SIGIL II - Episode 6

[Captain Keen]

I gotta say, from what I’ve seen of Romero mapping Sigil II and the recent interview with Apogee, this looks like his best collection of maps this century. The visual design is interesting, it’s got some cool stuff in it like graves, and he isn’t just copying the first Sigil in aesthetics. The maps look very open and engaging. I think he really seems to enjoy doing this beyond just a way to make some easy nostalgia money. You can still see that Knee-Deep ethos in the design but it’s still got some interesting modern sensibilities. Doom really is just a fantastic game with timeless and adaptable mechanics.

 

Anyway, in a year that has given us some incredible AAA releases like Phantom Liberty (or Zelda/BG3 if you’re into those), Sigil II is still one of my most anticipated gaming events for 2023. I’ll probably pick up a physical copy if it’s not sold out already. And yes, poor Doom guy just can’t seem to get back home to Earth. That’s what happens when you use Ticketmaster to get out of Hell.

[NiGHTMARE]

On 11/4/2023 at 1:05 AM, Tycitron said:

With Sigil 2 coming out the only thing i can think about is how many times Doomguy is being prevented  from going to earth for Doom 2 lol. If you consider SIGIL 1 canon alongside Thy Flesh Consumed, There have been like instances of the text screens of Inferno, Thy Flesh Consumed, and Sigil that are like "Up next is earth!" and then another episode drops preventing Doomguy from reaching earth lol. Poor guy can't catch a break and reach earth, he keeps being sent back to hell.

 

To be fair, Thy Flesh Consumed is supposed to be on Earth. Also, Sigil & Sigil II don't necessarily take place after TFC, just look at Wolfenstein 3D where episodes 4-6 are set before episodes 1-3 and Spear of Destiny takes place before episode 4.

[Tycitron]

24 minutes ago, NiGHTMARE said:

 

To be fair, Thy Flesh Consumed is supposed to be on Earth. Also, Sigil & Sigil II don't necessarily take place after TFC, just look at Wolfenstein 3D where episodes 4-6 are set before episodes 1-3 and Spear of Destiny takes place before episode 4.

No, Sigil is John Romeros semi-official 5th episode which is directly after Thy Flesh Consumed as stated here:

[Tangra]

Romero's maps might not be the best by todays standards (though i think they're quite close), they will always have something that no community wad can provide - Romero's personality and his experience as a veteran in the gaming industry. While most (if not all) community wads draw inspirations from each other, and they stand on the shoulders of what came before, that's not the case for Romero's work... It's just his design philosophy and style through and through, so love them or hate them, his maps will always have a unique feel that cannot be found anywhere else.

[SuyaSSS]

Oh yeah! this reminds that I still need to complete SIGIL 

[DreadWanderer]

10 hours ago, Rudolph said:

It does make sense, considering how many Doom II levels do feature a similar blend of textures.

That would be one of my main indirect arguments for TFC being on Earth. I view it as a sort of prequel to Doom II. In any case, I think it's important to understand the context of it all: the fact that id most likely did not expect Doom to be such a smashing success, and as a result they were put in a position to create more content without worrying too much about a logical sequence of events in the story. Make the levels, sketch out a few lines of plot, release it. As with other games, I like how the fandom can connect the dots or piece together something which makes sense.

[Gez]

Episode 4's skybox is directly taken from Episode 3's end screen, the one with the bunny and the burning city, so episode 4 is meant to happen on Earth.

[Captain Keen]

4 hours ago, DreadWanderer said:

That would be one of my main indirect arguments for TFC being on Earth. I view it as a sort of prequel to Doom II. In any case, I think it's important to understand the context of it all: the fact that id most likely did not expect Doom to be such a smashing success, and as a result they were put in a position to create more content without worrying too much about a logical sequence of events in the story. Make the levels, sketch out a few lines of plot, release it. As with other games, I like how the fandom can connect the dots or piece together something which makes sense.

Yep. I guess you could say Doomguy goes from Hell to Earth in E4, then gets sucked back into Hell for the Sigils before finally making it back to Earth again in Doom II, and this time reaching the cities. But as you say, they never thought any of this out that much. It doesn’t really have to make sense. I mean the skybox makes no sense for Knee-Deep. That looks like Earth, if anything. And it’s completely great anyway!

["JL" was too short]

4 hours ago, DreadWanderer said:

That would be one of my main indirect arguments for TFC being on Earth. I view it as a sort of prequel to Doom II. In any case, I think it's important to understand the context of it all: the fact that id most likely did not expect Doom to be such a smashing success, and as a result they were put in a position to create more content without worrying too much about a logical sequence of events in the story. Make the levels, sketch out a few lines of plot, release it. As with other games, I like how the fandom can connect the dots or piece together something which makes sense.

 

Both of id's immediately preceding game series (Keen, Wolfenstein) had taken the model of an initial shareware game being followed by one or more sequels.  Perhaps the success of Doom relative to those two came as a surprise, but I see no reason to think they would have been caught flat-footed by the idea that Doom would get a rapid sequel.

[Rudolph]

Then again, unlike Wolfenstein 3D, Doom only got one extra episode, which suggests that Id Software was either unprepared or unwilling to linger on the game. Still, I wonder if they could have gotten away with giving Doom a Nocturnal Missions-size expansion instead of a standalone sequel and saving the title "Doom II" for a brand-new game - maybe their first 3D game, instead of Quake?

Edited November 5, 2023 by Rudolph

[DreadWanderer]

1 hour ago, Captain Keen said:

Yep. I guess you could say Doomguy goes from Hell to Earth in E4, then gets sucked back into Hell for the Sigils before finally making it back to Earth again in Doom II, and this time reaching the cities. But as you say, they never thought any of this out that much. It doesn’t really have to make sense. I mean the skybox makes no sense for Knee-Deep. That looks like Earth, if anything. And it’s completely great anyway!

 

My understanding was that, chronologically speaking, Sigil is akin to an Episode 3.5 where he gets tricked at the end of Inferno and actually reaches Baphomet's realm before finally making it to Earth in E4, but this is an interpretation that also works.

Edited November 5, 2023 by DreadWanderer

[DreadWanderer]

30 minutes ago, jerrysheppy said:

 

Both of id's immediately preceding game series (Keen, Wolfenstein) had taken the model of an initial shareware game being followed by one or more sequels.  Perhaps the success of Doom relative to those two came as a surprise, but I see no reason to think they would have been caught flat-footed by the idea that Doom would get a rapid sequel.

 

I wouldn't necessarily say flat-footed. I agree with the first part, that compared to Keen and Wolfenstein, Doom was a smash hit. A bit like how Nirvana's Bleach did send some waves in the underground, but Nevermind was a bolt from the blue commercially speaking. Id's intentions and ambitions with Doom were clearly aimed at making something bigger and more complex of course. Crucial to remember that TFC came out after Doom II, so it's possible that the team simply got into that rhythm of focusing on level design and not story. Maybe they were also a bit exhausted since Doom II's development took nine months, which is incredible to me.

 

I'd probably have to read "Masters of Doom" to offer a more informed opinion, I heard a lot of good stuff about it.

[Trar]

Sigil II is one of the few videogame-related things I've preordered. I should probably play through the original Sigil now, lmao.

[pcorf]

On 11/4/2023 at 8:56 PM, bioshockfan90 said:

I'm curious if the episode will keep using the bright red hellcracks and evil eyes. I know he's been streaming development on youtube, can anyone confirm if these features were shown during a stream?

 

Yes for what I have seen on his videos the signature hellcracks and eyes will be there. When I worked on my SIGIL inspired episode I made sure the hellcracks were no more than 24 deep in the playable area so enemies could pass over them.

 

Not really a fan of FIREWAL* used in more than 112 in height though. Maybe there should be a 128 height FIREWAL* that loops vertically (top 64 half and bottom 64 half is the top flipped symmetrically), sort of a cross between REDWALL1 and FIREWAL*.

[LadyMistDragon]

On 11/4/2023 at 11:41 AM, Plerb said:

While Sandy Petersen might not be making any more Doom levels, I was scrolling through Tom Hall's twitter just now and saw this:

https://nitter.cz/ThatTomHall/status/1720808082807095629#m

:D

Really? Guess he's ahead of Sandy in that regard (also, it's not like Sandy wouldn't but unless he retires from running his tabletop company, it's not happening).

[Lila Feuer]

 

3 hours ago, LadyMistDragon said:

Really? Guess he's ahead of Sandy in that regard

Inb4 Doom the Way Tom Hall Would.

[Agent Strange]

Ohh I'd love to see Tom Hall make some new levels. Doubt it'd happen but it'd be cool if American McGee made some levels too. Feel bad for him after getting rejected by EA.

[Fireseth]

Here is the Apogee interview @Captain Keen mentioned earlier that has John Romero discussing SIGIL II. He even showcases E7M6 E6M6 around the 15:37 mark.

 

 

Edited November 6, 2023 by Fireseth

[Rudolph]

9 minutes ago, Fireseth said:

E7M6

Do you not mean "E6M6"? Or is Romero already hinting at Sigil III?

[Fireseth]

19 minutes ago, Rudolph said:

Do you not mean "E6M6"? Or is Romero already hinting at Sigil III?

Not the first time I made a pretty big typo on this thread. Back in September, I thought December came right after and that SIGIL II was releasing in a month!

[Gmg]

Nice news. Will this wad be free to download like Sigil 1?

[Rudolph]

12 minutes ago, Gmg said:

Nice news. Will this wad be free to download like Sigil 1?

Yes, it will. I do not think John Romero could get away with directly charging money for it anyway.

[Lila Feuer]

5 hours ago, Rudolph said:

I do not think John Romero could get away with directly charging money for it anyway.

 

Just a lock of our hair and a vial of our blood will do.

[ReaperAA]

Slightly disappointed that Sigil 2 is a Doom 1 wad instead of Doom 2.

 

Still I look forward to it as (judging from Romero's streams) it does seem like a step above Sigil when it comes to visuals and layout.

[ludicrous_peridot]

So, since people have bought the floppies up literary a few hours (minutes?) the pre-release was opened, would a community companion floppy be a desired thing?

 

What I mean is that you download an image, write it to the second floppy you have, bring to that retro machine that you intended to put Romero's floppy into, and it not only gives you the PWAD to copy, but also a limit removing port tot play the PWAD and even asks for the directory of your IWAD and such in the process... like you know, they did in the 90-s.

 

Any thoughts?

 

(and yes, it will most likely ask for Romero's floppy to be put in as it installs)

[tatsu91]

On 11/7/2023 at 1:42 AM, ReaperAA said:

Slightly disappointed that Sigil 2 is a Doom 1 wad instead of Doom 2.

 

Still I look forward to it as (judging from Romero's streams) it does seem like a step above Sigil when it comes to visuals and layout.

Romero is making a Doom 2 Wad this is intended as a 30th anniversary of Doom 1 thing i would not be surprised if his Doom 2 wad is the 30th anniversary of that.

[xScavengerWolfx]

I wonder if Mt. Pain is going to cover this on Dean of Doom? And i'm kinda disappointed bucket head didn't come back to make the OST again like he did for the first Sigil wad.

 

Plus PERSONAL option here: I listen to that Thorr guy.....eh his style of music is ok but not really my cup of tea and i listen to all of there albums they made on spotify.

[CompaVictor99]

in two days sigil 2 is gonna release lol

[june gloom]

Other than BTSX Ep 3 this is the Doom release I'm waiting for most. Time to replay the original.

[Gez]

On samedi 11 novembre 2023 at 10:47 PM, tatsu91 said:

Romero is making a Doom 2 Wad this is intended as a 30th anniversary of Doom 1 thing i would not be surprised if his Doom 2 wad is the 30th anniversary of that.

Timeline makes it unlikely. He would have to finish it by September 30, 2024. Which would be an impressive achievement given that Sigil 1 was released four years ago.

 

Unless he has nothing else to work on for the next year, I don't see the Doom II project (apparently named Hellion now) being done in time for Doom II's tricenary.