SIGIL II - Episode 6

[Xeogred]

A zombie being tucked away in some of the secrets is really amusing. That and some of the cybers seem like Romero is definitely toying with the 100%'ers out there haha...

 

Maybe that's why there's some really out of the way weird armor pickups sometimes too.

Edited December 16, 2023 by Xeogred

[dgondos]

In case someone else is planning to play this on DOS, I hacked in support for it in Sakitoshi's MBF fork: https://github.com/Sakitoshi/mbf_sigil/pull/1 :)

 

It seems to work, but have not yet had much time to test it out.

[Rudolph]

Finally (properly) finished SIGIL II today.

 

I have only four words to say: Fuck You, John Romero. XD

[Pistoolkip]

Meme with spoilers for E6M8

 

Spoiler

https://imgflip.com/i/89l261

you teleport into the arena, get the spidermastermind and the cyberdemons to infight, then teleport out of the arena and just wait for one of them to die. But because they are on lifts, it takes a while. I just timed it at 4 minutes. That's four minutes of you just standing around and waiting

 

Edited December 16, 2023 by Pistoolkip

[Clippy]

o I didn't know there was a thread - anywho I had a look

 

like @Pistoolkip suggest I should prolly do HMP on blind, yes? lol

 

my fave part was John Romero approving using torched as cover - fuck YAH GZDOOM 4 life

 

 

[Pistoolkip]

2 minutes ago, Clippy said:

o I didn't know there was a thread - anywho I had a look

 

like @Pistoolkip suggest I should prolly do HMP on blind, yes? lol

 

my fave part was John Romero approving using torched as cover - fuck YAH GZDOOM 4 life

 

 

Romero tests in GZDoom

So he can use torches for cover and not worry about sticky walls, slimetrails, etc


 

[plums]

6 minutes ago, Pistoolkip said:

Meme with spoilers for E6M8

Yeah that fight was the low-point of the wad for me, for sure.
 

Spoiler

The fact that he gave the spiderdemon extra health for it is even worse; it's going to make dedicated support for Sigil 2 as a 6th episode of UD more work for source port authors, if they want to try to do that, and the fight would've been a bit less cheesable if he just had three spiderdemons warp in one after the other.

 

 

[Clippy]

6 minutes ago, Pistoolkip said:

Romero tests in GZDoom

So he can use torches for cover and not worry about sticky walls, slimetrails, etc


 

 

God's source port

[Rudolph]

I just hope Hellion is going to be more reasonable in terms of difficulty - like SIGIL 1 (mostly) was.

[Jayextee]

1 hour ago, Pistoolkip said:

Meme with spoilers for E6M8

Hah, this is basically how I beat the thing; with the exception that I watched the last cybie and spidey fight and realised that, yeah, that's gotta be some deh trickery going on right there.

[ludicrous_peridot]

12 hours ago, dgondos said:

In case someone else is planning to play this on DOS, I hacked in support for it in Sakitoshi's MBF fork: https://github.com/Sakitoshi/mbf_sigil/pull/1 :)

 

Why is coming back from E6M9 take you to E6M8? Looking at UMAPINFO it should be E6M4.

[bobbie424242]

Completed up to E6M6 on HMP and enjoyed it more starting at M3.

Beautiful visuals and classic Romero trolling the player in inventive ways.

Sometimes I find it a bit too dark but it could be my gzdoom settings.

I wonder how these maps would have been received at the time Doom was released or shortly after.

I cannot imagine players of this era enjoying them that much for some reason as they are quite convoluted.

Edited December 16, 2023 by bobbie424242

[ludicrous_peridot]

On 12/10/2023 at 12:39 PM, UberGewei said:

Thank you, I'll get this to John.

 

One question I have to the team is: if loading both Sigil and SIGIL II is a norm (assuming this so far based on episode assignment, TEXTURES, etc), is it fine that mastermind hp change also retrospectively affects Sigil and, well Ep 3 and 4)? 

[Apprentice]

Tried it today, died 10 times in the first area of the first level in UV. This wad is not for me . . .

 

Will play it later this week with cheats and nomonsters to see the levels architecture but more then that, no.

[plums]

3 minutes ago, Apprentice said:

Tried it today, died 10 times in the first area of the first level in UV. This wad is not for me . . .

 

Will play it later this week with cheats and nomonsters to see the levels architecture but more then that, no.

Definitely give it a try on HMP, it's a completely different experience. *Much* less hostile.

[Devalaous]

22 hours ago, Xeogred said:

Maybe that's why there's some really out of the way weird armor pickups sometimes too.

 

Never forget the single armour pickup in the nukage in E1M7, also a Romero map. I wouldn't be surprised if that trolling bonus was the reason maxers 'cheat' and don't go for 100%ing all three categories.

[Matthias]

So I just beat it.

 

I was a little worried first four maps that Romero will be extremely unoriginal because it was the same as first Sigil again - the same hellish style with red estetiscs. However later on he started experimenting with new ideas and there was this sewer-like level and such.

I like how he uses very small cramped style. It was oddly satisfying how compact some levels were.

 

What I personally didn't like much - first he uses too many Barons. They are boring walking damage-sponges. The only good thing is that there is enough ammo for plasma... Second, he uses these evil-eyes switches which are OK I guess, but if you don't have ammo for hitscan weapons, you can't active them and you get softlocked - which happened to me in map 04, so I had to pistol-start it again.

 

And technical things: There were too many these weird HOM errors on some places - at least in Unity Doom.

 

Overall four stars out of five.

Edited December 17, 2023 by Matthias
typo

[No-Man Baugh]

 

Spoiler

Y'know with that title, you'd hope we would go as far as to say everyone should play on HNTR

 

[cannonball]

E6M7 - Some impressive scale to this map, it is a shape that everything else appeared to be thrown under the bus here though.

The pacing was very slow in this one, and whilst the pace hasn't exactly been quick in the other maps, this one also lacked that sense of dread and fear that something could get you at any moment. There are so many moments in this map where was questioning why said construction or element of progression was here to the point where the red key section made me roll my eyes pretty bad. Mazes, those lifts that everyone hated from E2M3, some sigil switches that opened secrets yet others were also mandatory for progression that were hidden better than the ones for secrets. 

In short, this is probably going to be my least favourite map in Sigil 2, at least E6M2 was short. Sorry.

 

E6M8 - The name is a little fitting, okay I will give it one point for being better than the straight up tiny arenas of E2M8 and E3M8, but still and again the use of those lifts make for a experience that I didn't want to be a part of, I simply got the mastermind to infight with one of the cybers and hosed the other one. I left the map before the squabble had even come to a conclusion.

 

Overall - I must confess that I have not been a particular fan of Romero's mapping style since his return to the scene. That said the fact that Romero still wants to make maps for this 30 year old game is a great shot in the arm for the community. Whilst the man is clearly a legend, I think we perhaps try to pedestal certain mappers too much, after all Romero was out of action in terms of Doom maps for around 20 years. In the end Sigil 2 continues the design ethos of the first Sigil and as such if you loved Sigil, then you will love this, however the same can be said for those who disliked Sigil, however there are a few new things brought to the table. Mixing in more techbase elements prevents the fatigue of playing nothing but hell-themed maps and there are also some new textures here and there to add an extra layer to the visuals. On the whole the visuals were solid, however there is a real variation in quality from some maps that truly stand out to some that looked below the standard of Romero's maps from 1993-1995. There were some other questionable additions, maps had those fireblu secrets and also timed ones that had to be reached quickly from the start, these felt like adding things for the sake of adding things (Many of these secrets held very little reward apart from "Congratulations, you found that one fireblu texture that I hid etc etc", I don't know maybe I am being overly harsh and have regretted playing the final two maps together which were rather disappointing.

In the end Sigil 2 felt like a bit of a mixed bag, there are some maps that show that Romero still has that midas touch, however on the other hand there are a couple of duds in this one. The most sadistic moments sometimes hit the spot, sometime they didn't however it is noteworthy that my least favourite map tended to lack this killer edge in a compromise to the larger acreage of the map. 

Overall you can only compare this to other works currently being released and Sigil 2 probably sits around the middle of the pack, Romero still continues to build maps that feel different to other pwads being released in the community and I guess that is a bit of a double edged sword, still I really do hope that we see a Doom 2 wad appear (Even if it is just a few levels), just to see if any design decisions change based on the 

 

Score - 2.5/5

Favourite map - E6M6 

[Clippy]

I'm convinced might try the hmp thing 

 

Uvs a bit fucked boys

[plums]

@Clippy Been meaning to write about my experience in UV but I think I enjoyed HMP better overall. UV is indeed a bit fucked.

[Xeogred]

I did HMP first and then UV, honestly I didn't think it was too bad that way at least. But not sure exactly what you guys are doing, 100% or whatnot. I did pistol start but allowed myself a few saves per level. Once you know some routes/secrets, I was having fun on UV. Remixed the experience too playing with the mp3 OST that time.

 

That said yeah, a full blind first run on UV is probably nasty.

 

Going back to Sigil 1 for a replay on UV was almost comical. It does have a few tough maps in the back half, I somehow missed ALL secrets on E5M7 and that was freaking brutal ammo/health wise. But other than that it was kind of a cake walk in comparison, even going back into it a few years later without remembering some secrets and what to expect. So yeah I guess Romero took it personal that Doom players have gotten better haha...

[Rudolph]

That and it is meant to be the sixth and final episode for Ultimate Doom. I cannot fault John for ramping up the difficulty once more.

Edited December 18, 2023 by Rudolph

[amackert]

I did UV last night and it was definitely rough at points. Some parts were much easier than others. Of the toughest, I'd say the first map belongs there, along with the last couple where the ammo starvation got pretty real. It's quality stuff overall, but UV was tedious. Definitely start on a lower difficulty.

[Rudolph]

On 12/10/2023 at 8:46 PM, Jimmy said:

It was great to be able to work alongside John Romero for this project. Massively grateful for the opportunity and very pleased with the reception so far!

 

SIGIL 2's custom soundtrack by yours truly is available on BandCamp!

Thank you so much for that, by the way. The mapset can be so hectic, I rarely had the time to pay much attention to the music! XD

[act]

I guess we can now consider Doom 1 to be on the same level as Wolfenstein 3D with the amount of "Official" episodes.

 

Wolf3D had a total of 6 episodes, now Doom 1 has a total of 6 episodes - even if one was added post-release but was grandfathered into being official and considered part of the original game, and two were added long after release and not even officially sanctioned as part of the game.

[fruity lerlups]

On 12/17/2023 at 7:59 PM, Matthias said:

So I just beat it.

 

I was a little worried first four maps that Romero will be extremely unoriginal because it was the same as first Sigil again - the same hellish style with red estetiscs. However later on he started experimenting with new ideas and there was this sewer-like level and such.

I like how he uses very small cramped style. It was oddly satisfying how compact some levels were.

 

What I personally didn't like much - first he uses too many Barons. They are boring walking damage-sponges. The only good thing is that there is enough ammo for plasma... Second, he uses these evil-eyes switches which are OK I guess, but if you don't have ammo for hitscan weapons, you can't active them and you get softlocked - which happened to me in map 04, so I had to pistol-start it again.

 

And technical things: There were too many these weird HOM errors on some places - at least in Unity Doom.

 

Overall four stars out of five.

doors with health. Theyre probably the biggest reason I dont like Doom 1 combat and why I couldnt find myself enjoying Sigil.

[Rudolph]

11 hours ago, act said:

Wolf3D had a total of 6 episodes, now Doom 1 has a total of 6 episodes - even if one was added post-release but was grandfathered into being official and considered part of the original game, and two were added long after release and not even officially sanctioned as part of the game.

I thought the three Nocturnal Missions (haha) episodes were all released together.

[act]

28 minutes ago, Rudolph said:

I thought the three Nocturnal Missions (haha) episodes were all released together.

Yeah. They were. That's... that's why I made the note of how far apart the three additional episodes to Doom 1 were released.

[Rudolph]

6 minutes ago, act said:

Yeah. They were. That's... that's why I made the note of how far apart the three additional episodes to Doom 1 were released.

Oh, sorry. I thought you were still talking about Wolfenstein 3D.

 

Mondays... -_-