature, then do that, but you gotta cut back on the amount of enemies. Even with the amount of powerups and weapons, it wasn't fun for me. Each time more enemies spawned in, I didn't feel challenged, just tired, as if I wasn't accomplishing anything.

 

I guess you're trying to be faithful and these types of map are just not my cup of tea, so I won't comment on the general difficulty further. I guess it works for UV.

For the easier settings however, you HAVE to reduce the amount of monsters. Players who aren't good at the game will NOT be able to have a good time there, even if you put invulns everywhere. For HMP and lower, you really have to cut the amount of monsters in half at least, ESPECIALLY the Arch-Viles.

 

In regards to the map's design: it looks great and I can see the Wolfenstein influences well, so I can't say much.
I think it'd be neat if you placed several health bonuses on top of each other in the section inspired by the "dog kennel" from MAP31, as that's what the original map did (to simulate how much health you get from the dog food in the Wolfenstein 3D version). Would just be cute.

 

I really did like the start, as if it's literally the same map that Doomguy had already completed back in 1994. Also really enjoy the details of the thousands of marine corpses before the big hallway section, good stuff. Design-wise, it's absolutely fantastic, really looks the part (at least for Wolfenstein, I've never played the other map before, like I said). Good fake-out at the end there too.

 

However, why do the SS appear so late? They're so iconic to the original map, but you keep them away for so long. Was the point to make players expect them from the start, only to reveal them much later? I guess it's another fake-out, but one I don't really get. It feels strange basing a map on an iconic one and then keep one of the most iconic parts until near the end. I'm not saying this is something you gotta change, but it's also not something I'm a fan of.

 

But please change the textures of the doors that you can't open normally. It's very confusing to want to open them but you can't without any indication of why. I don't know if that's a reference or not, but it's poor game design. The map is confusing enough as it is. You can just swap it out with a different texture entirely.

 

Overall, it's an (assumedly) faithful map that heavily references the originals. Please don't take my criticism in regards to the amount of enemies personally, I just think these types of maps are not very fun.

 

But the map is extremely big, and as encounters already take way longer than regular ones, it just drags on. Once keys were introduced, I just quit the map because I couldn't even remember where I needed them and I wasn't gonna trek through hordes of Cyberdemons and Arch-Viles to find out.

It's a nice idea trying to introduce people to this type of gameplay, but it was not implemented well here imo. Reduce the amount of enemies (especially Arch-Viles), add more power-ups, and you're golden. If some UV sadists wanna challenge themselves, they can, but I don't play Doom for that.

 

This has more to do with the project itself (so you can ignore it, PKR) - why is this map in the MAP32 slot? This is just inconsistent, it should be MAP31, as it has absolutely nothing to do with GROSSE. I'm in general not a fan of adding non-Doom 1 and 2 maps (especially when Episode 4 is RIGHT THERE), but this choice just confuses me. Was this about difficulty? Because MAP32 is already easier than 31, not that difficulty matters like that for optional secret levels.

Edited February 7, 2024 by GermanPeter

[The Royal We]

@PinkKittyRose, here is your video:

 

Spoiler

 

 

4 hours ago, GermanPeter said:

This has more to do with the project itself (so you can ignore it, PKR) - why is this map in the MAP32 slot? This is just inconsistent, it should be MAP31, as it has absolutely nothing to do with GROSSE. I'm in general not a fan of adding non-Doom 1 and 2 maps (especially when Episode 4 is RIGHT THERE), but this choice just confuses me. Was this about difficulty? Because MAP32 is already easier than 31, not that difficulty matters like that for optional secret levels.

Dude, you really have no idea of all the tangled wires we've had to untangle after the change in project leadership. Moreover, to achieve some kind of perfection, tidying all this up would mean throwing away excellent maps like this, even if they're not your cup of tea because you don't like dying in a game that has quick-save available. I understand your complaint and if it were up to me I would have organized it differently from the start. But now that the mappers have done their job, we will NOT undervalue their time and dedication. If you're not going to appreciate or at least understand our efforts to clean up the mess, and if you don't intend to make new maps of the same quality and that make sense within the structure, the least I ask for is respect.

Edited February 7, 2024 by The Royal We

[DoomGappy]

4 hours ago, GermanPeter said:

This has more to do with the project itself (so you can ignore it, PKR) - why is this map in the MAP32 slot? This is just inconsistent, it should be MAP31, as it has absolutely nothing to do with GROSSE. I'm in general not a fan of adding non-Doom 1 and 2 maps (especially when Episode 4 is RIGHT THERE), but this choice just confuses me. Was this about difficulty? Because MAP32 is already easier than 31, not that difficulty matters like that for optional secret levels.

 

The reason for this is what we all know, there was no direction from the previous lead, and as we've already discussed thoroughly in the server, ou priority is finishing the maps and packing up the wad the way it was set out from before. In respect to mappers we are working diligently to allocate all of the maps in a way that makes more or less sense, and as previously mentioned, it's not a subject that's up for debate. No decisions are being taken without considering a huge amount of factors, but most importantly, respecting the mappers' time that they used to make maps for our project with such care. 

[philcul]

Hey, I just played the fusion of Go 2 It and Grosse and I personally didn't think its difficulty is that hard. I almost always only play HMP and I didn't find the map that hard. If that's the UV-version then the HMP-version, that's easier than this, will be fine. I was surprised how many power-ups there were if that's the UV-version. With all those supercharges and megaspheres this UV felt easier then Abandon's HMP, so I guess it's fine. I don't think you have to reduce the enemy count by much, honestly - mostly the archviles and maybe barons - and maybe some of the cybies at the end. Even though the cyberdemon horde isn't that much of a threat if you use the invul on the left - which is totally fine!

 

In general I really liked this map and how it pays tribute to the original. In 1996 Go 2 It was a shocking experience and I can recognize many elements from it but nowadays it's the original level is rather tame. But this feels like an updated version which conserves the original ideas and general layouts but transports them into 2024. This combined with the Wolfenstein-elements plays great. I especially liked how you reused space via all those transformations and that the lighting gradually changed with the rising ceiling. Fantastic visuals!

 

Edit: Some constructive criticism. Maybe you could make it somehow clearer in the beginning that you'll have to return to the starting room after collecting the keys. I did not have any problem with that, as I like to use automap and regularly saw the new openings appear on the map and the teleporting enemies where also a good hint... but maybe you could put small signs with the blue, yellow and red skull key texture on the respective side of the starting room, so that the player can imprint this into their memory and think to themselves "ah, I'll probably have to return here, when I got all the keys".

Another thing: I honestly walked a bit in circles in the first room after killing everything because I didn't realize that the one platform was a lift as it looks like everyother platform. Maybe put some other lower texture there to make it clear that it is a lift?

No other criticisms from me. :)

Edited February 7, 2024 by philcul

[DankMetal]

@EagerBeaver @Individualised @Logamuffin 

@DynamiteKaitorn

If you have any screenshot, unfinished draft or anything to show, please do so. We are really close to the deadline.

[Individualised]

Not ready to post the finalised maps just right now, I'll post MAP33 soon enough

Edited February 8, 2024 by Individualised

[DynamiteKaitorn]

Map Name: Barrels Of Pandemonium!
Author: Heich AKA DynamiteKaitorn
Slot: MAP23 / E3M3
 

My apologies! I didn't realise I forgot to upload my map to here on DWF. I think I posted the map over on the discord channel and then IRL got in the way meaning I completely forgot about this. :s

 

Spoiler

^Spawn room^

^Just up the stairs near the centre of the map^

Sliiimey :o

even more slime! D:

 

https://www.mediafire.com/file/eokwcl112ewe580/BOP-v1.zip/file

[DoomGappy]

7 hours ago, DankMetal said:

@EagerBeaver @Individualised @Logamuffin 

@DynamiteKaitorn

If you have any screenshot, unfinished draft or anything to show, please do so. We are really close to the deadline.

And also @mr-around, if possible. We haven't been able to get you on our server (you probably don't use discord as much), but updates on the map progress would be great. 

[The Royal We]

4 hours ago, DynamiteKaitorn said:

Map Name: Barrels Of Pandemonium!
Author: Heich AKA DynamiteKaitorn
Slot: MAP23 / E3M3
 

My apologies! I didn't realise I forgot to upload my map to here on DWF. I think I posted the map over on the discord channel and then IRL got in the way meaning I completely forgot about this. :s

 

  Hide contents

^Spawn room^

^Just up the stairs near the centre of the map^

Sliiimey :o

even more slime! D:

 

https://www.mediafire.com/file/eokwcl112ewe580/BOP-v1.zip/file

That's a hell of a map. That's all I have to say. I’m crazy to play the new version. Hoping for more barrels hehe

[Heretic926]

I've given my feedback on MAP32 by @PinkKittyRose in project's Discord channel, so I'm just gonna recite it here:

 

The mapping trickery is impressive for sure, but level is overscaled and overcrowded with enemies. Definitely it has to do with the structure of Wolfenstein's first level and textures. I must say there's too many ambushes even for my liking, so far the worst fights are "Hunted" reprise and big L-shaped corridor/cave section of the map. Because of that, this map takes a long time and gives the feeling of "Hell Revealed grind". I played the original Go 2 It and Go 4 It from Plutonia 2 - both of them take twice as fast to complete and don't have nearly as much monsters as this behemoth.

 

In the end I'm conflicted about this map. Clearly there's a big effort put into it, but even with the subgenre of "Go 2 It successor" maps the gameplay is repetitive, grinding and overkill. I apologize if this is a little harsh critique, but that was really exhaustive experience.

Edited February 9, 2024 by Heretic926

[EagerBeaver]

Good news, everyone!

 

Here's my MAP15 in wireframe mode.

 

And it's gonna be bigger.

[ViolentBeetle]

20 minutes ago, EagerBeaver said:

Here's my MAP15 in wireframe mode.

Since presumably your map will contain a secret exit, I think it would make sense to make it a plutonia-style portal, to give a hint of what secret levels will be like.

[The Royal We]

5 hours ago, ViolentBeetle said:

Since presumably your map will contain a secret exit, I think it would make sense to make it a plutonia-style portal, to give a hint of what secret levels will be like.

This plutonia-style portal would be nice to have on the @PinkKittyRose map as well, if she wants, to keep everything in line.

[PinkKittyRose]

Okay, after some play-testing has come both in forms of comments here and watching some runs, I went ahead and assembled the feedback and made a bunch of overall changes to MAP32. Aside from there being like, 300 less monsters, the changes are fairly substantial so I will add a proper changelog below. I know this kind of map is not everyone's cup of tea, so it has been very divisive with it often either ending up love it or hate it. No amount of changes I can make will make it appeal to those who do not care for this sort of thing, at least not without alienating those who do care for it, so at the very least I aimed to make it less exhausting.

First crack at this sort of map, so it is only natural it needed some adjustments after all!

I took down the old version and the new version is below:

[Updated Version in Future Post]

 

Now naturally some feedback there was not much that could be done as some of it really is just "That's just Go 2 It" like the Health and Ammo balance being best described as "Yes", but I pretty well got good suggestions from everyone.

 

I left a couple of the bigger fights more or less alone, like the one at the start and the one in the MAP31 exit section, but most others have had some adjustment. I personally really like the shock to the system of the opener so I want to leave it as is.

 

Also thank you to those who complicated some of the technical stuff I tried here... I like to experiment with each new map, helps me gain all the more appreciation for the skilled mappers that really know what they are doing with that sort of thing.

 

Oh and Royal We, the Plutonia teleporter was already there! The exit room is very similar to Go 2 It with a little combination of MAP31's exit room.

Changelog:

Spoiler

- Made the elevator in the first room clearer by using different textures. This should make it easier to see where to go.
- Added two additional, smaller elevators to the first room to give other avenues of getting out of the middle.
- Added a staircase to the first room that shows up at the end of the map to give both the player and monsters a little more freedom.

- Removed a few Arch-Viles here and there to make a number of the fights less frustrating for those who detest the fiery fellas.

- Revamped the southern branch of the map. It no longer contains any Arch-Viles and has had one of its ambushes entirely removed.

- Added a cheeky little nod to MAP01 since the original Go 2 It was based off of its layout.

- Removed Barons here and there that were just not accomplishing anything but being an extra thing to BFG.

- Added a number of redundancy lines for raising floor ambushes and similar triggers so ports like DSDA should be safe from linedef skips.

- Changed a couple of door textures to indicate they will be opened later.

- Changed the door back to start to be 3 key locked and added an appropriate key label so the player knows to return there later.

- Removed four total Arch-Viles from the "Hunted" encounter and added more cells so wasteful cell usage will be less problematic.

- Removed a few skele boys here and there from encounters to allow a little more room for dodging.

- Stacked another 3 health potions onto that one "kennel" so it is identical to MAP31

- Swapped out a raised Cyberdemon towards the end as it was just an annoying position to get it out of for 100% kills

- Chopped down most incidental encounters to be very few enemies so gameplay between bigger set piece fights is much more calm. Hopefully this gives those getting tired out a rest period.

- Removed multiple Cyberdemons and a lot of Barons from the final fight so there is less clean-up after some initial in-fighting and the invuln is used up

- The enemy reduction of around 300 enemies chopped a third off of play-testing time for 100% kills and secrets so hopefully this helps!

 

Alright enough rambling on! Hopefully this version's a little nicer so I can get to the other difficulties, co-op and polishing to get this thing finished up.

Edited February 25, 2024 by PinkKittyRose

[DoomGappy]

So, we are almost finished with the maps! Can't believe we've made it this far. I'd like to say thank you once again to all the mappers who have been on this journey with us so far. Many amazing people have contributed with us to get this thing ready. As things stand, we need to know which skyboxes mappers want for their maps. We are not limiting skyboxes per episode like the original game. Here are the available skyboxes that you can choose. Be aware that the Plutonia skyboxes are only available for maps 31 and 32.
 

SKY1

SKY1B

SKY1C

SKY1D

SKY2

SKY2B

SKY2C

SKY3

SKY3B

SKY3C

SKY4

SKY4B

RSKY1

RSKY2

RSKY3

SKYPL1

SKYPL2

SKYPL3

Please choose your skies with the following format: MapXX - SKYXXX, for example, Map02 - SKY1C. Please don't quote the entire post, as there is too much content in it. We would also like to emphasize that communication on discord is much faster and allows mappers to get feedback more quickly. If you feel like discussing details of your maps, asking for help, or just talking with other mappers for the project, please feel free to join the server. Thanks again for the patience and hard work, and let's get this done!

In regards to the deadline, which was February 17th, we are in touch with all the mappers who are still finishing their maps, and so we will use as much time as necessary to polish up and work closely with them from here on out. We have received 26 great maps so far, and we're very close to finishing everything, with only 6 maps left! We are in the last parts of development, and so we will use the following weeks to put everything together. If you are a mapper and you feel like you can't finish your maps, or need help with mapping somehow, contact us or join the server. 

Stay tuned!

Edited February 16, 2024 by DoomGappy

[The Royal We]

@PinkKittyRose Just a suggestion, of course, but what do you think about using the SKY1D (the blue one) in your map 31/32? I think it would look beautiful. In addition, it would be in a color palette that matches the wolfenstein map I think

[The Royal We]

By the way, if anyone still wants to create a sky within the themes of the originals to add to the list, the time is now. You don't need to have created maps for the project to send in your skies, and they will all be credited. Once all the skies have been chosen, the list will be closed and no more skies will be added. 

[PinkKittyRose]

@DoomGappy I would like the following skies for my two maps:

MAP24 - Precipice of Torment: SKY3B
MAP32 - Go 1992 It: SKYPL3

 

Simple reasoning for each... SKY3B is the combination of Doom 1 & 2's Hell episode skies where House of Pain and Chasm reside, and SKYPL3 is the one used for the original Go 2 It.

 

Speaking of maps...

 

I finished up Go 1992 It. Made some final small tweaks to Ultra-Violence and added a bit more signposting to really try to make sure the player understands where to go with their keys. Other than that, I implemented the rest of the difficulties, including a co-op only variety, added co-op functionality itself, and just some general tidying up so that it SHOULD be completed. Each of the difficulties adjusts the monster count by like 300-350 so it does make a pretty big difference.

 

Inevitably I imagine a bug or two will crop up here and there like what happened with MAP24, but hey, for all extents and purposes the map is done and has been uploaded to the Google Drive. Jimmy's Plutonia to Doom 2 texture WAD is still packaged in the ZIP for ease of play-testing just in case.

MAP32 - Go 1992 It - Completed v1.0

 

Speaking of MAP24 and bugs... I also tossed a v1.4 of the map into the Google Drive that fixed a minor bug with a couple Stimpacks getting stuck out of reach after a platform lowers that I missed. I say this every time, but hopefully that is the last of the small bugs.

 

Both new uploads also contain some updates to the MAPINFO for each. I added a proper Par Time to each map based on my own UV Max run rounded up a little bit, so please use those par times in the final project.

 

If all goes well, I SHOULD be done with my promised contributions to the project, but I suspect inevitably at least one more thing will come up.

[DoomGappy]

 

Quote

MAP32 - Go 1992 It - Completed v1.0

Thanks for that, PKR. It will be stress tested soon to see if we find any bugs or softlocks. All the information has been duly noted.

Edited March 5, 2024 by DoomGappy