Amalgoom Episode 1 - The Red Valley of Death - map credits split

[Johnny Cruelty]

Hey, also uhh, can I be credited for map02 and map03? I started both maps and then they got heavily reworked but I didn't get any credit for them

 

please and thank you.

[The Royal We]

21 minutes ago, Johnny Cruelty said:

Hey, also uhh, can I be credited for map02 and map03? I started both maps and then they got heavily reworked but I didn't get any credit for them

 

please and thank you.

Sorry, but you didn't even want to play map 2 when @DoomGappypresented his changes to you, not to mention that you were extremely rude, disrespectful, among other things that aren't worth commenting on. You had your chances and you spat on them. Several times. I don't want to have my name associated with you on any map. Also, map 03 has practically been redone from scratch. We're still juggling a lot to solve various problems you've created, as well as trying as much as possible to keep your ideas credited to the final project.

Edited December 22, 2023 by The Royal We

[plums]

20 hours ago, DoomGappy said:

We're really glad you enjoyed the first episode, hope everyone feels the same endearment towards the other maps that are still to come. Thanks again for the feedback and valuable demos. 

Welcome, and sure, send me the links to the youtube videos when they're up. No hurry of course.

 

BTW one thing that demos don't make obvious is when the player is looking at the automap. If I'm ever not moving for a while for no apparent reason, or moving really weirdly through areas I've explored already, that's probably why.

 

4 minutes ago, The Royal We said:

19 minutes ago, Johnny Cruelty said:

Hey, also uhh, can I be credited for map02 and map03? I started both maps and then they got heavily reworked but I didn't get any credit for them

 

please and thank you.

Sorry, but you didn't even want to play map 2 when @DoomGappypresented hischanges to you, in addition to being extremely disrespectful. Several times. You had your chance and you spat on it. I don't want to have my name associated with you on any map. Also, map 03 has practically been redone from scratch. We're still juggling a lot to solve various problems you've created, as well as trying as much as possible to keep your ideas credited to the final project.

Regardless of @Johnny Cruelty's attitude, if his map was the foundation of another map, he should have is name on it somewhere IMO. Even something like "original map foundation by.." If absolutely nothing of his original map remains it's a bit of a Ship of Theseus problem I guess.

 

I get that the current team is unhappy with JC for a number of reasons, and I'm not suggesting they shouldn't be, but that's not a justification to not credit him for his work.

[Johnny Cruelty]

9 minutes ago, The Royal We said:

Sorry, but you didn't even want to play map 2 when @DoomGappypresented his changes to you, not to mention that you were extremely rude, disrespectful, among other things that aren't worth commenting on. You had your chances and you spat on them. Several times. I don't want to have my name associated with you on any map. Also, map 03 has practically been redone from scratch. We're still juggling a lot to solve various problems you've created, as well as trying as much as possible to keep your ideas credited to the final project.

I didn't wanna play it at the time because I saw the entire thing in stream on discord, not because I simply hated it, plus I only disliked a few changes not the entire map because it was different from the previous version, like some secrets removed and stuff, I like the map, but maybe I spoke the wrong words at the time, and I didn't know watching a entire level being 100%ed is different from playing it

 

plus, it is still my work too, sure I may've made mistakes, but it doesn't give you the right to discredit me when I put lots of effort into the map

[The Royal We]

3 minutes ago, plums said:

Welcome, and sure, send me the links to the youtube videos when they're up. No hurry of course.

 

BTW one thing that demos don't make obvious is when the player is looking at the automap. If I'm ever not moving for a while for no apparent reason, or moving really weirdly through areas I've explored already, that's probably why.

 

Regardless of @Johnny Cruelty's attitude, if his map was the foundation of another map, he should have is name on it somewhere IMO. Even something like "original map foundation by.." If absolutely nothing of his original map remains it's a bit of a Ship of Theseus problem I guess.

 

I get that the current team is unhappy with JC for a number of reasons, and I'm not suggesting they shouldn't be, but that's not a justification to not credit him for his work.

 

He will be credited, but not on the final map. It will be reiterated that map 2 was made on the basis of his draft. If that's not the case, I'd rather have my credits removed from the map than have my name directly associated with Johnny.

Edited December 22, 2023 by The Royal We

[The Royal We]

4 minutes ago, Johnny Cruelty said:

I didn't wanna play it at the time because I saw the entire thing in stream on discord, not because I simply hated it, plus I only disliked a few changes not the entire map because it was different from the previous version, like some secrets removed and stuff, I like the map, but maybe I spoke the wrong words at the time, and I didn't know watching a entire level being 100%ed is different from playing it

 

plus, it is still my work too, sure I may've made mistakes, but it doesn't give you the right to discredit me when I put lots of effort into the map

We have the entire meeting of that day recorded and we know what is true in your words and what is not.
You'll be credited for everything you've done, rest assured.

[DoomGappy]

38 minutes ago, Johnny Cruelty said:

Hey, also uhh, can I be credited for map02 and map03? I started both maps and then they got heavily reworked but I didn't get any credit for them

 

please and thank you.

No, I'm sorry, but they won't. We can include the original maps you made in the compilation, but we have no obligation to include your credits for map02 and map03. I think this is as good a time as any to make some things very clear:

1 - I never wanted to become the project lead. I made as much effort as possible to keep you as project lead, clean your slate with the many people that you had insulted, and save face for you around the forums. You have no idea how many people I reached out to just to keep this project alive. You have no idea how much effort it was to improve the map that you smugly refused to play like a brat. No, the credit for map02 goes to me and @The Royal We. What you made was a rough draft, that we respected as much as possible, and you can clearly see it if you play the original version, which is avaliable here: Amalgoom - maps01 and map02.rar

The only credit you will get is for those original maps, which will be included in the megawad somehow if you so choose.

2 - The same thing goes for @SpaceCat_2001's map03. I don't know how much you've contributed to it, but the original version was scrapped and remade from scratch. I don't think you deserve any credit for it, but it's up to him to decide. But I suspect he also doesn't want to be associated with you.

I will not tolerate any more disrespect from you. I have done more than enough for you, and I have been tolerant many, many, many times. Those who have been with me as project co-leads and managers are aware of it all. There are proofs of this too. You know it, I know it. I've been kind until now, but I will warn you, don't push me any further than this. 

Edited December 22, 2023 by DoomGappy

[plums]

10 minutes ago, The Royal We said:

It will be reiterated that map 2 was made on the basis of his draft.

That would be sufficient IMO, but you should probably add such a note to the current maplist in the thread.

Edited December 22, 2023 by plums

[Johnny Cruelty]

10 minutes ago, DoomGappy said:

No, I'm sorry, but they won't. We can include the original maps you made in the compilation, but we have no obligation to include your credits for map02 and map03. I think this is as good a time as any to make some things very clear:

1 - I never wanted to become the project lead. I made as much effort as possible to keep you as project lead, clean your slate with the many people that you had insulted, and save face for you around the forums. You have no idea how many people I reached out to just to keep this project alive. You have no idea how much effort it was to improve the map that you smugly refused to play like a brat. No, the credit for map02 goes to me and @The Royal We. What you made was a rough draft, that we respected as much as possible, and you can clearly see it if you play the original version, which is avaliable here: Amalgoom - maps01 and map02.rar

The only credit you will get is for those original maps, which will be included in the megawad somehow if you so choose.

2 - The same thing goes for @SpaceCat_2001's map03. I don't know how much you've contributed to it, but the original version was scrapped and remade from scratch. I don't think you deserve any credit for it, but it's up to him to decide. 

I will not tolerate any more disrespect from you. I have done more than enough for you, and I have been tolerant many, many, many times. Those who have been with me as project co-leads and managers are aware of it all. There are proofs of this too. You know it, I know it. I've been kind until now, but I will warn you, don't push me any further than this. 

 

10 minutes ago, DoomGappy said:

that you smugly refused to play like a brat.

yeah because at the time I was tired busy and I watched the entire thing, and I thought watching the entire thing was equal to playing it. I admit I was just lazy and I didn't not wanna play your map out of hatred of the map. , sure I guess maybe it was not nice to say I should've played it later when I felt better, but I wasn't smug about it, nor did I felt smug. I loved your map, but I was clingey and culture shocked on the big changes at the time because a lot of stuff was changed, like the super shotgun area, the chainsaw, the teleporter changes, and the backpack area removed. I was stupid at the time and I wasn't thinking correctly and I should've sat down and thought what to say instead of firing all cylinders. I apologize for pissing you off, but I didn't wanna play your map out of hatred of it, I was just tired and lazy at the time and I watched the whole thing being played in the voicechat stream. I am no0t trying to disrespect, all I ask is credit that's it.


Plus I gave you project lead because I didn't feel mentally capable of leading and I didn't feel like a good person at the time, and you were the smartest guy around

Plus another reason why I didn't wanna play the map at the time, because It was essentially almost the same map, just heavilly modified for better flow so it felt very familar, it also ammounts to me being lazy at the time and being tired. but rest assured, I don't hate it, but I did get scared and disturbed by the changes, because I am not used to change and it takes me a minute to digest and accept it.

Edited December 22, 2023 by Johnny Cruelty

[DoomGappy]

2 minutes ago, Johnny Cruelty said:

 

yeah because at the time I was tired busy and I watched the entire thing, and I thought watching the entire thing was equal to playing it. I admit I was just lazy and I didn't not wanna play your map out of hatred of the map. , sure I guess maybe it was not nice to say I should've played it later when I felt better, but I wasn't smug about it, nor did I felt smug. I loved your map, but I was clingey and culture shocked on the big changes at the time because a lot of stuff was changed, like the super shotgun area, the chainsaw, the teleporter changes, and the backpack area removed. I was stupid at the time and I wasn't thinking correctly and I should've sat down and thought what to say instead of firing all cylinders. I apologize for pissing you off, but I didn't wanna play your map out of hatred of it, I was just tired and lazy at the time and I watched the whole thing being played in the voicechat stream. I am no0t trying to disrespect, all I ask is credit that's it.


Plus I gave you project lead because I didn't feel mentally capable of leading and I didn't feel like a good person at the time, and you were the smartest guy around

I'd rather give you full credits on the map than have my name associated with you, rest assured. Just please let us finish this, and after this is all done, never reach out to me again, never talk to me again and never interact with me again. That's all I ask for.

[Johnny Cruelty]

Just now, DoomGappy said:

I'd rather give you full credits on the map than have my name associated with you, rest assured. Just please let us finish this, and after this is all done, never reach out to me again, never talk to me again and never interact with me again. That's all I ask for.

I rather fix my friendship with you than break your faith, I apologize if I am acting weird or anything, all I asked was just some credit. but you can have all credit if you want if it risks me not being your friend.

 

 

Look, I am not the best person, but I don't wanna be the worse person forever man, I like ya, and you're cool, and my ego and powertrip as a project lead made me stick my head up my ass. I promise to do better but I don't want you to think I am a horrible person, I mean I kinda was but I guess I didn't realize it, It's just I think I let the project and my maps go to my head, that I focused on the map more than my peers and it caused me to get angry. and I didn't intend to, but I did it out of my emotion because I didn't realize I was hurting my friends. 

I will improve but keep my name out of map02 if it means I won't be your friend anymore, I rather have another chance of befriending you than be credited.

 

But rest assured, I am trying better, I haven't had time to read that book of yours more though unfortunately, due to finals, a new job, and other stuff but I will read more this week since I get 18 days off. 

 

But I came here because I just think maybe people could know I worked on the maps too, I didn't come to start shit, I just wanted some people to know "hey johnny laid out the groundwork" but you don't have too now. 

Just please know I am trying and I don't wanna be cruel no more.

 

 

[DankMetal]

Please don't derail the thread please don't derail the thread please don't derail the thread please don't derail the thread

Discuss your situation on private gappy and Johnny, this is not the right place to talk about your relationship right now, even if you both don't like it.

[DoomGappy]

3 minutes ago, Johnny Cruelty said:

I rather fix my friendship with you than break your faith, I apologize if I am acting weird or anything, all I asked was just some credit. but you can have all credit if you want if it risks me not being your friend.

 

 

Look, I am not the best person, but I don't wanna be the worse person forever man, I like ya, and you're cool, and my ego and powertrip as a project lead made me stick my head up my ass. I promise to do better but I don't want you to think I am a horrible person, I mean I kinda was but I guess I didn't realize it, It's just I think I let the project and my maps go to my head, that I focused on the map more than my peers and it caused me to get angry. and I didn't intend to, but I did it out of my emotion because I didn't realize I was hurting my friends. 

I will improve but keep my name out of map02 if it means I won't be your friend anymore, I rather have another chance of befriending you than be credited.

 

But rest assured, I am trying better, I haven't had time to read that book of yours more though unfortunately, due to finals, a new job, and other stuff but I will read more this week since I get 18 days off. 

 

But I came here because I just think maybe people could know I worked on the maps too, I didn't come to start shit, I just wanted some people to know "hey johnny laid out the groundwork" but you don't have too now. 

Just please know I am trying and I don't wanna be cruel no more.

They will know you made the map, it honestly doesn't matter to me. I don't want to be your friend, your acquaintance or have anything to do with you. I will not reply to you and if you keep posting on this thread I will ask the mods to delete the comments. This is as far as this goes. 

[The Royal We]

@DoomGappy, you can take my name off map 02. Even though it was a pleasure to work with you to untangle that mess (and I'm proud of the results of our work) I don't mind if all the credit goes to Johnny since he made the scrap.
I'm very happy to have had the opportunity to work with @DoomGappy on map11 and @tamara mochaccinaon map 05, and I'm proud to be credited alongside both of you. That's good enough for me.

[SpaceCat_2001]

God damn it. It got derailed! I am with Dank on this one, please @DoomGappy @The Royal We keep this discussion in your DMS. I do understand where you all come from but please, I don't wanna this post go into barhaz and then straight to hell