Maximum Doom deserves more love.

[Aquarium]

I mean yeah i understand that is a bunch of random homebrew levels, has over 3000+ levels, some of them are duplicates, some of them are broken, some of them are from Heretic etc. but still its an official release and people should play more often. People usually dont know about this expansion, but i think with this thread people will play it more. People are actually putting a lot of effort and in the end to not play it at all is kinda sad tbh. So yeah lets revive this good expansion!

[TheMagicMushroomMan]

Nah, it was a shitty collection that consisted of 99.5% shit/broken maps (and duplicates of shit/broken maps), 0.45% mediocre maps and 0.05% okay maps. It contained copyright-violating material (which I have no moral problem with) that only adds to the shitty "throw in every piece of shit we can find" feeling of the CD. Maximum Doom is only unknown to people who aren't into Classic Doom, everyone here knows about it already. Most of them haven't played it, because there's little reason to unless you're curious/a masochist/Matt. It is not in any way a "good expansion". Just ask Matt. The CD is a curiosity and a meme, and a reminder of simple times, but it was never a quality product.

Edited December 24, 2023 by TheMagicMushroomMan

[Endless]

17 minutes ago, TheMagicMushroomMan said:

Nah, it was a shitty collection that consisted of 99.5% shit/broken maps (and duplicates of shit/broken maps), 0.45% mediocre maps and 0.05% okay maps. It contained copyright-violating material (which I have no moral problem with) that only adds to the shitty "throw in every piece of shit we can find" feeling of the CD. Maximum Doom is only unknown to people who aren't into Classic Doom, everyone here knows about it already. Most of them haven't played it, because there's little reason to unless you're curious/a masochist/Matt. It is not in any way a "good expansion". Just ask Matt. The CD is a curiosity and a meme, and a reminder of simple times, but it was never a quality product.

Eh, partially agree but also disagree with some points. Morally, it was a shitty move, but from a retrospective, Maximum Doom does represent the average quality you could find in most PWADs back then on the old internet. Some comments around here from people that were there back when it released have more or less a mixed opinion about it, mostly regarding its fake promises and shady marketing, but considering that not a lot of people had, or fast enough at least, internet, Maximum Doom was a gateway into what the community offered during the 90s.

 

There's tons of shitty duplicates and poor conversions that's true, but the 0.05% okay maps comment, I'm not sure, I've played a lot of it (but not even close to finishing it) and I've found some good hidden gems as well as some other well known titles from the 90s that are usually remembered fondly today.

 

Then again, there's my personal bias of course, as I do enjoy the jank era of the 90s, but I still think that if I was a kid playing Doom in the 90s, and somebody gifted me Maximum Doom for Xmas, I would probably have been quite happy with it.

 

Addendum: In modern times, there is no reason at all to play Maximum Doom, that is true, and even if you are one of those that enjoy a completionist style of gaming, completing the entirety of Maximum Doom just because you want to is insanity-inducing and will make you hate the game. The only reason to play it today is either because you want to relieve the 90s experience, or you are some sort of nut old-school WAD archeologist, like me.

Edited December 24, 2023 by Endless

[ChopBlock223]

Maximum Doom feels like a very Tim Willits idea.

[Li'l devil]

Yeah, let's revive it. I propose a community project where we improve all 3000+ levels to the quality standard of Ancient Aliens.

[Maximum Matt]

On 12/24/2023 at 9:32 AM, Aquarium said:

but still its an official release and people should play more often.

Sorry I missed this topic, usually I stay on top of anything Max Doom related - yep, I still think this is the number-one reason to play this (at least over the DZones and other shovelware comps); it's OFFICIALLY RELEASED BY ID SOFTWARE.  Yes, every one of the nearly 3,500 goddamn levels has ID Software's rubber stamp, for better or worse.  I often wonder how many of the mappers out there are proud of that fact...

 

On 12/24/2023 at 10:33 AM, TheMagicMushroomMan said:

Just ask Matt. The CD is a curiosity and a meme, and a reminder of simple times, but it was never a quality product.

Correct, it's a great archaeological relic of how mapping was done back in the day, all the way back to March 1994.  For that reason alone, it's legendary.  

 

On 12/24/2023 at 10:49 AM, Endless said:

but the 0.05% okay maps comment, I'm not sure,

I would say it's closer to 10% decent to good maps, with the rest crap, duplicates, or DM-only.  Again, if you want my opinion, you can go through my Maximum Doom List and check out the ones I liked. 

I'm actually pissed off lately that there were SO MANY more homebrew maps out there that weren't represented in Max Doom - guys like Doom Wad World and MeatySpag have been unearthing tons of 94-95 wads I've never seen before, which makes me all the more angry at Max Doom's duplicates which inflated the collection's volume.  Again, Max Doom turns you into an amateur Doom wad archaeologist.  

On 12/24/2023 at 10:49 AM, Endless said:

Then again, there's my personal bias of course, as I do enjoy the jank era of the 90s, but I still think that if I was a kid playing Doom in the 90s, and somebody gifted me Maximum Doom for Xmas, I would probably have been quite happy with it.

Maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan, if I had Maximum Doom in '96 I'd........ I don't know, actually......

 

On 12/25/2023 at 8:14 PM, ChopBlock223 said:

Maximum Doom feels like a very Tim Willits idea.

I've heard it was Shawn Green that compiled all the levels, and I also heard (from Sir Tarnsman) that Jay Wilbur should take the blame for the idea.  Then again, Willits' Raven levels are well represented in the collection. 

 

On 12/26/2023 at 1:00 AM, Li'l devil said:

Yeah, let's revive it. I propose a community project where we improve all 3000+ levels to the quality standard of Ancient Aliens.

Yeaaaaaaaah............. you can do that ;-)

[ReaperAA]

OP seems to have been banned now, but I will still say this. Maximum Doom is interesting in that it serves as a time capsule of how the community Doom wad scene was like in the pre-Memento Mori and pre-Final Doom era.

 

But in terms of actually playing it, it's not worth it. I would say that around 98% of maps are either meh/crap, DM-only or duplicates. There are only like 1-2% maps that are somewhat interesting imho.

 

On 12/25/2023 at 8:00 PM, Li'l devil said:

Yeah, let's revive it. I propose a community project where we improve all 3000+ levels to the quality standard of Ancient Aliens.

 

I know this is a joke comment but I actually think taking the best 1-2% of the maps and tuning them up wouldn't be a bad idea (assuming some of those haven't already been covered by the 1994/1995 Tune-up Projects)

[No-Man Baugh]

On 2/16/2024 at 3:54 AM, ReaperAA said:

I know this is a joke comment but I actually think taking the best 1-2% of the maps and tuning them up wouldn't be a bad idea (assuming some of those haven't already been covered by the 1994/1995 Tune-up Projects)

 

If this does end up happening: I call dibs on HELLMART! It was the first mod I found and played when looking at the Max Doom Reference and really left an impression on me

Edited February 19 by No-Man Baugh

[Devalaous]

I like it enough as a stockpile of 94 and 95 stuff, I just wish it was slapped together with more care, so it actually ended up better than the other shovelware stuff.

 

Ive made my QoL patchs for several megawads found on it, like the 4 WadPaks, New Doom, Illusions of Home etc, and someones suggested jokingly to make a giant Maximum Doom 'patch', which would basically be the whole damn directory with no Doom 1 conversions or duplicates, and missing maps in series filled in.

 

On 2/16/2024 at 10:54 PM, ReaperAA said:

I know this is a joke comment but I actually think taking the best 1-2% of the maps and tuning them up wouldn't be a bad idea (assuming some of those haven't already been covered by the 1994/1995 Tune-up Projects)

 

Here's  quick throwaway proposal on that idea.

Ultimate Maximum Doom: Volume 1 - Episode 1 to 4, tackling updating 9 maps at a time, Heroes style. By doing it episodic, its less commitment and manageable, with however many installments and episodes not set in stone. Get at least one megawad out of it, and it'll be a success :p

 

Could also do 'Ultimate Maximum DM' on the side which spruces up the Deathmatch content (and potentially add SP monsters to make it worth everyone's time)

[Donowa]

On 12/25/2023 at 10:00 AM, Li'l devil said:

Yeah, let's revive it. I propose a community project where we improve all 3000+ levels to the quality standard of Ancient Aliens.

just load it up with the top 108 megawads from something like m8f's thread, and add in a chex quest sized episode, that'll fill out all 3461 maps