do you think this map is too small?

[aimshows]

i just wanna know if i should expand on the map i cooked this map in around 30 minuets so its obviously not the best. but some things i wanna know

 

1) what should i change

2) would this be a fun map

3) any tips on what i could do in the future 

Edited December 14, 2023 by aimshows

[_memyself]

I think this could be a fun short map. You don't need a map to be big to be fun! Though, I do reccomend adding something like a Hell Knight or Mancubus near the end, like a Boss for the level. Just a little bit of extra challenge.

[Stabbey]

On 12/14/2023 at 6:39 AM, aimshows said:

i just wanna know if i should expand on the map i cooked this map in around 30 minuets so its obviously not the best. but some things i wanna know

 

1) what should i change

2) would this be a fun map

3) any tips on what i could do in the future 

 

1) We can't tell you from a single screenshot.

2) We can't tell you from a single screenshot.

3) You need to release a finished map for people to play before there are useful tips.

 

Also, yes, that map looks like it's very short. Even if it's just for MAP 01, it still looks pretty short.

[TheHambourgeois]

I love small maps but that looks like it would be small even in E1 of scythe 1, which is like the masterclass in condensed levels

[FireWarden1000]

Take screenshots of the level during a playthrough, and you will get better answers.

 

A DOOM map can be small in size, because the player can travel through the same area multiple times, but the important part of a DOOM level is gameplay length.

 

Build a DOOM level with at least 3 minutes of gameplay.

[Makros_the_Black]

You can take a look at E1M1 of Doom 1 or Level 1 of Doom 2 for some ideas.    I think you have the starts of something that could become a fun little map.    Looking at your layout I'd take it along the paths of Level 1... that is to say, that tiny little room on the top right... flesh it out and expand it into the levels final and  exit areas for the classic 'Horseshoe' design.  (Level 1 - Doom 2).

Ultimately though, as Stabbey stated, it's hard to tell without something more than a single screen shot.   Ultimately, this is what playtesting is for... taking our initial concepts and refining them over various iterations until they are just that... fun!   
 
 

[rita remton]

imo, no map would be too small, even a (64x128 map units map containing just the player and a monster). but map size does to an extent determine how fun the map would be. your map is bigger than 64x128 map units.

 

On 12/14/2023 at 11:39 AM, aimshows said:

1) what should i change

imo nothing much. just do the map, put some monsters+weapons+ammo+health in it and finish the map with an exit switch. the most important step of map making is starting and finishing the map. the map could be super detailed with 100,000 linedefs, 10,000 monsters, but all that work is nullified if the map can't be played from start to map exit.

 

On 12/14/2023 at 11:39 AM, aimshows said:

1) would this be a fun map

possibly. depends on what you put in it :)

 

On 12/14/2023 at 11:39 AM, aimshows said:

3) any tips on what i could do in the future 

yes. for me personally, start small like your map above. making small maps have some advantages over big maps such as having higher chances that the maps can be finished and published, need less decorating to make them look nice, etc. all this to build your mapping skills and confidence to make bigger and more complex maps. always make rough layouts map section by map section from map start to exit. for every map section, concentrate on battle design/monster strategies and then aesthetics, because the layout of a map section may be changed to suit the battle in that section (double work by needing to redo most of the decoration in that particular map section if you focused on aesthetics first). and i use the [doomish den of design] to help with my mapping basics. good luck :)

Edited February 23 by rita remton

[magicsofa]

It is quite small and the rooms are all isolated from each other, leading to a predictable game (get key, go back to central room, open door, next key, repeat).

I would add more connections between rooms, and add a few "side-quest" rooms that don't have a key. You can always have multiple locked doors of the same color or reposition them to allow for multiple entrances to the area while still locking out a part of the progression.

[Caffeine]

Length of gameplay is more important than physical level size. Ultimately, this call is subjective: however, I would personally expect at least several minutes of play from a level. Even in wads that have an introductory "no monsters" MAP01 it generally takes a minute or two to wander around and take in the sights before moving on to the "real" first level.

 

Regardless, please do not let this discourage you if you are new to mapping, which it sounds like you are. Even if this level is small, finish it up with monsters, weapons, and ammunition. Play it a few times, and start expanding. Maybe one room feels like it could use an optional area to the side: add it. Mapping is an iterative process and you will not be finished in a day.

[Makros_the_Black]

7 hours ago, Caffeine said:

Length of gameplay is more important than physical level size. Ultimately, this call is subjective: however, I would personally expect at least several minutes of play from a level. Even in wads that have an introductory "no monsters" MAP01 it generally takes a minute or two to wander around and take in the sights before moving on to the "real" first level.

 

Regardless, please do not let this discourage you if you are new to mapping, which it sounds like you are. Even if this level is small, finish it up with monsters, weapons, and ammunition. Play it a few times, and start expanding. Maybe one room feels like it could use an optional area to the side: add it. Mapping is an iterative process and you will not be finished in a day.

@aimshows  Caffieine is 100% right!   I'd like to share a map I made that serves as level 4 for a megawad I'm working on.  It's small and reasonably quick, especially compared to the three that comes before it.   (It's intended to serve almost like a level 1.1 to help tie in a slight change in direction... making the hellzones their own levels instead of sub zones that make things sprawling, without changing the spirit of the whole thing).  

It's a lot of fun.   I enjoy getting to it everytime I personally play it and can't wait to hear feedback on it specifically when it finally goes live over at modDB.

As I said before, I think you have a layout that has a lot of potential.   Add a few encounters and traps, play through it over and over, and reiterate on your ideas until they feel good and solid, fun for you to play through.    ;)    (I also noticed you posted this a few months ago!  Would love to see how that map has progressed since your query!  XD )
 

[CravenCoyote]

I personally love smaller maps that only take a few minutes to finish. Even better when it's a wad with a few of them in there.

For example, 5 maps at 3 minutes each gives 15 minutes of gameplay and that's perfect for me!

 

What's important is how much fun the levels are. I'd much rather play a small fun map than a large boring map.

 

Restrictions breed creativity - so my advice would be to stick with this level and build within those walls you have. Make it a fun environment to be in and make it fun to play.

[aimshows]

hey guys

long time not active. thanks for the feedback.

the only issues i have is that because im new to mapping (haven't made a map since December of last year lol) 

im scared to try and make something that would challenge people. i wanna make a hard map for people but i dont want 

people to rage quit. i also find it easier to make smaller levels but for the small ones I've made i can complete them in like 

20 seconds or less.

[Stabbey]

All creative endeavors runs the risk of people seeing it and going "I do not like it." That's always going to sting at least a little, even if you see their points and agree. But if you want to actually create, you'll have to get over that mental block. As long as you are open to legitimate feedback and criticism and strive for self-improvement, you have nothing to fear. But don't go overboard on asking for feedback. A painter who stops every time they finish a rock or tree to ask if it looks good is going to take forever to finish their painting.

 

As for length, I would say that the process of finding a thread on Doomworld, clicking it, reading the OP, downloading the map, and opening the map with the source port of their choosing and finally starting the game probably takes 20 seconds, if not more. It should not take me longer to do all that than to actually finish your map.

 

Play maps, see what you like, what inspires you. You cannot please everybody, so make a map you want to play first. Finish it to the best of your ability, play-test it over and over, in different ways. When you're satisfied, post it so other people get eyes on it. Take their feedback into account - you don't have to give in to every comment, but you should at least think about the comments and decide individually whether they have merit as it applies to your vision of the map. Make whatever changes you think are good, test and post the next version. Repeat. That's mapping.

[FireWarden1000]

Release what you have on the Doomworld Forums if you feel you made enough contributions to the level, and the members will provide you with advice or videos based on the level.

 

Developing a DOOM level will involve more than building DOOM levels, because you will have to present the level to people to encourage people to download the WAD (advertising).

[aimshows]

I've made a new forum for the map. i took the feedback I've gotten from people and re-made the map

thanks for the support. im also not going to release what the map layout is to make sure everything encounter is a surprise as its not 100% done yet and it will take a while for me to finish. thanks for understanding :)

Edited March 13 by aimshows