DoomLegacy 1.48.14

[wesleyjohnson]

Fences and ladders both could use better methods to construct.  They are so useful in mapping, and it is difficult enough to construct them.  There are tricks to construct something that looks and functions right, that work in isolation. Too often you find yourself trapped in a mapping situation where you cannot use the "trick" because it conflicts with some other construct.

That is another solution that I will have to investigate at some time.  Not enough hours for all the projects that I am working on.

 

DoomLegacy has had 3dfloors from long ago.  It will be interesting to see what they mean by 3Dlines, and will it be compatible with the 3dfloors.

 

 

[Mr.Rocket]

On 1/25/2024 at 12:39 AM, wesleyjohnson said:

I had not noticed the bots vrs dogs.  Were the bots and dogs both friends, or was it coop play.

It may be that the bots need to know about the MBF friend concept, cause I doubt that they do, as MBF did not have bots.

 

Yeah, in coop of course.

I like the concept where if you're in coop with bots, that the bots have helper dogs too. ;)

A quick example:

-opengl -iwad "E:\Doomports\IWADS\doom2.wad" +map MAP01 -skill 2 +addbot +addbot +addbot +dogs_cnt 6 +dogjump 1 +monkeys 1 -file dogs.wad

This is adding 3 bots and 6 dogs in a sp/coop game, map01 of Doom2 via command line. 

The bots will attack the dogs and kill them likely before shooting monsters, since it seems the bots assume the dogs are monsters too.

It's pretty heart breaking.. 

Could the bots assume that the MBF dogs are other players instead? 

 

Also since I bring this up, notice that adding 3 bots to the game from command line, I have to add +addbot 3 times while it's much easier to add 6 dogs with a single parameter (+dogs_cnt 6). It would be nice to have the same sort of parameter for the bots as well. eg (+bots_cnt 3) if that would be possible.

 

Thanks

 

 

Edited February 10 by Mr.Rocket

[camper]

I discovered the "Hi-Tech Hell 2 - Alien Tech" mod for DoomLegacy. I didn't know that DoomLegacy had so many interesting features! It's amazing!
P.S. By the way, it looks quite organic with the latest version of Freedom 0.13.

Edited February 17 by camper

[wesleyjohnson]

Am not ignoring the issues raised here, just cannot get time to get to them.

 

Have been working on MBF21 since early January (it seems like forever).

For something that was supposed to be easy to drop in for any port that that is close to prboom, it is not easy, nor does it drop in.

Major problems are that the developers spec is not complete, that DSDA implementation was allowed to leak into the required interface, and that the reference implementation (DSDA) does not distinguish the MBF21 code from anything else.  Everything has to be minutely examined to identify if it is really MBF21, or Hexen, or some UDMF, or UDMA, or some DSDA specific issue.

 

I hope this is worth it for somebody.

Some of the changes seem reasonable.  Some were already done in DoomLegacy, differently.  Then there are the others that are just forcing DSDA implementation decisions on other ports that try to conform with MBF21.

I have not even started dealing with the compatibility issues it raises.

 

 

 

[andrewj]

17 hours ago, wesleyjohnson said:

For something that was supposed to be easy to drop in for any port that that is close to prboom, it is not easy, nor does it drop in.

Well I don't know if anyone ever said MBF21 would be easy to implement, but I know from experience (helping a tiny bit to support it in EDGE-classic) that it definitely takes a huge amount of work to add all the features, test them, and make sure nothing else breaks.

[wesleyjohnson]

There were some sentences to that effect in the developers spec.

 

I had got to the point where I THOUGHT I had it done.  I started to make up patches, then by accident discovered the "special" functions in the dsda directory.

Now I am spending more days, trying to make sure it is done right.

All those references to DSDA patches in the MBF21 spec were useless.

They really assumed that everybody still does everything exactly as prboom did it.

It is really tempting to drop a few of the MBF21 code-pointers, as I have doubts that they would ever work correctly in any port other than DSDA.

Don't know how I am going to test this.  How will I know if I am seeing correct behavior.  I will make sure it does not throw errors at least.

 

 

Edited February 27 by wesleyjohnson

[wesleyjohnson]

Have committed the MBF21 code.  I have no idea if it works right.  I tested that it did not prevent normal play with Heretic.

Kind of worn out after that.  It was a constant everyday grind on MBF21 since mid January.

At one point, I was dealing with the set_flags and remove_flags functions.  They looked like they required the DSDA internal flags as args.

I only just discovered last week, that they did convert from MBF21 flag structure to DSDA-flags, but the hid the code that did that in another directory with all the other DSDA configuration functionality.  I only discovered that by accident.

I had already written functions that dealt with the expected 64 bit flag structures as args, because they had implemented it with 64 bit args.  Had to undo all that and put in different conversion functions.

Using DSDA code patches in the spec did not help at all, and DSDA as a reference implementation has way too much other stuff mixed in (HEXEN, UDMA, UDMF, etc) that confuses everything.

 

If anyone is interested, I have implemented MBF21 in DoomLegacy in "#ifdef MBF21".

You can identify the MBF21 code easily.

Edited March 3 by wesleyjohnson

[camper]

Started playing Blasphemer (Libre Heretic) in DoomLegacy. Everything works fine, although not without deviations. Is it possible to create weapon mods for this. As far as I understand, regular (for doom) dehacked patches should not work? What and where can I read about this?
 

[DooMAD]

On 3/5/2024 at 4:26 PM, camper said:

Started playing Blasphemer (Libre Heretic) in DoomLegacy. Everything works fine, although not without deviations. Is it possible to create weapon mods for this. As far as I understand, regular (for doom) dehacked patches should not work? What and where can I read about this?
 

There's an old editing guide via archive.org here:  https://web.archive.org/web/20090105180727/http://legacywiki.net/index.php/Using_Heretic_data

 

//EDIT:  Since archive.org only kept a partial backup of pages linked from that article, such as THINGS/FRAMES/FLAGS/etc, an offline copy can be downloaded from http://teamhellspawn.com/toxicfluff/LEP.zip

Edited March 9 by DooMAD
further source

[camper]

3 hours ago, DooMAD said:

There's an old editing guide via archive.org

Thanks a lot!

[wesleyjohnson]

Download the source code (SourceForge DoomLegacy), and look in the dehacked.c file.

There are comments that indicate the Heretic specific DEH/BEX keywords.

Too much to detail here, but have Heretic specific mobj flags:

LOWGRAVITY

WINDTHRUST

HERETICBOUNCE

THRUGHOST

FLOORCLIP

SPAWNFLOAT

NOTELEPORT

RIPPER

PUSHABLE

PASSMOBJ

BOSS

FIREDAMAGE

NODAMAGETHRUST

TELESTOMP

FLOATBOB

DONTDRAW

 

Heretic state ranges

  too complicated to put here

 

Heretic code-pointer functions

  too many to put here

 

I am not sure how the Heretic users are dealing with the thing numbers.

They probably just get the MT_ number from info.h.

In DoomLegacy the Heretic thing id numbers follow the Doom thing numbers, instead of overlaying them.

 

 

[camper]

2 hours ago, wesleyjohnson said:

In DoomLegacy the Heretic thing id numbers follow the Doom thing numbers, instead of overlaying them.

This is cool! I haven’t looked at the code yet, but can I ask a question: does this mean that the heretic weapon will follow the doom weapon and that you can use the doom weapon in the legacy heretic?

[wesleyjohnson]

There are things that I think could be cross used (Heretic in Doom), but not weapon behavior.  The heretic weapons and ammo replace the doom ones in the ammo tables.  They use the same id numbers at run-time.   Cross use was not expected and I cannot guarantee anything about what it might do.

 

I got the fix for bots attacking dogs committed.  I had forgotten how unruly those are.  It is like herding cats.  You have to have multiple dogs because it is impossible to even get them to follow you decently.

 

Fixed a missing  heretic table entry for the MBF21 code.

 

 

[camper]

4 hours ago, wesleyjohnson said:

The heretic weapons and ammo replace the doom ones in the ammo tables.

But it can also be modified?

[SilverMiner]

@wesleyjohnson do you know some wads heavy on doom Legacy features? (except hth2, I had played it)

[camper]

Funny case. I run newdoom1.wad (https://github.com/fragglet/squashware/releases/tag/squashware-1.1) in Doom Legacy 1.48.14 in Blasphemer and it launched!
Video

[wesleyjohnson]

DoomLegacy feature wads.  These are the names as I have them, which may be slightly different.

 

DoomLegacy_3ddemo.wad
Phobiata.wad    -- the classic, torches, bridges, fireflies

hth2.wad  -- very large scale story wad

Twilight  -- commando ops

3D_Horror.wad

DSV4

nimrod   -- OK, but was never sure what features it was using

vacuity.wad  -- Jive, sci-fi, bridges, 3d floors, medium size and tough

icerial2

Unholy Realms  (ur) - bridges, complex mech,, text says Prboom compatible
Nocturnus  -- DoomLegacy bridges, give yourself some armor at starting

sekkusu  -- sci-fi-ish looking, 3d floors

OldOrder - a BigAls wad,  weird, cannot remember any features it uses, but requires DL

spone2.wad -- 3d floors

CyberArena3.wad -- coop, lots of cyberdemons

 

Toxic_Pit.wad  -- deathmatch

wethbewe  -- deathmatch

sleeper.wad -- deathmatch
 

bspeek.wad  -- Blake Stone TC

 

-- Not sure about many of these as

FORCEKZ1.WAD

Bishop.wad

Compound.wad

mummy1.wad

mummyDM1.wad

SewagePlant.wad

h47/Slaught/Home.wad
lolly.wad

lplant.wad  -- BigAls wads, water

master.wad

warzone.wad  -- large war, cannot remember any features used

andy/ *    -- a series of simple wads using DoomLegacy features

mystic/*  -- a series of wads

newboxe.wad  -- boxing, in a ring

football.wad  -- sort of looked like football, but did not really work

 

Leprechn  -- support wad, very weird

maxskin   -- lots of skins

smiley.wad  -- weird noises, support wad

 

ChexQuest

ChexQuest - newmaps.wad   -- 3d floors, fireflies

 

 

-------

Blasphemer palette is Heretic, which is incompatible with Doom palette (in a colorful way).

Selecting "-game heretic" and it will change to the Heretic palette scheme.  You can use "-file doom2.wad" and it will be doom with the weird colors, and wrong weapons.

Edited April 22 by wesleyjohnson

[SilverMiner]

27 minutes ago, wesleyjohnson said:

DoomLegacy feature wads

Thanks!

[DooMAD]

If you download Vacuity, make sure it's this version:  http://www.teamhellspawn.com/vacuity.zip

There's a broken version still online in some places where the monsters can't shoot.

 

Links to all the Legacy-specific WADs by Mystic and Big_Al here:  http://www.teamhellspawn.com/doomheaven/html/wads2.htm