Alternative Gameplay Modding?

[mmiov]

With the advent of standards such as MBF21 and DSDHacked and sourceports such as DSDA enabling the ability to jump, I began to wonder: Will it be possible to get some sort of alternative thing going on to what ZDoom-dervatives do in terms of Gameplay modding? If not, I'd like to hear your point of view as to why? (Side note but, I already know about Eternity, I'm talking about something new all together.)

Edited December 21, 2023 by mmiov

[bofu]

Just from playing around in source code, I've extended MBF21 to have even more codepointers that approach ZScript/Decorate levels of behavior. It's certainly possible. 3DGE is also a prime but not as well-known example, as it has custom weapon and monster behavior even in the early 2000s.

[mmiov]

1 hour ago, bofu said:

Just from playing around in source code, I've extended MBF21 to have even more codepointers that approach ZScript/Decorate levels of behavior. It's certainly possible. 3DGE is also a prime but not as well-known example, as it has custom weapon and monster behavior even in the early 2000s.

Can you elaborate on that? I know people hate having new standards but I'm still interested to hear, keep in mind that I'm not that savvy in the matter, though.

[dasho]

The short answer: Yes, something altogether new could be made, this has always been possible. That being said, anything COMPLETELY new would:

 

- Probably have little buy-in

- Not solve a problem that hasn't been solved elsewhere

- Would have little or no cross-port compatibility

 

In this case, I am assuming that "new" does not mean something like another extension of the Dehacked standard or a common subset of Decorate that ports agree on, etc.

[Danfun64]

47 minutes ago, dasho said:

anything COMPLETELY new would:

 

- Not solve a problem that hasn't been solved elsewhere

 

Hot take. A ZScript alternative that is multiplayer friendly by nature would be nice.

[dasho]

8 minutes ago, Danfun64 said:

Hot take. A ZScript alternative that is multiplayer friendly by nature would be nice.

 

Right, it would be nice, but ports like Zandronum already show that you can have modding and good multiplayer in the same package, so you're not solving a problem that has no solution elsewhere.

 

EDIT: Keep in mind that this isn't a reason NOT to do something; if someone is sufficiently motivated then who cares?

Edited December 21, 2023 by dasho

[ETTiNGRiNDER]

I mean, niche ports with non-ZDoom modding features have been a thing, they're just a niche thing.  For instance, the Hexen Mage Tower guys have been off puttering around with Doomsday modding for years now despite that what glory days that port had (let alone modding for it) seem to be long past for the most part.  It's been a long while since I took a deep look into what all DDF does but if I'm recalling right it's sort of partway between a super-DeHackEd and a more DECORATE-like thing.

[bofu]

8 hours ago, mmiov said:

Can you elaborate on that? I know people hate having new standards but I'm still interested to hear, keep in mind that I'm not that savvy in the matter, though.

 

It was mostly things like adding new codepointers for monsters to just wander or move in their current direction or strafe, checks based on the actor's height relative to its target, and commands to check for and reduce specific ammo types from a weapon instead of the ammo type that the weapon uses. The code wasn't particularly clean and I chunked it, but it was definitely made to be added onto MBF21 and preserve all other behavior.

 

It's definitely possible. The question is, who would adopt it, would it be part of a new spec, etc. I don't have the energy to try to convince anyone to add to an existing standard, so I'll leave that to someone who has experience with it and work within existing limits until then.

[andrewj]

8 hours ago, Danfun64 said:

A ZScript alternative that is multiplayer friendly by nature would be nice

Oh, what makes it unfriendly to multiplayer?

[Tango]

29 minutes ago, andrewj said:

Oh, what makes it unfriendly to multiplayer?

 

I reckon they probably just mean something equivalently flexible as zscript but in a client/server multiplayer port

[inkoalawetrust]

5 hours ago, Tango said:

 

I reckon they probably just mean something equivalently flexible as zscript but in a client/server multiplayer port

Andrew is asking WHY ZScript doesn't work with multiplayer.

[mmiov]

Now after looking through the replies, I'm thinking: What would you like to see in a new scripting language? Not that I'm necessarily gonna be doing anything with that information, but rather just as food for thought lol

Like, what things do you hate about ZScript that you think could warrant making another scripting language?

[mmiov]

16 hours ago, dasho said:

The short answer: Yes, something altogether new could be made, this has always been possible. That being said, anything COMPLETELY new would:

 

- Probably have little buy-in

- Not solve a problem that hasn't been solved elsewhere

- Would have little or no cross-port compatibility

 

In this case, I am assuming that "new" does not mean something like another extension of the Dehacked standard or a common subset of Decorate that ports agree on, etc.

Not necessarily actually, by "new" I just mean something that isn't being used already. But I get why people would hate having yet another updated standard.