Doom 64 - An Overrated Masterpiece Of Coal

[GermanPeter]

 

It's always bothered me how many people praised Doom 64, even calling it the best of the classic Doom titles. Every time I heard that, I could only think to myself: "Really? Have we play the same game?"

So I decided to take a nuanced look at the game and see if it still holds up today, or if there's not some blemishes that are often overlooked.

Would love to hear what all the Doom 64 fans think of my review, genuinely curious!

[Gifty]

I've always thought of Doom64 as hugely underrated, and practically forgotten until recently. Obviously in our bubble of Doom obsessives it has a lot of players, but in the wider world of gamers and more casual Doom fans I don't think it has much cache at all. The official PC port has shifted that a little, but it's still a little-known title.

 

As far as my personal opinion, I think it's really awesome for about 12 maps and then it starts to get a little monotonous. But I also have that problem with Doom II, soooooo :P

Edited January 22 by Gifty

[DankMetal]

(Writing this before watching the video)

Doom 64 was the first doom game inplayed as a kid, and even them, i have to admit that the second third of the game is very repetitive.

Sure, the levels aren't bad by any means, but midway didn't take any risks and map 13 thru 16 doesn't offer anything new.

Say what you want about Doom 2, but having three (or four if you count Shawn) guys with distinctive styles, and one of them being a crazy lovecraft fan, gave it a lot of variety than just "a hell fortress after a hell fortress".

 

The last third recovers a lot of force, The introduction to the Cyberdemon in map 17 is fantastic, The Spiral and Breakdown are two of my favorite levels, and In The Void is loved by a lot of people, even for those who aren't big fans of Doom 64.

And you know what? I don't care if Doom 64 is considered "overrated", it was left in the dark for so long, and it deserves to have a spot alongside the classics.

[Andromeda]

I haven't played it but I don't think I'm missing much judging from what I've seen of it.

[OpenRift]

I feel like the controls issue is kind of an issue of controllers of the era more than it is of the game itself. Twin-stick FPS controls were basically non-existent, so this really was the best you could do at the time. That being said, there are some ways to make it more playable on an N64 controller. You can bind your moving and strafing to the D-pad and L for running and use your left hand, while your right hand is on the analogue stick for turning and trigger for shooting. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Doom 64 is one of the few N64 games where you can really do this sort of configuration, alongside Goldeneye and Perfect Dark. This makes the game a lot more playable and comparable to a more modern control scheme. As for its difficulty, I feel like it largely comes down to how familiar you are with a controller versus a keyboard and mouse. I'm sure that if I tried playing it with a controller I wouldn't fair as well as I would with a keyboard and mouse, but again it all comes down to your experience with the control scheme.

 

I feel like the level progression, while sometimes cryptic (that one yellow key puzzle you mentioned sucks), is a natural successor to the puzzles and secrets of the original games. It's all about pattern recognition and sometimes trial and error, which may not scale well on consoles that only let you put saves at the beginning of the level, which seems like it may be the source of the issue. I think it actually does what Hexen 1 tries to do but in a much more concise and intuitive manner. Sure, the more muted textures can make it harder to tell apart, but the patterns are there if you're paying attention. Maybe I'm just saying this as someone who's poured countless hours into the first two games and their bottomless custom levels, but I kind of see Doom 64's level design as doing something similar to what the Plutonia Experiment was trying to do: upping the difficulty for those who'd already played and beat Doom 1 and 2 and in the case of Doom 64, players that already have that sixth sense for level design detail. Perhaps this is another contributing factor to why Doom 64 wasn't as popular as other console FPSs for the longest time? I dunno.

[GermanPeter]

2 minutes ago, OpenRift said:

I feel like the controls issue is kind of an issue of controllers of the era more than it is of the game itself. Twin-stick FPS controls were basically non-existent, so this really was the best you could do at the time. That being said, there are some ways to make it more playable on an N64 controller. You can bind your moving and strafing to the D-pad and L for running and use your left hand, while your right hand is on the analogue stick for turning and trigger for shooting. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Doom 64 is one of the few N64 games where you can really do this sort of configuration, alongside Goldeneye and Perfect Dark. This makes the game a lot more playable and comparable to a more modern control scheme. As for its difficulty, I feel like it largely comes down to how familiar you are with a controller versus a keyboard and mouse. I'm sure that if I tried playing it with a controller I wouldn't fair as well as I would with a keyboard and mouse, but again it all comes down to your experience with the control scheme.

 

I feel like the level progression, while sometimes cryptic (that one yellow key puzzle you mentioned sucks), is a natural successor to the puzzles and secrets of the original games. It's all about pattern recognition and sometimes trial and error, which may not scale well on consoles that only let you put saves at the beginning of the level, which seems like it may be the source of the issue. I think it actually does what Hexen 1 tries to do but in a much more concise and intuitive manner. Sure, the more muted textures can make it harder to tell apart, but the patterns are there if you're paying attention. Maybe I'm just saying this as someone who's poured countless hours into the first two games and their bottomless custom levels, but I kind of see Doom 64's level design as doing something similar to what the Plutonia Experiment was trying to do: upping the difficulty for those who'd already played and beat Doom 1 and 2 and in the case of Doom 64, players that already have that sixth sense for level design detail. Perhaps this is another contributing factor to why Doom 64 wasn't as popular as other console FPSs for the longest time? I dunno.

Yeah, people have pointed out that you can remap controls, but they didn't mention that the game controls REALLY slowly on an N64. Like, unbearably slowly. It's better, sure, but not much better than the standard options. It doesn't fix any underlying issues, just makes it a teensy-weensy bit easier to play.

 

As for the puzzles, I get they're a logical evolution, they just don't work. Having to run all over the map because you flipped a switch and you wanna find out what it opened isn't a puzzle, it's busywork. The only real puzzles were the ones I showed in the video, to be honest. The rest was just "go here, but you don't know where 'here' is." And I mean, I played Hexen 1 (until the 4th world), and while that game was cryptic, at least it was honest about it. Doom 64 feels like it wants to both be a great shooter and a cryptic game like Hexen, which isn't possible. You gotta pick one over the other.

[OpenRift]

Just now, GermanPeter said:

Yeah, people have pointed out that you can remap controls, but they didn't mention that the game controls REALLY slowly on an N64. Like, unbearably slowly. It's better, sure, but not much better than the standard options. It doesn't fix any underlying issues, just makes it a teensy-weensy bit easier to play.

Like, do you mean the turning speed? Or like the moving speed?

 

2 minutes ago, GermanPeter said:

As for the puzzles, I get they're a logical evolution, they just don't work. Having to run all over the map because you flipped a switch and you wanna find out what it opened isn't a puzzle, it's busywork. The only real puzzles were the ones I showed in the video, to be honest. The rest was just "go here, but you don't know where 'here' is." And I mean, I played Hexen 1 (until the 4th world), and while that game was cryptic, at least it was honest about it. Doom 64 feels like it wants to both be a great shooter and a cryptic game like Hexen, which isn't possible. You gotta pick one over the other.

I suppose? I feel like while there were some instances of that in certain levels, I think it just either wasn't frequent enough to bother me or just I just didn't notice. I should replay Doom 64 again at some point just to see. So I'll agree to disagree on that.

[Edward850]

Gee thanks I guess. :/

[Noiser]

The only thing I don't like about Doom 64 is how it lacks two of the best monsters of the game (Revenant and Arch-Vile). I understand it's due to the limitations, but damn... it hurts!

[Murdoch]

I have expressed my distaste for Doom 64 many times. I can certainly understand people having an affection for it if it was their first childhood experience with the series. I have never been able to get into playing FPS games with a controller. I played Wolfenstein 3D not long after release, and so FPS with a controller has always struck me as completely inferior. Why take the time to learn a different control system when I already have a perfectly good one? So Doom 64 had that handicap for me from day one and I just never got into it as a consequence. Years later when the first PC remakes started coming out I tried it again, and while I appreciated the improved pace and control mouse and keyboard inevitably brought to the table, I found myself getting frustrated with the annoying obtuse level design around the midway point, and gave up. I tried to tough it out again a few years ago, got stuck at the same point (I think around map14), had to look up a walkthrough, then got fed up with the next map too due to what was a very odd progression moment that also created a moment where I had no choice but to take damage which killed me.

 

The bit that got me stuck on the second last level was there was a spot where a switch was hidden behind some spike traps, and there was no visible clue you had to go behind there to progress. The traps basically said "stay the hell out of here" so I did. Then at one point there was a switch that opened a barrier that revealed another switch immediately. I agree with @GermanPeter; that's not a puzzle. That's busywork, wasting my time. I hate that with a passion.

There are some wonderfully atmospheric moments in the game, but I just cannot force myself to stomach it's more dickish tendencies. I concede had I been more inquisitive I might have found that switch on my own but really everything from somewhat indistinct texturing to the traps in the way basically communicated to me "there's nothing here but stabby death". Between having to check the walkthrough to find that and the really obscure, difficult to figure out sequence in the first part of the next level that got me killed, it was a one-two punch of "fuck this shit, I'm out".

 

43 minutes ago, OpenRift said:

I feel like the level progression, while sometimes cryptic (that one yellow key puzzle you mentioned sucks), is a natural successor to the puzzles and secrets of the original games.

 

I personally do not recall anything I would fairly call a puzzle in the original Doom games that could impede progression if not solved. Yes, some of the secrets required things like listening for distant door opening sounds and what have you, but they didn't stop you from progressing if you missed them. Even then, I would argue such instances are not really puzzles either.

 

11 minutes ago, Edward850 said:

Gee thanks I guess. :/

Don't take it personally. Just because I and some others do not like that game, doesn't mean we don't respect that some others do enjoy it. There are many, many good aspects to the game. People are free to like what they like, and shouldn't take someone disagreeing as a slight against them.

Except people who like mumble rap. Fuck them.

Just kidding. Possibly. Maybe.

Edited January 22 by Murdoch

[LadyMistDragon]

I still need to check the video out....but I'm getting the impression much of the complaints amount to crappy controls and the occasional and admittedly inexcusable puzzle. The latter doesn't take up all that much of the game, to be quite honest, and of course, playing on keyboard and mouse kind of eliminated any irritation in the former.

 

I think that otherwise, it's not really that obtuse, but perhaps navigation could be helped by more distinguished texturing in certain locations. It's not really an issue with layout as much as signposting because the actual level design is very strong.

 

 

Edited January 22 by LadyMistDragon

[GermanPeter]

28 minutes ago, OpenRift said:

Like, do you mean the turning speed? Or like the moving speed?

 

I suppose? I feel like while there were some instances of that in certain levels, I think it just either wasn't frequent enough to bother me or just I just didn't notice. I should replay Doom 64 again at some point just to see. So I'll agree to disagree on that.

Turning speed. It's similar to other FPS games on console like Doom on PS1, but not brilliant.

 

There were a couple puzzles like that, some minor, some major. I think a big difference was that I was primed on Doom games and expected this kind of malarkey, but for someone whose first game might be Doom 64... it's too much.

[GermanPeter]

19 minutes ago, Edward850 said:

Gee thanks I guess. :/

I'd recommend watching the video. The Nightdive port is actually incredible and fixes many of the issues I had (controls, saving, etc), so if anything, it made the game actually playable! I mean, I played it on N64 and legit had to stop on the second level because it was unbearable.

 

The other issues just can't be fixed by the port, and unless you were part of the original dev team, no blame goes to you. Even then, the game is pretty good, it's just not perfect. It's more like Doom 2 than 1 in terms of frustrating and confusing progression.

[GermanPeter]

14 minutes ago, Noiser said:

The only thing I don't like about Doom 64 is how it lacks two of the best monsters of the game (Revenant and Arch-Vile). I understand it's due to the limitations, but damn... it hurts!

I can't imagine a fight against a monster that can shoot heat-seeking projectiles or one that can almost instakill you from halfway across the map going well on the N64. I am glad they're not here, honestly.

[GermanPeter]

3 minutes ago, LadyMistDragon said:

I still need to check the video out....but I'm getting the impression much of the complaints amount to crappy controls and the occasional and admittedly inexcusable puzzle. The latter doesn't take up all that much of the game, to be quite honest, and of course, playing on keyboard and mouse kind of eliminated any irritation in that regard.

 

I think that otherwise, it's not really that obtuse, but perhaps navigation could be helped by more distinguished texturing in certain locations. It's not really an issue with layout as much as signposting because the actual level design is very strong.

The controls were only some of my problems, the others had more to do with the cryptic progression, which almost all levels are guilty of. Some more than others, but saying it doesn't take up much of the game isn't true. Doom 2 was incredibly straightforward in that regard compared to 64.

And yeah, the gameplay is incredible, I've had so much fun shooting demons. It's just the time inbetween fights that's lacking.

[OpenRift]

2 minutes ago, GermanPeter said:

Turning speed. It's similar to other FPS games on console like Doom on PS1, but not brilliant.

If you're turning with the analog stick, you can adjust the sensitivity in the settings to whatever best fits your needs. It's never going to be as precise or versatile as a mouse, but with some tuning I'd argue that you can get it to a reasonably playable state.

[Murdoch]

5 minutes ago, GermanPeter said:

I can't imagine a fight against a monster that can shoot heat-seeking projectiles or one that can almost instakill you from halfway across the map going well on the N64. I am glad they're not here, honestly.

 

Yes, the idea of having to take on those guys with an N64 controller for me conjures up images of said controllers being used to put dents in my wall.

[GermanPeter]

11 minutes ago, OpenRift said:

If you're turning with the analog stick, you can adjust the sensitivity in the settings to whatever best fits your needs. It's never going to be as precise or versatile as a mouse, but with some tuning I'd argue that you can get it to a reasonably playable state.

Yeah, but the issue is that "reasonably playable state" isn't enough for the kind of gameplay Doom 64 demands. Like I said in the video, I love Wolfenstein 3D on the Jaguar, where there is NO way to circlestrafe. But the game is small enough that it works, which also goes for Doom on Jaguar. But 64... that's something else entirely.

 

I wouldn't even have complained about the controls if they didn't impact the game so poorly. I mean, you shouldn't expect players to experiment to figure out the best possible (or least worst) way to control the game. You wanna design the game in such a way that ANYONE can play it comfortably.

 

P.S: sorry mods for spamming, I forgot you could multiquote. I'm more used to the Reddit side of things.

[DNSKILL5]

I always felt Doom 64 was trying to sort of bridge Doom and Quake, hence the darker tone, shotguns working more like they do in Quake, etc. 

[Rudolph]

1 hour ago, Noiser said:

The only thing I don't like about Doom 64 is how it lacks two of the best monsters of the game (Revenant and Arch-Vile). I understand it's due to the limitations, but damn... it hurts!

Luckily for us, it has since been rectified by DrPypsy!

Edited January 22 by Rudolph

[Murdoch]

13 minutes ago, DNSKILL5 said:

I always felt Doom 64 was trying to sort of bridge Doom and Quake, hence the darker tone, shotguns working more like they do in Quake, etc. 

 

I often thought the same.

[BUYXRAYS]

I always agreed with this. I would hear these things, get bored on map 3, delete it, hear about it, redownload it. And it was just a loop. I dont like it at all

[Amaruψ]

Just no.

[GermanPeter]

19 minutes ago, Rudolph said:

Luckily for us, it has since been rectified by DrPypsy!

Damn, what CAN'T they do??? At this rate, we'll be getting an official classic Doom episode made by them!

[Individualised]

<edit - misinformation>

Edited January 22 by Individualised

[Noiser]

1 hour ago, Rudolph said:

Luckily for us, it has since been rectified by DrPypsy!

I'm aware, DrPyspy is a magician. It's unbelievable how authentic it looks!

Edited January 22 by Noiser

[DoomGuy999]

The intro is amazing but the atmosphere and the music is just not good.

[Rudolph]

43 minutes ago, Noiser said:

I'm aware, DrPyspy is a magician. It's unbelievable how authentic it looks!

Well, you said their absence hurts, so it is only natural that DrPyspy would eventually come up with a remedy! :P

Edited January 23 by Rudolph

[HeadshotTAS]

I'm one of those people that played the original game on the N64 as a kid. As a 5 year old, you don't really have the concepts of game design or level progression that you have as an adult. I didn't beat the game at such a young age (I would do that a few years later) but even thinking about the game now I can still vividly recall the feelings of the levels fully immersing me in its world. More than anything else, Doom 64 felt less like a game to me and more of a mystery that I desperately wanted to solve. Finding my first secret in the game made me feel like I'm uncovering that mystery. So when it comes to the more contentious parts of the game's design (such as the sometimes cryptic level progression or even the admittedly very cheap death traps) I actually didn't mind that at all. I didn't interpret these things as being bad game design, I interpreted them as being just more layers in the mysterious artifact that is Doom 64. I was way too enthralled with the game's presentation, atmosphere and visuals, to the point where I didn't even really care about dying to a death trap right before the exit, because the mystery that it presented to me all those years ago was too gripping for me to let go of.

The criticisms presented in the video are valid, and I get why the game isn't to everybody's tastes, even within the Doom community. But personally, Doom 64 was one of the most important games I played as a kid and I still cherish it for its amazing atmosphere to this day. I can't overstate how powerful that feeling of the game itself being a complete mystery was to me. There was just something about it that begged for me to look further and further so I can discover as many secrets as I can. In hindsight, I totally get why things like the death traps in Blood Keep or Dark Citadel would piss people off that are playing the game for the first time now, but back then I had little reason to care. My mind wasn't set on reaching the end of the level, it was on immersing myself in the world and uncovering as many secrets as I could. It's an experience that was incredibly powerful for me and one that I owe a lot to, so I'm willing to forgive the game's shortcomings. I still think it is a fantastic game in spite of its flaws, and with the remaster bringing the game to a new audience and allowing for custom mods, there is an unbelievable amount of potential to bring new life to the game, much like how custom mods have kept the previous 2 Doom games alive for all of this time. Doom 64 isn't flawless, but without it I doubt I'd have gotten seriously invested in the Doom community in the first place and enjoying these amazing games for as long as I have.

Edited January 23 by HeadshotTAS
Confused Blood Keep with Burnt Offerings for some reason

[N00BA]

4 hours ago, Noiser said:

The only thing I don't like about Doom 64 is how it lacks two of the best monsters of the game (Revenant and Arch-Vile). I understand it's due to the limitations, but damn... it hurts!

Doom 64 is already known for having really dickish traps, so imagine the amount of pain they couldve gave us if they left in the arch vile and the revenant...