[RC5] EVITERNITY II - RC5 Released!

[Dragonfly]

4 hours ago, JollyRoger said:

I hope Dragonfly doesn't mind if I take inspiration from MAP35 for my own project

 

I'm not the first to fuck about with silent teleporter shenanigans, I won't be the last either - go for it, heh.

 

 

4 hours ago, JollyRoger said:

That would be it for my initial, disorganised thoughts. Sorry if this has been asked before, but when should we expect the final release?

 

When it's done™ - No sooner, no later.

 

 

2 hours ago, Budoka said:

Is the blue key fight in Maelstrom intended to be this cheesable?

When things like this are found I ask myself: "Does this break the map? Is this the way *everyone* will play? Is that really a problem?". If I answer no to all three, as I am here, it gets the patented Leave It In treatment. Same goes for speedrunner skips and other such discoveries - I don't see a benefit in taking away player agency - if you think cheesing it is boring, then why are you doing that? :)

 

 

2 hours ago, Budoka said:

Also the gameplay in MAP27 was just weird in general.

This means nothing  to me without further elaboration. Weird how, exactly? I'm open to making changes but need more defined feedback to even begin to interpret what changes, if any, should be made.

Edited January 8 by Dragonfly

[Budoka]

On the cheesing thing, I've always consistently stated that I'm of the exact opposite school of thought. If I can take advantage of something in a game I will, and I - WILL - label it a design flaw if I come away thinking it gives the player an excessive advantage. That's just how it is. See some of my posts in the Resurgence and Requiem megawad club threads for example. You don't need to actually go looking for them because well, who does that, but just know it's there.

 

The only exception I've ever made is for some JRPG superboss fights where I used some self-restrictions in order to show a bunch of payers complaining that they were badly conceived fights with only one winning strategy that they had in fact, far from only one winning strategy. Speaking of which, your argument reminds me of how some FF8 fans will argue the game becomes challenging... if you intentionally don't make use of most of the stuff that's in the game, like that's supposed to be an actual point.

 

As for MAP27, I wasn't specific because the way the level works I don't think there's much than can be fixed. The locked arenas at the start and at the end are fine (the latter especially), but the entire journey between them has awkward and frustrating navigation, meanwhile the enemies that ambush the payer throughout it are mostly sitting ducks with even a modicum of adaptation. But I don't think it's that big a deal, I mean, Eviternity II has 36 of some of the highest quality levels ever released for Doom II, so it really shouldn't be much of a concern if a small handful of them aren't completely flawless. And were I in your shoes that I certainly wouldn't rework an entire level because of a single person's feedback. Still, whatever I come away thinking from my playthrough experience is what I'm going to say. If anything I'm feeling kind of blindsided by how intense your reaction is...

 

Edited January 8 by Budoka

[Dragonfly]

Thank you for elaborating!

 

3 hours ago, Budoka said:

were I in your shoes that I certainly wouldn't rework an entire level because of a single person's feedback.

 

Not my intent to change everything at the first mention of someone not liking it, of course, but it's worth asking in case it highlights obvious improvements. :)

 

 

3 hours ago, Budoka said:

If anything I'm feeling kind of blindsided by how intense your reaction is...

 

Sorry about that! I re-read the message and I see the tone of voice I would have spoken with is really not present in the written words - a lot of nuance in conversational tone is lost when there's no voice attached to it; I guess I should use emoji more. 😅

[Voide]

Just finished playing though it yesterday and made an account here to tell you what a wonderful WAD this is. Absolutely my favorite one ever, improving over Eviternity in many ways. The maps are pretty much all awesome, including the secret ones, great monster roster, amazing music - congratulations to everyone involved.

 

Not much more to say for now but I do wonder if I agree with JollyRoger's assessment of map 36 killing the momentum of the chapter - you indeed go through four long, complex levels of the last chapter, then you get this massive, hellish map that is completely unlike any other, and then get back to the episode pretty much for a single combat. Did you consider earlier placement of the secret exit at all at any point? On the other hand it did feel good to finish that behemoth of a map, then get back exhausted from it to do that final battle so I'm interested what others think about it.

Edited January 8 by Voide

[ukiro]

Chapter 6 secret exit being in 29 is perhaps a little arbitrary, but it’s also in in the penultimate levels of chapters 2 and 3. And every secret level deviates from the chapter theme, so that too is par for the course. Objectively, the journey could of course have been made thematically more coherent. But other than swapping maps 31 and 33 (yes, 33 was originally the chapter 1 secret map), all levels were left in the slot they were assigned. Thus any overall cadence planning is loose at best; we just worked hard to get all maps done and that was it. 
 

im not sure chapter 6 would have felt better paced with map36 accessed elsewhere. After 26 it’s be weird to starkly shift themes two maps in a row. Maybe after 27 or 28, but then 29, the slot normally occupied by a long epic journey, would feel puny coming off of 36. 
 

also, after 26 only a few people have the perforator. After 36 everyone has it. That’d skew balance quite a bit.  
 

Not saying our choice is the perfect one, but there you have some context and background at least. 

Edited January 8 by ukiro

[Scorcher]

MAP12 RC5

This sector has the wrong sky texture. (Unless it's intentional?)

Spoiler

MAP20

Youtuber brendondle found some non-unpegged textures in the blue skull key area. (26:35)

Spoiler

 

 

Edited January 8 by Scorcher

[DJVCardMaster]

MAP34 SOFTLOCK:

I think this was addressed, but you can get softlocked in MAP34 right before the end, if you happen to keep exploring areas and triggering the raising bars that block the starting area to the rest of the map, and you decide  not to hit the red key switch for the final fight. I did forget to screencap this issue, but I'm talking about these bars:
 

Spoiler

It is really easy to trigger, don't fall through the main area without hitting the red switch (If you backtracked a bit) or you will be stuck.

[Voide]

2 hours ago, ukiro said:

Not saying our choice is the perfect one, but there you have some context and background at least. 

 

Thanks, makes sense. Overall I think it worked fine, but I remember I did have that thought when I started playing Kenosis, that it seemed like such a journey that I might forget where I was in the WAD ;)

 

Also, one question about that map for you:

Spoiler

While playing I found three eye symbols that you could reach somewhere outside in the lower rock formations, all of them dissapeared (teleported?) when I pressed a use button near them. Are they of any significance? If yes, did I find them all and what were they supposed to do?

 

All in all, an amazing map, great job. If they ever do Eviternity 3 I certainly hope to see another map from you there.

Edited January 8 by Voide

[JollyRoger]

1 hour ago, Voide said:

you indeed go through four long, complex levels of the last chapter

I'd only call map 26 long and complex, the rest felt comparatively brisk, which is not a complaint - I really like the pacing of the non-secret maps of the final episode. I felt like Kenosis would have been a nicer continuation of the map26th's theme for players who have thoroughly explored it and are itching for more challenge, they would then get dropped right back to the build up for the finale.

 

Anyway, that's just my personal preference, which may have been influenced by the fact that I was determined to finish the whole last episode in an evening and that I tend to play continuously instead of pistol starting.

[Voide]

10 minutes ago, JollyRoger said:

I'd only call map 26 long and complex, the rest felt comparatively brisk, which is not a complaint - I really like the pacing of the non-secret maps of the final episode. I felt like Kenosis would have been a nicer continuation of the map26th's theme for players who have thoroughly explored it and are itching for more challenge, they would then get dropped right back to the build up for the finale.

 

Anyway, that's just my personal preference, which may have been influenced by the fact that I was determined to finish the whole last episode in an evening and that I tend to play continuously instead of pistol starting.

 

True, I exaggerated a bit - in any case you go through four standard length maps while the last one is much smaller and shorter in comparison.

I could see Kenosis working well after map 26's trials, but it would indeed constitute a stark shift in the theme twice in a row, like Ukiro noted. Would've been an interesting placement for sure.

Edited January 8 by Voide

[ukiro]

The evil eyes in Kenosis are… something for the player to explore. In due time someone will post more info publicly, inevitably, but I hope those wishing to figure it out for themselves can manage to avoid spoilers. 

[Dragonfly]

1 hour ago, DJVCardMaster said:

MAP34 SOFTLOCK:

 

Play on the latest version - This was already fixed.

[Voide]

1 hour ago, ukiro said:

The evil eyes in Kenosis are… something for the player to explore. In due time someone will post more info publicly, inevitably, but I hope those wishing to figure it out for themselves can manage to avoid spoilers. 

 

Very well, time to replay the map then. I suppose I'd like to find it out myself as well so perhaps I asked too many questions, thanks for confirming that there is potentially something there to explore further for me.

Edited January 8 by Voide

[worldoffood]

Look who I found behind an armor bonus in map 14! Assuming it's just a silly easter egg?

[Tristan]

Couple more music videos up!

 

[Zieleslaw]

On 1/8/2024 at 2:16 PM, ukiro said:

Chapter 6 secret exit being in 29 is perhaps a little arbitrary, but it’s also in in the penultimate levels of chapters 2 and 3. And every secret level deviates from the chapter theme, so that too is par for the course. Objectively, the journey could of course have been made thematically more coherent. But other than swapping maps 31 and 33 (yes, 33 was originally the chapter 1 secret map), all levels were left in the slot they were assigned. Thus any overall cadence planning is loose at best; we just worked hard to get all maps done and that was it. 
 

im not sure chapter 6 would have felt better paced with map36 accessed elsewhere. After 26 it’s be weird to starkly shift themes two maps in a row. Maybe after 27 or 28, but then 29, the slot normally occupied by a long epic journey, would feel puny coming off of 36. 
 

also, after 26 only a few people have the perforator. After 36 everyone has it. That’d skew balance quite a bit.  
 

Not saying our choice is the perfect one, but there you have some context and background at least. 

I agree with your Kenosis placement decision - I spoilered myself with MAP30 earlier, so I knew it was short (though this music is awesome!) and after MAP29 I thought, a tiny bit let down, "That's how it ends?..."

And then Ukiro's map started. And ended. And I was completely satisfied with WAD ending with MAP36 and MAP30.

[CacoKnight]

He FINALLY made it there :)

 

Spoiler

 

 

Edited January 11 by CacoKnight

[Lightstream]

potential map 27 bug. mega armor did not spawn when pressing the switch. the secret still registered however. whats odd is a different playthrough spawned it. DSDA doom 0.27.5. evi 2 rc5. kinda reminds me of how some enemies refuse to spawn in on evi 1 map 25. more noticeable on uv fast for evi 1 map 25.

[Magnusblitz]

Late to the party, but just downloaded it and I'm getting a crash to desktop every time when I jump in the giant pit in the opening area of the first map.

 

WAD is RC5, running in GZDoom 4.11.3.a

 

(Just checked and it works fine in DSDA 0.27.5, but I've never used it before and that raises a different problem in getting the mouselook to feel right...)

Edited January 12 by Magnusblitz

[Scuba Steve]

soulfix.zip

[faceplant641]

Map 36 question:

Spoiler

What do those disappearing Sigil eye switches do?  And how many are there?  I managed to find 4, but it was only after I'd killed everything so if they had some effect on the monster population I totally missed it.

 

Nevermind, just saw the same question asked upstream.

Edited January 12 by faceplant641

[faceplant641]

Anyway, that was a brilliant map.  At first I was kinda let down, Anagnorisis is an all-timer for me and I was hoping for Anagnorisis II.  This was like when your favorite band changes styles on their new album, and you don't like it at first, but by the end you totally get what they're going for and it's awesome.

[ukiro]

Following anagnorisis was super daunting. I should have released other stuff in the meantime to dilute the expectations but life got in the way. Glad to hear it was still enjoyable! 

[faceplant641]

I'm totally fine if you just want to show up every few years to blow everyone's mind.

[faceplant641]

And that's Eviternity II done.  UV Max-ish in around 26 hours of gameplay, with lots of futzing around, secret hunting, and taking in the sights.  The only parts I couldn't 100% were one of the secret fights in Map15, and I didn't find any of the 7 secrets in Map26, but I think by the time I survived to the end of that one I just wanted to move on :)

 

What can I say even about this one?  It has everything.  Dramatic set pieces, wide open choose-your-own-adventures, puzzle maps, concept maps, slaughter...even a tolerable Doom boss fight!  Finally!  

 

The music, art direction, and technical wizardry are all unlike anything I've experienced in this hobby.  I do have some minor quibbles, a couple maps in the third and fourth chapters didn't stick the landing for me, but that's more of a preference thing than any real design shortcoming.  None were ones I'd put on any sort of "skip" list.  

 

Thank you to everyone who contributed to this.  Truly, it was a pleasure to play.

[akolai]

a couple more reports, for old time's sake.
 

Spoiler

both on 33. first off, another midtex bleed, on the transition between the second and third sections:


a little more importantly though, if you end the map with the blast wave too close behind you, it can follow you outside:

 

 

[RICHIE B]

Um, I think I found an ishoo too...

 

It's on Map 09 Quetzalcoatl. I entered the east side of the map through the back, by dropping down by the ledge by the normal exit - instead of going across the bridge like I think is intended.

 

Working my way up and around to the square mancubus room with the soulsphere on the platform in the middle (still haven't figured out how to get that btw), I found I seemed to have got locked in, cos the bars didn't lower and I couldn't get out. I couldn't find a way to get them to lower, even though they seemed to have done previously when I'd gone that route.

 

This was on RC2 but I didn't see anything in the changelog.

 

Edited January 14 by RICHIE B

[Dragonfly]

2 hours ago, RICHIE B said:

even though they seemed to have done previously when I'd gone that route.

 

You need to hit the switch which is roughly where you entered

[unraveler]

Curious question to anyone who played MAP32

Spoiler

How comes, any YouTube video I've seen - managed to obtain the red key the hard way? When I played this map, I tried to do so 2 times, then I stop to think: "Hold on, this isn't Sunderlust, no way that I'm expected to do a pitch-perfect SR50 under a Cyberdemon's fire!", and as I thought, a hidden switch nearby raised a platform that made this jump far more accessible.

 

[SCF]

42 minutes ago, unraveler said:

Curious question to anyone who played MAP32

  Hide contents

How comes, any YouTube video I've seen - managed to obtain the red key the hard way? When I played this map, I tried to do so 2 times, then I stop to think: "Hold on, this isn't Sunderlust, no way that I'm expected to do a pitch-perfect SR50 under a Cyberdemon's fire!", and as I thought, a hidden switch nearby raised a platform that made this jump far more accessible.

 

 

Spoiler

I didn't go for the SR50 myself but I did get stumped by that secret. I think it's a combination of things:

• It's extremely easy to get hit by the cyberdemon while you're looking for secrets, so people may give up more quickly or never bother doing a thorough search of the area.
• There's another secret right next to the switch (supercharge in the water), and it's not common to have two secrets so close together.
• The cliff's edge is the obvious focal point. There's even a hole in the fence at the exact right location. Although you normally can't quite make the jump, you may continue looking on top of the cliff for another way.

And if you realize an SR50 jump would work, it's "easier" than to search for something you have no clue where to find.