Doom 64 - An Overrated Masterpiece Of Coal

[Li'l devil]

Doom 64 was overpraised when it had a peak of popularity when the remaster was released a few years ago, but other than that, I see it as just a normal Doom game, with its positives and negatives.

 

What I really dislike though, is when Doom 64 fans call it the "real Doom 3", which is basically like indirectly throwing crap at Doom 3.

Edited January 23 by Li'l devil

[Hebonky]

The reason why they made levels Labyrinthine (in my opinion) is to emphasize the atmosphere!

[plums]

Here's a post I made about Doom 64 awhile ago:https://www.doomworld.com/forum/post/2093387

TL;DR no thanks. I don't get the appeal, and I really furrow my brown when I read people say things like "Doom 64 was the most advanced classic Doom game" or talk about how much of an improvement the sprites are over the original. But whatever floats your goat.

 

Watching this video I do have to concede that some of the visual design looks pretty good when the coloured lighting isn't too garish, especially in the later levels.

 

Interesting that the things you didn't like about Doom 64 the most are ones that didn't bother me so much (difficulty, cryptic progression). That said I can't imagine playing some of these maps on the N64 controller either.

Edited January 23 by plums

[jazzmaster9]

The dreaded "O" word once again haunting my dreams.

 

Doom 64 is probably the Classic doom game i replay the most, and definitely influenced a lot of my early (and even current) projects heavily.

 

Edit: "X Game is not as good actually" should be its own video genre due to how quickly it can get discussion and engagement. 

 

Edited January 23 by jazzmaster9

[Murdoch]

47 minutes ago, Li'l devil said:

What I really dislike though, is when Doom 64 fans call it the "real Doom 3", which is basically like indirectly throwing crap at Doom 3.

 

Oh, there's nothing indirect about it - that's very much what many of them are doing.

 

But funnily enough, even though I do not really like Doom 64 I actually agree with them but probably not for the same reasons - in terms of sequence of events, it is the real Doom 3. TNT and Plutonia are basically standalone mission packs that add nothing storywise (such as the original story is) to the timeline. You can not play them and not miss any important story beats. However, there is a clear(ish) and contiguous(ish) sequence of events from Doom to Doom 2 to Doom 64. Doom 64 does advance the plot in a significant way. And with the new games, BethIDsta has essentially declared the events of Doom 64 as canon.

 

Doom 3 I actually do enjoy in spite of some issues, but it never should have been called Doom 3 because it is clearly a reboot of the first game, in it's own universe, and is not directly canonical to Doom, Doom 2, Doom 64, Doom 2016 and Doom Eternal. It requires too many brain gymnastics to make it fit.

 

22 minutes ago, jazzmaster9 said:

The dreaded "O" word once again haunting my dreams.

 

 

Yeah I do not really like it and try to avoid using it. It essentially tells other people "your subjective opinion is wrong about this piece of art and I am right". Art can have objective parts to it. To give a very, very extreme example, no one's going to convincingly argue that say Dungeons of Dragons: Warriors of the Eternal Sun (an old Genesis/Mega Drive game I barely remember which had very primitive first person sections) looks objectively better than Doom Eternal. It simply doesn't. But your particular preferences for older style visuals and what you like for gameplay may make your prefer that game to DE.

Edited January 23 by Murdoch

[Rudolph]

I am not a fan of Hectic and most Fun Maps, but there are so many things to love about Doom 64 and it is the closest thing we got to a Classic Doom III.

[Li'l devil]

I think Doom as a whole is overrated actually! Everything popular is! The only things that aren't overrated are obscure things only I and my friends know about!!

[Astar]

Remember - fun is not allowed

[Craneo]

I SUMMON THEE, @Immorpher
 

[OniriA]

I don't think Doom 64 is overrated at all, it only catched more attention fairly recently at the start of the 2020's because of it being bundled with the release of Doom Eternal, and even more recently with the Nightdive release. I bet most people didn't even knew of Doom 64's existence before that. 

 

If anything, I would say that D64 is more of a 'culthit' within the Doom franchise.

For as many people that liked it theres equally as many who didn't. The same happened with Doom 3. The lasting impact of both has been on aesthetic and atmospheric side of things on Doom.

Edited January 23 by OniriA

[Enzo Carozza]

I had a much better experience with D64D2 than the original D64. :P

[plums]

10 minutes ago, Enzo Carozza said:

I had a much better experience with D64D2 than the original D64. :P

Yeah I thought D64D2 was really good.

[A339]

I really hate how all criticism of something these days is just calling it "overrated". This is a term that has become watered down from improper useage.

 

Doom 64 only recently got a wide release to modern audiences a few years ago with the PC port.

 

 

[Snaxalotl]

Doom 2 is overrated because the original levels didn't age well and have poor progression.

But on a serious note I feel like D64 and Heretic get rated based on their original levels from the 90s while Doom and Doom 2 get rated based on their modding/mapping potential which is really unfair in my opinion. Doom 2 has some awful level design in quite a few spots as well, it feels weird to me to write off a 90s game for having 90s progression when the main appeal of the original doom games are the user made content.

Edited January 23 by Snaxalotl

[roadworx]

as much as i like your content peter, this feels exceptionally clickbaity. like, come on now :/

[esselfortium]

It's not my favorite Doom (it has some fierce competition), but the atmosphere is to die for and it did a great job of spooking me as a kid.

[jazzmaster9]

31 minutes ago, roadworx said:

as much as i like your content peter, this feels exceptionally clickbaity. like, come on now :/

This is how I felt as well, Coupled that with how disjointed the mostly positive conclusion was to the said title.

Edited January 23 by jazzmaster9

[United VirusX]

Doom 64 was my first introduction to the series and while I love it the game has its issues for sure, so the criticisms presented in the video are valid, The controller wasn't too much of an issue for me personally since I've always played the game with an unusual method but let's face it, the N64 controller was so odd compared to what came before it that most people didn't really figure out a way they where comfortable holding it especially for shooters of that era. First time around was definitely confusing especially on the more cryptic maps like Breakdown, Dark Citadel with that death trap or Final Outpost with that really dumb yellow key puzzle. The issue I think that contributed to all that is how ambitious the dev's where with how macros worked in the game, The key puzzle in Unholy Temple is a good example while simple by today's standards it wasn't something you'd see in the original doom, Thankfully they didn't go crazy with it like how Hexen did.

Edited January 23 by United VirusX

[fruity lerlups]

Clickbait aside, peter ends this viceo with "its got better combat than any of the previous releases", and that to me kinda proves the whole point of the video wrong. I dont see anyone "overrating" the combat highly, and peter doesnt deny the game's atmosphere.

[Astar]

Oh Peter, I saw some of your early videos.

The stuff about sprites in other games was pretty cool.

 

And then you release a video where you throw rocks at Doom RPG, where you tell how, "Oooooooohh, the bad developers are so lazy, oooooooh, they used their own materials for a java game, what lazy-ass people they are! I can make sprites better!!"

 

And now you've decided to throw some shit on Doom 64: "Look! Doom64 is overrated, yeah-yeah! Come on, fan, take a look, you want to know why your favorite game is shit?"

 

What are you even trying to say with this phrase? That the fans of the Doom 64 are wrong and fun is not allowed? Thank you, I already hear this phrase from every corner on the modern Internet.

 

If you decide to follow the path of rage-baits, then too bad - we already have Midnight and The Beansprout for this

[Daytime Waitress]

3 hours ago, esselfortium said:

It's not my favorite Doom (it has some fierce competition), but the atmosphere is to die for and it did a great job of spooking me as a kid.

 

Does a damn good job of spooking me to this day. I was playing Rowdy Rudy and when I actually noticed the door opening sfx for the first time, I was legit on edge: bright, colourful, bombastic Rowdy Rudy, and all of a sudden I'm paranoid. Got under my skin after damn near 20 years of not hearing that sound.

[Somniac]

I love the music and sound design (the plasma gun sound <3), but the level design is occasionally frustrating. Overall I think its a worthy entry in the series, but definitely not for everyone. That said, I have to be in the right mood for Doom 64. Its not a "fun" game in the way that Doom/Doom II can be. When I'm awake at 5AM, strung out and feel like something's watching me, that's when Doom 64 comes out, and it hits home. I went through a really shitty living situation a couple of years ago that stretched my sanity pretty thin, and found myself in that space a lot, and Doom 64 was there to provide some catharsis. I'll always appreciate it in that regard.

[GermanPeter]

7 hours ago, jazzmaster9 said:

The dreaded "O" word once again haunting my dreams.

 

7 hours ago, Li'l devil said:

I think Doom as a whole is overrated actually! Everything popular is! The only things that aren't overrated are obscure things only I and my friends know about!!

 

5 hours ago, OniriA said:

I don't think Doom 64 is overrated at all, it only catched more attention fairly recently at the start of the 2020's because of it being bundled with the release of Doom Eternal, and even more recently with the Nightdive release. I bet most people didn't even knew of Doom 64's existence before that.

 

5 hours ago, A339 said:

I really hate how all criticism of something these days is just calling it "overrated". This is a term that has become watered down from improper useage.

 

Doom 64 only recently got a wide release to modern audiences a few years ago with the PC port.

 

The title is simply a jab at people that claim the game was underrated, as stated in the intro :P Like I said, I think it was fairly rated, since while I don't like using scores to rate games, I'd agree with it scoring between 7 and 8 out of 10. It's not fantastic, but not mediocre either. Pretty much on the same level as the originals. I just wouldn't call it an "underrated masterpiece".

 

1 hour ago, Astar said:

Oh Peter, I saw some of your early videos.

The stuff about sprites in other games was pretty cool.

 

And then you release a video where you throw rocks at Doom RPG, where you tell how, "Oooooooohh, the bad developers are so lazy, oooooooh, they used their own materials for a java game, what lazy-ass people they are! I can make sprites better!!"

 

And now you've decided to throw some shit on Doom 64: "Look! Doom64 is overrated, yeah-yeah! Come on, fan, take a look, you want to know why your favorite game is shit?"

 

What are you even trying to say with this phrase? That the fans of the Doom 64 are wrong and fun is not allowed? Thank you, I already hear this phrase from every corner on the modern Internet.

 

If you decide to follow the path of rage-baits, then too bad - we already have Midnight and The Beansprout for this

 

Did you... even watch the video? I quite literally praised Doom 64 at many moments and even said it was better than the first two in many ways. Even my final review of the game was: "It's not perfect, but still really good, despite the issues." I didn't even trash on the game, I just outlined many of the issues that I never see anyone really discuss, but which ruined the game for me in certain ways. I even said that a lot of the criticism of the game (like other games at the time looking and playing better) was unfounded and doesn't matter these days, and that the game's claustrophobic nature isn't bad, just different.

 

When did I say that Doom 64 fans are wrong or can't enjoy the game? Literally give me the timestamp. Tell me exactly when I said the game sucks and is a piece of garbage with no redeeming qualities. You can't, because as I stated in the very intro to the video, there has to be nuance with media discussion. And that's what I delivered on, outlining both the upsides AND the downsides. It was possibly the most neutral I've ever been in a review, in fact.

 

It also seems like you're taking my one-off quips pretty close to heart, which... can't be healthy. Just because I point out some sprites look bad doesn't mean I wish death on the developers lol

So if you take any mild criticism of someone else's games as a personal attack, then maybe cool it a little.

Edited January 23 by GermanPeter

[Astar]

2 minutes ago, GermanPeter said:

Did you... even watch the video?

Nope, because I don't want to give my 1 view to a video with a ragebait title

 

5 minutes ago, GermanPeter said:

So if you take any mild criticism of someone else's games as a personal attack, then maybe cool it a little.

If you criticize something from your personal point of view, then call a spade a spade, like: “Things that I personally don’t like about Doom 64”, and not “Doom 64 is overrated”

[GermanPeter]

11 minutes ago, Astar said:

Nope, because I don't want to give my 1 view to a video with a ragebait title

 

If you criticize something from your personal point of view, then call a spade a spade, like: “Things that I personally don’t like about Doom 64”, and not “Doom 64 is overrated”

Damn dude, should have watched at least the intro where I clarify why I named the video as such lol

Especially since nobody ever complains whenever someone portrayed their subjective but positive opinion about the game in an objective manner. But when you say it's not as good as you might think, ohhhh naughty!

Edited January 23 by GermanPeter

[Astar]

2 minutes ago, GermanPeter said:

Damn dude, should have watched at least the intro where I clarify why I named the video as such lol

 

Ok I gived it a shot and.... GODDAMIT NOW YOU HAVE MY VIEW. That was your plan, right??

 

But in all seriousness.

 

I understand that this may be your work and all, but... You INTENTIONALLY give the video a clickbait title "D64 is overrated (which is obviously isn't)", you deliberately made a clickbait preview, because, obviously, it’s easy to farm views from other people’s hatred.

 

And then, as if nothing had happened, in the video you say: “Well, yes, I may have  exaggerated a little bit”.

 

Quite an asshole move, if you ask me

 

[GermanPeter]

6 minutes ago, Astar said:

Ok I gived it a shot and.... GODDAMIT NOW YOU HAVE MY VIEW. That was your plan, right??

 

But in all seriousness.

 

I understand that this may be your work and all, but... You INTENTIONALLY give the video a clickbait title "D64 is overrated (which is obviously isn't)", you deliberately made a clickbait preview, because, obviously, it’s easy to farm views from other people’s hatred.

 

And then, as if nothing had happened, in the video you say: “Well, yes, I may have  exaggerated a little bit”.

 

Quite an asshole move, if you ask me

 

I named the video the same way as all the other Youtubers who call it an "underrated masterpiece" and praise the game to hell and back, only I did the opposite. Both types of title are misleading, though at least I clarified that mine was and then went on to review the game in a neutral fashion, weighing out both the pros and cons.

 

Like I said before, nobody ever cares when someone deems a game perfect and the best ever and oh how underrated it is, even when the game in question has obvious flaws. But if someone does the opposite, it's a crime. Why? At the end of the day, you should want an accurate review, not just one that reaffirms an opinion you already had. So that was the whole point of the title and thumbnail.

 

Yes, I was a bit cheeky about it, but you also get a fair assessment of the game right afterwards, and I even begin with the positives. The title was clickbait, but I wasn't being completely biased on my review.

[Astar]

5 minutes ago, GermanPeter said:

I named the video the same way as all the other Youtubers who call it an "underrated masterpiece" and praise the game to hell and back, only I did the opposite. Both types of title are misleading, though at least I clarified that mine was and then went on to review the game in a neutral fashion, weighing out both the pros and cons.

 

Like I said before, nobody ever cares when someone deems a game perfect and the best ever and oh how underrated it is, even when the game in question has obvious flaws. But if someone does the opposite, it's a crime. Why? At the end of the day, you should want an accurate review, not just one that reaffirms an opinion you already had. So that was the whole point of the title and thumbnail.

 

Yes, I was a bit cheeky about it, but you also get a fair assessment of the game right afterwards, and I even begin with the positives. The title was clickbait, but I wasn't being completely biased on my review.

Okay, I understand your position. I don't approve it, but I understand. And I respect you for your honesty.

 

And no-no-no, expressing your opinion is not a crime. But to make ragebait titles - yes :p

 

Don't get me wrong - I'm just a user who is fed up with the phrases like "This sucks! That sucks!" and so on...

 

If some of my words might sound harsh, then I'm sorry.

[Antroid]

25 minutes ago, GermanPeter said:

Like I said before, nobody ever cares when someone deems a game perfect and the best ever and oh how underrated it is, even when the game in question has obvious flaws. But if someone does the opposite, it's a crime. Why?

Might just be because calling things overrated is much more obnoxious than calling them underrated. I'd much rather see praise that I disagree with than nitpicking I disagree with. One comes off as the author wanting to bring attention to something they think deserves it, and the other comes off as the author claiming to have superior taste to "the masses" and explaining why something you like actually sucks. Ragebait is a thing, but I don't think there is a term for praisebait?

 

Anyway, I agree with Astar about not giving a click to something with a ragebait title and thumbnail (the fact that you were just being cheeky does not make it not annoying). So I can only comment on something that was brought up in the thread: I think labirynthine progression is an absolute plus, because normally if there are no snags while beating a level and it's all smooth, it just as smoothly slides out of my memory. Getting lost means you are actually forced to engage with the level and makes it more immersive and memorable. Apart from that one weird yellow key thing I don't really remember getting lost in Doom 64, though.

[jazzmaster9]

The popular game is bad actually and people are sheep have been a bit rampant lately on Youtube and Twitter, the one that happened recently with an infamous Doom Eternal tweet comes to mind. So i get that people would just be sick of Rage Bait whether the intention was out of spite or not.

 

Edited January 23 by jazzmaster9