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[RC5] EVITERNITY II - RC5 Released!


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15 hours ago, CacoKnight said:

Thinking about the FOV again since I've been playing at 100 but I want to switch back to 90 and just let it go, are wads/maps made with the intention to be played at FOV 90? Do you know if any mapper tests with different view settings?

 

Thinking specifically about Eviternity 1, 2, Ancient Aliens etc.

Most source ports do widescreen by extending the horizontal FOV. It's only 90 degrees if you play at 4:3. At 16:9, the FOV is around 106 degrees.

 

I think the large majority of players use widescreen aspect ratios these days and I'd guess the it's the same for mappers. Therefore I posit that the majority of playtesting and tuning is done with wider FOV as well. So if you like to play with wider FOV (either by way of widescreen aspect ratio or via a FOV scaling factor) I would argue you're most likely getting the dev's intended experience.

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On RC2, Map03, I am able to access the secret level portal without finding all 4 secrets (GZDoom, Compat set to Default).

I did not access the invuln secret, and am able to climb over the torches (in multiple ways actually, the top step (which is blocked) allows me to step up onto it, then onto the torches and over onto the platform).

You can actually do it with zero secrets if you're really persistent! You need to access the first switch outside the yellow key soulsphere secret that lowers the first step, then you can get onto the second step, then up onto the torch, then up onto the other stairs, then up onto the platform! Then you can even use the green torches as a ramp up onto the geometry behind the secret exit portal and have an unintended access to the yellow key secret.

 

It is really easy to do with the yellow key, soulsphere and SSG secrets though, to the point where I did it by accident. I'd guess you'd probably want to fix the collision on the "hidden" stairs so the player model can't get up on them-- it can still be done relatively easily though, but is much less likely to be done by accident!

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A random idea, how a "mercy" mode can be implemented for map 33:

1) If the player chooses the mercy mode, then the conveyor effect proceeds even after the "Conveyor Techbase" is left behind, and the player's dead husk can be pulled right through the finish line without any inputs!

2) Penalty for choosing mercy mode - something like 5-10 seconds delay during every stage change (can be done by either slower conveyors, or 10-second delayed Boom doors blocking the path temporarily).

 

Effectively, the player forgoes any chance to get an actually good time on map 33 in exchange for a way to leave the level behind and proceed further even when not practicing the whole Laser-Dodging challenge. This will be a godsend for casual 100% Eviternity II d2all runs, while not penalizing masterful map 33 runners in any way, shape or form!

 

And dying with Mercy active would still bar the player from getting the <SuperGun>, which is the main reward for continuous playthrough of this level!

Edited by Azure_Horror

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23 hours ago, Dragonfly said:

 

Interesting, this is one of the lesser-taxing maps, especially so in the locations you've mentioned, plenty of 1 sided lines to cull background geometry surrounding you. Are you playing with any mods of any kind? I assume not, but I'm struggling to think why these locations in particular would have caused issues.

 

 

I wasn't able to reproduce the stuttering I saw on Map 16, could very well have been something dumb my machine was doing at the time.

 

I did manage to get Doomguy's chunky butt stuck behind these boxes in RC2 Map18, though.  Maybe not as big an issue if I knew anything about glides, but I don't, so idclip to the rescue.

 

Spoiler

et2_18_softlock.png.82cad5e5051736495493da7fd23849e3.png

 

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Paced myself with this one, took it one episode a day with a couple break days. Finished on UV with 100% kills in all 36 maps in thirteen and a half hours of total playtime. Considerably above my megaWAD average.

I'm not sure where to begin, what is there to say really? I think Eviternity II's place in the pantheon of all-time best Doom WADs was on lock long before you and your team actually published it and sure enough I loved it. Didn't love every second of it but it's absolutely up there as one of the greatest I've yet played. It's for certain better than the first. I guess I can rattle off a list of thoughts I have.

 

Praises:

Spoiler
  • Beautiful mapping, texture work, sound and music all around. Soundtrack is especially strong, need a full release of that on the double.
  • It's been some time since I played the first Eviternity all the way through but I think this is a harder set overall as any good direct sequel should be. I appreciate the heightened challenge.
  • I like every change to the returning custom enemies, particularly the Annihilator losing its hitscan attack allowing it to be inserted into more fights without killing the pace and/or enjoyment.
  • The sense of continuity throughout the set is sublime in both presentation and execution and I wish more WADs would do something like this that makes their worlds feel more alive and interconnected.
  • The Perforator is a worthy inclusion into the arsenal of weapons, looks and sounds good and just feels right to fire.
  • The new custom enemies feel just as home in Eviternity II as their returning brethren did in the first, no notes or complaints. They're all great and just work.
  • @Bri's contributions are some of the best he's yet made. My only wish is that there were more than three of them.
  • I'd like to single out the third and fifth secret maps in particular for successfully executing their creative ideas, with MAP35 being my pick for best of the secret maps overall.
  • Chef's kiss for the final boss who's name I'm not sure I got.
  • I dunno if I'd call this the best credits map ever put into a Doom WAD but making your credits map double as a sound test for all the music was a stroke of genius. (MAP36's music appears to be broken though. "Music D_KNOSIS not found".)

 

 

Critiques:

Spoiler
  • I played Eviternity II in GZDoom. While I encountered no bugs that weren't patched in the RC2 update the game noticeably struggled to push frames on maps 32 and 36 and during one specific attack in MAP30, you can probably guess which one. My PC is nothing amazing and rather old but nothing terrible either.
  • Of the new enemies introduced I think the least impactful is that green wizard guy who I never died to such that I could learn its name, even in the few times I decided to throw a fight I wasn't satisfied with my performance in it was never able to kill me itself before another enemy would. The few times it appeared it was nothing more than an ammo tax with an attached face-rocketing hazard.
  • A somewhat close second would be the Duke of Hell. This one's not a bad enemy at all, l love its visual design especially but its attack is comparatively wimpy and definitely lacking that special flavour that the other new additions like the Vile Imps and Astral Mancubi bring.
  • Someone please take a hedge trimmer to MAP18's yellow key courtyard. I kept getting stuck on the trees and bushes while trying to weave through the crowd and dodge Astral Arachnotron fire.
  • While I like the Perforator I find its use questionable. I get the impression that the Perforator is supposed to be nothing more than an instant win button for tough fights, a good reward for finding the secret maps. While I think there's nothing necessarily wrong with that I don't think the weapon gets to flex its full potential. It's worth noting that I played every map from a pistol start so I only got to use the Perforator in the seven maps it appears in. When all was said and done I was satisfied but was left wishing one of the secret maps (and by that I mean MAP36) really went all out and gave us a fight that could only realistically be done with the Perforator even if every other weapon were available with ample ammo. MAP36's finale comes close but that's only because of heavy Archvile presence and I think I could still manage that with the BFG were it in that map.
  • I think Eviternity II goes a bit soft in its final act. I'd have liked Episode 6 to be harder on Ultra-Violence. The boss while a visual and technical marvel I think could've had more demanding attacks in the vein of the Archvile flame attack with the direction-changing plasma bolts at the end. Patterns like that require more thought to dodge than good ol' circlestrafing.

 

 

Critiques 2 - Yoshi has opinions about MAP36:

Spoiler

 

Speaking of MAP36 in my mind it's uncontested for the title of weakest map in the set to the point that it's the only individual map I have any tangible, detailed gripes with. It's neither as challenging as I expected from the final secret map nor is it as challenging as the text screen before it implies it could be. The first room got my hopes up but they were slowly (and by God I mean slowly, this map drags. Took me 70 minutes to beat, longest of any in this set.) dashed. The map has about ten distinct fights but the enemies are spread too thin which combined with its immense size leads to the map feeling severely underpopulated. Further contributing to the map's lack of challenge is powerup saturation. I had at least six spheres that I wound up never needing once I was finished.

 

To the map's credit I think the fights are more hit than miss as far as creative setups go, my favourite part of the map is the climb up the blue skull building but a couple of them got on my nerves. The north east island was generally annoying and slow to clear but the west island is the worst should you tackle it before getting the rocket launcher or plasma rifle like I did. Astral Cacodemon overabundance and underpopulation of everything else in such a large space makes the fight boring, you end up herding 10+ surviving Astral Cacodemons that you have to slowly cut down with the SSG which takes a few minutes. All in all not a bad map, Kenosis is a fine map in a vacuum but as a map at the very end of Eviternity II it's a map I was pretty disappointed by. I only really enjoyed the blue skull section, the west wing of the central building and the ending.

 

 

Enjoy your Cacoward this time next year. You've all most certainly earned it and then some. :)

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1 hour ago, YoshiTheMage said:

Critiques 2 - Yoshi has opinions about MAP36:

 

Thank you for playing and taking the time to write this. As the author of map36 I instinctively want to answer point by point, but I think I might save that for a longer post like I did for the original Eviternity's map32. There are already some smaller things changed for RC3, hopefully due out shortly after I post this, that touch on some of the things you mention. But bottom line is I think maybe this map—it's vibe and what experience it's attempting to give the player—is simply not for you. Which is not only totally fine, but expected: Eviternity is—to quote Meowgi's stream—"a wad for normies" and as such it'd be a real mistake to push it into God Machine or later Sunder levels of difficulty for example. Your notes on lack of challenge makes me think you did it deathless which would be unusual but not inconcievable. Perhaps the eventual coop version could provide the extra bite, but it doesn't seem you're willing to give this any more of your time, which I won't argue with.

So good news is it's a secret map and not part of regular progression, which is where we took the most risk with more niche concepts.

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21 minutes ago, ukiro said:

Thank you for playing and taking the time to write this.

My pleasure, and thank you for the response. I can agree that the map is generally not my speed. I did pick up on Kenosis' heavier atmosphere when trekking through it, greatly helped by its MIDI but I couldn't shake the feeling of it being a bit of a pace breaker this late into the WAD what with all the forward momentum 28 and 29 give you. Though my post was more focused on criticism there were things I like about MAP36 and for what it's worth I do like it quite a bit more than Anagnorisis from the original Eviternity which no matter what I think is a bit long in the tooth. While it's true I do get a kick out of the likes of Sunlust I also agree that it'd be a mistake to push a WAD like Eviternity II that far. I wouldn't quite call myself a slaughter junkie, I've never even tried Sunder though I'm absolutely curious to see what a map of that calibre with Eviternity II's custom monsters could be like. I didn't finish the map deathless, that'd be insane for a first playthrough and I in no way think the map is that toothless but I probably could on a revisit with not too many attempts.

 

My least favourite Eviternity II map is still a good map that any other WAD would kill to have for itself. I will play Kenosis again some day, of that I'm certain. And since I have no better place to put this you did a great job updating OTEX. Mappers are gonna be all over that whenever it's released.

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6 hours ago, ukiro said:

As the author of map36 I instinctively want to answer point by point, but I think I might save that for a longer post like I did for the original Eviternity's map32.

I look forward to this! I have my own theories about the themes and meaning of the map and would love to hear from the author.

 

At first I was disappointed that Kenosis isn't a slaughterfest, which I'd assumed it would be from the monster count. But I think the sparseness of the encounters adds to a tremendous feeling of building dread, desolation and lonlieness. Constantly blasting imps while going between the large structures would make it feel considerably less horrifying.

 

The argument could be made that if maps 26 and 29 were swapped in the order it would help with pacing. 26 was such a crescendo, it makes sense as a penultimate map. And this swap would bring Kenosis earlier in the progression. Of course it's far easier to criticise than create and there are, no doubt, good reasons behind the WAD's level order which I'm not aware of. 26 is a strong statement of intent for the last chapter.

Edited by Lord Belial

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Ohhh nice work on a snappy update. I will start my ch4 onward run with this, even if I will miss the giga-perforator just a little bit~

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11 minutes ago, Dragonfly said:

MAP37:
Something was improved.

Not suspicious at all.

Edited by Terrcraft
fixed quote

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I've been made aware that I forgot to implement the "VILE/" frames correctly, and there's a couple of typos in the changelog - these issues will be amended and reuploaded within the next day, possibly less. For now though, I'm gonna sleep. 😅

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Well, that new status bar is quite a change!  Very distinct from the original now.  I like the new color scheme quite a bit!

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NOT GONNA LIE, I kinda liked the previous status bar more but not a big deal at all of course, this one rocks too > no I don't, this new one is beautiful! Took me a bit to adjust.

 

and wow what a changelog! Awesome work thank you!

Edited by CacoKnight

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Please note: Map36 is broken in RC3 (you think you've tested everything...!).  We'll push out a hotfix, along with removing the duplicate sprite files, within the next day.

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I think I'm never making a map this big again. testing is a nightmare and sooo many things can break. Anyway, I *think* it's sorted out now and we'll just do a bit more testing and then another update.

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13 hours ago, Xenaero said:

Ohhh nice work on a snappy update. I will start my ch4 onward run with this, even if I will miss the giga-perforator just a little bit~

 

Hah, I know, I'm gonna keep the earlier builds around just so I can feel like a superhero every once in a while.

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40 minutes ago, MoiraHeart said:

Awww, I thought MAP04's goofy ahh guitar was fully intentional. Gotta hang on to my RC1...

 

I mean, it's intentional for sure, I was just a liiiittle bit overzealous with the volume mixing. You can hear the amended (but still a lil goofy) version here.

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Serious bug in map36 DSDA Doom RC4

 

Player starts the map but does not scroll. Stays at sector 3570 which is not set to scroll.

I fixed this by just moving T5145 1 map unit north, to place it at sector 6279.

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This is a small quibble in Map 25, it's almost impossible to grab the on the railing post because you'll get flung off the arena thanks to doom's collision.

 

(I also feel the rocket launcher is totally pointless because the ghosts in the arena get in your face a lot.)

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16 minutes ago, hawkwind said:

Serious bug in map36 DSDA Doom RC4

 

Player starts the map but does not scroll. Stays at sector 3570 which is not set to scroll.

I fixed this by just moving T5145 1 map unit north, to place it at sector 6279.

 

I just confirmed the MAP36 intro portal conveyor sector behaves as intended in RC4 using dsda-doom v0.27.3 (Nov 5) and v0.27.5 (Dec 3).

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It was also the last thing I tested before release. I've re-tested, it works in both target ports (DSDA, GZDoom). As such, I'm 99% certain that's a case of wrong port and/or settings.

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23 hours ago, Dragonfly said:
Spoiler

also placing an extra BFG pickup also added for SR50 ballers who can pull off the fancy immediate jump to get into this area

 

FY2GUnoXwAEKFxI.jpg

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8 minutes ago, Dragonfly said:

It was also the last thing I tested before release. I've re-tested, it works in both target ports (DSDA, GZDoom). As such, I'm 99% certain that's a case of wrong port and/or settings.

I don't know what happened there. Tried it again and it does work as intended. That said, if wanting to remove that "white" screen at the start, moving player 1 start 1 map unit north removes that.

Edited by hawkwind

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