What's easier: modelling for Quake or making character sprites for Doom?

[PanCotzky]

Hello everyone! I want to create a mod but can't decide whether to use Quake or Doom for it. I'm equally bad at modeling and drawing, so most likely I'll need community help regardless. However, I'd like to ask for your opinion. What's easier (faster time-wise): drawing sprites for Doom or modeling and animating assets for Quake? I'm referring to sprites of about the resolution and detail level seen in Trench Foot or models roughly with the polygon count of vanilla Quake.

[Edward850]

They are two different skill sets. Which one is "easier" is entirely subjective and comes down to what you yourself are capable of.

[PanCotzky]

6 minutes ago, Edward850 said:

They are two different skill sets. Which one is "easier" is entirely subjective and comes down to what you yourself are capable of.

 

Well, my question was about your preferences. If we presume the person is equally good at both skill sets, which one would take less time? I basically want to optimize the work so it would be manageable for a very small team.

Edited December 17, 2023 by PanCotzky

[Edward850]

My answer hasn't really changed in that regard. It comes down to the individual about which one is easier, therefor faster for them.

This is a question you can only ask yourself or the person you hire to do the work.

Edited December 17, 2023 by Edward850

[Shepardus]

5 hours ago, PanCotzky said:

 

Well, my question was about your preferences. If we presume the person is equally good at both skill sets, which one would take less time? I basically want to optimize the work so it would be manageable for a very small team.

What do you mean by "equally good"? If that means "takes an equal amount of time to produce output at an acceptable quality," then you've answered your own question.

 

I will add that if you can model, then you can also render the models as sprite sheets, though your mileage may vary on how good that looks.

[Trov]

I'm gonna have to go with Quake model being easier. Though that isn't to say it doesn't require a lot of skill to make a good one.

But the fact is you can make a change and not have to worry about having to do the same change across 8 different directions or potentially all sprites.

 

If not easier I think it is certainly less tedious.

 

Understand though that what Quake lacks in polycount it certainly makes up for in what I consider to be pretty complex textures.

Edited December 20, 2023 by Trov

[fai1025]

I'm a complete dumb arse when it comes to modeling, you can tell it from my experience of rage quitting from Blender

so I would say character sprites are definitely easier, you don't need to be good at art, nobody say you can't draw some stickman

[magicsofa]

On 12/17/2023 at 4:26 PM, PanCotzky said:

Well, my question was about your preferences. If we presume the person is equally good at both skill sets, which one would take less time? I basically want to optimize the work so it would be manageable for a very small team.

 

There are plenty of people who are proficient at one or both skills... the more important question is, why would they want to work on your project?

[Sikreci]

Do you need brand new assets from scratch, or can you edit and bash together existing sprites from, say, Realm667? It's possible, probable even, that you can find something fairly close to what you need and edit it to suit your needs rather than making something brand new. If you need to make something totally new, then the question still depends on the method you choose. Do you want to take a photo of a toy weapon and edit it yourself like id did? That's not too hard. Do you want to model, texture, rig, animate, and render a 3D weapon as a sprite? Well you'd probably have an easier time making a less-detailed 3D model for Quake then.

 

You need to do some research to answer this question for yourself because it's going to vary between projects. Figure out your artistic goals, especially the style you want. Then find out what's already available that you can modify for your specific needs, and what you need to produce yourself.

[TheHambourgeois]

I am going to suggest that given the fact that a lot of 90s video games (Heretic and Hexen, for starters, lots of Nintendo games, etc.), and even community members like Amuscaria generate sprites from 3d models I would say modeling is probably quicker. As others have noted, however, its not like it's easier.

[Kappes Buur]

IMO, if you are proficient in both, modeling and spriying, then there is no contest.

For simple actors like stickmen then spriting is easier. For complex actors those in

Quake it is easier to do them as a model.

 

Just look at Amuscaria 's actors for Hell-Forge, it is far more labor intensive to

produce the rotations for each state.

[lukasxd]

With the technology of today, software, a somewhat good camera and a cheap green fabric, you can easily make some sprites like the ones in MK. 

Sure, it will take a lot of time, how Doom works also contributes into this, like how handles sprites for enemies (Every action an enemy have there's also a couple of sprites for all view points) so i think it will not be hard to produce sprites but it will take a lot of time.

 

See this for more information: https://openmortal.sourceforge.net/making.html

 

I also use that method (change the dv camcorder for a common 16 mp Sony Cybershot) for a game i made in 7 days. https://sheep-games.itch.io/bootleg-john

 

Is another story if you try to make a sprite from nothing, it will take a couple of hours an even days to complete a set.

 

Quake from the other hand, i don't know, but i bet it will take also time to model something into the game, making maps for Quake is much, much harder/time consuming than in Doom.

[PanCotzky]

On 12/20/2023 at 7:49 PM, magicsofa said:

 

There are plenty of people who are proficient at one or both skills... the more important question is, why would they want to work on your project?

That's up to my game design and storytelling skills :)

 

On 12/20/2023 at 12:03 PM, Trov said:

I'm gonna have to go with Quake model being easier. Though that isn't to say it doesn't require a lot of skill to make a good one.

But the fact is you can make a change and not have to worry about having to do the same change across 8 different directions or potentially all sprites.

 

If not easier I think it is certainly less tedious.

 

Understand though that what Quake lacks in polycount it certainly makes up for in what I consider to be pretty complex textures.

 

Yeah, that's exactly my concern. Full 3D can mean more work on the model itself but less work to integrate every frame of animation for every direction. In some situations, that saves a lot of time. My question was mostly about whether or not that's the case here.

 

On 12/18/2023 at 4:48 AM, Shepardus said:

What do you mean by "equally good"? If that means "takes an equal amount of time to produce output at an acceptable quality," then you've answered your own question.

 

I will add that if you can model, then you can also render the models as sprite sheets, though your mileage may vary on how good that looks.

 

I mean, if a person can both draw sprites and model/texture/animate, what would take more time for them: to model and animate a Quake-style character or to draw every frame of animation for every direction of a Doom-style character?

 

On 12/22/2023 at 11:35 PM, Sikreci said:

Do you need brand new assets from scratch, or can you edit and bash together existing sprites from, say, Realm667? It's possible, probable even, that you can find something fairly close to what you need and edit it to suit your needs rather than making something brand new. If you need to make something totally new, then the question still depends on the method you choose. Do you want to take a photo of a toy weapon and edit it yourself like id did? That's not too hard. Do you want to model, texture, rig, animate, and render a 3D weapon as a sprite? Well you'd probably have an easier time making a less-detailed 3D model for Quake then.

 

You need to do some research to answer this question for yourself because it's going to vary between projects. Figure out your artistic goals, especially the style you want. Then find out what's already available that you can modify for your specific needs, and what you need to produce yourself.

 

Thank you, I'll look into that!

 

On 12/23/2023 at 10:26 AM, lukasxd said:

With the technology of today, software, a somewhat good camera and a cheap green fabric, you can easily make some sprites like the ones in MK. 

Sure, it will take a lot of time, how Doom works also contributes into this, like how handles sprites for enemies (Every action an enemy have there's also a couple of sprites for all view points) so i think it will not be hard to produce sprites but it will take a lot of time.

 

See this for more information: https://openmortal.sourceforge.net/making.html

 

I also use that method (change the dv camcorder for a common 16 mp Sony Cybershot) for a game i made in 7 days. https://sheep-games.itch.io/bootleg-john

 

Is another story if you try to make a sprite from nothing, it will take a couple of hours an even days to complete a set.

 

Quake from the other hand, i don't know, but i bet it will take also time to model something into the game, making maps for Quake is much, much harder/time consuming than in Doom.

 

Looks amazing :D

[lukasxd]

On 1/2/2024 at 6:08 PM, PanCotzky said:

That's up to my game design and storytelling skills :)

 

 

Yeah, that's exactly my concern. Full 3D can mean more work on the model itself but less work to integrate every frame of animation for every direction. In some situations, that saves a lot of time. My question was mostly about whether or not that's the case here.

 

 

I mean, if a person can both draw sprites and model/texture/animate, what would take more time for them: to model and animate a Quake-style character or to draw every frame of animation for every direction of a Doom-style character?

 

 

Thank you, I'll look into that!

 

 

Looks amazing :D

Thanks! glad someone liked it :)

[NeoWorm]

Modeling for Quake is easier by far. With blender and Noesis you can get working model to quake or even to Gzdoom in minutes. Hitting the same artstyle is different can of worms. Doing sprites takes so much time even when you have model as a base you still need to do manual post processing. And coverting fotos to sprites is the worst. To get usable fotos you either need a studio setup with proper lights and a rotary platform that to get all the angles on top of making a physical model that has articulation and ability to animate it believably. Or shitton of post processing.