Maps you love(d) to feel stuck in (Hiatus) - Now : a walk in the french community garden

[apichatpong]

Wether due to the extraordinary atmosphere, heavy puzzles, gaming low skill or rediscovering of classic mechanics, I wanted to know in which map you felt, at some point, really stuck but without any form of frustation instead quite the opposite, maybe even saying to yourself : « Hey, I could live in this map ! »

Even if I’ll probably will go with some big maps considered as exploratory, the goal here is not to count all the exploratory maps, nor the puzzly, not even speaking of the big ones, for instance I have a tendency (I know it’s wrong) to instantly close huge explorative maps like Comatose, citadel at the edge of eternity or happy time circus (as impressive as these maps are) and some others that are on the top 100 memorable maps…
As much as I love Lost civilization, there is something exhausting in some maps that make me want to leave at some point…

For instance, I started this thread because of three maps I went through during last weeks or days :

 

- Eviternity II map 1 : Elysium, by Tristan Clarke : the exception that proves the rules, difficult to be stuck in here but, every time I launch this map, I go around and around the ruins of eviternity 1 map 30 and every time I fall to the first step to the hole (that blocks your way back) I feel an overwhelming feeling of sadness… I know I have to go through this hole, I know that the next part of the map is wonderful, but I love the idea of staying in these dark circles…

 

- Sunder map 17 archives of the technomancer by Insane Gazebo : as I’ve already mentioned elsewhere, I’ve never played sunder without cheats so, how the hell could I’ve been stuck in these « linear » switch-pressing maps ?
Well… It took me one year to realize how to play the map correctly… :
- first, strangely, Sunder was one of the first wad I’ve played and this map one of the first map, so I was not exactly at the top of my game at that time and… I don’t believe it now but I remember having difficulties to do the first jump to the switch leading to the elevator that lead to the elevator that lead to the main place ! Due to this ridiculous effort, the Wow effect of entering the archives was multiply by 100. I knew instantly I’ll love to stay there !
- and then… I stood there a while ! I won’t give all the details, only significant ones : in the room after the shushing arch vile, you press a switch that reveal the red switch on the top of a bookshelf that’ll allow you to leave the eastern area… First time I was impatient and used no clip to reach the red switch, then I developed a bit of pride and finally reached it without… but in the end I was always missing quite some kills without knowing how ? In fact I convinced myself that I had to do unpleasant strafe jumps on the various bookshelves to reach the switch… and after some hours I did it (now it takes me one or two tries) ! Three months ago I realized that one had to come back to the « shhhh » room and that a gate opened there leading to all the missed kills and a much easier way to touch the switch…
- the crusher maze : one of the most disorienting place (and punishing) in doom. But loved it.
Anyway, I don’t know if it’s my favorite map from Sunder but one thing is sure, I’m now a bookworm.

- Dimensions 2 : derelict, by Killer5 : only discovered it yesterday and it’s another one that reminds me the path is still long !
A typical void and punishing map by killer5, I can proudly say that I’ve killed 54 of the 1330 monsters, with difficulty, in 30min (not counting the saves and replay), got the yellow card, but now I’m stuck. I know it will take me a lot of time, I know I will fall and fall and fall, I know that I’ll have to iddad continuously, but I freaking LOVE the dark and abstract atmosphere of Killer5’s maps

SO I plan to talk about some other maps like these and would enjoy if some of you do too… I know that my theme description is a bit fuzzy but I’m not the father whipper ! And if no one want, I’ll continue this as an ego-trip :)

 

 

Here are some maps I plan to talk about (with more details than the one above) :

Mouldy :
Going down map 14, secrets and lies
Going down map 23, demonology

 

Insane Gazebo :
Sunder map 09, the cage
Sunder map 16, whispers of the gnarled king
Sunder map 19, city at the mouth of ire
Sunder map 32, harlots garden

 

BPRD :
The mucus flow
Grove

 

Time of death :
Pppp
Esp map 3 : escaping the spiral labyrinth
Esp map 7 : ksp
Esp map 11 : chocolate pain
Esp map 13 : castle lava
Esp map 19 : Cassie Steele
Esp map 20 : double imp act
Esp map 25 : Nina Dobrev 2
Esp 3 maps 2, 3, 4, 6 and 8

 

Ribbiks :
Magnolia map 01
Magnolia map 03
FCFF map 07

 

Dannebubinga and Ribbiks :
Sunlust map 27 : emerald spire
Sunlust map 30 : god machine

 

Ukiro :
Eviternity map 32 : anagnorisis

 

Mechadon :
Eviternity map 24 : gossamer

 

Grimosaur :
You do voodoo

 

Toooooasty
JPCP map 29 : hazmat hazama

 

Kim Andre Malde :
AV 20 : misri halek

 

Roofi :
Tangerine nightmare map 7 :  goetia

 

Killer5 :
Event horizon
Dimensions map 3 : omega minor

 

Huy Pham :
Deus vuult 2, map 13 : eagle’s nest
Deus vuult 2, map 21 : unholy cathedral

 

Benchy and Xulgonoth :
Jack builds a tech base map 1 (yeah, really)
Jack builds a tech base map 3 (yeah, but in fact I’ll explain why I didn’t play the map and in fact loved seeing some notorious youtube stucked in this map)(me being sadistic)

 

TNT devilution (don’t know who are the mappers, lost the list… I’ll refind it)
Map 6 and 13

As you imagine, some of these maps where played cheating (sometimes continuously, sometimes not) but some others where played legit.

Edited May 19 by apichatpong

[volleyvalley]

Just about every Darkwave map in Speed Of Doom, especially MAP06. 

[apichatpong]

Sunlust map 30 : God Machine (Dannebubinga and Ribbiks)

 

So… how to begin ?

At the time I played God machine I didn’t know about doomworld, doomwiki, « best wad this », « best wad that », just downloaded wads blindly and had the bad reflex to gauge their quality with the last maps of the sets. Sunlust was one of them and I soon tried map30.
First impression : instant love !
I had never seen anything like that before. I knew that modern video games offered some majestic landscapes and architecture but since i’ve never been into the 3D thing (realistic or not), didn’t felt concerned.
Here, with the magic of pixels, elaborate but old school textures, polygons, the two mappers (of course!) and, I’ll come back to this, a haunting badalamentiesque midi, you face a grandiose opening room, abstract and futuristic, threatening and cold, godly and morbid !
But… when you’re still a grasshopper, the exploration can turn as silly as joyful !

I already mentioned the midi by Aubrey Hodges… I was so in love with it that I commit a mistake of the newbie kind : turned the music volume high and the sound volume very low, and it lead me to my first fiasco. Just after lowering the bars of the entering gate, I stayed stuck in the first room with this leveled-up yellow teleporter. Of course, I went all around the place but :

 

1 - because of the high-level music, didn’t heard the lowering yellow floor-switch.
2 - didn’t noticed the two yellow bars on the left so when lowered, didn’t see the change.

 

With the obscurity of the room, I missed the left descending path and stayed there for long minutes BUT never, oh never, felt frustrated because, helped by iddad, I was able to walk freely on the nukage and see, feel, fantasize the shape of things to come (you can see a lot and, at the same time, not so much of the map from this entrance).
One of my best remembrance linked to doom : discovering a glance of the high level stuff offered by modern mappers, being stuck and imagine the greatness awaiting (and my imagination was greatly rewarded !).

 

The escape path finally found, began the 3D labyrinth ! And another challenge for me !

Of course, I could speak of the genius room with the respawning machine, say that it’s one of the most chilling idea, especially when done in an old school game where sprites and movements are dated and limited, but to be honest, the impression from this room is, in an equal level, linked to the discovery of the room and to the ending part of the map, after fighting God’s wrath…
No, once again… grasshopper gameplay : what the f… with this first secret ?!?

You can’t imagine how many time I’ve played this opening just to understand how this berserk secret worked ! One time the bar raised, the other time no, and again and again… searched for the logic but flawed… Until I finally realized that during some run I was picking the two armor bonuses, not during others… and that there was a link with the secret opening !

It was the first time I encountered secret’s mechanic like this and when understood it highed up considerably my love for this map (and for doom modding community) ! (For the joke, when playing map 31 of Sunlust I was like « ah ah ! Now I know ! » for the secret… but failed brilliantly in the end of the map with the two health bonuses raising the invisible bridge…)

 

I’m evoking here my play from 1,5 years ago, but, even if I now feel « better » understanding this map, it’s only recently that I managed to get the whole picture, linking all the parts of the penultimate labyrinthic area. For instance, it took me a while to find the shootable switch for the cyberdemon puzzle secret but, even if my eyes saw that after this switch I was back at the beginning of the maze, it took my mind a lot of time to accept it. Same thing when I was falling between two climbing corridor to find myself near the yellow barred area with the respawning chain gunners and the cacodemon horde… And what a strange and disturbing way to enter the cathedral with these two successive teleportations…

 

Getting all the secrets and all the kills was hard hard, but so rewarding, time… then, this bridge, this last teleporter… and the acme of the intertwining of Ribbiks and Dannebubinga skills !
This last arena. Now that I’ve seen some slaughteresque stuff, some impressive legions, nothing come close to the discovering of this last arena, especially after the first part of the map. Even if I reached this place way before playing all the sunlust maps, I felt, in some way, all the fatigue and adrenaline of the 32 maps odyssey leading there. I still remember my feeling of naïve joy when I discovered these perched (and gameplaywise annoying) arch viles, the lightnings etc, so exhilarating !
That ending elevator, I’m pretty sure that there’s not one person in the world who played this map and didn’t empty his magazines during the whole lowering : rockets, shells, cells : everything must go ! God is dead and I need to rest !

 

I know that even some really good players are impressed but don’t like the gameplay of this map. Even on ITYTD it’s a bit pain in the arse but because of all the foregoing stuff I’ve said (and some others, I might went back here about god machine), this map is the first map I’ve played that freakingly punished me (even with cheats) and where I would love to stay !

Edited January 3 by apichatpong

[apichatpong]

1 hour ago, volleyvalley said:

Just about every Darkwave map in Speed Of Doom, especially MAP06. 

You're right !

And I even may talk about map 31, even if it's not a stucking one, because finding the way to the secret exit was sport for my not so old "newby-me".

[apichatpong]

Well, it's kinda egotrippish but I couldn't resist...

I plan to write something saturday about my love for Ribbiks* maps since, after having been - for some reasons - cooled down by the wormwood's episodes (not so much in the gimmick thing + opening the "big maps" I even said to myself "pff, not again..."), I finally played the big ones from wormwood 1, 3, 5 and EU during the last weeks and these are masterpieces, period.

It happened that i've also played again Magnolia map 3, a map I wasn't able to finish, even with godmode, and I don't mean not being able to reach all the secrets, no... I was lost, stuck, whatever you want (missing one of the roman number switch leading to the blue keycard)...

But, as already said, i've tried again... and did it ! (on ITYTD + two fights using iddad), reaching the end, all kills, missing one secret.

Said to myself : "It's silly, now you play on prboom+, you can really try to learn SR50 to get this last secret !"... so I launched Meowgi's practice hub and learned... and finally went back to do this SR50 jump to the last secret, it took me some time but I did it ! Finished this wonderful piece of art in something like 2h30 (tripled if counting the saves and replays).

 

Thanks Ribbiks and Meowgi !

 

*by the way, the succession of Sunlust's God Machine and this next post won't mean I'll only speak about Ribbiks, it's a coincidence ! (And, as a late reaction to someone here who responded to the question "describe sunlust with one word" with the word "Ribbiks", Sunlust (just like God Machine) is as much Ribbiks AND Dannebubinga)

[faceplant641]

On 1/3/2024 at 12:25 PM, apichatpong said:

 

Ukiro :
Eviternity map 32 : anagnorisis

 

 

Kim Andre Malde :
AV 20 : misri halek

Those are two of mine for sure.  Another one is also from Alien Vendetta, Toxic Touch.  I only played it after watching the Dean of Doom episode on AV, and I went in purposefully trying to go against the expectations built by that level's write-up.  And I still got completely absorbed, lost, and addicted.  

[apichatpong]

Well, it seems I forgot about this thread… and now I’m reactivating it with a non-listed map…

 

The Room Below : TimeOfDeath (the map has its own wad but is also map 21 of ESP)

 

It’s all about lucky picks : Yesterday I discovered another great map by roofi because someone bumped an old thread where it was referenced. This roofi map has a very nice marine area with a boat so I posted it in the Doom Boats thread… before posting, I’ve made sure the boat wasn’t already posted and searched for the keyword « roofi » in the page, it happened that roofi responded in the topic but not for his map, for a TOD’s one with a boat seen from underwater.
Didn’t know this map and, intrigued, tried it.

 

First, it’s not implemented so, if you want a « simpler » way you may try ITYTD (as said on the « ITYTD exists » thread, this skill level is well adapted to tough maps with lots of monsters)… or, you can do like me a first playthrough with iddad and then come back and try your best (turns out I ended cheating again on some (non-rare) parts, especially near the end, especially with what goes from the « barons corridor »)… but, even if Zalewa referred this map as a « beatable TOD map » on idgames, it’s still very very tough.

 

This map leaves you with a very strange feeling : one may say it’s « linear » because there is a room with a red key, behind the red door you travel to find the blue key, behind the blue door you make your way to the yellow key etc but, this view of the map is misleading.
Right above I was speaking about the incredible 3D maze on the first part of God machine, the impression you get here is that the 3D maze is even more amazing !
Everyone who tried TOD maps know how good he is with tricks, changing the whole architecture of a room, disorient the player… I’m far from having played all his maps but this one is maybe the AAA one. Prior to that, I was considering PPPP as his masterpiece, now… I don’t know.

 

The constant machinery noises, the stock choice of « sign of evil », the way he has to guide you with monsters growls, the amount of bizarre stuff (the underwater room of course, but also these small rooms with a switch activating a crusher to kill stucked and inoffensive former human, shotgunner, imp, pinkie… the disappearing cybers at the beginning, the fact that the first you really face is more a scarecrow than something else (with a very efficient crusher to end him)…), the out of the window  and in the dark « menace » of some isolated imps, the exponentially increasing intricate-level of the different keys sectors…) the lowering and rising sectors, the rooms below, hidden… longs stairs, teleports, the fact that you really have no idea at what level you are, compare to the « sea-level »… and this « infamous » barons corridor marathon where you have to click and click a repeatable switch teleporting more and more barons on a tight corridor ( with limited ammo) and which serve as an harassing rhythm transition between a low tempo first part with small rooms and a faster one aiming to the exit (but not without some back and forth action), all this lead to a tricky  and deeply impressive « tour de force ».

 

No archviles, no revenants trap, no chaingunners, no pain elementals, it’s DOOM 1… but, man, you’ll learn to hate some barons and, of course, a whole bunch of cybers among which you won’t find a lot of helpers (thinking again, I was wrong, the first cyber you really face is not the « scarecrow » I evoked earlier but one of the rare who can be considered as an ally during combat). They are everywhere, you constantly hear through the walls the ones expecting you (on the next room or via teleportation) and when, in the end, you thought you killed them all, they re-appears as some « little stones » to guide the lost « Hop-o'-my Thumb » you became, abandoned by his God in this technical and mysterious Hell.

 

The Par time is 36min for this map, it took me much more (not counting saves and considering the cheating parts) but, if you ask me, I could have stay there for years !

 

SO, I imagine that TOD fan club’s members already knew this map, I also know that it’s usual to say TOD's maps are not for everyone… but… If you consider this map is not for you only  because of difficulty then TRY IT ! I guess — I might be wrong — that every doom player, not considering skills, feel at some point the need to « rest » while playing maps… If you’re not up to the challenge then play this map with invulnerability, it’s still quite an awesome adventure (and a motivation to improve)(and a fucking masterpiece) !

 

Edit : and for people like me for whom managing difference between ports is still a bit blurry, with GZdoom on default compatibility, there is a problem in a room where stairs don't rise high enough to continue your playthrough... With prboom+, tried it first with an appearingly outdated version of doom 1 and the map bugged, but worked fine with doomv1.9 onn complevel 2.

Edited March 17 by apichatpong

[apichatpong]

Well... a bit tired of writing so i'll cut to the chase and change temporarily my interest. Now, i'm gonna play the French Doom Community catalogue, more or less fully downloaded, and blind in the following sense : I randomly will try maps and, apart from trying to finish them, i'll try to guess the mapper.

Big step for me : I'll try UVmax.

 

So, let start with my yesterday and today playthrough :

 

1 --- Uplift by Subject 119.

Map ended, UVmax, around 20min. Mapper Guess : wrong ! Didn't really knew about Subject 119 except for the tragic part and the hommage in the Tangerine Nightmare credits map. Well, it's a pretty good intricate map, sophisticated layout, run&gun oriented with lot of hitscanners, no punishing traps, really liked it !!

 

2 --- Cybernity by FranckFrag.

5 levels of cramped tech/cybernetic landcapes, close encounters, mostly hitscanners, UV without saves for the first three maps, with saves for the last two. Missed some secrets on three maps. Mapper Guess : Right !

Excellent work, greatly detailled, very well thought, intense and micro-adventurous ! Loved it, (unfinished) hidden gem !

 

3 --- Also from the FranckFrag unfinished projects, tried "other ff maps", realised quickly it was over my skills on UV, went back to ITYTD, managed to travel a bit on the first map but. since keys are not on the map, couldn't finish it. Seemed promissing though. Mapper guess : none, knew it was from FF.

 

4 --- Quiet Stroll by Datacore.

Beaten UV with saves, though I think I could beat it UVmax (especially If you find the BFG secret (which I didn't)). Mapper guess : right !

A very nice map with some high-tier monsters but not hardcore. Restricted to doom II textures, maybe needed a bit more detailing but It's a very pleasant, a bit intricate, map I enjoyed playing a lot ! Great one !

 

5 --- Drama Pizza and Tortilla by Datacore.

Beaten UV, first tried HMP because of the first (false) encounter (got afraid). Easy on HMP, end a bit. tougher on UV. Had to play "reality" to survive the last fight, I imagine you have to do a combined archvile jump to get the secret BFG, didn't manage to do it. Guess mapper : hum, thought about Datacore because of the first room, then was convinced it wasn't him since it's the first map of that kind from him that I play.

A bit Jokewad but very nice one !

 

6 --- Heaven Stroll by Roofi

Beaten UVMax. Mapper guess : right (but after some time)

Another excellent map by roofi, not that difficult, he really has "le chic" for detailed, doomcuted, expressive adventurous maps. Loved it, hidden gem.

 

7 --- Hellish Breakfast by Datacore

Beaten UV (with luck in the end because the cyber rockets were blocked by the escalator I managed to take after ending my plasma on him, so could finish him with ssg). Mapper Guess : wrong !

Layout is really cool, as is the progression. Fight are approachable even with high-tier monsters, regularly expected some meaner traps but the reason forr that will be explained below. Though, I played very safely to end it and had to peek-a-boo some fights (especially the room with four stucked revenants). A really good one !

 

Overall, the levels I've tried on these first two rounds were much easier than the usual difficulty level from these guys from the megawads I've already played... this explain my success for some on UV.

 

 

 

 

Edited May 8 by apichatpong

[apichatpong]

There is a God and he doesn’t like me.

Maybe I gave the stick to be beaten with my yesterday last sentence ?
Well, the random number generator put me on… Plutonia Revisited Community Project.

There wasn’t any « Guess the mapper » since I had to look at doom wiki to find the slots claimed by Frenchmen and so knew who did what.
To be honest, since these maps are very respectful of Plutonia, I won’t have guessed right, I think, except for map 23 that smells the WH-Wilou.

8 --- PRCP Map 08 by FranckFrag (yesterday evening)
First tried on HMP, beaten with some difficulties (some bad choices of route… had a tendency to forgot there was some ammo near the invisible bridge entrance so decided to let some ascending/lowering hitscanners alive and they didn’t thanked me for that, but it was more finishing me after some punishing high-tier encounters). But let me say I was proud of that and decided to try it single segment HMP once the secret BFG discovered. Did it !
Then tried UV and, at first it didn’t seemed that different but : the big HK fight, even with the BFG that you can quickly get after starting the fight, is harder and, since I wanted to save cells for cyberdemon, I did most of the work with RL and ran short on rockets, since there are 10 more barons, died 0 times there on HMP, 10 times or more on UV. Anyway, managed to UV 100% the map but with saves !
The runs, saves, deaths, route tries etc took me 1h15, the UV run with saves 16min.
I really loved the different styles of challenges this map offers, short, intense, very Plutonia : great one !

9 --- PRCP Map 10 by JC Dorne (got the map idea yesterday, beat it this morning)
The big surprise for me ! Once you realized that you can save the invuln’ for the resurrecting archvile that appears on your back on the bridge and, then, for most of the fight on red key room, the map reveals itself being, not easy, but not that difficult. It took me three tries to UVMax it.
Really loved that one, short but elaborate layout, not punishing, great rhythm and, for the apprentice, a nice feeling of improvement !

 

 

10 --- PRCP Map 23 by WH-Wilou (two hours this morning)
… then the sneaky one ! Why sneaky ? Well, you are not supposed to go from Map 10 to Map 23 but that’s my rules… after the « improvement feeling » of JCD’s map I took a bit of confidence and tried directly Map 23 UV with saves… Let say that the map has a well thought difficulty curve !
Of course I was snipped by snippers in the beginning, chaingunners, imps, mancubus, arachnotrons are always well placed for that but, the first third of this average-semibig map let me imagine I could beat it UVMax… After blue key fight it became : « maybe UV with saves », after red key’s one « OK, HMPmax »… ended with HMP 100% with saves. But what an achievement for me !
I really loved that map, cursed a lot to the snipers, died a lot, enjoyed beating easily the two classic scarecrows (the spidey then the cybie (who was of great help killing barons ! Thanks man !)), also enjoyed losing myself a bit, searching secrets, always rewarding ! Can’t imagine the map without BFG though.
Wonderful exhausting one !

(11) --- PRCP Map 32 by WH-Wilou
I may have improved a bit but I’m still panicking in the « Slaughter Canal Historique » situation. Was exhausted, didn’t had the guts. I’ll postpone it for later during my catalogue exploration.

Overall, these maps were harder (sometimes way harder) than the preceding ones but, one thing that helped me to stay there was the fact that they are quite generous on ammo, even on UV, so not THAT sadistic.

That's all for today.

Edited May 9 by apichatpong

[apichatpong]

The last three days :

 

12 - Hommage 25 by FranckFrag

Beaten UVMAX (blind for some maps). Guess the mapper : Right.
An excellent tribute to the first 6 maps of Doom II. Reinterpretation is, at the same time, open and faithful. It’s a bit tougher than the original maps, more high tier monsters, but they are not that threatening and, after maybe dying once because of surprise, are not really difficult to deal with.
Don’t know if FranckFrag plan to finish it but it’s a very good job !

 

13 - Mayhem 2022 map 03 et 05 by roofi.
Was kinda afraid because, for some maybe wrong reasons, I think the Mayhem series is quite challenging. Once again, my disputable rule limiting myself to Frenchies maps biased things and… those maps where easy ones (in some sense, it’s logical when considering the slot numbers…). Guess the mapper : none, had to check doom wiki for the slots and so knew about the mapper.
Mostly low tier monsters, beaten UVMax blind, very enjoyable because of great layout, smart use of different floor levels and, as always (’til now) nice doomcutes. Thinking again, I’m sure I got all kills and secrets for map 05 but remember I missed the BFG on map 03 so… might not be max for map 03. Though, I’m not sure the BFG is reachable… had the same question with another roofi map (talk about it below).
Great first episode maps !

 

14 - Quandy crush by Datacore.
Guess the mapper : right (because I now know (after his pizza wad) that Datacore can propose that kind of semi-joke — sketch of a fight situation’s wad.
A short wad, with some traps that killed me but are easily avoidable on second run.
Short but fun, fun but short.

 

15 - Supermarché by roofi.
A doom 1 map in the typical style of roofi. For having tried some time ago other standalone maps by this mapper, I know there are some really tough ones but, this one is even easier than Heaven Stroll.
Beaten UVMAX but after one or two deaths because of shitty gameplay. Guess the mapper : already knew it was by roofi.
Step by step, this guy propose expressive, « naturalist », maps that may lead to a great compilation megawad, like TimeOfDeath ESPs. As said above, I know there are more tougher ones (for instance, the one with lots and lots of crates), but I’m feeling very well in those « easy » ones.
I’m sure I’ve got all the secrets and all kills but couldn’t reach the BFG. In fact it’s really non-necessary and I guess it’s a way to express some childhood memories when we were desiring heavily some toys at malls before days, weeks, months later realizing they were chimera.
Loved that one !

 

16 - 10 line genocide map 02 by roofi
An anecdotic map by roofi in a was which is supposed to be played continuously to get the overall feeling.

 

17 - Community chest 4 - map 01, 09 and 28 by WH-Wilou.
Already talked somewhere else about those ones. Guess the mapper : knew before it was Wilou.
Beaten UVMAX for 01 and 09, HMP with saves for map 28 (I’ll come back to that).

 

Map 01 is a great easy opener, with atmosphere. The map reveals itself step by step with waves of hitscanners or imps in a satisfying shooting show. Really cool !

 

Map 09 is an awesome map. You start exposed and under fire and have to male a choice for your trip. I chose to quickly go behind me and reach the door to get shotgun. Then, it’s quite open and, on my first playthrough with saves, I decided to do everything I could on that part of the map, quickly realizing there might be other route since you are getting some rockets but no rocket launcher. You also have some HK or Barons to kill your ammo, this lead me to a very prudent approach, especially for the red key fight. After killing everything there, I was blocked by yellow door and went on a quest for yellow, without knowing where it was… decided to go back to the open entrance and to jump down to some big room. Those fights are manageable even though ammo tight and, on first play though, lost quite some health. Got the yellow key, went back to yellow door, open the right after red bars… and realized I missed something. A big bunch of revenants with an archvile (plus, if I remember well, some spectres coming behind you (not sure about that)… all of this with 24 bullets, 7 shells, 45 rockets BUT no rocket launcher ! So, I decided to look for the RL… I then remembered there was elevated rockets in the big down room… and realized the RL was there but unreachable. It’s a bit ridiculous but this lead me to « moves » I’m quite proud of.
To get the RL you have to take a route inside a cavernous entrance with a snipping revenant, then a sniping chaingunner right on top of an elevator, then some other bad stuff. I arrived there very low on health and ammo, manage to refuel a bit but usually losing again health and ammo because of new monsters. Arrived at a critical point where I was 4% health with some shells, had no choice : had to run on stairs, avoid projectiles from monsters near the exit area, avoid bullets from chaingunner, then on a tight corridor shoot an arachnotron so it leaves me just enough space to jump down to new corridor (leading to a switch opening door to a bridge leading to RL)(corridor just above the one leading me to stairs to exit area, arachnotron etc). Some monsters appears, space is tight, jumped down to get more room to kill stuff… then had to go, again, through the chaingunner, arachnotron… managed to press switch, took the bridge, save here, got the rocket launcher and died to a pain elemental (If I remember well)… but it was a relief ! I know, it’s not exactly a « tour de force », and I missed to express some small details about refueling (ammo or health), but to me it was an achievement ! When I re-started playing doom 1year and half ago, I never imagined I could have the will to try that kind of moves.
Well, believe it or not, with the RL the map end was a « promenade de santé » (especially with a well placed secret invuln’ that I took just before the red bars fight which, obviously, became easy !
Still obviously, I’m sure there is a way to get the RL much earlier but, knowing my way through this first route, I tried UVMAX this way and managed to do it after some unsuccessful tries.
Loved that map !

 

Map 28 : I’ll be much shorter here, even though it’s Wilou big map on the project. Tried it HMP because, one year ago, I already tried the map (with cheats) and I was remembering a really tough one.
In fact, the first half is not that difficult while very enjoyable. When deeper in the cavernous fortress, one thing is sure, It’s tough ! Especially when you miss the BFG’s secret ! Had to look on doom wiki to get it.
I’m quite proud to have finished it, even HMP with saves, and I’ll try it again later on UV (still with saves, map is too big).
Like I’ve said elsewhere, this map, with the 2 others, could be a 3 maps-wad’s prequel to Swim with the whales. Not as hard as SWTW but for « improving players » who like challenges ! Map 28 is now one of my favorite map !

 

18 - Castle Courtyard by Subject 119
Beaten UVMax after some silly deaths… Guess the mapper : Wrong.
A nice map by Subject 119, not as good as the previous one from him I’ve played though. Classic progression with key hunting, the two big separate areas have their own different atmosphere and, so, different kind of threat approach. Fights are not that difficult but I died some times because of surprise or being stucked…
I liked that one as a relieving transition… at that point Ii didn’t know it will be that kind of transition but :

 

19 - Man on the Moon by yugiboy85
Oh boy ! First time I beat UV a map with that much monsters. I know there is a quite good amount of hitscanners and imps but there is also a quite good amount of challenging fights. I know that the bigger is not necessarily the harder but, this one was quite something of a challenge (for me at least)!
Beaten UV with saves in 2h20 (took some time to find secrets (still miss one) and also to simply wander in already beaten areas) but this was done on two days with a global time close to 5h.
Guess the mapper : already knew its was yugiboy85.
Here was my global route :

1 - entrance fights to get to the big hall leading to red, yellow, blue and green areas.
2 - plasma secret
3 - big hall fight
4 - Blue key area
5 - Yellow key area
6 - Red key area
7 - Green key BFG area
8 - end fights.

To say it quick, here are the area where I had the most difficulties :
a) Plasma secret : took me something like 20 attempts
b) Blue key area end fight with the revenants protecting archvile on one side, arachnotron, pinkies and hitscanners on the other side (with lots of barons as second wave)(took me also something like 20 attempts, I instinctively got the right idea focusing on the archvile but never managed to get it with the rocketlauncher so tried two or three others (bad) strategies, took a pause, tried again with the « archvile first »’s strategy and got it easily. You may ask, why not using the Plasma gun ? Yeah, I know, but I’m a bit conservative with this weapon, when I think it’s unavoidable I use it, otherwise, I try with the rest of the arsenal.)
c) End fight : first, I launched a bad rocket and took lot of splash damage, just after the big imps corridor with revenants on left and right so was 1% health with some hitscanners to come. Could have redone the fight but wanted to try the challenge. But this was easy peasy compared to the last fight and all his waves of high tier monsters, even though there was a megasphere to refuel just before starting it. Needed some attempts to understand that Cyberdemons infighting is good but, at some time, you really have to kill them, they won’t do all the job for you. Then the archviles annoyed me a lot… and it took me quite some time to realize there was mega armor and soul spheres to refuel… Hum hum…
Anyway, what a relief it was to end this terrific and terrifying fight !

 

On the yellow key area, died some times in the beginning fight with the lowering walls ending with an archvile but, strangely, died only a few times to the next big fight and only on the first part with mancubus, revenants or arachnotron projectiles.

 

On the red key area, did some bad moves then realized there was a teleporter (I imagine opened by the hidden switch at the beginning of the red area) which permit you to cheese the cyberdemon fight. Next was RL fiesta.

 

Died also to yugiboy’s lowering traps fetish !

 

Green area : I don’t know what to say… I surprised myself not dying (but losing some health and armor, yeah !) to the BFG fight and then, that was the point where being ammo-conservative was a good move !!! The last fight with two cybers and two archviles (plus other stuff and some corpses to respawn)… When I realized the stairs to the great hall were open, I jumped there, hide, let the guys infight and then, easily approached the remaining cybers with lot of cells and so lot of rooms to imprecise BFG shots to kill them !

 

More generally, this map is absolutely impressive, the intricate and correlated layout amazed me, I had some great time coming back on already done areas to search for health, armor or ammo… or just feel the map. There was an awesome equilibrium between hard fights and some relieving ones : yugiboy organize the player some great « fun tunnels » with rocket launcher play ! (Hordes of imps or hitscanners to joyfully (and without anxiety) gib, loved the one at the end).
A wonderful map !!! (Really to big and tough for me to try single segment but, man, never thought 6 months ago I could beat it UV with saves…)

 

 

I'll take a two or three day pause before next wad, it was mandatory, at some point I had to randomly fell on some megawad (I'll end the trip with the three ones I already played : Tangerine Nightmare, Flesharmonic and Le gars qui a fait Doom)... It will be 3 heures d'agonie 2.

 

Edited May 12 by apichatpong

[apichatpong]

SO... 3 heures d'agonie 2...

 

I vaguely remember what MtPain27 said about the 3h d'agonie serie, something about becoming wild at some point, more or less around the Darkwave1000 slots, some maps before, and the maps after it... and I'm far from having the skills of MtPain27.

I chickened fully and decided to play it on UV without save, yes, but continuously.

Started yesterday and died for the first time today.

The only "guess the mapper" I got right were map 04 and map 06.

My first death came on map 08 after being rectified by the yellow key fight because, mostly, of panic.

Until map 06 I've tried not to use weapons you're not supposed to have during playthroughs (except for the ssg) but... the two archviles behind the red door, archviles I managed badly, were resurrecting so many corpses I had to use RL.

 

On the difficulty level it is frightening on two ways :

 

1 - these maps are doable on continuous play but, map 04 (the start specifically), map 06, map 08 (and, at some lower level, map 03 and map 07 (especially, for this last one, when you lose stupidly health because, discovering the map, you receive damage, think it's a hidden zombieman or shotgunner, turn around a bit... and realize that it was just the WATER being damaging...)), all these maps must be much more difficult (at least for me) pistol start and...

2 - It's just the first episode !

 

Until now, my favorite maps were map 03 and 06 but I liked all of them (didn't retried map 08 yet but it's promissing).

 

Had a nice time but, for some reasons, I'm pretty sur it won't last... We'll see.

 

PS : did a quick count and realised there is something like 500 maps made by French community... not sure I'll be able to go to the end of my project (not even speaking about difficulty)... but I'll do my best.

 

 

Edited May 16 by apichatpong

[apichatpong]

Bon…
First, about the « guess the mapper » thing, lost the reflex while playing megawads… Let say that, since last time and from where I am right now, got only two obvious guesses : Map 13 is FranckFrag (since I’ve « tried » Swift death last year, I instantly recognized those rough starts and cramped areas) and Map 31 is WH-Wilou84 (feels very Stardate 20X6 and WH at the same time). Also, since I’m playing continuously, I save at the end of maps because those French sometimes love hardcore starts so, sometimes I don’t end the level and don’t relievedly read the name of my torturer… and when, after a pause, I restart, I just want to jump into maps and forget to read names… Anyway, this is anecdotic.

 

Another overall thinking :  This set is becoming tough and it’s a bit frightening since I’ve re-watched (just) the ranking done by Dean of Doom and 3h d’agonie 2 only got B- for overall difficulty. I personally find short frantic speedmaps tougher than, for instance, the longer maps I’ve played from French Community, even CC4 Map 28, PRCP 23 or Man on the Moon… also, believe it or not, I have more difficulties here than playing Magnolia ITYTD (even on ITYTD Magnolia is Hard)…
Don’t get me wrong, this is mostly due to my gameplay mode, I mean, single segmenting those long maps IS harder than 3HA’s speedmaps but, when accepting saves, it’s a bit different… at least to me.
Take Man on the Moon, the map is huge, the big fights are well delimited and you constantly have time to rest, wander on the map, refuel… or to say it better, the map’s atmosphere (and the mapper) give you the opportunity to do so.
On speedmaps like these ones, every save is a bit of a shame, the threat is constant, the « psychological » approach is very different.
It’s a bit blahblahblah but, it’s a question I ask myself… why those maps feel tougher for me than bigger, objectively harder, ones ?
One thing is sure, as I’ll say below, there was some hard moments on my runs since last time and… I'm currently crushed and crushed... and crushed by Map 31 (which, I guess, is an appetizer for the second half of the wad)… « comment dire ? Ça promet ! »

 

That said :

 

I’ve beaten map 08 on my third try. Was surprised by the two archviles during second run. After that, the map is, not easy, but less mean. The only difference I had with pistol start was playing with the ssg before finding it on the map (but it help a lot)(because the start is tough).
I really liked the layout and the atmosphere of this map made by Oxyde.

 

Map 09 is a also a very good one (by Sid Zetmeck) ! Less detailed than map 08, also easier (except for the mean archvile placement), but with great rhythm.
Died four : first by Spidermastermind at the end (I was low on health), then on other runs to the archvile and his corpse’s respawning fest. Saved there when I realized I’ve been RNG lucky on first run.

 

Map 10 is not really good and I was sorry to read the name of Jambon since I liked his work on Flesharmonic and Tangerine Nightmare. With SSG, continuous play, it’s easy as f…  … without it’s a slog. Not difficult even If you have to be careful with ammo. Structure is elementary, not much more to say except that : I start to understand with the wads I’ve played the pleasure/pain dialectic of Doom. Even if I’m not at all masochist, it happens that I learned to develop some kind of pleasure from virtual pain… the dialectic Boring/Pleasure is another level I didn’t reached now.

 

Map 11… Ah ! Map 11. I first hated that map.
Once again, the only upgrade from pistol start I restrict myself to was SSG (instead of SG) at start.
First… hitscanners ? OK.
Then, the two switches… here is what I did :
1) clicked the mancubus switch, died, then tried the other with aracnnotrons… died also.
2) tried three or four times to click the two switches and make the baddies infight. Didn’t work.
3 ) return to the mancubus at first. Died also, some times, but stay on that strat and finally got them. Killing the arachnos and the chaingunners was, then, easy. After that, the imps//archvile/cyberdemon fight. The imps/archvile was easy helped by the cyberdemon. I then took the plasma and killed the cyber. That’s maybe the part where playing continuously helped me the most because… I already had cells on my backpack before starting the map so I had enough to kill first cybie, archvile and revenants then second cybie (even if on my first run, I’ve killed the revenants with ssg). So, in fact, it was mostly the beginning I hated on the map.
4) retried it with another strategy : my mind was prepared for the big mancubus fight so it was OK… then, I didn’t open the arachnotrons and went directly to the imps/archvile/cybie fight. Once again, imps/archvile are easy but then, to play more real (or semi-real) I decided to save cells and ssg the cyber, it went good and was satisfying for me ! Next step, kill the second archvile, with plasma ! Then only I clicked the arachno switch which, at that point, release not only arachno/chaigunners but also revenants and, a bit after that, a cyber. The infight went very well, Cyber won but was low on health… Had to Finish him with shells !
5) Tried the same strategy pistol start : did it with saves but it was much more slogish…

So : mixed feeling upon that map. First, hate (1)2) and half of 3) above), then I must say I had fun on part 4), then a bit bored on 5).
It was a JC Dorne map and that was a surprise… didn’t match in any way the maps from him I’ve played from this set or Tangerine nightmare.

 

Map 12 by Memfis.
Second map from this Russian mapper in here, I liked map 07 but this one is better. Once I accepted the fact that going directly on the right at the city entrance was not a good idea, I decided to be « careful » and go for the weapons on left and right after the entrance.  I arrived at this map with 60% health and not so much armor so had some scary moments but I managed to reach the end. Like in some other maps from this wad, the beginning is one difficult part (sometime the hardest, it’s true for map 12), but the rest also had its mean moments and I ended the map with… 26% health… not a good thing because :

 

Map 13 by FranckFrag
It’s not a tough start, it’s a « swift death » start ! With my 26% health it took me SO many attempts to survive ! (Jumped down, killed with given plasma the revenants, stood stuck to the wall, pistoled some snippers behind me, then plasma (and rockets (so cheat from pistol start)) for Barons and HK remaining.). After a short relieving part, you activate two meanly placed archviles + revenants (+ some damaging floor). Finding a strategy is, though, easier. The rest is calm. Overall, that map only have two challenging fights (opening then archviles) and so is not « that » difficult… but it was difficult for me and, man, that start !!! I suppose it’s not that big a deal when compared to what is coming next on the wad…
Anyway : loved that cramped map.

 

Map 14 by Datacore.
Strange how just an, at first, calm and silent opening room can make you think a map is easier than the preceding one… and this feeling is not really right here because, after dealing with the horde of pinkies at the beginning, you essentially will fight 4 tight and tough fight which for three of them led me to some deaths.

1) the corridor with cacos and, at the end, chaingunners guarding a switch reached through lowering platforms, arachnotrons and spectres. After some tries I decided to cheese it, kill chaingunners from far away then, back at the entrance room, the cacos one by one, then one arachno from above, then jumped and killed the rest. You got plasma here which help for the second (easier)) part of the fight (with some more bad stuff on adjacent corridor).
2) Secret SSG fight withe four revenants, easy when you time well a door blocking them).
3) You are confined on a tight box and circle jerked by imps and shotgunners (so with almost no room to dodge imps fireballs), took me like 10 tries to get it.
4) you teleport to a tiny square room with… two Barons… so it’s (remaining) plasma madness ! (In fact, it happened that the barons were re-teleported and so end of the fight was easy !

At that point, I just had to search for the remaining secrets which I finally got… what a joy it was to discover a chain of two secrets leading to a BFG… behind the two barons in the square room (so I imagine that you have to go around them to get BFG before killing them… seems hard to do, though).

So, this map is a bit : « Oh, I have four fights ideas, let link them by a big entrance room »  but I really liked it !

 

Map 15 by Jambon.
Better than map 10 but not at the level expected from Jambon (I guess speed mapping is not his « thing »).

 

Map 31 by WH-Wilou84
I was speaking of tough starts… well, here, I’m served ! Love the atmosphere of this map ! Died A LOT at the beginning, managed to find a strategy to get the plasma and so, end this first fight… was tired and stopped. Did a play though with iddad and… « j’ai encore du pain sur la planche ! »

 

Edited May 19 by apichatpong

[LegendaryEevee]

@apichatpong I just did a playthrough of one of these on my channel The Unholy Trinity WAD the first wad I ever played in 94 the level of exploration being able to hide up in the berserk room (shown @3:00 & 4:20) and snipe enemies in the main Courtyard the movie theater I honestly would take hours to complete this map not because it took that long but the atmosphere and setting just top-notch.

 

2. Eviternity WAD (Download Link) Map18 Dehydration 

 

I have gone on record many times now to say when it comes to exploration this is my favorite map to this day I cannot wait until I get to this wad on my channel to cover it. It is a literal power or sewage plant not sure which one it has laser traps you can do it in any order you want it has so many iconic set pieces they would take forever to describe here you can literally sit on top of a tall perch near the beginning of the level and snipe enemies all the way halfway across the level honestly you could never leave this map you could take an entire day just enjoying the atmosphere if you didn't care to run through it.

 

3. Earth WAD (Download Link)

 

Literally just pick a level it doesn't even matter what level there's only ten of them early Doom 2 wad I believe was in '96 the atmosphere setting starting you on a tropical beach as you uncover ancient tombs lost civilizations honestly I never find myself moving quickly through these Maps but get lost in the atmosphere

 

4. Lost Civilization WAD (Download Link)

 

When it comes to massive wads to live in nothing even comes close to this entire wad pack it does not matter which level you pick every one of them look like they were ripped straight out of real life.

Edited May 19 by LegendaryEevee

[apichatpong]

 

 

@LegendaryEevee Wow, I just realized I missed Eviternity's Dehydration (map 19 ;)) An absolute masterpiece of "lose yourself" map !

 

Even if I love Lost civilization, for some reasons I always feel the need to leave the wad and forget it a bit... maybe too open for my taste.

 

Didn't know about Earth nor the unholy trinity, and I quickly will try them !

 

Thanks a lot for the submissions !

[LegendaryEevee]

4 minutes ago, apichatpong said:

 

Didn't know about Earth nor the unholy trinity, and I quickly will try them !

 

Thanks a lot for the submissions !

Absolutely my friend Earth wad can be a bit difficult. Especially how little ammo you're given at times but the levels I feel are the perfect length with Secrets everywhere the immersion is unbelievable with an outstanding midi track of popular real World songs. Trinity I offer footage of honestly something best experienced just taking in the atmosphere honestly I wish more modern wads focused on fine details and atmosphere like this because the immersion is just amazing considering it came out in 94 and what newer versions and Concepts could look like with all of our technology today! 🥳😁

Edited May 19 by LegendaryEevee

[apichatpong]

Ego Ego Ego once again... after a good lunch, went back to map 31 and, once again, on those maps, the hardest parts are beginning and end ! As already said before, died a lot in the beginning, found a strategy and, this afternoon, with three or four "useless" saves, managed to get to the end cybies pair without dying (there I died a lot, especially to the first moving one, since you can hide behind pillars to cheese the second one).

SO, ridiculously but proudly :

 

Map 31 by WH-Wilou84

UV all secrets (cheat for the last one) all kills, some saves, no real help concerning weapons at the beginning from continuous play since I was out of cells, low on shells... and you get ssg fast... but started 123% health, 107% armor.

Anyway, proud of that one ! And terrific map !

[apichatpong]

A bit more about map 31 :

The beginning, as I already said, is tough... Once you get the ssg, the horde of HK, Barons, Revenants and imps with this archvile blocking your way on one direction are lethal ! Archvile brought half of my death but well helped by the wall of tanks forbidding me to move as I wanted. That was my "try to slalom between bad guys and survive" runs. Then I tried to go deeply into the wave of imps  and "hide" to snipe monsters : at first, with help of infighting, I thought it was a good idea... but no.

Finally, while in the preceeding strategy, I realized there was a switch behind the stucked bunch of revenants, opening stairs that could have been a nice place to hide... tried it (you have to led revenants and imps on your left (while facing switch) to open a way to reach the switch) and it worked. While on the stairs with plasma gift, I decided recklessly to jump back and kill everything... didn't worked... So, went patient and careful and sniped enemies one by one from the staircase.

Quickly killed the (stucked) archvile and went down.

The following, 'til the last fight, is really manageable, with ssg and since, from the beginning, Wilou is generous on ammo, you can kill awaiting monsters... the Rocket launcher's trap surprised me but was not that hard, the other wave of enemies appearing with the switch also isn't. Next rooms, the big bunch or revenants on upper corridor (next to armory) is cheesable since, once again, map is generous on ammo, you just have to be careful with sniping  far away mancubus's fireballs. Then, on the blue/red keys room : one cyber appears above you on upper corridor and, at your level, a whole lot of Barons and HK but you can stay close to the wall adjacent to cyber's upper corridor, dodge Barons and HK mssiles and rocket them to death. When they are few left alive, you can go back, refuel a bit and rocket them even more safely. Killing the cybie after is not difficult, you can peek'a'boo with ssg.

The fight after that felt the more difficult before ending : with the red key you have to go back to entrance room and take red door to the upper corridor where the cybie was, you press a switch and this teleport a lot of arachnos. There, i was lucky, chose the right direction (jumping down to armory) and so quickly face the archvile and as quickly killed him before he could respawn too many baddies. Then, re-done the sniping of arachno but it was harder than the revenants sniping before. I have the feeling I skipped some parts of the map's fight (especially two archviles spawning in the entrance room's revenant square (so respawning them)...

I jump to the two cybers fight, as said before, died a lot to the first one but finally went through, had to cheat to find secret exit, "et voilà".

 

I really loved this map which, at the same time, felt really more difficult than previous ones  (feeling helped by the slaugtherish "scarecrow effect") and is doable, and - more important - highly enjoyable for "middle of the road/mediocre" players like me.  Dug the architecture and the texturing : wonderful micro-slaughter one !

 

Map 32 by JC Dorne

There is this great video by MtPain27 about secret levels, I think the pair of secret levels from 3 heures d'agonie is a really cool one ! this gimmicky level is not at all difficult and a welcome break between two intense maps. The tronesque layout is really marking and the gameplay tricks are nice.  As a goodbye to easyness, it's a wonderful one, maybe the easiest level from the set - even if you can die to cybers rockets - but this one has a soul !

 

Map 16 by JC Dorne

Same mapper shoot again, but very differently.

I arrived at Map 32 with 100%/100% and ended it 74%/76% (% of armor from a megasphere), with that, once again, the start of map 16 was a challenge. But, after 3 tries, I survived. After that, with one exception, the rest of the map is quite approachable. Even if you are, at first, surprised by some archviles appearences (there are 8 of them in this "vile sombre"), on second try, they are not that threatening. That's because lot of fights can be cheesed... from the central wooden platform you can play sniper to a whole bunch of monsters, you can also jump down to activate monster infight and return to the platform to let them finish your job (with just the excpetion of pain elemental). The archvile's sandwich after activating the (blue ?) switch can also be cheesed from behind. The only hard part is the red key/rocket launcher part where, after taking the red key, 4 skeletons appear in a tiny tiny square room.

Once again, from what I saw from JCD, it seems, like for Jambon, that 3h speedmapping is not really his "thing". But, this map is okay and I felt happy to finish it alive.

 

Map 17 by Ch0wW

I first thought it was a joke... single shotgun only to face the first big open area with a pit filled with spectres and a horde of imps, two annoying chaingunners perched on towers and two archviles forbiding you quite some space in the area... Then I remembered there was a rocket in the beginning room, I first thought it will be helpful later since you have to come back therre for the yellow key door...  but it was an hint for the secret of the map. Not difficult to find but mandatory !!! After finding it and receiving my RL,, the first part of the map became more doable and was very enjoyable !! When the yellow key picked, you come back to the entrance and open the yellow door to a new big open area, much more slog in my opinion. After killing arachno-snipers on both side and some cacos, short on ideas, I went back and force to ssg/plasma two pits full of revenants plus another bunch of them facing me. It was not very fun and, at some point, forgot my fear of a big ending encounter, I jumped there and finished the job with plasma. The final encounter was just a harmless mancubus.

Even considering this last part, I enjoyed that map !

 

Map 18 by Plut

Ô boy ! (bis)

This might be the map with the biggest differences between continuous and pistol start.

Continuous and playing with your full arsenal, it's not a "promenade de santé" but quite (BFG this, BFG that, this and that being archviles). Pistol start or continuous restricted to the intended arsenal (with maybe extra ammo, though), it's a sadistic level and maybe the point leading me to reconsider my approach of the wad.

I use saves but only for deaths, never to replay a part in order to end it with better health/armor/ammo... right now, I'm facing a wall.

It happens I beat map 18 seven times. First on continuous but restricted, then on continuous full arsenal, then pistol start, then the rest again on continuous restricted. Why so many times ? because I want to start map 19 with more than 23% health 0% armor (I know there is soulsphere and amor after the first fight of map 19 but I don't know why, I guess I might be conservative with them since this map looks hard).

Anyway, I was able to finish it with 42% health... I'll stay to that.

Viciously, this map open slowly with imps to pistol. The wandering chaingunner might cause some damage, he is annoying but killable... well, it was just an appetizer and an infinitesimal hnt of things to come.

This map is sadistic traps after sadistic traps. It's Plutonia inside a Darkwave0000 decorum (this make me fear even more the still far but approaching "Darkwave0000 style in Darkwave0000 decorum"'s map 28). In some ways, this map is the opposite of map 16 : every archvile is placed in a really vicious way leading to pile of deaths. I think this map is, 'til now, the map where I died the most, at the point that, strongly considering my low skills, it felt (for me) RNG based.

Still don't know if there is a strategy i'm missing.

But... all that said, I loved this map !

Because, eh, I dit it so it's rreally doable, the fights are intense, the layout is great, descending again and again on this cave was a treat for the eyes (even the "in the dark" part ! regarding that part, the penultimate trap with revenants, chaingunner, HK start in the light but I decided first (before changing my mind) to go back at the entrance of the cavern... and it was not fun to shot blind rockets (because without seeing monsters) when you are low on them.).

A great one !

 

Started map 19 with low health... Saw the battlefield... Stopped for today.

 

 

Edited May 20 by apichatpong

[apichatpong]

Map 19 by WH-Wilou84

 

Above, I evoked a change of approach on gameplay... it happens I was "forced" to do it because of some engine wizardry way above my head... I started my run on GZdoom (because : 1) easier to launch 2) much more rooms for saves (limited to 6-8 on prboom+)) and faced difficulties on map 19 because I was playing default compatibility which, as @Ravendesk had the intuition, linked to MBF, is "more difficult" regarding infights. I changed to boom(strict) and even doom(strict)(since it's vanilla) and it felt a bit better but, in the end, I decided to start new runs on prboom+.

With my first tries on gzdoom I was close to throw the towel but one or two tries on prboom revived me.

In the end, here is what I did (on prboom+)(from the first time since map 1 : Pistol Start) :

 

1 - two or three tries diying on the big welcoming fight in central open area.

2 - tried HNTR to "see" what the map has for me... and beat it first try single segment (even if there is much less monsters, I was quite happy of this)

3 - retried pistol start UV with saves and managed to beat it !

 

some "thoughts" and details :

 

- The first big open fight stay for me as the most difficult. I beat it once and didn't tried it again. My strategy was a bit "no strategy and improvise". Died a lot there.

- After the floor cleaned, the killing of perched revenants, Hell nobles, mancubus was easy (because there is generous amount of ammo).

- Killed the two archviles (the ones mixed with hell nobles where the secret megasphere is) with ssg (annoying part), then went to take the RL, killed quickly cacos and pain elementals then finished with rockets the teleporting archviles at the very beginning of the area.

- Finished the residues of Hell nobles with rockets and so the area was cleaned !

- Yellow key door was not that difficult with RL and Plasma (that I saved as much as I could)

- The next big step was the 40-50 revenants attack. Died quite some time there (at first, I tried to run around the area, end badly, then I tried to shot them from above, also didn't end well...) Then, I found, in two times, a strategy :

 a) refuged myself on the red key area and rocket them from here... but it wasn't enough because I was short on rockets and ssg the rest of the guys while dodging their rockets  was difficult. So, from the red key area, I went up oon stairs and jumped back inside the open area and realized the place where revenants were stocked was full of rocket boxes. I refueled and then :

 b) did the same stuff as in a) but on the yellow key door corridor. Tried this strategy 3-4 times, always ended well.

- Then, I think, pressing a switch released an archviles on the rred key area and bunch of low tier monsters at  the entrance. Killed easily the archvile and finished the low tiers with chaingun.

- After that, the two cyberdemons. I might have been lucky but got it on first try. Had to ssg the second one.

- I realize I forgot a fight with a bunch of pain elementals (four at least) died there once but got it on second try.

- Now, access to red key was granted, killing the archvile and respawned HK was not difficult.

- taking the red key teleport archviles at the entrance. I forgot it from my HNTR run and died there once.

- Last thing was opening red door and easily, relievedly, plasma two pain elementals.

- One last word, as I'm a conservative guy (and, now, a bit into challenges), I did everything without the secret megasphere so, ended the map 200/200 (which is without consequences since, now, i'll try pistol start for remaining maps).

 

It was a hell of a ride. Maybe my enthusiasm is multiplied because of the challenge it was for me but I deeply loved playing this map, really !

 

 

 

[apichatpong]

Busy week and also I tried other maps so… only played today.

 

I’m aware of the 26-27-28-29 high difficulty so it’s non impossible that the maps I’ll talk about today are the last for quite some time… we’ll see.
I won’t play map30 legit since it’s pure IoS and I don’t like IoS.

The lot 20 to 25 (with one exception) felt like a breather after map 31+16 to 19. A welcomed breather ! But it’s the calm before the storm…

 

Map 20 by Ch0oW UV with saves then single segment, pistol start, all kills all secrets

First try, killed the imps, shoot the switches, nothing happened… took the teleporter and died.
Because « nothing happened », on next tries didn’t waste bullets on switches and jumped directly into the teleporter… also died, quite some times.
Then, re-tried shooting the switches and ended realizing it was opening a corridor, a room with ammo, a friendly place to hide ! And my life changed.
After that, once some traps known, it’s relatively easy to finish the map.
After the revenants pain elementals room (I left the revenants alive), go left to mancubus place, dodge on the right the appearing baddies, take some ammo and patiently kill stuff from safe place.
The yellow key door labyrinth is easy, even the traps are not lethal, but it has the advantage to give you ammo and weapons (and is also a nice idea).
With this and a more complete arsenal from secret areas, the yellow door/blue key fight is easy. The 3 archviles and stuff appearing after taking the blue key are more annoying but doable in long distance fight.
The stucked spidermastermind in the end is also not that threatening.
Tried single segment and got it on second try.
It’s a nice varied map, not difficult but with very enjoyable encounters ! Liked it !

 

Map 21 by Memfis UV with saves, pistol start, all kills and secrets.

Never underestimate hitscanners… especially when they are shotgunners and chaingunners.
Since the two imps from map 20’s beginning weren’t a real fight and that I consider the revenants/pinkies, pain elementals as the first fight from this map, the opening of map 21 was, at first sight, a « calm » beginning after a though serie of rough start from map 11 to map 20. But… Never underestimate hitscanners.
I never died in that beginning but lost regularly too much health to face the big jumping-down’s choice to come. You want to do a quick aligned chaingun fiesta to kill some shotgunners and the chaingunner but it’s easier to say than to do.
I managed to end this fight with enough health (helped by realizing that rather than jumping left or right you can jump in the middle and take some health, but, before jumping don’t forget to kill the shotgunners on high pilars and chaingun the more you can the pain elemental on the left).
So… jumped left, ended pain elementals with ssg while hiding from the mancubus. The rest was not difficult (didn’t kill the mancubus though).
Behind the door lie chaingunner and archvile. This last one being not really threatening since you can shoot him from distance and, after starting to retaliate, he quickly changes target to the chaingunner.
For the next fight, I decided to kill the hitscanners which made the revenants and the mancubus infight, then hide on the staircase before killing the mancubus (who won the fight against his pals).
The yellow key fight killed me quite some times… before I realized I could lower the high pilar with rocket launcher. I then went back to the yellow key fight, killed first the archvile then the revenant and finish the hitscanners.
After that, I came back to the left entrance room, killed the mancubus, the snipping chaingunners, the teleporting revenant and started my way on the « plasma gun side ».
The beginning fight is easier than it’s « RL » counterpart and so is, even if once again hitscanners are annoying, the red key area fight (after plasma-ing the welcoming archvile and revenants).
The above rendition of my run may let some reader think is not very difficult. It’s not a really hard one but I was regularly on the edge regarding health and didn’t tried it single segment.
Overall, I did enjoy this map, intense but not punishing, fast, well organized, quite a ride !

 

Map 22 by NilsTheRed UV with saves then single segment, pistol start, all kills and secrets.

At first I was really asking myself about this map’s slot… Almost the entire run is hitscanners or imps (and not threatening ones) and some isolated high tiers (pain elementals, revenants, baron) always with adapted weapon or room to peek’a’boo (for instance the yellow key fight : you can kill safely the welcoming spectres and then play snipers with the monsters in the yellow key area).
Even If I died once in the blue key fight (stucked on the ledge with the baron), I saved the secret mega-armor to the necessary-to-come big guys… And here, the big guys are not at the beginning but at the end.
Don’t get me wrong, I liked the map and this slow start was very welcomed ! But I was surprised at first glance.
So, the ending part : first arachnos//shotgunners easily dealt with rocket launcher from distance. Then the lowering mancubus. Died twice here and decided to take the mega-armor. Killed them, then.
Finally the cyberdemon.
Writing this message I realize I didn’t try to hide from the cyber in the corridor before his room, but I think the door to this corridor is closed after the mancubus appearance.
Well… at first I tried to ssg two or three shots then going plasma but… since the room is, not small but a bit cramped, I wasn’t seeing very well the targeting moments for the cyber and died a lot. So, ended doing the opposite : ssg—ed the cyber a lot then finished him with plasma.
This wasn’t a bad idea since, after that, you have to kill some barons on damaging floor which is easier with plasma.
A good map !

 

Map 23 by Oxyde UV with saves, pistol start, all kills and secrets.

By far the hardest map from the 20-25 run.
On my first tries I deeply, intensely, thought that killing the far away chaingunners while running, entering the second room, hiding on the imps alcove, killing shotgunners, taking the armor… was a good idea… Never managed to survive.
It really seems I’m not good at running wildly into combat… so… I ended hiding.
I opened the first door, quickly took the ssg and shells and went back at the entrance room.
I then peek’a’boo the pain elementals and spectres.
After that, I tried bad stuff and ended going on the right after the first door for some health and ammo, hiding from revenants then patiently, shot after shot, killed the open room archvile.
Then I run on the left, took the elevator, died first with the revenants, tried it again and killed them with chaingun (as for the shotgunners). Died once on the rocket launcher trap, not twice. Ssg-ed and rocketed the bunch of revenants+mancubus and rested a little. Wandered a bit on the map, founded the soulsphere secret then the berserk’s one (saved it for later).
Didn’t know what to do, then finally realized there was something behind the mancubus in its alcove… went up, killed the revenants remaining… then realized there was also something in the imps alcove and with that begun the ending part of the map.
You take a teleport to the blue key place, take plasma, the blue key, jumped down back to the big open area, kill the sneaky arachno on your left with plasma then rocket the other ones.
The archvile appearing on the soulsphere’s place is not difficult to kill.
In this map, the big stuff is : at the beginning, on a lower note in the middle… and also in the end. You have to come back to the place from where the first archvile annoyed you, press blue switch and then : near you, three archviles (+HK if I remember well) teleport. On first try I panicked but was very close to end them with plasma gun… didn’t work that well on other tries. So I had to jump down… and there you have a (stucked) cyber denying you a non-negligeable part of the area… and killing the archviles (and stuff they respawned) went annoying. Especially because, for some reason, the archvile appearing the closer to the blue key alcove respawned revenants which, on most of my tries, went ghost mode. So it became mandatory to kill him first and quick.
After that, a little bit of peek’a’boo once again, the other ones are dead.
I was left with the cyber, good health and armor (thanked to secret megasphere) but low ammo. I first emptied my whole magazines on him and it was not sufficient. Then I realized there was another alcove with cells near the soul sphere secret and I managed, after some deaths, to kill him (full plasma then chaingun…).
Near the cyber’s corpse are some rockets, just enough to kill the exit archvile.

So, a really difficult map that I gladly finished pistol start but with saves… and, since I felt I had some luck, I’m quite sure that single segment is way over my skills.
Even if almost everything turn around the central area, Oxyde managed to make the map a bit intricate, the texturing was really cool and the fights challenging and enjoyable for the most.
Another map that I loved to play !

Map 24 by Datacore UV with saves, pistol start, all kills and secrets.

At first I was really asking myself about this map’s slot… In the end it’s not a difficult one but, for one reason that I’ll expose soon, I first thought single segment would be easy but finally didn’t tried it.
So, here is the thing : after beating map 23 I went around the map and got some ammo (some shells, some bullets) and, because I was tired, decided to try continuous play for map 24… and I only died to a rocket from the quasi-ending cyber. So, I thought it would be piece of cake to pistol start it because I didn’t have that much ammo on my continuous run’s beginning.
But.
Sometimes just some shells and bullets really change things. You may also take into account the fact that, sometimes, I’m not the best at aiming (and I’m not helped by my close-to-death keyboard). So, this level is quite linear, you are guided by the fact that some roads are denied so the only option is the opened one, the first fights are not at all difficult, you quickly get ssg, then almost as freely plasma, then rocket launcher… on the second wing of the map you get megasphere, the following trap is a bit predictable so, first half of the map is not difficult at all ! Except that… you get all that stuff but you have some monsters to kill, and sometimes non-threatening but ammo-killers ones… and there is, from my point of view, not enough ammo. After getting the red key, coming back to the beginning area, I was welcomed by a baron and a HK with… two shells ! I guess that Datacore predicted that this could happen with non good players since it’s when you come back there that the secret located at the beginning opens and give you : Berserk.
Problem, I’m not that good at berserking Barons. It took me three or four tries but I’m quite sure that, with the stress of single segment, I would die a lot more there… that’s the reason why I didn’t try single segment.
After the red door, you get some ammo, can kill hitscanners and mancubus… then there is a cyber and you mostly can cheese it by hiding behind some stairs just at the right height and the right distance to : block cyber’s rocket while he is closely facing you and, also, avoid splash damage.
Of course, if the cyber decide to go directly through the other way, combat becomes more difficult.
After that, there is one baron to kill and some rockets to come back and finish some other barons I left alive.
All the 3hA2 maps from Datacore presented different kind of challenges, the first one was an acceleration of the difficulty curve, the second had separated arenas with though cramped fights, here it’s ammo starvation.
This one is not my favorite from him but stay quite good and enjoyable !

 

Map 25 by FranckFrag UV with saves then single segment, pistol start, all kills and secrets.

FranckFrag third encounter here… and third hot start ! But, strangely, it felt it was the easiest one of the three for the following reason : after quite some deaths there, I’ve found a sure, not at all RNG, way to survive and face the map. In two words : reliable strategy. And I didn’t on the two first ones.
SO, here is what I did (at first with saves) :
1 - quickly take shogun and shells and leave the beginning room.
2 - run quick on your right, walk the stairs, meet an arachno but, just behind her pedestal, plasma gun and 200 cells. Kill her quick, beware of the sneaky lost souls (killed also with plasma)
3 - shotgun some non threatening chaingunners while hiding behind the arachnos pedestal, take chaingun and bullets.
4 - kill with chaingun the mancubus high on your left.
5 - be patient and go up and down on the stairs to chaingun and shotgun the big bunch of revenants. At some point, to face them better and avoid HK/barons missiles, I decided to run around the place where chaingunners were using the two different staircases, one for going up, the other for going down.
6 - Don’t take yet the mega-armor.
7 - Go to the elevator, take the berserk, plasma the bunch of imps (+ take some ammo if remember well)
8 - Go back to the beginning room, snipe the imps and HK on your right and left.
9 - take the mega armor
10 - the only monsters left are five or six barons on pilars going up and down. It’s not difficult to kill them with plasma and shotgun but beware : a) there are archviles behind them and they can target you b) save some cells for these archviles.
11 - kill the archviles
12 - realize you missed two secrets
13 - find them (not difficult but the rough start don’t help you to target them quickly)
14 - Realize life would have been even easier with this supercharge and those extra-ammo
15 - Do it again single segment with part 13-14 done before.

Et voilà.

I must say that I know these maps are in the spirit of Swift Death but easier. I’m pretty sure swift death will be painful for me, but these three FranckFrag’s map from 3HA2, I love them, especially this one (but it must be because it's the only one I beat single segment !)

 

 

Next step will be quite a challenge, I think. At that point, I decided to watch again, 1 year later, the whole 3HA2 segment from the dean of Doom video… I’m pretty sure everyone already told him that you CAN get the two weapons on map 21 (Gosh, it must have been hell to beat it with only one of them).

 

 

Even if this thread begin to look like an egotist blog, If someone read this and want, as @LegendaryEevee did, to intervene, to propose some stucking and loving maps, feel free !
I tried The unholy trinity and it was a really nice one, at the same time very 90’s (the elaborated but a bit coldly decorative textures, for instance) and a bit above its time (from what I know, which is not so much). Thanks again for this !

Edited May 25 by apichatpong

[The_MártonJános]

Without anything to really elaborate on, 2022:ADO E3M5, Putrescent Dirge.

Map's a beast in size and very rarely not well telegraphed, but also is bloody beautiful (no pun intended on this one, it's filled to the brim with Hellgrowth, gore and flesh visuals.)

[apichatpong]

1 hour ago, The_MártonJános said:

Without anything to really elaborate on, 2022:ADO E3M5, Putrescent Dirge.

Map's a beast in size and very rarely not well telegraphed, but also is bloody beautiful (no pun intended on this one, it's filled to the brim with Hellgrowth, gore and flesh visuals.)

 

thanks ! I add it to my short list !

Edited May 25 by apichatpong

[apichatpong]

It turns out I had time today and had to stay home so :

I played E3M5 from 2022 a Doom odyssey evoked by @The_MártonJános, it was a great map ! I plan to talk more in details of this one, as for The unholy trinity, on following days.

 

Part of this afternoon was devoted to this :

 

 

 

As you may see, for a speedmap, it wasn’t exactly short on my side.

 

Map 26 by WH-Wilou84, pistol start, UV with saves (12 saves with four of them in the middle of a fight (the last fight to be precise), first time for this mapset), all kills and secrets.

 

I’m exhausted.
I’ll give more details later on that one, it’s a really good but really tough map.
I’ve played really safe here… at least when it was possible.
Opening fight ? Tried to slalom, focusing on chaingunners, didn’t worked.
Since I knew from a cheating run there was a teleporter somewhere with safe space, I tried to run there… Wasn’t easy but did it. And I guess this strategy, even if a bit RNG, is reproducible.
When I say safe, there are some monsters on this corridor, an archvile among others and, in the end, you trigger a bunch of HK on one side and, of course, a baron on the other to annoy you.
Here I ended doing a shameful thing : I dodged the baron, took the teleporter back and forth with, every time I was back the « safe corridor », the baron/HKs reappearing to a more respectable distance so I could shotgun them, slowly.
After that, I took the secret rocket launcher. Between you and me, it’s a silly secret. I read somewhere that, for some port’s bug avoiding, you have to put a secret in your map but here… I pity the player who try to complete this map without RL (even if you have plenty of shells (not cells, shells !)).
Then it was cleaning time on the beginning room,mostly with shotgun : remaining baddies were some barons/HKs again, perched revenants… finally, time to kill the archviles on the stairs leading to the previously evoked teleporter.

It was quite a relief to walk on this entrance quasi-safely… but a quick look to automap tells you that you only got sixty-ish monsters over 284.
I said it was a « quasi » safe walk on the entrance… Why ? Because the really beginning was then crowded with ten/twelve mancubus (and two sneaky archviles). You know what ! Felt conservative with rockets and… shotgun this wild bunch to death. Took me quite some time.
In fact, killing the two archviles after that wasn’t difficult. Neither was the following hallway and its mancubus guarding the next big room.
Next, In the four steps fight, I tried to make the two first waves (HK then revenants) infight to save ammo but it wasn’t very efficient and, once again, regarding shells, the map is generous.
I ended doing the two first steps separately with ssg (+ one or two rockets for the revenants).
The next step was the second fight, after the beginning, where I died a lot. BUT, following a semi organized/semi improvised strategy, I managed to beat this BIG bunch of revenants at least two or three times. I first rocketed them to the max for some seconds while taking refuge near the berserk location. Then, went left before revenants blocked my path, quickly passed the blocking archvile and found some room to rocket them in the big cave where revenants (and blue key, and plasma gun) were stocked.
I had to slalom a bit, circle strafe also, but it works.
Fourth step was Barons. Shotgunned once again, not difficult. Then I killed the blocking archviles (and fucking chaingunner respawners…) at the entrance of the area and, finally, took the soul sphere and, so, triggered two archviles I killed with my not-yet-used plasma (so, in fact it was a five steps fight.

Oki doki, only option then is going back to the first big cave… OH, nice ! A welcoming committee ! Just on top of the beginning stairs you’ll find plenty of HKs/Barons and also hitscanners ! And, on your left near the yellow door, an archvile just to annoy you !
First I chaingunned from distance most of the hitscanners, then I peekabooed the archvile, then rocket fiesta for hell nobles (in order to save some rockets I ended the 3/4 last ones with ssg (dead shotgunners were there to refuel me on shells).
Second time this place had to be cleaned (but not the last).

You then have to press blue switch that releases way too much pain elementals and, some cacos (plus some well placed archviles).
After 4-5 deaths, I decided to run directly near the yellow door (beginning room) and rocket them all. Ok, not exclusively rockets since… you know… lost souls… So lot of rockets from reasonable distance, I emptied my chaingun on them, then finished the last pain and souls with ssg.
After that, killing the four archviles was, once again, peekaboo oriented.

Well well well, until that moment, the map was really tough but not that much when compared to map 31 for instance… The big boy fight, here, is the last one.
I stopped to count my deaths there and I’m satisfied but not that satisfied for having ended the map.
As I said before, it was the first time I had to savescumm during a fight.
Also, the cyberdemon behavior is a bit RNG (for non-pro at least) and you should have see me, after so many tries (and after killing most of the imps/shotgunners and hell nobles), deciding to do some kind of very clumsy circle strafe to kill the big guy while not reaching the archviles areas (luckily I saved almost all my cells for that !).
Well, maybe it’s not that bad since I killed him on my first try with this « strategy »… but I’m not convinced and I felt lucky.
Rocketting the remaining revenants and archviles was easy and, if I had taken the berserk (yeah, very conservative so didn’t took it), I would have punched the poor last imp.

Don’t over-consider the 100% health above, it’s just that I did a last tour on the map and went from 30%/25% to 100%/25%.

 

Overall, once again, I’m very glad that I « beat » this map, and It’s, once again, a great one, but I might have preferred Brexin (map 19) from Wilou !

Edited May 26 by apichatpong

[apichatpong]

Cela devait arriver… but, to be honest,, I thought it would have been on map 28.
I had to lower my ambitions.
15 imps can make a difference.
There is hot start and then there is HOT start.
I’m a bit frustrated because, after the start, even if there are some differences between skill levels, the map is not very difficult.
So, I tried MULTIPLE times this start on UV.
At first, didn’t know what to do.
Then, didn’t know what to do.
After a cheating run : still didn’t know what to do.
Tried it on continuous play and had the (mixed) pleasure of doing it UV… but with difficulty… though, having just 3 rockets and 43 cells as bonus help you a lot in getting you way through this start, plus, it might be a detail for you but it means a lot to me : already having the RL make your run on the west staircase much easier since you can attack it with the ssg (for revenants and spectres close combat) and don’t have to undergo the forced switch ssg/RL then necessary second switch RL/ssg because, you know, RL in melee fight… hum. That’s discrete Oxyde’s viciousness.

As a consequence of all this, for the first time, I went on youtube and searched for UVmax playthroughs. Found four pistol start (by roofi, Timothy Brown, renji1286 and ELMLE). The three first start almost the same way, some ssg shot, jumping to get the secret soul sphere and telefraging archvile, jumping onto the other side’s damaging floor, taking rockets, back to the beginning and then : « A dieu va ». I went dying and dying there, maybe a bit because of RNG behavior, mostly due to skill issues.
Then I watch ELMLE beginning and he focused mostly on the HKs first then went directly to the RL. It felt a breath of fresh air to have the possibility of another strategy and, added to that, on my first try with this route, I was close to success. But following tries were flawed…

To say everything, I was so angry because I wanted so much to do UV pistol start for the whole wad (first levels were done continuous but some pretty hard ones I did also or exclusively pistol start (and, as already written, never overused the unintended weapons)) that I ended having my first Doom dreams about map 27.
That was yesterday evening.

Today, after work, I accepted the idea of trying HMP... and it went easy ! Some saves first, some deaths in the end (forgot about the yellow key trap and then died two times to cybers pair). There are some changes without huge consequences (for instance, 2 chaingunners in place of 2 mancubus on western staircases but you can use some rockets there for mancubus in place of ssg for chaingunners and it go almost as easily…) but, the life changing one were : 10-15 less imps (and on a smaller note, 2 less spectres) that REALLY help you to reach safely the western stairs. And now, i’ll say it, once this part done, and after all my deaths at start, the rest of the map was a « promenade de santé ». Yeah, I’ll assume that sentence.
Of course it was not always glorious, for instance my way to manage yellow key trap : went directly to the north pit, took left elevator and killed one of the three archviles, then took again and again and again the right one to kill, rocket by rocket, the two other archviles, barons etc.
For the two cybers, my strategies ended on : going back and forth from the western staircases shelter to the marble block just on the right when you face the cybers.
I then tried to a HMPmax run, and did it on third try.

Yeah, that the paradox of this map : unable to survive more than 30 seconds on UV and doing a single segment on HMP.
As I said above : 15 imps can make a difference.
That’s the doom tragedy.

 

I’ll retry the map later, hoping to do it UV… but right now, with my catastrophic way of dealing close combat with ssg, I’m more afraid than ever for map 28.

 

So :

Map 27 by Oxyde, UV continuous (with saves), HMP pistol start single segment, all kills and secrets. Didn’t found the invuln’.

 

 

Edit : I'm on map 28 UV pistol start.

Once you get that first room population is there to impress you and that, with some care in your circle strafes, you can reveal, by manageable waves, the baddies, it's not difficult. You lose some health to some chaingunners and some lost souls but if you are patient, no problem.

I was, at first, really scared but now more confident, happily and surprisingly confident.

Taking the plasma gun was sport but with some rushes it's doable.

When considered the fact that the first big fight on slime can also "quickly" be understood, that the arachnotrons corridor and its imps is easy... Wow, I was close to think that, "mille millions de mille sabords", Map 27 was going to be the most difficult.

Then, I discovered the blue key room.

It seems this nukage area looks like the first one, it seems enemies are mostly the same... but organisation is different and placement more sneaky. I died a lot there but beat it miserabily.

Tired, I decided to do the rest with iddqd.

Let me say that, at first sight, I thought one of my big problem, other than monsters count, would have been orientation, finding a route... In fact this level is quite linear.

That said, back to the real problems : the secret bfg fight is going to be hard, the next one with blue key switch seems really doable but, after that... after that... I don't know, fights after fights, it seems to become harder and crazier...

Right now, in one afternoon, I'm near 800/2400 kills on my last save without cheat. One third... I think the two last thirds will take me quite a lot of time ! And, now, I understand why this map is considered the more diffficult of the wad. The style is very different than those of the french/russian armarda, it really feel, at the beginning, as a breather (yeah) but, when quest to keys really start : Ôooooooo Boy !!!

See you in X days (or weeks).

Edited May 28 by apichatpong

[apichatpong]

Can you believe that ? I don't.

OK, this is not OKUPLOK, but my 6-months-ago-me is glad.

 

 

And map 29 is done (without killing all monsters... map is stingy regarding ammo), also, map 30 done, great opening then I cheated because I don't like IoS.

So, 3 heures d'agonie 2 is done, without some "minor" details (map 27 being UV continous or just HMP pistol start, map 29 without some kills, I may try some IoS sometimes but not this one, the lava pit is easily sadistic and annoying), so, next time will be reviews of 28-29-30 and overall feelings.

Edited May 29 by apichatpong

[apichatpong]

Map 28 by Darkwave0000, UV, pistol start, with saves,, all kills and secrets.

So… I won’t get into much details on my run since, as already said, the map is quite linear. « En gros » :

 

1 - circling around the first wave of monsters, focusing on pain elementals and making all the guys infight.
Let say that I played too safely this first round, going around and around way too much time because of fear… I have to admit it.
I killed this first wave on first try… well, not really… first try of this strategy to be precise. It took me some time to find it. First runs were mostly panic run&gun, trying to find the right way.
2 - did better on the second wave, mostly with the same strategy.
3 - after discovering these strategies, my first death (of many) came with the plasma gun fight but, not because of archviles, no, because of the snipping arachnos from the corridor leading to secret BFG. After some tries, I decided to first kill the arachnos and it was easy : you can trigger almost all the imps and mancubus then go back, let the arachnos kill everyone, then, « calmly » chaingun the spiders (calmly between « . » because some chaingunners show themselves from the RL/nuckage arena).
4 - Then, took me two-three tries to get the plasma.
5 - After that, I went to get the RL, got it without much difficulties because, and it’s one constant from this map, even if you always get archviles, cybers and pain elementals on arenas, even if archviles may be difficult to kill because they have a tendency to stay in the middle of monsters melee, the infighting help a lot, the cybers help a lot, and you have : huge room to travel and lot of ammo !
That being said, the arenas are more and more difficult.
6 - Blue key arena, more or less the same strategy but the baddies appearing from the sides made the victory more difficult. My first success was poor and I did better on following tries.
7 - the BFG secret : I really feared this « two cybers, two archviles, imps in cramped place » fight from my cheating run… but it wasn’t so difficult. It doesn’t mean I didn’t die, but beat it quite quickly  and retried it with success. Of course, it was a bit messy, a mix of slalom and rush, but it worked.
8 - Then, direction : red key area. First, the antechamber fight… maybe the easiest from the map. Got it on first try and the archvile wasn’t very threatening.
9 - non threatening archvile, something you can’t say for the ones in the red key arena. Of course they have the politeness of being stuck but, they are numerous and they block your way in an arena less ample than the other ones. Even though, it didn’t took me 100 tries to beat the fight.
10 - post red key door fight : second most difficult one. In fact, to be honest, most difficult one. It’s easily here that I died the most because of multiple running archviles with the bad habit to stay surrounded by huge amount of HKs. I also did it again and again because, in the end, regarding my reloads, it was not about being killed but to kill everyone without receiving a single missile because I wasn’t really high on health/armor and planned to be conservative with the soul sphere/mega armor/ megasphere of the big boy fight.
11 - You then have to do a small fight to lower bfg/megasphere on the big boy fight central area, at first I tried to BFG the revenants and quickly run to avoid archviles zapping and to kill arachnos and mancubus, always died with revenants missiles. Then I realized the blocking archviles weren’t, in fact, blocking anything so, after pressing the switch, I ran directly in their direction, passed them and hide in the big room to kill the monsters safely.
12 - Big boy fight : I first went on the huge room next to the exit to kill, as much as possible, some baddies, went bad on three tries… then I decided to went back to the post red door area, it was chaotic, it was BFG spamming, it was messy but it ended well ! And even better than I thought because, this fight is composed of three huge areas, quite identical, all with spiderdemon guarding soulsphere, all with flying bastards, all with Cyberdemons and revenants… while fighting in the red door area and while monsters were beginning to all became corpses there, I was sure that a still big lot of monsters were waiting for me on other rooms (infighting or doing something else)… in fact, almost all of them went to see me in the red door wing and, after cleaning it, only some lost souls were remaining !
So, before the ending fight, I was left with one soulsphere near a spiderdemon corpse, another one just before last arena, and an armor.
13 - last fight : died once because of archviles before deciding to run directly near the switch opening the exit and safely bfg the whole bunch of them. Finished the cyber with ssg and bye bye baby !

 

This map is not my favorite from the wad but it’s an excellent one.

I totally understand why it’s considered the most difficult for uvmaxers, but when, as TimeofDeath said, you are a « filthy casual using save/load » like me (no hard feeling, I like trve gatekeepers), no : map 27, 26 and, even, 19 are more difficult.
Once again, you always have lot of rooms to move, lot of ammo and soul spheres/mega armors + one megasphere.
I’m pretty sure this map would have been a great standalone but I really liked it to be in this specific megawad, very different from other maps still non-secret one.
The midi is moody, atmospheric, threatening and melancholic, the architecture is grandiose (still vanilla), the whole thing is chaos and… I like infighting in big fights (I’m also a bit lazy).

I guess this map is more a slaughter map for beginners (once again, I don’t consider single segmenting) than a really hardcore one but I’m very happy that I beat it !!!

 

 

Map 29 by JCDorne, UV, pistol start, with saves, all secrets :
As already said, this map first feels like a very welcome breather after 26-27-28 but it’s a really ammo-tight one and after using way to much ammo on the baron between crushers, I didn’t have enough bullets/shells/rockets to kill the yellow key archviles/respawned revenants and the exit archvile. So, it was the first map I didn’t ended with all kills.
It’s a tiny threatening hellish map, with a rightly chosen slot, I liked it and it was, maybe, the best one from JCD in this wad !

 

Map 30 by JCD, cheat.
The way to reach the IoS is top notch, bravo, but I don’t like IoS (especially when I can’t easily see where I have to shoot my rockets).

Next : "Bilan du wad".
Then I non-randomly decided to play 180 minutes pour vivre.
Beat map 1 to 8 yesterday.
Starts great ! More details to come !

Edited May 31 by apichatpong

[LegendaryEevee]

@apichatpong I feel many people had the wrong initial impression of me when they heard I've been playing since 94 and uploading full runs on my channel; many got the impression I was a Speed Runner.  However that's not what I enjoy doing with the game.  Instead I love to explore and walk people through levels so that once they see the video they can then go themselves and beat it on nightmare difficulty.  Or get a better speed.  It's almost like DooM ASMR. 

 

You've heard me mention it but now I finally have a good opportunity to show off @Dragonfly amazing work with my favorite DooM WAD made to this date Eviternity.  With my favorite map to this date Map19 - Dehydration.  As I mentioned earlier this is a map I could get lost in for hours.  I'll show you only part of it below with enemies taken out.  Now imagine by the end of this:

1. You're not even halfway through the level (haven't even found all secrets). 
2. Add to this you have little ammo to work with and over 500 monsters placed in realistic believable places (not all of them are just in a pit in the middle). 
3. Take note of all of the Lighting / Lifts / Textures / Laser Grid System / Believable Crushers / Moving Platforms / Automatic Doors / Shootable Switches that actually make sense. 
4. Again you're not even half way through by the end of this and it's only a guided look at what is normally a constantly struggle for survival through this massive complex. 

 

This is why I always use this as a measuring stick of a true Exploration Map with plenty of things to see and do.  This is the standard I would like to see more mappers work to top.

 

 

Edited June 6 by LegendaryEevee

[apichatpong]

11 minutes ago, LegendaryEevee said:

@apichatpong I feel many people had the wrong initial impression of me when they heard I've been playing since 94 and uploading full runs on my channel; many got the impression I was a Speed Runner.  However that's not what I enjoy doing with the game.  Instead I love to explore and walk people through levels so that once they see the video they can then go themselves and beat it on nightmare difficulty.  Or get a better speed.  It's almost like DooM ASMR. 

 

You've heard me mention it but now I finally have a good opportunity to show off @Dragonfly amazing work with my favorite DooM WAD made to this date Eviternity.  With my favorite map to this date Map19 - Dehydration.  As I mentioned earlier this is a map I could get lost in for hours.  I'll show you only part of it below with enemies taken out.  Now imagine by the end of this:

1. You're not even halfway through the level (haven't even found all secrets). 
2. Add to this you have little ammo to work with and over 500 monsters placed in realistic believable places (not all of them are just in a pit in the middle). 
3. Take note of all of the Lighting / Lifts / Textures / Laser Grid System / Believable Crushers / Moving Platforms / Automatic Doors / Shootable Switches that actually make sense. 
4. Again you're not even half way through by the end of this and it's only a guided look at what is normally a constantly struggle for survival through this massive complex. 

 

 

Hey ! first : with all due respect to Dragonfly, Dehydration was made by StormCatcher.77 ;)

 

Second : don't overthink about people first impression.

 

Finally : I totally agree with you on the greatness of this map and your four points are... on point !

On eviternity, Map 24 and 32 are also masterpieces but, the whole wad is a nice place to lose youurself !

[vanilla_d00m]

All maps in FINAL DOOM, I can't to this day remember any map in that game like I do in the first two games, but I finished them without having to throw my keyboard around.