[New deadline!] How much health? A CP where monsters have a limited total health count

[JackDBS]

Finished MAP14.

 

Map Name: Perfect Blue

Music Used: MIDI Arrangement of Pink Floyd - Us and Them

 

Tested it on Woof and GZDoom. Pretty sure I got the numbers right, as I counted manually. It's a short map anyways.

 

I was gonna try to get a sky texture in, but even after hours and hours of trying anything I could look up it kept bugging out (even with merging texture packs) so I just left it untouched with the sky texture I wanted in the ZIP file. In the final version, AstroX, can you get the sky texture in?

MAP14.zip

[JackDBS]

Also finished MAP31.

 

Map Title: The Great Pinkie Conga Line
Music Used: Mark Klem - Galaxy (From Memento Mori Map05/16)
Tested In: Woof (once)

 

PS: Yes, I spent eight damn minutes testing this. April Fools.

 

 

MAP31.zip

Edited December 23, 2023 by JackDBS

[Lord Pachellus]

Hello! I would like to join the project. I just finished my map for another ongoing Doom wad project and now I want to make one map for this project (if I was able to finish it fast may I try creating a second map). 

 

To start, I would like the MAP 18 = 38000 monster HP . Can I have this slot?

 

I haven't started it in UDB yet, however I already created it entirely in my mind and also placed all the monsters and their HP in an Excel spreadsheet in order to pre-calculate!

[Axuris]

Suppose since I've contributed to the first one, I could give this a shot.

I'll take Map13.

[NickMP]

Here's MAP22.

Map Name: Slumbering Leviathan

MIDI: "Misty Menace" from Donkey Kong Country

Tested in: DSDA-Doom 0.26.2 (CL-9)

 

HP Count is technically 750 above budget due to the use of 3 Icon of Sins in the ending sequence but given they're only there as explosion props I assumed they could be excluded from the budget.

Coop is fully supported, difficulties are implemented via both extra/stronger items and changing monster composition to feature the same total health but easier combinations.

 

Included embedded into the .WAD file is the MIDI, a UMAPINFO lump defining the maps name, sky texture, MIDI, and par time, as well a dehacked lump implementing the lost soul health reduction for testing purposes.

Making this map was a lot of fun, so I'd like to also claim MAP16!
[EDIT: I posted an update to this map; please see this post for latest version.]

HMH MAP22.zip

Edited March 6 by NickMP

[Sneezy McGlassFace]

Okay, I'm back to mapping again, the time off was very nice. I see the next open slot is MAP06 so I'll have that for this year's April fools project. Count me in, @Astro X! 

[Astro X]

Really sorry for the absence :(((

 

I'll try to address everything and respond everyone in the posts to come.

 

A lot of stuff happened, but regardless of that, I've been thinking about how to make the concept more interesting. I've thought about making every level match the total health of the doom 2 original levels, or any of the iwads for that matter, but that is simply not viable - health count is too low and it goes up and down randomly.

 

So, I've come up with: what if we made it so that UV would be the easiest difficulty setting, whereas HMP has 50% more HP than UV, and HNTR has double the HP count for UV, so that ITYTD has double the ammo and HP, making it more like a 'power-fantasy' experience (tougher monsters with more ammo and half the damage dealt to the player, so it doesn't get too difficult and discouraging, making it a decent alternate challenge)?

 

I'm gonna answer everyone in next posts.

[Axuris]

Since I couldn't think of any good ideas for a map and instead I've been more focused on other stuff, I don't think I can submit a map for this project.

 

Keep the Map13 slot unclaimed @Astro X

[Novaseer]

49 minutes ago, Astro X said:

Really sorry for the absence :(((

 

All good mate, real life comes first.

 

49 minutes ago, Astro X said:

So, I've come up with: what if we made it so that UV would be the easiest difficulty setting, whereas HMP has 50% more HP than UV, and HNTR has double the HP count for UV, so that ITYTD has double the ammo and HP, making it more like a 'power-fantasy' experience (tougher monsters with more ammo and half the damage dealt to the player, so it doesn't get too difficult and discouraging, making it a decent alternate challenge)?

 

Whilst neat on paper, I think this runs into two problems:

• Really unintuitive for prospective players - those who don't see themselves as very good will probably default to playing on HMP/HNTR and accidentally walk into a much tougher experience.
• Existing maps' strict adherence to the pre-existing brief could run into problems when adjusting to the new rules. My MAP04 is a particularly egregious example of this - the map has two monsters and no guns apart from at the very end, and there's not much room for adjustment in any form, let alone another 7,000 HP of enemies (even if releasing ten archviles into the map at random would be on-brand for both the map's intended play pattern and my own sadistic map design)

I think the rules as is allow for plenty of exciting and creative designs - it's just down to us, the mappers, to realise them.

[Andromeda]

1 minute ago, Novaseer said:

• Really unintuitive for prospective players - those who don't see themselves as very good will probably default to playing on HMP/HNTR and accidentally walk into a much tougher experience.
• Existing maps' strict adherence to the pre-existing brief could run into problems when adjusting to the new rules. My MAP04 is a particularly egregious example of this - the map has two monsters and no guns apart from at the very end, and there's not much room for adjustment in any form, let alone another 7,000 HP of enemies (even if releasing ten archviles into the map at random would be on-brand for both the map's intended play pattern and my own sadistic map design)

• Can be solved by having a disclaimer in the text file and/or changing the difficulty names accordingly.
• Make the current state the HNTR difficulty and adjust the other skills.

(Apologies for hijacking the project lead role)

[Novaseer]

Just now, Andromeda said:

• Make the current state the HNTR difficulty and adjust the other skills.

I think it's even harder to remove 3,500 HP from my map than add 7,000 to it, lol.

That, and I also kinda like the mapping challenge of having the same amount of enemy HP with every skill level and having to compensate in different ways.

[Lord Pachellus]

3 hours ago, Astro X said:

Really sorry for the absence :(((

 

I'll try to address everything and respond everyone in the posts to come.

 

A lot of stuff happened, but regardless of that, I've been thinking about how to make the concept more interesting. I've thought about making every level match the total health of the doom 2 original levels, or any of the iwads for that matter, but that is simply not viable - health count is too low and it goes up and down randomly.

 

So, I've come up with: what if we made it so that UV would be the easiest difficulty setting, whereas HMP has 50% more HP than UV, and HNTR has double the HP count for UV, so that ITYTD has double the ammo and HP, making it more like a 'power-fantasy' experience (tougher monsters with more ammo and half the damage dealt to the player, so it doesn't get too difficult and discouraging, making it a decent alternate challenge)?

 

I'm gonna answer everyone in next posts.

Hi. I've read this post, and all the answers to that, and I guess that now would be confusing changing the rules. Any mapper has interpreted the rule in a way. My map (slot 18) is about 30% ready, but what I am doing:

- Hard = 38000 HP with very restrict ammo and medkits

- Medium = 38000 HP with not so restrict, however no excessive ammo and medkits

- Easy = 38000 HP with confortably amount of ammo and medkits

 

The monsters will be exactly the same in every skill, but the way I distribute ammo and health is more or less as you have proposed in idea, but the implementation is different.

 

Well, I guess that some ideas can be shared to people who haven't created their levels yet, however I think that anyone should choose the preferred way to do this. What so you think?

[Lord Pachellus]

2 hours ago, Novaseer said:

I think it's even harder to remove 3,500 HP from my map than add 7,000 to it, lol.

That, and I also kinda like the mapping challenge of having the same amount of enemy HP with every skill level and having to compensate in different ways.

Yes, I agree with you! i also replied as I am doing. Btw, I have played your map, and, it is a damn good gimmick map! Very fun, and challenging! I like it! A very hard map4. I had a hard time on UV, but I beat it. I only not had time to find all secrets because was too late when I played it!

Edited January 12 by Lord Pachellus

[NickMP]

Echoing what others have said, I think the current stipulations posed in the opening post are sufficient, I feel that currently the project's 'identity" is that each difficulty will have the same total HP to get through; the current concept might not be felt that strongly player side, but I think it's okay if a map sets gimmick is "gentle" like that, and for me personally, it's been a really fun mapping exercise.

[Sneezy McGlassFace]

Yeah, making any significant changes to the project rules doesn't feel right when people already started working.

[Astro X]

I want to say that I really appreciate everyone's effort in contributing to the project, since, of course, none of this would be possible without the help of multiple members of the community :) Some people have already submitted completed maps even!

 

I'll make sure to be more present and help with the development of the wad :)

 

Unfortunately, real life stuff happened and my best friend passed away recently. I only had the energy to finish the map I was almost done building.

 

I really hope everyone is having a good time mapping for this CP. I should probably build a map at some point for it as well.

 

Thanks and sorry for the abscence.

[Sneezy McGlassFace]

10 hours ago, Astro X said:

Unfortunately, real life stuff happened and my best friend passed away recently. I only had the energy to finish the map I was almost done building.

I'm extremely sorry, hope you're managing the situation okay. Stay strong, fam. 

[Sneezy McGlassFace]

• Title: Tower of Despair
• Author: Sneezy McGlassface
• Map slot: 06
• Midi: Fastwave by @Plerb
• Download RC1: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1K_OXzSd3ZXfqMhTCcj8vgdFPV1cYzuvv
• Tested in: nugget-doom and gzdoom
• Par time: uv speed 50sec, uv-max 2 min

Monsters used:

Spoiler

• 20x Caco
• 3x Hell knight
• 7x Imp
• 2x Shotgunner
• 1x Zombieman

 

My submission for the last project was a bit annoying, now this one is pretty annoying too. That wasn't the intention when I started, it just turned out that way.
Glhf, Sneezy

[Plerb]

@Sneezy McGlassFace Hey, awesome to see someone using one of my MIDIs in a map! :D

[Astro X]

Tysm, @Sneezy McGlassFace!

 

I'm gonna make sure to playtest all maps so far!

 

@Plerb oh, hello! I didn't know you had public midis one could use. That's so cool to see!

[Lord Pachellus]

@Astro X, be strong about your friend. Projects like this are a good shelter where we can go to exit a little bit from the heavy load of the real world! One thing I like about the Doom community is because here we find nice people, it is not toxic as, well, the most of the games.

 

Well, previously I requested the slot 18. I have a problem: I would like to change to slot 21. The middle part of my map was very... Blah... and I changed the original plan I conceived. So I need some more monsters. Map is 90% ready. Now just finish, test, test, test and release. 

 

Please, free the slot 18 to another mapper and assign to me the slot 21. 

And maybe I will make one more map. I am thinking on Slot 10. You may save this to me, but if any other person wants it, I can change. It is easy to make the 12, 13 if needed. Add monsters is easy (and create small areas ad well). My maps tend to become bigger than I plan, I am taking care of keep the current map under control, otherwise in more 2 weeks it will reach the slot 30 monster HP LOL!

 

One question, about music track: does it need to be a Copyright free one, or it is allowed in this project a midi from a known band? I am asking because this varies from project to project and I haven't seen this rule here. I can get one copyright free midi (because I am no longer with time and patience to compose as I used to do). However I have one midi for  a song that I remembered that the theme matches very well my MAP 21.

[GoldenDragonLord]

Sounds like a cool project, I'd love to be a part of it. Any chance I could get maps 20 and 24 ?

 

[NickMP]

And here's my MAP16!

Map Name: Flittering Ruins

MIDI: "Terran 1" from StarCraft

Test in: DSDA-Doom 0.26.2 (CL-9)

 

Co-op is fully supported, and difficulty is implemented using both different items/monster compositions, as well as utilizing the fact that Teleport Destinations respect difficulty to use different boom scroller scripting with each difficulty, leading the player on completely different paths/fights throughout the level, and with each difficulty having a unique exit.

 

I have some concerns that HNTR and HMP may be too intense for lower difficulties, so any feedback is appreciated.

 

As with my previous submission, the included .WAD contains a DEHACKED lump implementing the Lost Soul HP reduction, a UMAPINFO lump defining the maps name, music, and par time, and the MIDI file itself.

HMH MAP16.zip

[Astro X]

On 2/6/2024 at 11:13 PM, GoldenDragonLord said:

Sounds like a cool project, I'd love to be a part of it. Any chance I could get maps 20 and 24 ?

 

Hey, sure. Welcome to the project!

 

Thanks, @NickMP for your second map submission!!!

[NickMP]

I realized how to make the ending of my MAP22 look at lot better, and also found a number of texture/flat mistakes I'd made, and merged some moving sectors so they aren't as loud, so I wanted to post this update to my first submission!

 

HMH MAP22 V2.zip

[Lord Pachellus]

@Astro X, besides the map 21 (I already finished it, just testing to tune the items balancing), could you reserve 2 more slots for me? 

- Slot 32 - I had I different idea to create a gimmick level. It is about 70% ready. I guess I will have it finished until the weekend.

- Slot 12 - I had a very interesting idea, and if I was able to put this on editor, it will most likely be the best of my 3 maps for the project.

 

I will finish map32, test it and play a little more the 21 to improve the skills balancing, and submit both together. In the sequence, I will create the level 12 during March.

[stridertech]

map indev rn. working title "Crocker Sends Her Regards"

[Lord Pachellus]

Does this project have a Discord? I guess if it had one, the communication among people would be easier. We could playtest the maps and give feedbacks easier, and also help with everyone's motivation.

 

@Astro X, at this moment, only 18 maps are claimed, and the deadline is closer. It is possible some won't be able to deliver. I finished 2 maps (21 and 32) and I am in half of third map (maybe 12). To the idea of this mapset be successful, that is the progression of monster HP, all the 32 maps need to be done. And if we postpone the deadline at least to half of the year and remove rhe limit of 3 maps per person? I guess I can contribute with 1 or 2 more maps.

 

I have played some excepcional maps, and this project has potential. It would be a pity if this project never sees the sunlight... I can help in the organization if you need. We should go to Discord of other projects and invite good mappers directly, because the Doom World post seems ro not be attracting many people.

 

Some authors maps I have playtested so far, that are very creative: @Kusogenes map 3 (sympathetic and fun), @Novaseer map 4 (gimmick and out of box), @Sneezy McGlassFace map 6 (straight and totally original), @JackDBS map 14 (flirts with slaughter maps and challenging) and @NickMP map 22 (this is a masterpiece, I have no worlds to define it, I'm anxious to play your map 16!) - I haven't played other maps so far. But based on these, this project has a huge potential. I will publish my 3 maps together in 2 or 3 weeks. Let's make this project be a successful!

 

@realjohnmadden, I have also played your map 9. It is fun. But is a slaughtermap with more cyberdemons that even the map 30 of this project would support (only the Cyberdemons sum more HP than any level if this WAD will allow). I think that either you will need to submit your map for another project, preferably a slaughter maps one, or, maybe, change your map to one of the last slots (29 maybe, because 30 most likely will be a kind of Icon of Sin map) and cut down drastically the number of monsters. You can replace many of your Cyberdemons and Spider Masterminds for "cheap" monsters. See that an area with 5 revenants with their annoying homing missiles (that will cost 1500HP can be harder than one cyberdemon (that costs 4000HP) and has a predictable missiles behavior, all depends on monsters placement. I loved that first slaughter part in the round hall. But the rest of the level is a bit excessive. You could use your map flow, the current decoration, but replacing high tear monsters by regular ones. A level does not need to be hard above all, it must be fun and fit the wad proposal. I can help you counting your monsters HP (I guess you are confused about it by reading your messages) and playtest your map until it fits into the wad proposal (if you accept my offer). I would start changing this from slot 9 to slot 29, and cutting down/converting many of them to weak monsters until reach the HP limit. 

 

[realjohnmadden]

13 hours ago, Lord Pachellus said:

 

@realjohnmadden, I have also played your map 9. It is fun. But is a slaughtermap with more cyberdemons that even the map 30 of this project would support (only the Cyberdemons sum more HP than any level if this WAD will allow). I think that either you will need to submit your map for another project, preferably a slaughter maps one, or, maybe, change your map to one of the last slots (29 maybe, because 30 most likely will be a kind of Icon of Sin map) and cut down drastically the number of monsters. You can replace many of your Cyberdemons and Spider Masterminds for "cheap" monsters. See that an area with 5 revenants with their annoying homing missiles (that will cost 1500HP can be harder than one cyberdemon (that costs 4000HP) and has a predictable missiles behavior, all depends on monsters placement. I loved that first slaughter part in the round hall. But the rest of the level is a bit excessive. You could use your map flow, the current decoration, but replacing high tear monsters by regular ones. A level does not need to be hard above all, it must be fun and fit the wad proposal. I can help you counting your monsters HP (I guess you are confused about it by reading your messages) and playtest your map until it fits into the wad proposal (if you accept my offer). I would start changing this from slot 9 to slot 29, and cutting down/converting many of them to weak monsters until reach the HP limit. 

 

I've been thinking of making another map entirely with a new theme, as I was unhappy with the result anyways.

[Novaseer]

I came up with another (supposedly) fun little gimmick - could I claim MAP19, please?