Doom 64 - An Overrated Masterpiece Of Coal

[OniriA]

Ich will einen Doom Vier und Sextig!

 

Scheisse nogmal!

Edited January 23 by OniriA

[jazzmaster9]

Ohh geez i guess  have to list down things i hate about everything i consume.

Cant 100% like anything anymore without looking like a fanboy.

Edited January 24 by jazzmaster9

[Amaruψ]

Jesus Christ Jazzmaster, I know how it feels but cool down a bit O_o

[LadyMistDragon]

1 hour ago, GermanPeter said:

 

My issue is that the cutscenes constantly mention how much Doomguy is enjoying the carnage. Not the manual, not an interpretation by the player, but something directly stated within the game itself. So if he's not afraid but ready to throw hands, then why does the music convey the opposite? Either way, that was a really small nitpick and I love the atmosphere of the game. Without the ambience, it wouldn't have been as memorable.

Dat dank-ass 90s edge. Look, all of us who grew up then cringe at observing what we were like and finding games like Hatred silly as a result, but in addition to "XTREME marketing", the whole 'bad-ass vibe' was important in a way that can't really be articulated. So even if Doom 64 had different design goals, they at least wanted to make it sound like what people who liked shooters were expecting.

[D4NUK1]

People on this thread should watch at least the first 2 minutes of the video.

It's feel like satire for me, dunno if is because i really don't watch a lot of clickbait videos or because i really understand the point of view of the video.

Anyways people need to see the other title. 



To the major points of the negatives, and remember my time playing on a N64 Emulator with a clone PSX Gamepad, i understand some points like.
 

- The progresion on certain stuff to movement (The platafoming puzzle on Level 5 or 6 comes to mind. I don't mind the timed secrets because i feel it's something more for a replay when you have a good learning on the controllers.

-Some Keys puzzles, like "that" yellow key took me like 15 mins on my first time, and if i do it faster now, it's because that level it's that iconic on that stuff that i'll not forget it. BUT was not on the same level to never play again.

Dying mid level i don't have a problem with it, only in some levels where pistol starting with a N64 would be a hellaofalot hard.

But something to also praise it's how the newer PC version made modding a great revival and how many modders made they own maps with they own fixes and still fitting with the DOOM 64 Experience (narrow places to combat, dark ambient audio, good use of the ligthing to make a audiovisual mood on the game, and even fix the balance with the Unmakyer, like the newer expantion being more like a way to progress to the final level instead of being a just permanent power up.

EDIT: Also as a kid i was pissed that some monters like Reverant and the Spider Mastermind, don't care about chaingunner at the time, but now that i know the reasons that was cut i don't really mind, because in the end, it's a really good game. 



But not masterpiece, that's goes to DOOM II to me...(And Eternal)

Edited January 24 by D4NUK1

[Duskztar]

I may be biased as a huge Doom 64 fan, it's my favorite entry, but I love the cryptic progression. I enjoy hunting down all the secrets in a level so naturally I really liked the demon key puzzles, even if they were extremely cryptic it just made figuring them out all the more satisfying. Of course, I know plenty of Doom fans prefer the running and gunning and don't like switch hunts or puzzles, it's totally fair that it doesn't click with everybody. Though it's funny you compared it to Hexen, I think Hexen actually takes the cryptic switch hunt stuff to an extreme that Doom 64 doesn't even come close to, at least with Doom 64 you can be sure any switch you press will actually do something in the level you're currently in.

[GermanPeter]

8 hours ago, Duskztar said:

I may be biased as a huge Doom 64 fan, it's my favorite entry, but I love the cryptic progression. I enjoy hunting down all the secrets in a level so naturally I really liked the demon key puzzles, even if they were extremely cryptic it just made figuring them out all the more satisfying. Of course, I know plenty of Doom fans prefer the running and gunning and don't like switch hunts or puzzles, it's totally fair that it doesn't click with everybody. Though it's funny you compared it to Hexen, I think Hexen actually takes the cryptic switch hunt stuff to an extreme that Doom 64 doesn't even come close to, at least with Doom 64 you can be sure any switch you press will actually do something in the level you're currently in.

I think I'd have enjoyed the cryptic nature if the game doubled down on it, like Hexen. In Hexen, even getting past the first stage is a huge puzzle. But Doom 64 wants to both have intense combat AND obscure progression, neither of which work well together. It's hard to get invested in puzzles when I wanna have a fun shootout, and it's hard to concentrate on progression when I get interrupted by enemy encounters constantly.

If they had combined the two better, maybe even adding puzzle elements like Hexen did instead of relying on switches so much, I'd have appreciated it more. Or, you know, if the puzzles didn't outright lie to you. They could have also made enemies spawn in to lead you towards the door that you just opened. They do that sometimes, but not often enough to avoid having the player run around aimlessly.

 

9 hours ago, baja blast rd. said:

 

Good and bad is very subjective, and it's possible that many reviewers simply were not bothered by what you thought of as bad. After all there's no such thing as "objective criticism."

That's a good point, I hadn't considered that. After all, 99% of all players had never even touched the original N64 port.
Still don't understand how some people can't see the obtuse progression as a negative, but then make fun of Downtown having a big arrow. "If you need an arrow telling you where to go, the level is not well-designed", sure, but then at least the level DOES tell you where to go. Doom 64 leaves you in the dark, sometimes literally.
I just feel like people are biased towards Doom 64 because it's a game that was never really on their radar and completely surprised them positively, while the other Doom games were always there and up for criticism. So it was easier to focus on the positive aspects of the former than not already being used to them like with the latter.

[Agent Strange]

I think it's pretty cool. The maps get a little too samey towards the end, but I really like everything else. It's Doom but with a spookier twist.

[styd051]

you know, when you have the DOOM 64 source code, you can do whatever you want with the game, like add new custom monsters, new custom weapons, and much more.

 

I present to you some work that I carried out by modifying the source code of DOOM 64  

 

Complex DOOM64 my favorite game mode that I created in the official game

 

missing reload animation from DOOM 2 that I restored in DOOM 64

 

new weapon the Nailgun!

 

new weapons Quadshotgun and Hexashotgun!

 

two new custom difficulties that I added to the game Doomslayer and Ultra Nightmare!

 

and I did much more with the official game engine when you have the source code of the game you can do what you want you just need to have programming knowledge.

Edited January 24 by styd051

[GermanPeter]

19 minutes ago, styd051 said:

you know, when you have the DOOM 64 source code, you can do whatever you want with the game, like add new custom monsters, new custom weapons, and much more.

 

I present to you some work that I carried out by modifying the source code of DOOM 64  

 

Complex DOOM64 my favorite game mode that I created in the official game

 

missing reload animation from DOOM 2 that I restored in DOOM 64

 

new weapon the Nailgun!

 

new weapons Quadshotgun and Hexashotgun!

 

two new custom difficulties that I added to the game Doomslayer and Ultra Nightmare!

 

and again I did much more with the official game engine when you have the source code of the game you can do what you want you just need to have programming knowledge.

Pretty impressive. The new weapons really make the game feel even more like Quake.

[Duskztar]

8 hours ago, GermanPeter said:

I think I'd have enjoyed the cryptic nature if the game doubled down on it, like Hexen. In Hexen, even getting past the first stage is a huge puzzle. But Doom 64 wants to both have intense combat AND obscure progression, neither of which work well together. It's hard to get invested in puzzles when I wanna have a fun shootout, and it's hard to concentrate on progression when I get interrupted by enemy encounters constantly.

If they had combined the two better, maybe even adding puzzle elements like Hexen did instead of relying on switches so much, I'd have appreciated it more. Or, you know, if the puzzles didn't outright lie to you. They could have also made enemies spawn in to lead you towards the door that you just opened. They do that sometimes, but not often enough to avoid having the player run around aimlessly.

I'd argue puzzles and combat work very well together, Doom 64's rise in popularity with the rerelease proves that the game can truly shine when given a chance in the spotlight, it's just not for everyone. Plus Hexen does have combat too, so it's strange to criticize Doom 64 for doing the same thing. Hell, at least with Doom 64 you can completely clear a level's enemies and focus on the puzzles and secret hunting afterward like you'd prefer, but in Hexen there's a chance of more enemies spawning every 4 minutes forever, meaning you can never fully concentrate on puzzle solving in that game, ironically enough.

As for the puzzle that "lies" to you, the wall just outside with an unusual texture giving off light is the same texture of the pillar the key is on, I dunno about you but at some point you'll leave the room, see that wall and try pressing it, assuming you never open the automap beforehand and see that the wall is a switch. It got me as a kid, I'm sure it got everybody. Also, many of the example switches you give that open some unknown door/bars have monitors right next to them that show exactly what they opened and where.

[GermanPeter]

10 minutes ago, Duskztar said:

I'd argue puzzles and combat work very well together, Doom 64's rise in popularity with the rerelease proves that the game can truly shine when given a chance in the spotlight, it's just not for everyone. Plus Hexen does have combat too, so it's strange to criticize Doom 64 for doing the same thing. Hell, at least with Doom 64 you can completely clear a level's enemies and focus on the puzzles and secret hunting afterward like you'd prefer, but in Hexen there's a chance of more enemies spawning every 4 minutes forever, meaning you can never fully concentrate on puzzle solving in that game, ironically enough.

As for the puzzle that "lies" to you, the wall just outside with an unusual texture giving off light is the same texture of the pillar the key is on, I dunno about you but at some point you'll leave the room, see that wall and try pressing it, assuming you never open the automap beforehand and see that the wall is a switch. It got me as a kid, I'm sure it got everybody. Also, many of the example switches you give that open some unknown door/bars have monitors right next to them that show exactly what they opened and where.

I don't remember monsters spawning in to interrupt my puzzles in Hexen, or at all really? Also, I know that game has combat too, but most of the game really is just running back and forth, trying to figure out where to go. And that's fine! I love that! That's like Zelda 1! But when I play Doom 64, I'm there for the great combat, not to wander aimlessly.

 

The puzzle is poorly designed because it LOOKS like everything you need is contained in the room, but it's not. It's as if I put a jigsaw puzzle on the table and told you to put it together, but eventually you realize that you're missing half the pieces, since they're in my pockets. Using an unmarked texture on a wall isn't a bad idea for a solution, but:
A) it's never tutorialized nor hinted at, as you only ever use switches to activate things
B) it's the only time this even happens in the game

and C) it's located outside the room.
 

I mean, I initially thought the puzzle was solved elsewhere, since that's what the games loves doing. It shows you a locked door, and you have to wander halfway across the map to find a way to open it. If they had put the texture inside the room or had had an earlier puzzle with the same but more obvious solution, then it'd have been understandable.

And I know I'm not the only person to have these issues. The comments on the video are littered with people saying how that part confused and frustrated them, so it's not just me being a dumb-dumb.

The monitors aren't tutorialized either, they're just kind of there sometimes. I actually pressed "Use" on just about any monitor I came across in the game, and only a handful of them are usable. This is poor game design. You gotta have a dedicated texture that makes its purpose clear and never strays away from it (like switch and door textures), otherwise it's confusing.

 

Pointing these things out doesn't mean the game is the worst ever, but it shows it's not without flaws.

Edited January 24 by GermanPeter

[Amaruψ]

3 minutes ago, GermanPeter said:

I don't remember monsters spawning in to interrupt my puzzles in Hexen, or at all really?

 

 

Have you ever played Hexen? That's what the Ettins do all the time throughout the game, far more prominently in the later hubs, especially one particular one where at least 6 or 7 spawn at the same time. And not only spawn once; constantly keep respawning also.

Edited January 24 by Amaruψ

[Antroid]

10 minutes ago, GermanPeter said:

But when I play Doom 64, I'm there for the great combat, not to wander aimlessly.

I'm always there for both. Either one without the other is dull to me.

[GermanPeter]

20 minutes ago, Amaruψ said:

 

Have you ever played Hexen? That's what the Ettins do all the time throughout the game, far more prominently in the later hubs, especially one particular one where at least 6 or 7 spawn at the same time. And not only spawn once; constantly keep respawning also.

I did, on the N64. It might have happened, I just don't really recall it being a thing, and I especially can't recall it getting in the way of any puzzles.

[Amaruψ]

Just now, GermanPeter said:

I did, on the N64. It might have happened, I just don't really recall it being a thing, and I especially can't recall it getting in the way of any puzzles.

 

https://doomwiki.org/wiki/Hexen_scripted_monster_spawning

[betabox]

Not just on a timed interval. Monsters spawn in literally around the puzzle solving in Hexen, whether it's from progress made on a puzzle or making a wrong choice in a few occasions. It's pretty much characteristic of the game.

[GermanPeter]

1 minute ago, betabox said:

Not just on a timed interval. Monsters spawn in literally around the puzzle solving in Hexen, whether it's from progress made on a puzzle or making a wrong choice in a few occasions. It's pretty much characteristic of the game.

Must have completely blocked that out, then. In any case, I don't recall it getting in the way of my puzzle-solving, and the combat is already not as intense as it is in Doom 64, so it wouldn't be an issue either way.

[OniriA]

I'm so sorry but I just have to do this.

 

Eins, zwei, drei!

 

Hier kommt die Sonneeee!!!

 

 

Ok, now feel free to continue the conversation.

[thiccyosh]

22 hours ago, OniriA said:

Ich will [...] Doom [...] und Sex[...]!

 

Ich auch. Wollen wir alle.